True or not?

tokens have a purpose though

Like you can have BUS tokens for a city for example. Trade in your ETH/BTC/LTC/USD for tokens like in real life.

You can say the same in real life there are lot of mini tokens/coupons that are tradable for fiat or services

You can say the same fiat boyo valuations are never static most of the time

>>because Crypto’s value is based on public trust
lol

not if a service like bitpay turns it into fiat instantly (they do) via an exchange

if there were no fiat US dollar... what would be the value of bitcoin?

really makes you think

Deflationary currencies (currency that rise in value) always fail.
It's simple to understand why, the same thing happened in the Netherlands during the 1950-1960's.

Back then the Gulden was made from silver. People saw that the value of silver rose thus they choose to hold onto the coins.
Why would you buy something now, if you wait and sell the coin for it's silver you'd be able to purchase more things.

Consuming started slowing down and thus the economy.

---

That's one of the reasons why it is more preferable to have a inflationary currency, because holding on to the coin itself will make you lose purchasing power therefore you'll have an incentive to consume and stimulate/grow the economy.

The only reason why the USD is stable is that the US economy is supporting it while ETH is only supported by $100,000,000,000 USD.

...

The fud in this thread is hilarious
Impossible to counterfeit established coins.
Which is why the market would naturally move towards very few coins. ChainLink, Bazinga and Veeky Forums coin will never be accepted, but the best projects will be. After awhile you won't be able to "make" better coins that can penetrate the market because unless you have a differentiating factor with your coin, no one will care
Name calling instead of providing new insight
Read above
This is the only legitimate argument here, but I'm not sure if a deflationary decentralized, deflationary monetary system living alongside a centralized, inflationary monetary system is so unreasonable

Just because things were one way in the past, doesn't mean they will be that way in the future guys

Ah, so the solution is inflation. But not everybody gets the inflation money, m mm no no no! Then inflation wouldn't have any effect, you see! It goes to the bankers so that they get to become richer, smart right? This is good for us, we get to become poorer at the expense of bankers, that will keep the economy going real good, yes!

>I'm not sure if a deflationary decentralized, deflationary monetary system living alongside a centralized, inflationary monetary system is so unreasonable

They're contradictory. The gov causes inflation so you would spend your money, but if cryto exist, you'll just put your money in cryto and wait for the value to rise. Cryto goes against gov monetary policy so the gov have an incentive to kill it.

>Just because things were one way in the past, doesn't mean they will be that way in the future guys

I don't necessarily disagree with this.
But our monetary system is a culmination of the past, we didn't end up with an inflationary system by accident.

Using a deflationary model has it limits which is perfectly reasonable in a mercantilist economic society but mercantilism has been disproven so I don't understand why people want to return to it.

The US dollar has value because it is backed by the US government.
The US government is ran by people.

Cryptocurrency has value because it is backed by a system that creates a trustless value exchange.
This system was created by groups of people.

Just because this concept hasn't been around long, doesn't mean it won't have a place in the future.

This is an extremely iq89 /pol/-tier comment.

Thanks again Paul Krugman, you saved us from making our own decisions once again

I agree tho this current system leads to excess waste and excess production of useless goods. How it is good? Its a perfect example of a bubble

Not

>But our monetary system is a culmination of the past, we didn't end up with an inflationary system by accident.
>Using a deflationary model has it limits which is perfectly reasonable in a mercantilist economic society but mercantilism has been disproven so I don't understand why people want to return to it.
On a serious note, has there ever been any conclusive proof that deflationary currency won't ever work? Is the current system the way it is because of superiority or greed?

Thanks. It doesn't change the fact that inflation by definition is some entity stealing value from you. You think not having that makes a system unsustainable? Why would incentivizing smart spending and investing mean doom to our society? How is it worse than overconsuming and stealing from the future?

Well, technically, we are living in this system right now. I'm not so sure it is unreasonable to think that these two systems can continue to live alongside each other, both with their own pros and cons:

Gov currency: Stable inflation
Crypto: Less stable deflation

Fair enough, I'm no expert and I try to stay open minded about these things. Would it be so unreasonable to imagine that these things might follow a similar behavior in valuation as gold does?

I guess my thought is that in the past these deflationary systems failed, but it was because it was ONLY deflationary. What if these two systems lived side by side like how they are right now? What would happen in the long run if majority of governments don't try to drive it into the ground?

I don't think the gold standard in the US failed before it was removed

>excess production

The problem you state here is real, but here economics intertwines with ideology.

excess production or surplus leads to lower prices this higher purchasing power. On the other hand it leads to a throw-it-away society. (I rarely repare furniture, I just go to IKEA and buy it new because it is so cheap).

If you were to make a SWOT analysis, the threat would indeed be: excess waste

yet if you don't have excess production, prices will rise, leading to lower purchasing power.
But you won't waste things no more. And you value goods more because they are expensive.

So here it becomes more a battle of ideology, what is your idea of how a society and an economy should look?

>On a serious note, has there ever been any conclusive proof that deflationary currency won't ever work?

I provided one example using the Dutch Gulden back in the 50-60's. There are more examples but the underlying problem is always the same

It failed to provide economists with a living; they had to get proper jobs

>Jews have always been hated by muslims and Christians for their usury/loan interest schemes
>/pol/ hates "jewish banking system" based on extracting money with usury
>fixed loan interest payments become less lucrative for bankers when moderate inflation occurs
>oddly /pol/ brainlets love deflationary currencies that literally line the pockets of Rothschild banking elites

Do you even able to think user? Do you even know why you believe what you believe?

I agree with everything that you pointed out being wrong with bitcoin I usually am on the same boat as you. Tho, as the other user pointed out, inflation inevitably leads to "stealing" into the hands of jeff bezos or whoever.

I dont know what the solution is but theoretically speaking, extrapolating from every science field ever, I think we are ready for a backshlash, ie turning back into deflationary monetary system

>What would happen in the long run if majority of governments don't try to drive it into the ground?

I'm not going to pretend I'm able to predict what will happen, but if you have a (deflationary) currency and people don't actually use this currency to buy things.
Then it will just fail by itself, because why have a currency no one actually uses.

true but

>the only thing stopping crypto from killing centralized currency is the fact that major retailers like amazon, Walmart and target have yet to allow it to be used a means of purchase.
No. Companies do what customer wants. If more and more customer want to buy with crypto then A) New internet shops open where ppl can buy (f.e. asia shops where US and EU ppl start buying) and/or B) Amazon makes pressure to goverment or moves to another country where crypto is allower

Crypto will win. It is just a matter of time.

reminder that inflation is a tax on dumb people. The only people who hate it are retards that don't know how to invest. Even the easiest investment in the world is enough for you to beat inflation, if you put your money under the mattress and expect them to grow in value without doing anything you are fucking retarded and deserve to lose the value of your money and be poor forever

Inflation could be an inherent property of the system, like how entropy is an inherent property of dynamic change in the universe.

In fact one could probably argue that inflation is a special case of entropy, a property that 'supervenes' from the microphysical properties of the universe to the macroeconomic properties of our reality.

I didn't find anything about it. We have the US gold standard as a counter-example too. I don't think the general populace of today cares enough about small deflation to stop them from using their money.

>Do you even able to think user

I would think that over time that they would have purchasing power. There is incentive for businesses to start accepting them. If businesses start accepting Nano, both the business and purchaser wins by removing fees from the transaction altogether. If the merchant or consumer is concerned about value fluctuations, I'm sure in the future there will be options to convert in to and out of fiat behind the scenes.

Reminds me. I've got weed in the closet.

this is true to be honest. Inflation itself is a incentive to invest.
If you actually use your money, inflation is easy to beat.

>So here it becomes more a battle of ideology, what is your idea of how a society and an economy should look?
No contest really. Avoiding overconsumption keeps our world going for longer.

You do make some solid points though

Inflation still would have to go into the pockets of the few, if everybody gets an equal share of it it will do nothing.

Ha
>0488
Off by one

>this is true to be honest. Inflation itself is a incentive to invest.
There's nothing preventing investing in a deflationary system. The same incentives are there. You'll just have to make actually smart investments and not just invest in anything

>inflation is easy to beat
>just don't include cost of housing
>or medical expenses
>or student debt
>because who needs a roof over their head has an accident or will want a job, eh

Inflation goes into the pockets of the few due to the fed dispersing money to federal reserve banks who then largely sit on it.

An inflationary decentralized cryptocurrency could actually avoid this.

why would someone want to invest if his money would go up in price and the money itself act as an investment? deflation encourages people hoarding money and not investing. currency is supposed to be a store of value not an investment

Yes and yes. I think XLM gives a larger relative inflation gains to biggest holders so there's one that's trying.

Let's say +1% yearly deflation vs +5% expected investment gains. Anybody who wants to make some extra money could still take the risk and profit.

>just don't include cost of housing

Well first off, this greatly depends on where you're looking to buy. In my opinion the USA have a affordable housing market compared to Belgium or the Netherlands.
.
> Medical expenses rose in the US due several factors often others than inflation.
> student debt, this is one you. Follow a vocational education or pick a study that is actually able to pay of your debts.

inflation is easy to beat, making bad decissions is on yourself

replace crypto with gold and then ask yourself why everyone is not hoarding gold right now

Maybe it has something to do with gold being largely unusable as a currency

I've learned not to respond to retards raging about inflation; You should do the same

Yes, why WOULD Christopher Columbus invest in an trip to the new world when he could just have stayed at home and waited for his gold florins to appreciate?

>having an accident or wanting a job is a bad decision
The world of economists is burning, and the view is glorious

>Yes, why WOULD Christopher Columbus invest in an trip to the new world when he could just have stayed at home and waited for his gold florins to appreciate?
kek

This.
...if gold were as easy and fun to trade on exchanges as Bitcoin, and somehow guaranteed the kind of trustless ownership that Bitcoin has (this is impossible for gold though), then we would trade and hoard gold.

>Yes, why WOULD Christopher Columbus invest in an trip to the new world when he could just have stayed at home and waited for his gold florins to appreciate?

Is he being serious?

Krugman is low iq retard btw

Provide an actual argument as to how it's not an appropriate argument for risk-taking being able to exist even if your cash didn't slowly flow into the pockets of a few select entities every second.

Giving this Colombus example?

> Colombus went looking for a new traderoute (to India) because the Ottomans blocked them from going there.
> Kings and Dukes often created inflation (using less gold for creating a florin). So there was inflation. Not to forget the inflation shocks when countries discovered new goldmines or techniques which pumped up the gold supply

In the end Colombus had more to do with geopolitical tensions than actual investing for the sake of investing.

you talk about risk but when we say invest it doesn't mean that is risky investment. when you put the money in your bank and they give you 2% interest thats actually investing in a bank bond, the only way you can lose your money is the bank going bankrupt which is extremely rare. So tell me, if even the easiest investment in the world can beat the inflation, why would anyone care about inflation?

Contrast that chart with yearly profits made by big banks. It's sad to see so many people in cryptocurrency who only see it as a way to 10x instead of as a chance to tank the banks. It may happen someday but for now there are too many complacent cowards in the world who only care about status and prestige.

He probably doesn't know how interests and inflation are co-related

You know your history, nice. Still does function as an analogy about how people who wanna make it are willing to take risks and not just sit on their hands even though they could. Should go for investing too, even if the deflation boogeyman exists. You're not gonna make huge gains from deflation alone unless something goes wrong so either you invest or keep working.
>Kings and Dukes often created inflation (using less gold for creating a florin)
That certainly did make them richer btw. Good for the economy? Necessary?

Bonds often times don't even beat inflation. That's because it's just the same money going around in a circle with somebody grabbing a slice of it every turn.

Higher rates, lower inflation

the decentralized forex market is the best indicator to see the price of a currency not inflation. if USA starts printing money uncontrollably that would crash the USD price in forex and foreign investors would flood the market for a buyout. In the end, if your country has more exports potential then having a currency that drops in value would be beneficial

Can't disagree with those points

>That certainly did make them richer btw. Good for the economy? Necessary?
Please start reading this, you're uneducated about the how's and why's about inflation:
core-econ.org/the-economy/book/text/0-3-contents.html

> Bonds often times don't even beat inflation. That's because it's just the same money going around in a circle with somebody grabbing a slice of it every turn.

Interest rates on saving accounts usually are higher or equal to the inflation rate. By just putting your money on there you can beat or atleast keep up with inflation without doing anything.