Bitcoin is a fraud. Let me explain why: Bitcoin is mined using processing power. Essentially, one mines bitcoins by wasting energy to break a crypto. The bitcoin is a token proving you've broken the crypto. It's a receipt for spent energy. One could say gold is also a receipt for the energy it took to mine the gold. But in the case of bitcoin, you have no lasting resource as a result of the energy expenditure. This is the difference when compared to gold. In that case, you have something tangible to show and/or trade.
>Bitcoin is not fiat Yes it is. If the bitcoin somehow 'stored' energy it wouldn't be. But right now, it's just a receipt for wasted energy. And to trade with someone, you have to waste even more energy. You can not 'use' the energy invested in making a bitcoin at any later date.
Bitcoin transactions claim more and more energy globally. This is not in any way sustainable. This power is not stored or retained. At this moment, bitcoin consumes more energy than Denmark. It will not be legal for long. For good reasons. It's an unnecessary drain, with no tangible benefits. Each transaction is more expensive than the last, and the system consumes more and more energy.
It's the chess board with multiplying rice grains, only instead of rice it's energy you waste.
>I'm rich you nocoiner nobrainer Yeah. Better cash in soon. You might make a profit. But long term, this will not hold. Bitcoin will fail, and it will fail spectacularly and soon. The alternative is to have it consume a bigger and bigger part of global energy supplies. The bitcoin system already consumes more energy than some countries, and if you can't see how that will not hold, even in a year or two, then you're a complete fucking moron.
>Illegalising it will somehow raise its value! lol no. A black market currency needs to be flexible, intrinsically valuable and easy to handle. Receipts for huge amounts of wasted energy do not conform to these criteria.
Profit now and gtfo, bitcoin will die.
yes the one that got it right was that dog coin
Same principle, only earlier in the process. Blockchain transactions are exponentially expensive in energy.
All of these idiot cryptocurrencies are tulips.
fucking retard. bitcoin is the worst coin out there. its gonna fall because its a dinosaur in terms of tech. other coins already use methods that dont require mining fucking idiot. go suck on ahmeds cock
Bitcoin has always seemed self defeating to me.
>mine bitcoin to make bitcoin >mining consists of doing all the calculations for the transactions that make bitcoin function >mining is designed to become more and more difficult and will pay less and less over time
Doesn't that only guarantee that eventually mining will fade away and the ability of bitcoin to function will fade away as well?
Then please inform me: When a transaction is made, do all nodes need to update blockchain?
If so, you have exponential increase of energy cost for the system with number of transactions and number of nodes.
Same problem. Maybe milder, because you do away with mining. But the end effect is the same. It will only take slightly longer.
It's fiat but it's like fiat 2.0, it's better in every single way than true fiat currencies. People around the world are dumb enough to use government controlled fiat that is backed by nothing, less secure, and fucking infinite!!! The US dollar is gone, it inflates 3% each years it's value dropped 10% in one year and they haven't even paid back the 20 trillion yet lmfao.
Think of all the energy you wasted writing this post.
Get ready for the coinlets to be upset that their plans of retiring early are diminishing. Get back to making my coffee now you unskilled cucks
Bitcoin is also backed by nothing, but costs more energy to make.
I'm not saying you should invest in fiat dollars instead. I'm saying get something with intrinsic value. Like gold, water, land or gas.
You can do those too but governments manipulate, regulate, and tax the shit out of them. Crypto is virtually untouchable even though right now the US is taxing it as if it were a stock which is fucking ridiculous, they mine as well throw my Runescape gold on my taxes too. They can try to tax at it all the want, the reason bitcoin took off in the first place was through money laundering and drug trades there is no way to stop it.
not in trustless systems and PoS
The funny part is, do you really think these governments would be trying to control crypto by taxing them if they didn't feel like they were a threat? They are seriously shaking in the boots threatening people to throw them in jail over trading literal digital fucking numbers.
>Boomer-ridden dinosaur governments actually understand what a cryptocurrency is and what to do with it. I don't see this as substantial evidence that cryptos are a threat.
Interesting. I will have to read up more on this. Although it seems the benefit of bitcoin in the first place was trust, so I'm currently perplexed.
Bitcoin is old tech, anyone who used it in 2012 can tell you how revolutionary it was at the time. Nowadays there are many more cryptocurrencies with much better technology designed to feasibly go against the MasterCard/Visa market.
Anyone who bought into BTC in 2017 bought a ticket to a train that already left the station.
trustless systems meaning that users who hold the coins vote to decide if a transaction is valid. those who try to cheat the system ie. double spending get their coins deleted.
No shit sherlock. Nobody believes in BTC as a currency. Everyone wants to just catch on the free ride up with price manipulators.
Thanks just bought 100k
Centralisation of credit card transactions means only a few bank systems have to trust the transactions. Probably, a visa transaction costs about as much energy as a Veeky Forums post.
> Not saying fiat currencies are better, btw
Interesting. I will read up on this.
Buttcoin is about to cross that threshold were it consumes more energy than all the world's nuclear devices combined. What's worse is this incredible waste will have such a detrimental corrosion on the environment that it will be even more destructive than the nuclear shock waves required to mine just one coin. And multiply this disastrous energy force by 41 million coins and your in for an apocalyptic catastrophe worse than the sun exploding. I haven't even begun to talk about the radiation. Face it, we're all doomed.
Visa transactions cost money though to the seller
>Nowadays there are many more cryptocurrencies with much better technology designed to feasibly go against the MasterCard/Visa market.
Care to name a few? I'm not doubting just curious
Monero (which is also a privacy coin) Stellar Lumens IOTA RaiBlocks/Nano Xtrabytes
I dont think energy is relevant to Buttcoin's value, its merely a consequence due to its nature, the reason it took off is because stupid dudebro normies were convinced to give up their real shekels for a string of characters by clever scammers saying it would go up eternally. It was literally memed from thin air into reaching 15k USD at one point
>Doesn't that only guarantee that eventually mining will fade away and the ability of bitcoin to function will fade away as well?
The final bitcoin will be mined in 2140. Before that however, you should consider the Satoshi unit. It is a one hundred millionth of a single bitcoin (0.00000001 BTC). Right now as of this post ONE USD ($1.00) is (0.00012000 BTC) or TWELVE THOUSAND Satoshis.
As the market cap goes up, people will be trading in satoshi units. We might one day say $1 is 12 satoshis. Or 1$ is 1200000 satoshis Who knows?
Either way your question isn't a big deal when you consider Satoshi units.
Crypto currencies are all shit because they are not a practical means of conducting trade. Sure you see bullshit on the news about some faggot that bought a house using bitcoin but that is an absolute rarity. Bitcoin is fucking useless unless you want to buy kiddie porn or trade with other coinlets. When the global grid falls, and it will one day, coinlets will be left with fuck all, while those of us that invest in tangible assets will be chukling to ourseles about the hipster douchebags that just lost everything.
>d-dude it's going to hit 100k any day now! John McAfee said so!
I hope every last one of you retards ends up bankrupt, which yous will because as soon as you start panic selling do you know what happens?
Any idiot can see bitcoin is not designed to buy anyone’s coffee, it’s designed to eventually behave like gold but there’s no gold. It’s all big fish now but don’t worry there will be pleb digital currencies that can be lended into existence just like the real pleb currencies
You’re trash OP.
>banning crypto mining >when they can‘t even ban illegal weedfarms, or childporn, or drugs, or murder
Toppest of keks
> better than fiat > deflationary asset > isn’t even backed up by the U.S. nuke arsenal
It’s amazing how retarded you are.
all of crypto currencies have no leg to stand on ...
> you die
> lose wallet backup/info
> you die > value increases
wait for hacks to steal money and freeze it
While offering chargebacks and interest-free credit for up to a month.
None of the things you listed are any kind of threat to tptb, anything that challenges there banking franchise is. You think you are fighting some of revolution with digital bits on.a.computer, good luck you Wil get fucked one day.
>How do most of the user posts in this thread have no IDs?
Where was this thread moved from?
Pay attention there is no IDs in the first half of the thread.
IOTA is a scam, centrally controlled coin, no proof it will ever work, also wastes energy. XRB also wastes energy, but limited amount.
Stellar, Ada Byteball Only these do not consume energy for security.
NIce, surely this will be the end of bitcoin now that someone as intelligent as OP has called it out
You still can‘t forbid mining crypto, no matter how hard they try they can‘t ban it. Its impossible to control decentralized crypto.
most likely /pol/, only a retarded boomer like the type that browses /pol/ wouldn't understand decentralized currency
/g/ was mining bitcoin in 2010, the true early adopters
It was moved from /g/ probably due to no id
I have a hard time understanding the decentralization argument when it was the US gov that created the internet and all coins are transacted on internet. Not techy and brainlet so please no bully. A truly decentralized economy.would.be completely self reliant and able to maintain itself.away from the system, crypto only provide the illusion of decentralization. Plus it is not about banning crypto it is about regulating it to death and forbidding merchants from accepting it.
Then some other country won‘t ban it and make so much fucking money that it becomes the new switzerland. Meanwhile US collapses while getting raped by chinks who can produce everything even cheaper thanks to smart contracts and crypto.
user, you can totally set up your own blockchain on your local line and send Fagcoins between your battle station and your mom’s iPhone. That’s about as much of a victory for crypto as the iceberg had been for the Titanic. If you have no easy exit into the main economy, it’s fucking useless.
There will always be ways
bitcoin is here to stay, what if vitalink quits and eth is abandoned? what if IBM stops making xlm? what if Las Vegas stops making FUN? what if Walton stops coding Waltonchain? these projects die. bitcoin will stay because it has no creator. Yu satoshi... you are satoshi. I am satoshi. we are all satoshi
Did you just find the internet or are you just retarded?
>other country won‘t ban it and make so much fucking money the new switzerland.
Right then in no time they will be the next Iraq and Libya.
If the usd crashes who is going to buy all that cheap shit china is making? China goes down a lot hard then USA if USA goes down.
>not in trustless systems and PoS
Or on the lightning network. Both BTC and ETH's scaling solutions improve scaling and efficiency.
>Although it seems the benefit of bitcoin in the first place was trust
The entire point of Bitcoin is make trust irrelevant in the financial system. The cost of that is PoW.
List 5 coins better than btc, and i dont just mean faster cheaper transactions, but also the most important part - security and decentralization (also github Activity etc....)
Ways to keep the price stagnated after it drop into the fucking abyss. If you don’t continue getting new suckers into this system, you may as well just go back to fiat. Unless you are some kind of weirdo who gives a shit about muh bankless transactions. I couldn’t care less.
Monero is a great coin but the transactions are slow and expensive - they are releasing bulletproofs in September which will make txs 80% smaller though Stellar - not decentralized, not permissionless, not a blockchain IOTA - centralized piece of shit (coordinator) Nano - possible candidate....still has a long way to ho before we can say It is battle-tested Xtrabytes - dont know anything about it
Cents, Euro cents, Yen, Sterlings and Swiss francs. Much much better than any of the shit in this thread.
hilarious how you retards don't even understand how bitcoin works, but take to time to post some long ass FUD no one is going to read. There is no energy requirement for bitcoin. anyone who thinks bitcoin energy usage is non "sustainable" needs to do 5 minutes of research into how bitcoin actually works.
The fact that so many here don't even understand the basics of the technology makes it obvious why there is so many panic sellers anytime it goes down like 50%. Holy shit poor people are too stupid. lmao. Its obvious bitcoin will be $1mil in only a few years which is why you are seeing institutional money pour in over the past 6 months.
bitcoin is a prototype. how can it be a fraud?
>Bitcoin is old tech, anyone who used it in 2012 can tell you how revolutionary it was at the time
Bitcoin is a philosophy for a trustless monetary system. There are only 2 new technologies in crypto, BTC and ETH. Everything else is derivative.
To say it is old tech, is telling the world you have no concept of economics, technological innovation, or forethought. All crypto tech is new. Modest changes to existing tech don't nullify existing tech with large development teams, many users, and a developed infrastructure.
Both ETH and BTC are working on much bigger solutions than the supposed "new tech".
The only coin out there that can even be considered for doing something interesting is XLM, but only because it adheres to the philosophical tenets of Bitcoin by valuing decentralization.
Any centralized crypto system is worthless because we can do that without a blockchain.
>Buttcoin is about to cross that threshold were it consumes more energy than all the world's nuclear devices combined.
Link to the academic research on this. I plan on waiting forever...
>hasn’t even tripled in 15 years >somehow a big deal
>Bitcoin is fucking useless unless you want to buy kiddie porn or trade with other coinlets.
So is it useless or not? Apparently it's been used. Brainlets think an economic system can be organically developed in 9 years.
i dont know what the agendas of these late adopters are. btc is never going to crash low enough to allow them to make the kind of massive profits us early adopters were smart enough to get in on. and if it does crash down to nothing, it won't be going back up again, so you can forget about that, and in the meantime we will have cashed out tens of millions and not give a shit anymore.
whichever way you look at it, and whatever bitcoin does, early adopters always win, and you late adopters always lose. so why waste your time crying about it op?
Pretty good explanation, user. It's hard to believe that the greenies haven't made a bigger stink over this yet. I think the general political rule that way is that they won't until they sense they can make money by shaking someone down over it. So far, they can't figure out who or how, so they have remained silent.
>You can not 'use' the energy invested in making a bitcoin at any later date.
Here's where your entire argument falls apart, and the differences between gold and Bitcoin start to fade a bit: you actually can.
>Mine btc for x dollars >it has a market value of x >sell it for money >buy more computers
this is what gold companies do. They sell their resource and reinvest. You also imply that gold has inherent value, but Bitcoin does not. Bitcoin is a system of immutable liquid value ownership. You have to keep gold in a safe, but with blockchain your value is always stored in a cloud which as long as the coins have value is recognized by interested buyers. Which, if you have been keeping track, can be anywhere in the world, and soon will be as efficient as using a centralized ledger with a bank, which gold will never be, unless you use blockchain and peg ounces of gold in a reserve 1:1 with gold, which is another functional use for the distributed trustless system technology bitcoin presented with blockchain. Sure it might crash, but the gold market is already inflated by speculation as well, as much of the functional purpose of gold is in very small amounts in (go figure) computing. Basically, if gold can be worth a lot cause people think it's valuable and have useful functions, Bitcoin (and it's derivatives) can be worth a lot because people think it's valuable and has useful functions (wiring international money for example)
>peg ounces of gold in a reserve 1:1 with gold
Oops I mean some sort of coin or token. Also yes I know my grammar in that sentence is awful, sue me.
dude you're a moron, there will always be an increasing national debt. It's part of the design of our whole financial system.
If money is printed and inflates, the debt goes up. It's never going to be expected to be paid back because it's literally fucking impossible. Politicians just know people don't understand this shit so they sling around stuff about the debt to try to get people to buy into their policies.
and printing money and causing slight inflation isn't bad. It stimulates the economy because people have to keep working and invest or their money they earned yesterday becomes less and less valuable.
The problem is the printed money is given to the fed government and then they get to selectively distribute it to whoever they choose. This allowed them to set up a corrupt as fuck setup where ((they)) accumulate all the money and hold all the right positions of power
Decent argument however there is a finite amount of gold, and we will never be able to create any true scarcity unlike bitcoins illusory scarcity.
Anyone can create a new digital currency, and at some point I expect gov coin to come out and be the one that every one uses (mostly by force and coercion).
load of shit op, check how much energy is needed when extracting, smelting, transporting, securing gold. BTC way of mining will improve, the "wasted" heat energy can be used..we have to work on it, or are you a lazy FUDing bitch who likes the things the way they are.. this is not pretty to watch but as always BTC will recover, tech didnt do anything wrong.. people are retarded and greedy. In time those will filter out..
Exact same system works with a deflationary currency and negative interest rates on debt. Deflation / inflation has nothing to do with debt, its all about taxation. With a deflationary currency, just by maintaining your wealth, you have taxable income according to the government. A small amount of inflation greatly increasing tax revenue for the government.
thanks just bought 100k Butt twerk coins
>dey will jus bomb it!!! >this is what retards actually believe
Murricans would never dare to nuke china or SK aka the new switzerlands. >If the usd crashes who is going to buy all that cheap shit china is making? It won‘t be a total collapse, your dollar is just less worth and chinese will buy every industry because they make 30% more gains with every trade than you, clinging to the dollar is like clinging to trains when planes became popular.
You will just slowly fade away from the market, won‘t go with a bang.
Every other country will flourish because of crypto. Meanwhile US cucks will pay 30/40% more on everything while not being able to be a global player in trade anymore.
Governents would probably just adopt existing currency and offer some kind of benefits or something to encourage people to use it. Making and entirely new system and making people use it would be a huge pain in the ass and the result would be exactly the same as adopting an already existing currency.
>forbidding merchants from accepting it Merchants don't have to accept it directly. There will always be people willing to exchange that shit for local currencies.
compare the OP's measured and calm tone with your raging, insult based, juvenile tripe.
separating the boys from the men.
gold is shit. it can be used for electrical shit but other than that the majority of its value comes from people's perception that gold is highly valuable because it is desirable for being aesthetically pleasing combined with it being somewhat scarce and having had a history of being used itself as a form of currency.
tldr: the value of gold is literally mental gymnastics combined with aesthetics
marketing is everything in this world. All you have to do is shill the masses into thinking "this is the way it is"
>what is difficulty adjustment, the thread
>dey will jus bomb it!!!
JFC man bomb is a metaphor for regulation, or whatever tools they use to neuter cryptos threat aka creation of .gov coin. These people have shown they will destroy whole countries to defend there shekel franchise and you think they will let internet maths bring them down?
.Gov was printing billions a day during qe, setting up there own block chain would be a drop in the bucket, they don't need mass adaptation, they can force people to use there cyrpto through regulation and taxation.
Gold is also backed by nothing it's one of the most useless metals. >bitcoin is useless at least you can make smart contracts with btc and send files using blockchan
What can you do with gold, show it and transport it back and forth lol?
They can't regulate shit, any regulation that hurts the decentralization aspect makes the whole country lose money long term as you will not be able to compete with countrys who are more invested into crypto. its literally impossible to stop or regulate crypto.
I love you naivlets, but wrong >muh decentralized satoshi, early early adopeters (dealers, human traffickers, cartels), early adopters (investment crisis, 'where can I put all that cheap QE money') >effective costs absurdly more than any bank transfer and takes longer, it's a meme, nobody uses it to take things from exchange to exchange
How much energy do fucking banks use globally? Lick my choad (my cock is thicker than it is long)
I always find it hilarious how massively over built, luxurious, and obnoxious banks are. Its like a big fuck you every time you walk into one.
Banks are not just a payment system, retard.
wouldn't that be ripe for manipulation though? Seems like a clusterfuck waiting to happen.
Technically fiat money is already digital currency as it is mostly digital instead of in physical notes and coins. The difference between digital fiat and crypto is decentralisation.
>The final bitcoin will be mined in 2140 So who pays the 'miners' for processing transactions after that? Wouldn't the fees have to increase greatly to compensate them for the lost reward coins?
>check how much energy is needed Why don't you? You're the one trying to make that point.
But there is a non-zero floor to gold's price. If it were much lower in price, it might have many more real world uses. Also, don't discount the jewelery aspect. Mankind has valued it as such for thousands of years. That's about as good of a track record as you can get in terms of value.
>assumes that energy spent mining bitcoin is "wasted" energy, thus implying that you understand that that energy was in fact definitely worth something and that the bitcoin demanded it in order to be mined now you must understand that the only way this process can be simplified and cost less energy is through technological innovation, which is highly demanding and lucrative campaign >doesn't get that the bitcoin you receive from mining literally exists wherever mining exists—i.e. all over planet earth, essentially making it so that the resource that you receive is backed by the security of the entire planet and not just of one government or coalition if you held bitcoin before the segwit hard fork, the only thing you had to fear was global government and alien domination of the planet when you mine bitcoin, you are playing satoshi's game fortunately, satoshi's game is one of prosperity, that demands innovation above all else it is a currency that runs on capitalism, and rewards those who play by the rules to achieve the most
we will inevitably find ways to transmute other elements into gold; gold is a great store of value (for the time being) and a wonderful element, but it is an unencrypted physical object
also, >attacking bitcoin over bitcoin cash yes—enjoy shooting fish in a barrel