The usefulness of Bitcoin and cryptos in general relies on a naive...

Yep, and you'd convert it to fiat as soon as you possibly could.

Because when you run a business, you use your sales to restock your shelf so you can have future sales, and you know that if the value of your last sale can drop by 20% when you go to the bathroom, you wouldn't be foolish enough to risk leaving it in the crypto.

found the boomer

>Blockchain has some value, crypto currencies don't.

that's where your wrong pal, as long as we decide on it being a currency, it has value.

>Anyone old enough to remember the 60's
boomer confirmed

>For every one person who brags about all the money they made, there are 100 who lose all.

no one made those 100 people buy in at ath then panic sell

lol is donald trump posting to Veeky Forums personally now?

it drops 20% in value cause it's only 100-150 billion market cap. once it's worth trillions it wont be as volatile

jeeze you know nothing about finance and economics do you?

your first point is true but uh, no one is deciding its a currency? i thought the meme was btc is now a store of value

It's not going to trillions.

And you do realize that the 150B market cap is a myth created by over-supply x last price paid.

Don't tell me you actually believe that the total bitcoin supply actually has that total worth???

it's both, a store of value and currency.

>store of value

You'd have better luck going back to the Rai stone. At least then, when it all fell apart you'd at least have a big fucking rock.

you do know 150B is a very very small amount of money for a GLOBAL asset... right?

gold is 8 trillion market cap
just one stock alone like Microsoft is 75 trillion

150B is pennies, it's still way early so go ahead and buy in now and you won't be kickin yourself later

Cryptos are nothing more than another in a long line of get-rich-quick schemes designed to steal money from poor people.

...

i'm pretty sure you know nothing about crypto then, do you even understand what a distributed ledger is? or what a smart contract is? dApps? anything?

do you really just think they are coins with names?

It's called raiBLOCKS you rētard

Gee, cryptos are just like Microsoft.

Except for, you know, that whole business of Microsoft having $89 billion in sales and $21 billion in profit each year.

But no... if we just wish really REALLY hard, we can use the power of our dreams to create wealth out of thin air.

lol

Then you would be wrong. I've read up on all that, I've read the BS whitepapers that the coiners put out to shill their shit.

I've read it, I understand it, and I reject it. Because I live in the real world

>thin air

typical boomer, you prob think Internet is magic don't you?

>cant physically hold the internet so it must be thin air

>i reject the concept of new technology

>just one stock alone like Microsoft is 75 trillion
The most valuable publicly traded company is Apple at $800B

>he fell for the private blockchain meme

If it's not decentralized it's just another ledger and thus not an innovation. Also such a thing is much less secure. As powerful as banks are, they can't compete with global computing power.

Dude, don't lecture me on the home computer revolution or the creation of the internet. I was there, and probably have forgotten more than you've read on the internet about it.

You guys are trying financial alchemy, and it isn't going to work.

1. Create a shit coin with a 97 million coin supply.

2. Keep 10 million for myself, spread the other 87 million around.

3. Start the hype machine churning, get people to believe there is "value" in the coin.

4. talk it up to $10 a coin, and hope no one noticed that I kept $100 million for my self while I was out there saving the world through block chain.

This isn't my first rodeo poindexter. I've seen this type of scam rise and fall more times than I can remember.

At least the hippies of the 60's had honest intent. It didn't make them any less stupid than the coiners are now, but at least they had honest intent.

I don't reject the technology, I reject the idea that the technology is somehow tied to the value of all of these shitcoin.

I reject the idea that a small group of social rejects have the brains, the power, or even the energy to overturn thousands of years of financial theory.

>orderbooks full of $100k BCH will be just as easy to clear as $1.2k BCH

Gold is a ponzi too btw

I wouldn't say it is a ponzi in the traditional sense, but I agree that it is an arbitrary unit of storage with zero reason for it to have value.

But that being said, since the world decided 4000 year ago to treat it that way, I guess we're stuck with it.

>thinks you can just create a crypto

You have to mine it, nothing is free. You're thinking of XRP or some shitty DAG.

And that's what we're doing today with crypto, dude. It has massive advantages over heavy ass metal. Money is an abstraction.

Most of the order book is automated trades. These get automatically adjusted when the price changes.

So the book full of 100k bitcoin isn't any more real than the market cap of bitcoin is.

Here's how you too can easily create your own cypto. Who knows, maybe it will moon

youtube.com/watch?v=eXEHWTTiE-I

But it isn't going to work.

What you're basically saying is that you are going to create your own form of wealth, start it by making sure you have a good supply yourself, and everyone is just going to go along with it?

That the entire world is just going to say "sure, I know I've got a house a car and a fat 401k, but you're right, let's just start the world over on an even playing field, and maybe I can work for another 40 years"

The naiveté of the average coiner is precious.

gold has real world uses that gives it a reason to have value

Again apply this to gold and see if your argument makes any sense.

Your made up crypto with have any hashpower first of all and secondly nobody would have any interest in owning it as it lacks any network effect at all in a market where bitcoin cash exist.

Goddamnit. Can't unsee.

There is basically no barrier to entry. I didn't prevent you from adopting early and it won't be my fault when you fomo in a couple years after your employer offers you payment in crypto.

>secondly nobody would have any interest in owning it as it lacks any network effect

You know you're winning an argument with a coiner when they bring out the double talk and hope you don't call them on it.

December 2017.... 40% of all bitcoin are held by just 1000 people

businessinsider.com/40-percent-of-bitcoins-are-held-by-just-1000-people-2017-12

Let's put that into perspective....

.... in 2004 there were 5873 members of the Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forum

Crypto's are a closed loop, where a very small group of speculators or Kool aid drinkers trade coin among themselves, bidding each other up, all hoping they can get rich without having to work for a living.

>The replacement of fiat in general with a CONTINUOUSLY, USER-UPDATED, GLOBAL, UNEDITABLE PURCHASE TRACKER FOR EVERY PERSON, AKA BLOCK-CHAIN.... is insanely beneficial to bankers. Do I even need to say why?

> in a couple of years when you boss offers to pay you in crypto.

Do yourself a favor... give your pipe dreams a little longer timeline. You won't have to adjust them so often.

See you figured it out! True wealth comes from within.

In 2009 99% of bitcoin was held by even fewer. Wealth distribution is better in crypto than in central banking systems we currently live under and you didn't refute the network effect.

Translation....

> I don't like that the world is unfair and I don't get my "fair share" of money for free. So I will re-create the world where I have the riches I deserve.

Tell you what... put all your fiat dollars into crypto. In a little while, you will have the riches you deserve

>What you're basically saying is that you are going to create your own form of wealth, start it by making sure you have a good supply yourself, and everyone is just going to go along with it?
God you are fucking stupid

A coins value comes from what it can do (its transaction times, reduced fees, reliability, privacy, decentralisation... etc). It doesn’t come from hype.

The creators having some of the coin is to incentivise them to keep working on the project.

>start over
It’s not about starting over you idiot. It’s about using something better that centralised inflationary slow nationalised fiat. It’s currency not stock ffs, it’s made to be utilised not just held for dividends.

> transaction times.
credit cards are faster

> fees
I pay no fees with credit cards

> reliability.
If the credit card machine is down, I have these pieces of paper in my pocket with pictures of presidents on them

> privacy
If I hand you a bag of cash, our transaction isn't broadcast on a public ledger for the whole world to see.

> Decentralization.
Trading one master for another. Instead of being under the thumb of a government run by people you elect, you are under the thumb of unregulated exchanges and miners who charge you for using your own money.

>'re basically saying is that you are going to create your own form of wealth, start it by making sure you have a good supply yourself, and everyone is just going to go along with it?

The average shitcoin is a ploy to gain bitcoin/ethereum. Yes those scams will go to zero but the top cryptos exist due to underlying value

wtf are you fucking serious?
pretty much everybody that owns any crypto is at least middle class

even the top cryptos have no underlying value

(once again... once you know to separate the non-proprietary tech from the coin)

The only "value" in all cryptos is speculative. People buy them because they think someone will pay them more later.

That is not value, that is a bubble and a ponzi scheme.

you seem to be really upset that you don't own crypto
may i offer you some tron or bitconnect?

>credit cards are faster
Doesn't understand what settlement is. 0conf is instant

>credit cards are free
No they aren't, merchants pay for these services and increases costs for everyone involved.

>reliability
Attack the network, I'll wait

>privacy
Your address isn't linked to your identity and there are ways to obfuscate that more. BCH has Cash Shuffle. Others have no public ledger at all

>decentralization
Crypto is regulated by mathematics. No communist running a central bank can inflate my money supply or otherwise change the rules

There's also the fact that crypto is orders of magnitude more secure than credit cards.

I just don't suffer fools lightly late at night

Thanks for the offer of coin, I'll pass. I'll just have to comfort myself with my stocks and dollars

>Bennie babies and tulips are new technology that revolutionizes finance

Dollars have no underlying value.
Gold has no underlying value.
[insert any currency] has no underlying value.
Its only utility comes in the fact that exchanging goods and services for money is easier than the alternative, i.e. bartering.

In shitholes like Venezuela, where their own currency is worthless due to hyperinflation, some people turn to cryptocurrencies as an alternative. It's gotten popular to the point where there government is cracking down on it and arresting bitcoin miners because they see it as a threat to their power. This shit has already reached critical mass, it's starting to be seen around the world as a legitimate form of currency and is experiencing the benefits of increased networking effects, which is the only thing that gives any "currency" its value

>are you saying that smart contracts have no value? (ethereum) binding them to a store of value (bitcoin) obscuring the participants (enigma) verifying the code (quanstamp) incorporating external data (link)?

If you think smart contracts are pointless please enlighten us all as to why.

Now you're talking about the dot com bubble.

A bunch of "internet companies" pop up, and idiots thing... well, if it's the internet, it must be good, that's the new tech.

Let's forget whether the company can generate profit or sales, let's ignore that they spent all their budget on super bowl ads instead of on building a client base. It's internet, so it will moon.

How is this the same.... did you hear about the iced tea company that added the word "blockchain" to its name and it's stock suddenly shot up?

I'm not sure if it will go down now that they've changed their mind, we shall see.

As they say, history may not repeat itself, but it rhymes.

All recent cryptp FUD is so retarded. Be part of the future or stay in the past faggots

the fundamental problem is that coiners believe in democracy just like anarchists, communists and hippies.
they believe in a utopia world where everyone is equal (democracy).
They debate about where they need institutions (communists) or should abolish them (ancap)
But the fundamental similarity is that they believe everyone has perfect information and everyone can make the correct decision.

however reality is not equal or democratic
information is asymmetric, we call that specialization.
this creates stratification and hierarchy which the democracy lovers hate
They don't realize this is required to force rules and improve efficency.
They would rather unleash millions of ponzicoins on humanity and allow everyone to get scammed and lose their money
If people lose their money then it's their fault for investing in the wrong coins. they didn't do the research.
the result is chaos and a broke society
All because they don't want hierarchy, they don't want to trust other humans to implement rules that will help others.
utopia.

>Dollars have no underlying value.
Dollar has have more value than crypto because it's legal tender by the government.
In other words, I don't have to worry each morning that a new crypto emerged, flipped the current reserve currency and now the value of my coins is a fraction of the old value.

>If you think smart contracts are pointless please enlighten us all as to why.
smart contracts are nothing more than scripts inside blockchain.

> I was there, and probably have forgotten more than you've read on the internet about it.
yah no shit you old fuckin boomer. enjoy your tanking stocks. get the fuck out and don't come back.

What gives dollars an underlying value is that they are backed by the full faith and credit of a nation, and citizens are required to pay their taxes in dollars.

Again, the tech may have value, but you don't need the coins to use the tech.

I'm going to go deep in the weeds for an example....

Many years ago, there were a bunch of stores that opened up whose entire business was wrapping gifts. They didn't sell you the gift, you simply walked in and paid them to wrap your gift.

Does wrapping a gift have value? Yes. Are there people who don't know how to wrap gifts and would therefore use the service? Yes.

But a fast majority of people don't need it, they can wrap their own gifts.

So the gift wrapping tech has value, but that doesn't mean you have to use the service.

It's the same thing with cryptos. If someone wants to use blockchain or smart contracts, they can do it on their own without bothering with all of the various cryptos.

The value is in the usefulness of the tech, not in the coin.

>the internet is still here and has had the largest impact on human life than just about any innovation before it, but it had bubbles in the past so nvm

Most cryptos are going to zero, just like previous tech bubbles. What exactly is your point?

you are an embarrassment to this board

> Tanking stock.

Ya, sure. Among other things, I hold shares in Lockheed Martin and Waste Management.

Unless you think peace is going to suddenly break out all over the world, or that people will suddenly stop producing garbage, I think I'm safe.

> get out and don't come back.

If you can't even successfully debate me, how do you think you are going to overturn the money changing tables?

truth hurts
newfag

>trust your government
>banks are good

You should really look into the history of fiat.

I especially agree with the last portion.

It is a symptom of the amoral streak that seems to run through a large portion of the younger population.

The apathy for anything has been replaced with a desire to kill all.

The fact that they don't see scamming people out of their money as wrong is disturbing to say the least.

>you don't need the coins to use the tech
Confirmed retard who doesn't understand what a ledger is.

Again with the utopia nonsense
World isn't perfect and requires making tough decisions.
I would rather trust my (((central bankers))) than Vitalik, who broke immutability after the DAO hack.

Crypto is nothing more than lines of code bought with fiat by gullible retards

Let me guess.... this is where you now try to claim that the miners who verify the transactions need to be paid, therefore the system requires a coin to pay them with, right?

It's like reinventing the wheel, but choosing a square because you've decided that a round wheel is a plot of the bankers.

>being this much of a boomer faggot and not even realizing it

It's not utopian. This technology provides a better way to regulate government. Trust bankers all you like faggot, enjoy your hyper inflation. ETH is a developer platform and it's centralized because the reasons you said. That doesn't exist on actual crypto like BCH.

The value in smart contracts is their immutability and immortality. They are only provably immutable and immortal when hosted on a widely dispersed network with guaranteed longevity, and it must be proven to be free of vulnerabilities (at some point in the future.) This is the only way two parties can agree to sign and fund a smart contract. The most valuable shitcoins are basically in a race to provide these functions. Do you not see the benefit of decentralization in smart contracts?

>it has to be decentralized to be innovation
blockchain is more expensive to run than anything we have now, im not talking about crypto just flat out blockchain

Had 33,252 btc, clearing out the last 200 btc from this wallet blockchain.info/address/3LHcsNvYqeUQybUhAjPu9nXzThyLTUjvHG
Whoever gets the private key first wins. Box will auto delete after it’s gone. Good luck anons.
satoshibox.com/mk4hinwc7gv2ioqp86vziv5q

Dude the "coins" aren't literal fucking tokens. You goddamn fool. All a blockchain is, is a decentralized ledger and the coins are a unit if account. How the fuck do you plan on using a ledger without any means of measurement?

Holy shit some people are fucking brainwashed! Smart contracts, lol...somebody actually show me you have used one and the advantage over a written contract that is upheld by the law...listening to you dumb fucks talk like cryptos will be worth more than a few dollars only because of transfer of money to gamble, sports book, and online casinos. Wake up children, market is down 65 percent in a month and the only ones making ng money are exchanges and miners...it's a fucking pyramid scheme and you don't even realize it..this post has by far been the best I've read on biz..

Stop calling it a currency or a "coin" when it's just a useless file being transferred over the internet for absolutely no reason at all but to make money. I'll be laughing a real good laugh when this house of cards starts collapsing if it hasn't already.

lmao btfo with your grandiose psuedo-philosophical babble for the imperative of all coiners. You can only speak for yourself.

> literally holds garbage stock instead of btc

>just one stock alone like Microsoft is 75 trillion

TOP FUCKING KEK

Look at the misogynistic posts about "roasties"
These aren't people that understand empathy
They don't care about building a community or society

Other than taking the centralizing power away from the "bankers/government" and giving it to a bunch of people you've never met before, you haven't proven that smart contracts are that much better than the existing working system.

inb4: you don't understand what a smart contract is, etc.

I do. I'm just saying that with very few exceptions, the existing system is still better.

Example: people talk about using smart contracts as a way to buy and sell shares in a company.

The existing system already gives me the ability to do that.

HOW it is done doesn't matter to me as a user, all that matters is that the trade is confirmed at the price I have paid/received.

I'm not saying that it's not an interesting idea, I'm just saying that I haven't heard too many examples where it's any better than the existing ways of transacting business or making purchases.

Feel free to give me some if you have any. I'm not unwilling to be convinced.

I kid you not... I've heard people warning me about hyper inflation for the last 40 years,.

Maybe you should listen. Or do you actually believe it's not happening?

If you like that then you will love this...

Just before the housing bubble collapsed, when anyone who was paying attention knew it was going to happen... I also put a shitload of money into toilet paper manufactures.

Some industries are recession-proof

Fiat + VISA is far superior to crypto

Economically, crypto is like the gold standard which is abysmal - why have an arbitrary fixed amount rather than amount than grows and shrinks with the economy.

As a payments system, VISA is instant, uses barely any energy, can exchange to a large number of currencies, has fraud protection, low fees and doesn't put your entire payment history in a public ledger for your merchant to see...

>grandiose psuedo-philosophical babble
more like grandiose psuedo-ideological babble but philosophical is okay
>You can only speak for yourself.
No.I can speak for other people
It's called being a leader
I am Alfamale
know your place betamale n submit

Yeah you know how your daughter speaks to you with disrespect, thrives on the attention of others via instagram, and is generally undriven to create value besides hanging out her ass? Roastie.

Not all girls are roasties, just check for the lack of sparkle in her eye from receiving 1000 dicks

i am dead dude lmao good luck in life

>everyone tells the government 'fuck off, we're all only using beanie babies as currency!!
It sounds crazy, but you know, it's not impossible. Especially in countries with shitty fiat like venezuela.

Inflation, yes. But not hyper inflation.

In my eyes, hyper inflation is post WWI Germany

You're never gonna win. Braindead ancaps will always hope that this year the hyperinflation will come and will all realise how gold/crypto/bartering is the superior way forward and. Of course it never does.