What would Gordon Ramsey say to my Shepherds Pie(made with beef instead of Lamb)?

you're like a fucking cab driver. saying erroneous shit you heard in a pub like you're fucking steven fry

It was Delicious. Though I think I'll be substituting the carrots and peas with kidney beans & Peppers to make a Cowboy Pie the next time.

no, literally, fuck you, literally everyone knows these two dishes are different

No Shepard herd sheep you dingus. That is why Shepard pies are made with lamb.

pic related.

everyone 'thinks' they are, but everyone is wrong. it's a retroactive etymological distinction.

>everyone 'thinks' they are, but everyone is wrong.

Sure, sure.

>it's a retroactive etymological distinction.

Are you sure you're not proctology extracting erroneous information?

are you seriously citing jamie oliver as a source for a historical claim? that is like an automatic win for me.

>Are you sure you're not proctology extracting erroneous information?

are you sure you aren't?

>That is why Shepard pies are made with lamb.

Nope.

The earliest recorded recipe for this is in Ms. Beeton's, a cookbook from Victorian era England. It specifically calls for "Beef, or whatever meat can be found".

The reason it's called "shepherd's" is because a shepherd was a poor person--the dish was whatever meat and veggies you could scrounge up.

If you think about it it would be idiotic for a shepherd to eat lamb because those lambs would otherwise grow up to become sheep, which provided the wool which sustained a shepherd's livelihood. It would be counterproductive for a shepherd to eat the means of his own production.

why does Veeky Forums always gets so autistic about irrelevant shit? More so than other boards.

because everyone cooks so there are a fuckton of people who think they know everything about it and you cannot get away with making spurious claims on Veeky Forums/appealing to your own authority.

Every single post on Veeky Forums is irrelevant shit.

never smoke from your own stash

I am citing a single cookery page from a well know chef who agrees with me.

Which is still more than you have done.

>are you sure you aren't?

Absolutely 100% iron glad gold plated certain.

Cottage pie is made with beef.
Shephards pie is made with lamb.

Whether that was ALWAYS true, or is a modern thing, IS ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT. Time moves linearly and this is now, where the distinction stands.

So Jamie Oliver is not a citable source, but Mrs Beeton is?

Originally, a pie made with any kind of meat and mashed potato was called a "cottage pie". In modern British English, the dish is usually called "cottage pie" if it is made with beef. If it is made with lamb it is usually called "shepherd's pie" (because a shepherd looks after sheep).

Cottage pie (made with minced beef) or shepherd's pie (made with minced lamb) is a meat pie with a crust of mashed potato.[1][2][3][4][5]

The English tradition of meat pies dates back to the Middle ages. Game pie, pot pie and mutton pie were popular and served in pastry "coffyns." These pies were cooked for hours in a slow oven, and topped with rich aspic jelly and other sweet spices. The eating of "hote [meat] pies" is mentioned in Piers Plowman, and English poem written in the 14th Century. (Cooking of the British Isles, Adrian Bailey, pages 156-7) The Elizabethans favored minced pies. "A typical Elizabethan recipe ran: Shred your meat (mutton or beef) and suet together fine. Season it with cloves, mace, pepper and some saffron, great raisins and prunes..."

The key to dating Shepherd's pie is the introduction (and acceptance) of potatoes in England. Potatoes are a new world food. They were first introduced to Europe in 1520 by the Spanish. Potatoes did not appeal to the British palate until the 18th Century. (Foods America Gave the World, A. Hyatt Verrill, page 28). Shepherd's Pie, a dish of minced meat (usually lamb, when made with beef it is called "Cottage Pie") topped with mashed potatoes was probably invented sometime in the 18th Century by frugal peasant housewives looking for creative ways to serve leftover meat to their families. It is generally agreed that it originated in the north of England and Scotland where there are large numbers of sheep--hence the name. The actual phrase "Shepherd's Pie" dates back to the 1870s, when mincing machines made the shredding of meat easy and popular."

>I am citing a single cookery page from a well know chef who agrees with me.

all it proves is that jamie oliver believes it. i'm not particularly inclined to model my opinion on jamie oliver's in general and i doubt you are either, so why pick this one? oh yes, because of confirmation bias.

both are citable sources. jamie oliver is just a particularly bad one.

>So Jamie Oliver is not a citable source, but Mrs Beeton is?

Clearly, because Beeton's was the first ever printing of the recipe. It set the standard.

What Jamie oliveoil believes is irrelevant, because he could easily be mistaken. Also, since he's famous as a TV personality rather than for is actual cooking skills I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt. He's closer to an actor than he is to a 3-star chef.

But regardless of what the original term was, is right: you can't fight the retards who don't know any better. These days shepherd's pie implies lamb.

>If you think about it it would be idiotic for a shepherd to eat lamb

This is incorrect; you only need a few rams in a herd for reproduction, thus most of the males born will end up on the dinner plate. This applies to most livestock that I'm aware of.

>Beeton's was the first ever printing of the recipe.

Before then no one ever cooked the dish or named it!

>akshually 200years ago the words were the same so somehow that is relevant in 2016

What the fuck is that literally this Americans argument? It's like saying

>akshually gay means happy haha jokes on you unhappy people

the point is that people who believe there is a distinction do so because they believe there *should* be a distinction - not because those dishes were named differently at the point of invention. those people who correct you when you call a pie made with lamb a cottage pie - they're talking out of their arse.

That's cabin pie, as opposed to duplex pie or rancher's pie.