Amerifats - how are you complying with the new IRS tax code regarding crypto trades? It's my understanding trading cyrpto is nearly impossible now as every trade is susceptible to taxation. How do you keep track of your trades/taxes? Is it possible to continue using turbotax or will I need to hire someone?
Also, what's the story with Randall Lord? Dude was sentenced to 40+ months in federal fuck you in the ass prison for trading bitcoin. Claimed he had lawyers and CPAs working for him but the judge made an example out of him anyway, despite paying his taxes.
amerifat here. i just hold and cashout and repeat the process. easy tracking and reporting.
>Brining up Randall Lord case
This is subtle FUD and you're a massive kike bootlicking faggot
This. You forgot to mention the reason they are going to jail is because they were selling drugs and had an unregistered exchange.
Everybody uses bitcoin.tax or cointracking.info in addition to a CPA.
That's only way.
Yes, his interview on YT did introduce some FUD. Wasn't aware of the drug selling and unregistered exchange though, will read more.
I have never been this happy before for being brazilian. And bitcoin is 10-20% more expensive here, so more profit when i cash out.
Feels good man.
it's such a huge pain in the ass to sort this shit out correctly even with years of experience with excel, exchange .cdv files vary wildly in terms of comprehensiveness and quality. coinbase .csv exports are A FUCKING JOKE. use cointracking.info it is great but it still sucks ass and you will have to do a metric fuckton of manual corrections and entrys. coins sent between exchanges and wallets are a FUCKING PAIN IN THE ASS to track. if you have been on binance for 3+ months without exporting your trading info you are fucked. the reporting is so onerous that most people will not report... that's my conclusion. most shit for brains will be incapble of managing 6 open spreadsheets on multiple computer acreens.
Simple google search brings all of that up. Also they didnt report like 30k. Its not like they legally traded coins and reported it as best they could and still got fucked. Until someone goes to jail for reporting fairly I aint worried.
>hello fellow goyim >it's my understanding
So every trade is taxable but when do you pay? So if I bought bitcoin January 20th and kept trading bitcoin for eth or bitcoin for FUN or another coin. Now it's February 20th and I made 1000 trades. You have to keep track of each trade and loss/gains, but don't you have to pay taxes only when you cash out? You can tax people, but until they cash out from crypto to fiat, you should still be considered holding.
I'm just wondering if you have to pay this April or if you never cash out, you have to pay next year?
I’m just reporting my capital gains when I cash out as a courtesy. The IRS should be happy with that
i don't sell. easy as that. once you hold over 1 year the tax goes down to only 10-20% depending on income.. therefore i don't gamble and don't bother with shitcoins
>as a courtesy All you're doing is painting a giant fucking target on your back. You'll be the first to get audited and fucked.
How much for less than 1 year holding in america? Here is like 20-25% and drops to 15% after 1 year holding.
lol you afraid of the boogeyman?
I'm probably just going to keep it all hush hush (;
The fucking state of newfags. You pay taxes from 2018 in 2019.
Just keep track of end investment minus initial investment. Then supply trades if IRS questions you. Cash out in dec, dont hold over into Jan and risk getting burned. You dont have to keep track of every trade like most people think. The math adds up the exact same if you do per trade or total like I said. Go ahead and do it yourself. End amount - starting amount. Just cash out before EOY. Start 2019 with a fresh stack investment.
>You have to keep track of each trade and loss/gains, Yes. >but don't you have to pay taxes only when you cash out? incorrect. each trade from ETC->BTC, ETC->LINK etc is a taxable event based on the current USD market value.
Honestly I'd be OK with that. Let them do all the work. The penalties would probably be less than hiring an accountant. He's going to be digging through some many trades to find any that make money.
>paying taxes on literal air
according to my cpa anywhere from 30-45%
don't pay these guys fuck all... we were a nation built on avoiding taxation of a tyrannical government. spend your crypto and avoid fiat, that's what will make this movement vrroom vrooom. fuck fiat and fuck these cucks for thinking they deserve a piece of anything.
also your cpa doesn't know dog shit about capital gains apparently. gotta remember 50% of these nerds graduated in the bottom half of the class. He sounds like one of em.
This. Daytrading complicates things. If you hold and cash out, it's easy to calculate your gains.
I paid federal and NY state income tax. Already received both incomes. I have not cashed out or bought anything with the crypto (though I did do crypto-for-crypto trades, which I consider like kind). I'm a relatively small fish (6k invested in 2017, roughly 15k in value now).
*both tax returns, I mean.
>I consider like kind You appear to have not realized yet that your opinion doesn't matter.
You pay taxes on every stock trade too (offset by losses of course). My crypto taxes have been the same process.
Everything you bought or traded has a buy date and a sell date. Cost basis is calculated and you are taxed if you have gains after subtracting loses. Cashing out does not matter.
Use bitcoin.tax, import trades from all your exchanges via API (don't fuck about with csv files) the website then calculates your entire year and you can export a file to TurboTax.
Option B: Get audited at some point in the future and pay back taxes plus penalties, plus whatever other mistakes you may have made the last 7 years. Plus fed prison if you can't pay.
Actually, intent absolutely does matter if you are worried about getting charged with tax fraud. Best reading of the current law is like-kind. Also, I would be worried if I were a whale, but I'm not.
It makes absolutely no sense to tax crypto this way. No sense at all. And no matter how many times you folks post this, you don't actually have a sauce for why the IRS would handle it this way, vs. the entirely more intuitive method of treating crypto-for-crytpo trades as like kind and making the profit realization event buying something non-like-kind or cashing out. IRS knows that if they make paying taxes on crytpo next to impossible they will get fuck all from traders and the number of people they can actually go after will be negligible to the market at large.
All they're doing is taxing crypto trades the same way as stocks, more or less.
>I have never been this happy before for being brazilian. What do you mean by this? Don't you think the lion is eventually going to come hard at hue's cryptogains?
>you don't actually have a sauce
-7: What type of gain or loss does a taxpayer realiz e on the sale or exchange of virtual currency? A-7: The character of the gain or loss generally depends on whether the virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer. A taxpay er generally realizes capital gain or loss on the sale or exchange of virtual currency that is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer. For example, stocks, bonds, and other investment property are generally capital assets. A taxpayer generally realiz es ordinary gain or loss on the sale or exchange of virtual currency that is not a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer. Inventory and other property held main ly for sale to customers in a trade or 4 business are examples of property that is not a capital asset. See Publication 544 for more information about capital assets and the character of gain or loss.
www irs gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
And stoc.k-for-stock trades are considered like-kind. The taxable event is cashing out or trading for a non-like-kind asset/investment.
Feels good to be in the Netherlands. Almost no tax.
Burgers have no way out. IRS will hunt them and destroy them. Fcking KEK if you want too evade tax in US.
YOU WILL GET FUKT. Algorithms are too strong, they will track you the fuk down.
Only choice for burgers is Puerto Rico.
>A taxpayer generally realizes ordinary gain or loss on the sale or exchange of virtual currency that is not a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer. Both this quote and the bitcoin.tax site you referenced support my position, not yours. exchanging Crypto A for Crypto B is not a realization event under exactly the language you quoted here. It's the exchange of one capital asset for another. Crypto B is no more "inventory or other property held mainly for sale to customers in a trade or business" than Crypto A.
> Buy crypto in small amounts with legit account > transfer to alias account or wallet
Sorry mr taxman i didn't report the crypto because i bought drugs with it on the dark web. Why is that so hard. They aren't the dea
>Tax is potentially due when a tax event occurs. For Bitcoin, this is whenever they are converted into fiat currency (e.g. US Dollars) or equivalent. This includes selling on an exchange, selling to another person, or buying goods or services. from bitcoin.tax
No they are not dumb fuck. Try trading your apple stock for Google stock. Of course you pay tax on your profit from when you first bought apple to the point you traded for google.
Otherwise you could just cash out of Google 1 second after buying it and claim you had zero gain, while hiding your apple gain in muh "like kind" trade.
How does the use of something like Binance coin to pay a trading fee factor into this? Doesn't the value of BNB fluctuate relative to the coin you are trading? So the value you are realizing from the use of BNB could go up? Do you pay tax on that?
>What about if I bought some Ethereum or Litecoin? Potentially another tax event. Think of it as selling Bitcoins back to cash, then buying your other coins with that. That sale might have gains, and so is treated the same way.
Seriously BNB makes things even messier. If I didn’t do KYC with Binance, how the fuck can the IRS prove that the Binance wallet I sent my money to belongs to me? Even if the IRS demanded that Binance complied, they probably don’t give a fuck about the IRS
>selling on an exchange So if you trade (sell) the BTC on an exchange for another crypto, that's a taxable event.
we’re absolutely fucked arent we
crypto is really just a scam to put clueless NEETs like us into the prison-industrial complex isn’t it
Which is better: bitcoin.tax or cointracking? Both seem pretty unreliable. Also, is there any way to get cointracking to show in $?
I would love to see how one of these bootlicking cucks answers the BNB question. According to their warped interpretation of tax law the use of BNB or any other exchange coin is a taxable event.
Probably. I'm not looking for ways to screw the government (even though taxation is theft), just looking for ways to "do it right" to avoid prison and audits if at all possible.
Good info. For the entire year? Just started buying in middle of January. Only a few hundred bucks. That's it. Lost like $200. 500 or more crypto to crypto trades.
So two guys will pop in on this thread and start suggesting tax software and telling you that if you don't pay you go to jail. Lets see how this thread plays out.
Does bitcoin.tax provide the USD market value for the currencies at the time of the trade?
I think you also have the option of filing with a zero cost option.
I'm a developer so I built a system to do it for me. I enter the trades into a front end, it calculates cost basis in USD, export to accounting software, export to tax software, wa-la.
no it won't share it.
Also. If the value of BNB goes down and I use it to make a trade can I claim it as a loss?
Nobody is keeping track you pajeet
> No they are not dumb fuck. Try trading your apple stock for Google stock. Of course you pay tax on your profit from when you first bought apple to the point you traded for google.
This guy is the first one. suggested Bitcoin.tax and is spreading misinformation.
So the reason why you pay taxes on stock is that you have to cash out between each trade when it comes to stocks. With digital goods that never happens and also cannot be allowed to happen. Its an overstep on the part of the IRS because applying lays that work for physical goods vs digital goods is impossible. Digital and physical goods don't work the same way and dont have the same attributes.
The ol daily tax fud from nocoiners and the neets that believe it
That is true, you are right. But until there, i will make money for my retirement
>crypto is really just a scam to put clueless NEETs like us into the prison-industrial complex isn’t it
Paying taxes on digital goods IS absolutely a scam. Its old people attempting to apply logic they know from their world to the new world.
it's the litmus test for identifying poor people basically
What about the "dust" on Binance. Got like 10 coins I can't get rid of. Like .00040000. Binance won't let you trade every coin to BNB. This whole thing is fucked for real.
Majority of people are trading one coin for another god who knows how many times a day. Not many people report anything. Good luck to the IRS in auditing millions of people for this. From what I've seen, they go after large amounts of money. You don't make much off little guys. The big money comes from the dolphins and whales.
Yes. Just try it with your 2017 data. It's free up to the first 200 or 2000 trades, I can't remember which. But I did my 2017 for free since I mostly hold and only had a handful or eth to alt purchases.
they will spend the first few years going after the high earners, then once they have it automated they will come for everyone else
sell it! youll make so much money!!
shouldn't be too hard to erase the trail from them anyways
You are such a pathetic pussy. Kys.
This whole thing is stupid, most of you are panicking for no reason.
They are not going to come after every brainlet with 0.000005 BTC. The only people they are concerned with are the whales holding hundreds to millions in coins. It will cost them more time and money searching for all of you small fry than it would to just leave you alone. Same for the idiots that use torrents.
In this case, so long as most of you sprinkle your earnings out over multiple fiat deposits they won't say a thing. But if your dumbass dumps $100,000 In your account at once you can expect some irs faggot to be at your door because the gubment wants their $20,000 off the top.
I make enough money and have no desire to make it compatible with other peoples systems or provide support/bug fixes
>I predict two guys will say two things that are true.
Tax software is the only way to calculate the cost basis because it pulls up the dollar value of the coins at time of trade from API's. And yes, if you don't pay your taxes you can go to jail.
DO NOT UPLOAD ANYTHING TO A TRACKING/TAX WEBSITE!
I'm not saying it isn't bullshit. Because it is complete bullshit that the IRS handles trades this way. But I understand the laws, and don't want to go through an audit over monopoly money.
Do whatever you want I don't care.
well make it compatible for one system only. or can you send me over the code?
> That is true, you are right. > But until there, i will make money for my retirement
They cant though. Barack Obama himself said they couldn't do anything about Bitcoin while he was president. Its basically a Kaimon island for every citizen.
They cant do anything even when they have software to look at the entire blockchain. And even when they catch people more than half the time it wont result in them obtaining the wallets.
They are helpless and flailing about on Veeky Forums.
what you're forgetting is you have to maintain a history of good records if you plan on making it some day. I started in 2013 and have followed the letter of the tax law since then even though I was losing a few thousand every year. now I have hundreds of thousands in crypto and have perfect records going all the way back. if you just ignore the problem until you get rich, you're gonna hate your life.
another question , how did you learn to code?
>Digital and physical goods don't work the same way and dont have the same attributes.
Your opinion is not the one that matters. Your opinion, is not the thing that decides if our asses get aquatinted with Tyrone in jail or not. In the eyes of the IRS "virtual currency" is classified under PROPERTY. And falls under the same rules as all physical property.
no but it's simple as using scripts to pull price tickers from exchange APIs and putting the data into a SQL database. then an entry form to enter price/amounts/dates and do the USD conversions from BTC/ETH/etc if it's crypto to crypto. another script to export that data, another script to export that. not very difficult if you know how to manage data and write scripts.
>Tax software is the only way to calculate the cost basis because it pulls up the dollar value of the coins at time of trade from API's. And yes, if you don't pay your taxes you can go to jail.
Yeah but its the same two guys and they want you to buy their software. This entire thing has been a shilling campaign for awhile now. The IRS doesn't come here its companies selling tax software. The more spooked you get the more they sell.
Do iRS ppl really come to people's doors? Like show up in person? I find that very stupid on the part of the irs. That is like saying cops will go door to door for gun confiscation. I dont see it happening.
some college but mostly on the job, I work in data and analytics
Literally all I did was copy and paste my trade history into an excel sheet and send it to my accountant and had to pay an extra $50 to process. Why is everyone acting like this is so fucking hard or devastating?
There's literally only two or three one's on the market that are up to the job.
because try tracking half-filled orders from DEXes like EtherDelta and shithole exchanges like Bitgrail, accounting for ICOs we probably weren’t supposed to buy into, cross-exchange arbitrage, etc
it’s a fuckinng nightmare and we are absolutely FUCKED
how can i learn this?
>I'm not saying it isn't bullshit. Because it is complete bullshit that the IRS handles trades this way. But I understand the laws, and don't want to go through an audit over monopoly money. >Do whatever you want I don't care.
Its not possible to do. And it also sets a very dark precedent for the future of digital goods in general. I know a lot of you people want to believe that this stops at crypto but in reality it will spread to ALL digital goods.
You wont even be able to play a video game without having to pay taxes on your digital goods. Mark my fucking words. If this is allowed to happen you will owe capital gains for anything that is perceived as valued.
>if you just ignore the problem until you get rich, you're gonna hate your life. this
because a lot of people have thousands of trades for shitcoins that don't have fiat markets. 10 coinbase trades are not very difficult, 1000 etherdelta/kucoin/binance trades are a whole different ballpark and your account would have told you to fuck off.
So if you already decided in your mind that it's a shilling campaign, you're going to see evidence that supports your belief.
I had over 600 trades on binance...
go to school for data science
this chad sounds like he knows what he is talking about: crypto to crypto is taxable
you better check his work then. I do all the calculations myself which is why I don't trust random accountants with it, it's a pretty terrible process because you need to consistently apply how you calculate USD values and can't cherry pick prices to minimize your tax exposure. I wouldn't trust anyone who charged me $50 for that.
> Your opinion is not the one that matters.
Objective fact is not my opinion. Its my opinion that this objective fact is important to this discussion.
Alright I think this is guy number 2. Its like clock work.
> Your opinion, is not the thing that decides if our asses get aquatinted with Tyrone in jail
God you even say the same shit every fucking time. Its not "our asses" you are a no coiner and you admitted it last time. One of you two is the lead shill on this. This is annoying as fuck.
Last time it was like "I hate to see anons losing money" or some shit.
Anons, is their any fucking way we can pinpoint if these threads are the same 2 / 3 guys? Because I fucking swear it is.
I know who you are. I've seen you in 2 or 3 threads saying inaccurate shit.
You say the same shit every time too because you believe that's true. I say the same shit every time because I think what I'm saying is true.
>So if you already decided in your mind that it's a shilling campaign, you're going to see evidence that supports your belief.
I jump in on pretty much every one of these threads as its helped me learn the arguments of the topic a lot more. And I can very safely say I feel like I am arguing with the same 2 guys each time. Maybe its my imagination maybe its not. But its more than a gut feeling anymore.
I don't know if its IRS or if its tax software shills. But its like I am talking to the same two people every damn time.