/nicethingsareascam/ general

I'm talking about the vg10 variants

Vg 10 has significantly better edge retention than any German steels and is only really lesser than the white Hitachi steels

i traveled to a small mountain village in japan to have my custom santoku knife made which was forged and folded over 1000 times

Yeah, me too. Most people when they say "Tojiro" mean "Tojiro DP", although there are several other lines

Sudoku knife?

I know very experienced people that love VG-10, experienced people that don't like it and experienced people that hate it.

I've been in the knife and sharpening world for ages now, and it's a weird place.

I personally think VG-10 is one of the better steels, but I much prefer the newer powdered metallurgy stuff.

I was fed up with wooden or plastic toothpicks. So I invested a little in some gold ones. I feel so much cleaner in my mouth.

I bought a fancy knife bag when my Messermier one cropped out.
Green canvas with nice leather straps and a handle. 12 slots for my gear and an extra protective fold.

Feels good man. Solid 130 bucks

Line cook.
Bought a Fujiwara Konefusa 11.5" Gyuto for about $120. Has a lot of purposes, I like the weight of the blade as well. Does most of the cutting for me.
Also got a Gesshin Uraku 8" Nakiri. I think it was $150. Use it for chopping vegetables and fruits or slicing certain cuts of meat.
Honestly the only knives you need are a chef knife, filet, and a paring. Everything else are just toys.

> scraping poisonous heavy metal against your teeth

>gold
>poisonous
You do realize that gold is an inert heavy metal, right?
Don't get me wrong, that toothpick is fucking retarded. But don't lie to this man and call it poisonous.

I envy this living on the 19th floor of an apartment building.

>paring
>not short utility knife

pleb

Why the fuck would I ever want a "short utility knife"? What can that do that my chef's knife cannot?

And OTOH, a short utility knife is impractical for most of the tasks a paring knife is good for because the cutting edge is far away from the handle. That makes it more cumbersome for peeling or carving.

Gold ions are toxic, as in the gold you scrape off with your teeth and dissolve with the volatiles you ingest

en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gold&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop#Toxicity

Have you considered getting a Krono style BBQ for indoors? It would compliment an electric stove well.

Finally moved out of parent's house and in with my girlfriend. Realized I've been spoiled my whole life using my dad's expensive knives. Now I'm trying to dice onions with a dull cleaver. Yeh this isn't gonna work. So I bought this to start my knife collection. 130-140 bucks, don't remember exactly. How'd I do?

mince shallots you stupid faggot

You didn't do so well. The knife itself is the definition of mediocre, and you could have done so much better for the same price.

No bread knife?

actually I take that back sorry, i thought it was another brand. Zwilling-Henckels are one of the best mass production knife companies out there atm. you did pretty good

Like what?

Parents gave me one of their Creuset when I moved out. I'll stab a nigga before I give it up.
My best knife at the moment is my Global santoku/chef sort of hybrid.

Also I bought a 150 yuro damascus Henckel when I went to Germany but I gave it to my chef friend.

I mince shallots every single goddamn day with a chef's knife.

read
my bad soz

Have fun with your CO poisoning

Oh nice.

A fucking henkel?
Why?

Not really

and I mince them more finely with my utility knife.

>general

Henckles was a good brand about 50 years ago

But they have really let themselves go while keeping the high prices

Old chefs will think you did well, new chefs will know better

Why can't you use your chef's knife for that task? Is it dull or something?

You're aware that kitchens have rangehoods right... and that normal gas stoves produce CO as well?

I would've agreed with you both in the past, but ZH have become way better then their competitors in the last few years. They are currently way better then Shun and Wusthof have ever been.

They were good, then shit, and now they're good again.

That being said, I much prefer Jap knives and I would've gone for something different for 130-140 bucks

He said he has an all electric house, meaning no range hood

Electric stoves sometimes have a charcoal vent to filter smoke from burned shit but that's it

Meaning him putting a giving charcoal grill on his electric range will do shit and he'll die of co poisoning

Fucking not giving*

Also homes with gas have co monitors

>zh better than shun or wusthof

Wow

The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one

I'm sorry you have buyer's remorse but spreading blatant lies doesn't help

>He said he has an all electric house, meaning no range hood

If you say so...

Which is an extreme giving rarity

Do you know what a range hood is?
It's a fan that vents outside.
An electric fan.
You can have a range hood regardless of what kind of stove you have.

Fucking Swype

Fucking not giving*

>He said he has an all electric house, meaning no range hood

Lol, what? Since when does "all electric" have anything to do with range hoods? Every house and apartment I have lived in has had a range hood, regardless of whether the range was gas, electric, or induction.

>>Meaning him putting a giving charcoal grill on his electric range will do shit

We don't know if he has a proper range hood or not.

>>and he'll die of co poisoning
Even with no range hood that's highly unlikely. A tiny little grill like that will use very little charcoal. Claiming that will give you CO poisoning is about as silly as stating that drinking a sip of beer will result in instant death from alcohol poisoning.

I've lived in 2 homes and 1 apartment with gas. None had CO monitors.

When will you fools understand that none of these things are "standardized" and that the presence of CO monitors and hoods are not in any way linked to the type of stove present. There is no correlation here.

This is what most homes with electric stoves have

It is a charcoal filter that recirculates into the same room, the alternative is a microwave that has the same sort of recirculation fan

(Spice cabinet open to show there is no ducting)

Most home owners insurance policies require a co monitor, same goes for most rental laws in most states

The fact your land lord didn't have one installed means you can sue him

Get some cheap ones from a restaurant supply store.

there are people in this thread RIGHT NOW who think the fan above their stove actually goes outside instead of venting back into their home from a grate above their heads or just into the wallspace

Kom Kom and Kiwi knives have a decent name for cheap Chinese style chef's knives (actually Thai, but close enough).

Indeed. I know mine goes outside because I had to cut the fucking hole in the roof to install the vent myself.

You're right that some of them do vent right back into the same room, but it's pretty fucking easy to look and see which type you have. Either there's a big fucking duct that goes up to the roof, or there's no duct and instead a vent that points back into the kitchen. You'd have to be a pants-on-head retard to confuse the two.

The user you're arguing with isn't the one who bought the knife, I am, and I don't have buyers remorse, it works just fine. But I don't really know that much about knives. You think wustof is better? I almost bought the wustof chef's knife instead for about the same price. Why do you think it's better?

I bought this sharpening steel dirt cheap in my youth. For some reason it always followed me around.. I lived tons of places, its the only thing I got left

>pants-on-head retard

I really don't understand people's obsession with edge retention. I mean, some of the German and French stuff from the 90s and early 2000s were too soft combined with too much focus on corrosion resistance, making them harder to sharpen while losing their fine edge within hours of continuous hard use, but the newer ones are treated to be harder and retain their edges much better while keeping the corrosion resistance that most cheaper Japanese blades don't have as much of. In addition to the decreased gap in edge retention, are differences in fit and finish, blade geometry, handle comfort, weight, and other characteristics that have just as much, if not more importance for a lot of people who don't see sharing their knives from time to time as a monumental task.
I have plenty of western and Japanese knives and I don't keep knives around that don't see plenty of use. Just because the steel is German, that doesn't mean it's bad and just because it's Japanese, that doesn't mean it's good, unless you're a weeb.

You don't sharpen with a steel, user.

if it's a diamond steel you can pretty much get by using only that and nothing else, if you're not one of those "b-but it removes metal" spergs

it's not as good as a proper setup but it's a hell of a lot better than what most people use, which is to say, nothing

>diamond steel
>steel
Retard.

>2016
>not being a weeb

aaaand, here comes the autism

what term would you prefer, spergo?

I'm one of those guys obsessed with edge retention, but I agree with what you're saying.
A lot of the information out there about steel is just old recycled garbage that salespeople use to make a commission.

It's bullshit in a similar vein to 'only buy a full tang handle with rivets', or 'a bolster is important'... but instead they've moved on to bashing European knives/steels now.

Funny thing is, some of the most famous Japanese brands out there (Konosuke, Shigefusa) like to use Swedish steel to make some of their knives.

Go figure.

>Funny thing is, some of the most famous Japanese brands out there (Konosuke, Shigefusa) like to use Swedish steel to make some of their knives.
What do you find funny about it? Swedish steel has a lot more in common with Japanese steel than it does with German steel. I think you're confusing "being a weeb" with "being interested in low primary angles and high hardness"

>What do you find funny about it?
People who claim that the Japs do it better then anyone, despite the Japs sometimes choosing Swedish steels over the Japanese steels.

How do low primary angles or high hardness apply to anything I said?

The modern fashion of low angle high hardness knives started with Japanese knives. There are some knives from other countries being made in that style, but when a person speaks generally about liking or disliking "Japanese knives" it can be assumed they would include those knives as well just as when they speak disparagingly or approvingly about "German knives" you can assume they mean softer battle-axe type knives.

For instance, a Japanese knife fan will generally appreciate a knife like the Artifex knives from CTKG even though they are an American brand. Likewise, a German knife fan will appreciate a Victorinox fibrox even though it is a Swiss brand.

Stop trying so hard not to be a weeaboo, it's really pathetic.

>person speaks generally about liking or disliking "Japanese knives" it can be assumed they would include those knives as well just as when they speak disparagingly or approvingly about "German knives" you can assume they mean softer battle-axe type knives.
A Japanese knife is one made by a Japanese company, no?

And besides, I was talking about steels. Not hardness or angles. You can't label a knife as being Japanese just because it's steel came from Haitachi instead of Sandvik.

You've gone off on your own tangent then called me a weeaboo for it. Nice.

>A Japanese knife is one made by a Japanese company, no?
Speaking literally, yes. But people prefer Japanese knives because of their characteristics, not because they are from Japan
>You can't label a knife as being Japanese just because it's steel came from Haitachi instead of Sandvik.
So then, you concede my point. People like Japanese knives because of their characteristics, and when someone says "I like Japanese knives more than German knives", and some Japanese company decides to manufacture a knife with all of the characteristics of a heavy 1950s style wusthof, out of entirely raw materials sourced from the island of Honshu, that so-called Japanese knife fan would still prefer an American knife made of Swedish steel over that knife.
>then called me a weeaboo
The most ardent anti-weebs are usually people who went through an insufferable weeb phase and now are feeling remorseful. Perhaps that's you, perhaps it isn't. Surely no less ridiculous of an assumption than the one that you made, which is that if you announce the shocking news that some Japanese knife makers use Swedish steel, that it's a fatal strike to the hearts of anyone who likes Japanese style knives.

>How do low primary angles or high hardness apply to anything I said?

Because "the "Japs do it better" doesn't refer to just the steel they chose. It applies to the whole package: the shape of the blade, the primary angle, the hardness, and so on.

why do we have to have this inane debate in every single knife thread

>there are people in this thread right now that dont understand basic facets of home ownership
top neet

Yup.
Even Jiro switched to Swedish knives for sashimi.
>inb4 weeb, I swear i'm not.

>inb4 weeb, I swear i'm not.
sure you aren't
>Jiro does this, Jiro does that
weeb

because Veeky Forums is filled with self-hating weebs who, despite spending hours every week hanging out on an anime-themed website, feel that they can somehow recover their dignity by announcing to a bunch of strangers that they totally have never approved of anything even remotely connected with Japan

We're sweebos now, Gotta keep up with the trend.

I approve of nuclear weapons and their use to subdue subhuman warmongers.
Does that count?

An authentic wok, a sharp knife and a gas stove.
Everything i cook is stir fried
Shit takes less than 20 minutes

But Victorinox is not a battle axe (ie. large edge angle and thick behind the edge). It's closer to a Global/Mac/Toshiro in edge geometry, but then again most German knives have been for decades.

The faster embrace of higher hardness stainless is relatively recent and Germans will make the jump sooner or later for their main lines. Historically Henckel was an innovator in this respect with cryo-treatment. High hardness carbon steel knives are not Japan specific, they have those in Solingen too.

In the end the biggest average differences which will remain between Japanese and German knives is tip shape, spine thickness/weight and handles. At least in the Gyuto/chef's knife range, I don't think the Germans will ever copy the super high angle chisel edged knives.

I'm a line cook at a fast casual spot and get paid next to nothing, so I had to save the 60 bucks to snag a Spanish made Henckel's. Nothing too fancy, but it's sturdy as hell and holds an edge very well. I really want to get a Global utility knife though. I think that costs a little closer to a C note though.

>nuclear warfare comments
classic self-hating weeb syndrome, as described in DSM-V. see also: uncontrolled rage and comments about pedophiles when exposed to cartoon imagery
swedes eat fish and love black dicks so, same thing

>The faster embrace of higher hardness stainless is relatively recent and Germans will make the jump sooner or later for their main lines

I'm not so sure about that. IMHO the choice of steel is part of the defining characteristics of the "German" design. It's part of the "battle axe" design just like the larger edge bevel is. For a do-everything knife you don't want super-hard steel--that would actually be counterproductive.

The German brands have responded to the trend by subcontracting 'Japanese style' knives to be sold under their own name

It's an attempt at responding to changes in demand while being able to still claim that their core products are desirable. An interesting strategy but I'm not sure if it's going to be so good for them in the long run. Probably they want to maintain their existing production lines and keep dem jerrbs

In the 80s when we saw a Japanese-driven trend towards higher quality, more reliable, smaller, more efficient vehicles with modern fuel injection and independent suspension, the American car manufacturers responded by missing the point entirely and cranking out tiny shitboxes made with the same shit-tier technology as before. When they were rejected by consumers the predictable response was "waah waah Japan not playing fair" and tariffs were raised. Japan then built a bunch of factories in the US and, unsurprisingly, came inside Detroit's ass

If Germany wants to remain relevant they should shut down the old machinery and make modern knives made with high quality imported steel, from Sweden or Japan

>The German brands have responded to the trend by subcontracting 'Japanese style' knives to be sold under their own name

Yeah, I have seen that. Sort of like how Henckels has the "Miyabi" brand.

But if you ask me, it will stay like that. I don't see there being much compeition between the old-school "German" style and the "Japanese" style. They're fundamentally different products, and I'm not sure that one is automatically "better" than the others.

A thicker knife made with softer steel handles abuse very well. And it's ideal if you can only have one knife because it can handle the delicate work as well as the heavy chopping without risk of damage.

The Japanese style knives with harder steel and more acute bevels cut with less effort and retain their edge longer. But I certainly wouldn't want to use one of those to chop up bones for making stock, split lobsters, or clean crabs.

There are pros and cons to each type. The German design is more of a "one size fits all" sort of thing, whereas the Japanese knives tend to be more specialized.

Supreme taste.

>high quality imported steel, from Sweden or Japan
>Japan has good quality natural resources.
They import all of their raw material you stupid fucking weeb.

>They import all of their raw material you stupid fucking weeb.
And where did that poster say they didnt do that?

You can import raw materials and still output good finished products or refined metals fuckwit, you dont have to have 100% of a supply chain in a nation to produce something.

>I don't see there being much compeition between the old-school "German" style and the "Japanese" style. They're fundamentally different products, and I'm not sure that one is automatically "better" than the others.

There's quite a bit of overlap, your average gyuto purchased as a "do everything knife" is going to be something more like a Tojiro DP and less like a Takeda. Short of bashing through the center section of chicken thighs all day, it's going to be fine for smaller bones and blue crabs and stuff like that. For stock, the softer end of the thigh won't pose any threat to the edge.

One of the reasons Japanese knives have taken off so strongly is that it's not just three companies making a small assortment of the same thing. It's dozens of companies offering something for pretty much everyone. Specialized, yes, but to your point of "one size fits all", different people have different ideas of "all". Most home cooks are not splitting elderly lobsters all day, they're maybe breaking down a chicken, chopping vegetables, cutting smaller fish, slicing roasts, and mincing herbs. So they aren't going to worry about the knife's ability to crack through thick bones.

>tfw i can buy one for 20€
You got, got boi

Sorry spergo, but finished steel billets from a Japanese steel factory is still Japanese steel, whether your assburgers can handle it or not.

>different people have different ideas of "all".

Of course they do. My point was that the market can easily support two (or more) different types of products. The customers who want a more durable "battle axe" can buy the old-school German style. The customers who don't need to deal with the harder stuff can buy a Japanese-style chef's knife. The customers who only cut very soft foods can go all out and buy a yanagi. Etc. I don't see any as "replacing" the other.

I doubt the production line is the problem for Zwilling, they've been doing CO2 level cryo longer than almost anyone else (which is enough, don't need LN2 to get Sandvik steels to HRC60). The only thing they'd have to change is oil quenching instead of air quenching, with all the extra costs from warping. Also they would lose their high margins on the Miyabi knives.

As long as they can sell knives on name alone it makes some sense to do so, though it's bad for the brand long term.

Engineer
I eat out daily and nightly, cooking is for poor people. About 800$ -1000$/month, still save tons

if you're not using a propane burner then you're doing it wrong.

Amerifag here, gotta pay for the import, I guess. I tried buying American made for healer but this was bets I could come up with.

You either don't drink with your meals, or you're drinking dog shit

>What's your favorite nice thing that you can afford because you have a job at McDonalds?
I took my girlfriend to a nice dinner at a 4 1/2 - 5 star restaurant. It cost about 200 bucks incl tip. another 30 bucks on uber black and another 30 for movie tickets. It was worth it.