Ask the Butcher

Right? Thing is, I CAN give discounts in a lot of circumstances. I can cut it up special, tie it with a pretty bow and write your name in chinese on the bottom of the bone and take 2 dollars off the price, but I'll be fucked if I'm gonna do that for some rude European that can hardly even speak English.

> Cause any european would want to buy your shitty meat
Greetings from germany you cunts

There's a lot of things you can ruin by cutting it wrong (in terms of how customers appreciate it or are willing to pay for it). I think the hardest thing to do as a butcher is to keep up with all of the cooking instructions and specialty cuts- such as the denver steak.

Since we live in a modern world where if we need to buy certain items (i.e. striploins) we can get them in instead of having to say "oh, sorry- the steer no longer has a short loin, so we cannot sell you new york strips or fillet mignon".

The flat iron and the hanger steak are two that are particularly interesting to cut, so I suppose that's what I'd answer for a ruinable cut.

I live on the east coast. Tri-tip roasts and steaks are often considered to be a Californian phenomenon. Other states are interested in it, but it's often CA residents visiting my shop that ask for it. It comes from a portion of the top butt sirloin and the sirloin tip.

Legit- thanks.

The most underrated cut of meat has to be the sirloin steak. For its price, it's probably the best cut of meat in the animal. However, its general leanness but lack of prestige on cooking shows makes it sell like shit in my local area. We had full sirloins on sale (with the sirloin cap attached) recently as a buy one get one type deal, and we often had to throw them away after a few days because no one wanted them... bummer. Sirloins are actually pretty good if you're not a complete slouch cooking. They're also versatile. You can cook them almost any way you want and you can also grind it if need be and still get a reliable product.

As an off-cut/request, ox tail and cheek meat are also underrated for what they can be used for.

While I can't give discounts, I CAN do things like weigh/tag the fish after I've skinned it so they only pay for the fillet and not for the skin.

other times I'll put in an extra large tare on the scale but that's only for really, really nice customers.

I don't sell meat ya dingus

I do the same.

>Sirloin

My nigga. Top shelf stuff right there, can be cooked in any dish, a good 3-4 dollars cheaper per pound than a strip steak here.

Had a friend of mine that pretends to be cultured with good taste and only eats ribeyes he inspects himself "For the marbling" he says. He's a fucking idiot and only does this shit to seem like he has taste in public, so when I served him a nicely marinated sirloin with my own spice rub on there it kicked his ass halfway to sunday.

Most times you need to go through an apprenticeship. You often get paid shit (or nothing; if you're forced to shadow) for your backbreaking labor while learning. Most shops employ meat cutters now (people who know all the cuts, but could not break down a full animal if they needed to). You start by learning about the grinder, then you get to learn about chickens, then you learn more and more complex (and expensive) items.

If you're interested in getting into it, there's a few books I could recommend- even if you just want to do some cuts at home.

I more rather meant for bulk buying; there's a lot of people who gouge prices in my area. Perhaps it's not like that everywhere else though. If I have offended your portion of the trade, I apologize. Obviously work costs and other factors go into what things cost; and I understand that too. I just don't want to see people getting reamed or taken advantage of- perhaps haggle was the wrong word.

I am unsure of what you mean by a long ass ribeye, but I'll take a shot at what I think you're asking for. Let me know if I've missed the point.

If you're cooking the entirety at once, I typically don't advise allowing meat in the fridge for more than three days (as I cannot be sure of the environment the product will be in). If you buy a large portion of ribeye that was cut fresh that day and you plan to cut bits off of it to cook every night, you could definitely do that. Just be sure to keep an eye on its condition while it's in your refrigerator. Also, remember that the lovely shade of red it is when you buy it will disappear, but it doesn't necessarily mean that your meat has gone bad.

If you buy a ribeye and need to get through bone, I would recommend a butcher's hacksaw. Knives are not meant to cut through the bone. Often in a shop the cutters will use a bandsaw with a guided cut gauge when cutting bone-in meats to make sure that the thickness is uniform throughout the steak.

>specific cut that you can ruin
I feel this is related somewhat.

One of our most popular fish is salmon. We typically have some variety on sale every week (arctic keta this week.)The problem is, customers /hate/ the tail end for some nebulous reason that escapes me.
So, more often than not they'll ask me to cut the tail end off or give them a center cut fillet.
By the end of the night my salmon tray is 70% tail cuts that weigh from ~.15-.50 lbs that no one wants to buy, and thus I can't sell. I can't really do anything else with them, so they just sit there for a day at which point I have to throw them out.

It's incredibly annoying.

Ay don't worry about my feelings, I'm talking about people who come in and march right back into the department and start yelling at me in arabic that they want 1 package of whatever marked down 50% for no reason.

Haggling with bulk purchases is standard practice and I'd be crazy to not take a bit of the cost away on an order for 300 split chickens.

>The problem is, customers /hate/ the tail end for some nebulous reason

Holy shit I thought that was just where I worked! We usually just wind up packaging the tails separately in group packages for cheap, I buy them all the time. Joke's on them, the tails are just fine and are even a little sweeter. People that know what's up will come in and ask for them specifically.

Yeah... everyone in a meat department definitely has *at least* one of those customers stories. I think my favorite was that I had a woman order six 2 1/4 inch center cut fillet mignon steaks. I presented her with her order, and she complained that they were too thick, "obviously the work of a lesser employee, because these are not 2 1/4 inches". She demanded I take a half inch off of each steak. Now I have 1/2 inch fillet portions sitting beside 1 3/4 inch fillet steaks. This in itself, would have been alright (aside from the fact that no one around here wants 1/2 inch fillets at full price)- but she demanded again that they were too thick. I cut off another 1/4 inch and she decided that they were now correct, but due to us wasting her time she demanded to be compensated with a lower price. My manager told her to get the hell out of our store unless she paid regular price because now we've wasted over a pound of product for HER miscalculation in her order.

Needless to say she didn't back down and the owner came over to "fix" the situation. She got her steaks for free, and was also given the portions of steak (6 1/2 inch fillets and 6 1/4 inch fillets) to go along with her. INDIVIDUALLY WRAPPED, I might mention.

Gotta love that entitlement!

It works the same with fillet tails at my shop. It's delicious meat, excessively tender and takes well to seasoning... they just don't like the appearance or seeing "tail" or "ends" written on the package.

Just today i bought 2.2kgs of Angus rib eye from probably the best butchery in my city? Any recs on what to do with it? I'm not the best cook and have a very limited knowledge about cooking meat
Also how expensive is Angus and Wagyu ribeye in your shop? Shit is expensive af everywhere

People at my store are illiterate, and thus think we sell our .25lb halibut steaks at $11 a pound, when in actuality they're sold per steak.
Without fail they develop a smug demeanor and put on a shit-eating grin, like they're the Wolf of Grocery Stores

then they throw a fucking fit when I hand them a package of halibut and a tag for $125.

I would think salmon tails would be better because they're much more even and consistent in their sizes and each half is roughly equal in size/weight/thickness, so it'd cook more even and you wouldn't have an extra flap of skin (aka the belly) you'd have to cut off anyway.

Explain what you mean by being unsure about a long ass ribeye. Can't a ribeye steak be as long as the ribs of the animal and you partition it off depending how much i want to buy?

Is there a certain time of the month or whatever that is best to get good prices on meats? or what is the best price:quality ratio as far as cuts go? i've been buying a lot of it lately and would like to know if theres any way to save a bit more money

We actually only stock wagyu new york strips when we get any at all. Wagyu strips are approximately $45/lb. We also do not carry Angus beef as a general rule; instead we go by grading. If it happens to be Angus, all the better- but as a general rule it's grass and corn fed beefs from Canada. Everything is *at least* choice in our store, and we do not generally uncharge for prime meats that end up in the service case. If it's a special order for prime meat, we'll open up a case and pick the finest piece of the lot for your steaks- and if it meets prime grading standards, we will uncharge due to the fact that there are now four or five other pieces of the same meat that will need to be sold in a hurry in our regular cases.

Our ribeye steaks are typically around $16 or $17/lb. For what they are, it's usually a steal of a deal. That, and we will also cut to any thickness you want- whether it's a quarter inch, a six inch roast, or a whole ribeye.

As far as cooking, I would typically say that if you have a 2.2kg (almost a 5 pound) ribeye, that your best bet would be to cook it as a roast. I was always told "low and slow" is the best way to prepare a ribeye roast, however, I'm also do not possess a culinary degree- so it could be up to interpretation. I can say that rib roasts are devilishly good, and are most times purchased around major holidays (namely Christmas).

Other options include: a) bone the roast and make delmonico/boneless ribeye steaks and beef spare ribs, or b) french the rib bones and cut into thick "Texas Style" ribeyes.

That's what I figured you meant. We usually count by the rib or the thickness (measured in inches) rather than the length; I'm not sure that I've ever had a customer say, "I need a long ribeye" (e.g. "I need a six rib ribeye" or "I need a seven inch rib roast"). It's a small difference from what you said, but it's one of those stupid industry lingo deals. I just wanted to be sure I was thinking of the product in the same way that you were.

You can definitely have it be a full ribeye if you wanted or however many ribs you're looking to buy. At least, that's how it works at a full-service shop. Some locations don't have meat cutters in them and only sell pre-portioned sizes of meats/pre-trayed meats from their locations.

There's not really a better time to come into a shop than others unless you know their delivery schedule and it's a tried and true butcher shop like the olden days. Most shops employ older butchers, but almost everyone I've met under 40 has never worked with a real animal, just from the boxes which allow you to have the exact portion of the animal you're looking to cut.

Since the shelf life of shrink-wrapped meats can be up to two months, it's unlikely that you will ever find your local purveyor of beef at a disadvantage during that time that they'd need to do a major purge/sale.

If it is an old school local butcher and you know when his beef came in, you can typically figure out when his meats are starting to turn- that's when you'd want to pounce for an offer. It's better for him to take a slight cut and have a happy customer than for him to waste it all.

I think that the best cost/quality ratio in the animal has got to be the top butt sirloin (sirloin steak). Often you can find sirloin on sale under 8 dollars a pound, or at bogo prices in stores that render similar effects. If you get them, try to make sure they have their cap attached (sometimes called steakhouse sirloin, sometimes called sirloin strip, sometimes called sirloin cap steak). That is one of my favorite bits of the animal. Typically they feature good marbling, are quite tender, and have great flavor.

Sometimes you'll even see that cap piece on sale by itself in a package. If you see them at a similar price to the regular sirloin, jump on it and you won't regret it.

Ty senpai, much appreciated. I happen to live in Chile (south American meat is pretty good from what I've heard) so hopefully it will be good.

Additionally, some stores offer "reduced price" sections where the meat has lost its bloom (the red color that appears directly after cutting the steak and lasts for any odd length of hours). Once the bloom disappears and the steaks turn brownish, a lot of people scoff at them and write them off as spoiled or old. Believe it or not, some steaks can lose their bloom in less than a few hours if they are packaged too tightly or have other meats placed on top of their package (fillet mignon is a prime example of this).

Due to this trend in customer purchasing, some stores now have a small section (often slightly separated from other like product) where they will mark down items from the department that look less than the standard picture-perfect steaks should. This also applies in some stores to packages that are vacuum-sealed from their source (such as bacon). When there's a vacuum seal that isn't perfectly tight, they might make the reduced bin as well.

It's always worth a shot to see if your local shops have them. Especially if you know they were cut recently by someone in the back room. They're often honest if you ask them too- if it was cut a day or two ago, they'll likely tell you so; especially if it's in the bin and they want it sold!

Asian guy here. If there's a significant Asian population in your area, try selling them your salmon tails. If you're not finicky about eating particular parts of the fish, the heads and tails are great grilled or in stews.

do you guys tend to give away things like chicken heads and stuff for free or at least under five bucks. just any super discarded pieces no one wants. I want to ask my local butcher for some but I'm embarrassed to ask

yeah, this too, are there any like...super cheap cuts that might be interesting to eat that are usually just discarded/go unpurchased? I know that i can get beef suet, all the little fat trimmings, for 99c a lb most places but are there any other things like that? i'd love to try some new things

Not him, but the only novelty cuts sold at most supermarkets would probably be feet/gizzards, both of which are not nearly as cheap as you'd think.

Better off getting some pork on discount.

they also make good stocks

Unfortunately my shop deals largely in pork and beef, therefore there aren't many chicken parts to go around. We often discount cuts that aren't up to our standards, but nothing is ever free. We are one of the shops that use a discounted pricing area for anything that doesn't meet our requirements of a quality product for our customer.

That being said, SOME butchers do keep a 'toss bin' near their blocks that they will keep their fat and other 'undesired' bits in. I've been told that they will offer those items at a low rate, but nothing is really free anymore. It used to be that chicken feet, pig trotters, and chicken wings (yes, wings) used to be free because they were plentiful and no-one wanted them. But, since we live in the time of the almighty dollar, it's almost impossible to get freebies.

Marrow bones and knuckle bone are still relatively cheap if you're looking to extract marrow for spreading/eating or if you're looking to make a hearty beef broth. I think they can still be had at less than $3/lb.

The cheapest things I can think of that are available locally (aside from buying from the trim/fat bin), are probably all pork cuts. Almost all beef cuts, offal, etc. manage to get decent money. I think I've seen beef liver on sale for 1.99/lb a few times this year, but that's a rarity.

We regularly have pork for sale in the $2 range, but our premium pork cuts are around $7/lb. I know that's high for pork- but it's worth it. "Assorted" pork chops/variety chops, bone-in country style ribs and boneless country style ribs are decent meats that often show up in sales bins or go on sale. However, since people aren't as familiar with them they are sometimes not sold quickly... I'm not sure what your pricing is, but we drop those into the ~$2/lb range here.

I'll try to think of some other cuts as I'm at work today and get back to you if there are more I'm not thinking of.

what makes for the best pork chop?
ya know, the fried w/breadng kind
ty

also why cant I ever find pork bones for broth?

>the owner came over to "fix" the situation
>an owner undercutting their management staff like that

WEW LAD
E
W

L
A
D

this is the one thing I hate about America. Jesus fuck we need to FORCE our children to work a shitty customer service job for 6 months before they are allowed to graduate from highschool.

Pork chops are similar to beef cuts. The "pork loin" and the "short loin" are the same thing; just one is pork and one is beef.

That being said, the loin chop is the same as the porterhouse steak while the rib chop is the same as the t-bone steak.

Pork "sirloin chops" are the same as top butt sirloin (sirloin steak) from a steer.

The quick definition- loin chops (porterhouse) and rib chops (t-bones) are both tender and are essential the pork deviation of the New York Strip. Rib chops are with less (or no) pork tenderloin, and loin chops have a larger medallion of pork tenderloin (the same as fillet mignon for beef). These chops are what are considered as "white pork" by many.

The pork sirloin chop is considered by some to be "white and dark" because it has darker coloration in the lower center of the chop. They are also tender and are typically an economical purchase (just as the beef sirloin steak is).

If you're going to be flattening/tenderizing, breading, and frying the chops, I'd recommend using bits of the pork sirloin because it's inexpensive and still tasty. If you have money to burn, you could always use a thin-cut boneless pork loin chop and pound it out/tenderize it. A good shop will send anything you want through the tenderizer for free- so try to see if they'll do it for you. (We call these pork cutlets; then you can bread and pan/deep fry them at home).

I too have noticed an absence of pork bones in most stores. We carry them, but they're rare for most stores. As much of the pork bone as possible is left in the chops and roasts for extra weight. The bone also adds extra flavor, so it makes sense to leave them in the chops and roasts. Most times when you see a boneless roast (especially shoulder roasts), it arrived almost exactly like what it appears (without bone but possibly with a little more fat)- so there are no bones to put in the cases. You could always try pricing it at your local shop and placing an order if it's applicable.

This is a tough question to formulate, but what precautions or recommendations can you give about the color of the meat in packaging and if you should buy it?

A local supermarket seems to have recently started offering some meat that I would assume is not worth purchasing because of the outside color.

Thank you incredibly for the incredibly in depth response

I'll try to keep all that info in my noggin as I hit up my butcher next

The butcher will return around 8PM EST. Leave your questions in the thread and I will get to them when I return.

Sorry that I am unable to get back to you in a reasonable timeframe- I'm headed into work now. I'll give you a good answer to your question when I return home for the evening.

I'm glad I could be of service. Let me know if there's anything else I can help you with.

>he answered sirloin

If you don't know top sirloin then you don't know shit to begin with. The correct answer is chuck eye. Loads of flavor and cheap to boot.

I want to Cook Wiener Schnitzel but cant find any veal escalope meat in the Markets. Whats the closest to it that i Can get?

I'm not the butcher but I'm back

The butcher is in. Sorry I'm back a bit later than anticipated, but I'll be around tonight to answer questions again.

The coloration of meat is actually a pretty tricky and in depth topic of conversation. Basically, there are four different stages to meat in a typical grocery store. First, there's the color directly out of the cryo-vac: this color is a dark brown and is the color of the muscle before oxygen comes into contact with it. By the time you're done cutting your steaks, it's likely the meat will begin to enter the second (and most desirable stage). Second, the meat enters what is known as the bloom stage. The bloom is the hearty red coloration that the typical consumer has come to know as "fresh meat". Depending on the steak, its environment, and some other factors, this can last for hours up to a day or so. The third stage that follows is the return to a brownish/redish brown coloration. This does not mean that the meat is bad- in fact it is merely part of the natural cycle of the coloration of the meat. The fourth stage, and the one to watch out for- is the greying and greening of meat. In a store, greening meat or meat that has lost all coloring characteristics are put in a reduced area or are thrown out. Another possibility includes the potential for grinding... which is not done at reputable stores, but can happen at certain locations.

In theory, even into the last stage it is possible that the meat can be cooked- though it would need to be well done toward the last stage and it would be wise to trim the exterior of the meat before cooking. You wouldn't have to, but it would be safer from a food perspective.

The short answer to your question is the following: If the meat is red or reddish brown, you're definitely in the clear. If it's starting to lose all coloration, it could still be safe so long as it's within three days of when the meat was cut and you plan to cook it that day.

I answered sirloin because it often goes on sale in my area (and I assume others as well) for about $6 a pound or for sale as a buy one get one offer for a similar rate when the package prices are scaled out.

The chuck del/chuck eye steak is a steak that you get approximately two of per chuck roll, and it rarely even gets put out in the case at all. That being said, the regular price is also around $7/lb, and it almost never goes on sale. For the rate of sale that the top butt sirloin and sirloin cap steaks go on sale, I say they're the better bargain- especially knowing that they're almost always accessible.

From a pure culinary perspective, chuck meats are extremely flavorful due to their larger percentage of fat to their meat ratio- so it's true that they are very flavorful cuts.

The term escalope really just means that it's a thinly cut (pounded out) and boneless piece of veal. You could take almost any cut of veal you'd like to make Wiener Schnitzel- though I was always told a veal cutlet was what you really wanted. Veal cutlets at most of the local stores around where I live come from the top round, and is typically between 1/4 inch and 1/3 of an inch thick. You can pound it out further if you'd like and then bread it to make your schnitzel.

Let me know if you need another cut of veal to work with.

I like to use chuck for stew and chili. usually I cut the Y shaped piece of fat out and then cube the rest of the meat, but sometimes instead of being a solid chunk there's just a bunch of slimy connective tissue barely holding the meat together. sometimes there's extremely tough sheets of gray shit stuck in there too. did I just pick out a bad roast when that happens? how do I identify a good one that's easy to cut up?

Pretty much every steak or roast that you buy in stores is made up of multiple muscles. The chuck chuck roast is one of the roasts that are made of multiple parts. Each part that you are finding that is separated by connective tissue is one of the individual muscles that makes up the whole piece. Depending on the life of the animal, different levels of fat will be present (or not present) in different areas of the chuck roll (the piece that your chuck roast comes from). Another factor to consider, is where from the chuck roll your steak is coming from. Pic related is a late cut chuck roast, and looks different from what you've shown.

There's a lot that goes into selecting your meat at the store depending on how you're looking to cook it or use it.

To answer your question, it's not necessarily a bad roast- it's just likely from a different grade of cattle (or cattle from a different producer) than some of the "better" ones you're getting. The other likely possibility is that you're getting chuck roasts from different areas of the chuck roll.

To answer your last question, I'd like to know where you're getting your meat so I can try identify what grade of meat you're buying. That way I can help you select the best roast for your buck.

usually I get my meat from walmart because I'm in one of those food deserts and it's the only place within walking distance, but the last one I got that didn't seem very good was from a fairly up scale regional grocery store. usually I try to pick out one that has a bigger long part since it seems better for cutting up for stew, but that time the ones on the display were all too big so I asked the person at the counter to bring me a smaller one so I didn't get to choose.

Interesting. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience at your (more or less) local grocer.

I tend not to trust Wal-Mart's meats due to many reports I've seen that mention the use of carbon dioxide in their packaging (helps prolong the bloom/redness of the meat, even if the steaks are getting old) in addition to their "enhanced with 15% solution" that used to be on their packaging (not sure if it's still there or not). That solution can be more than just water, but I'm not sure if this is still a common practice with their meats or not.

I am also not completely sold on Wal-Mart's "choice" grading- but perhaps that's just me.

All of that being said (and my possible bigotry for their products) if I was going to buy a chuck roast, I would look for one like the picture I've attached. I haven't had any Wal-Mart meats due to my work over the years, as meat has never been far from reach- so I cannot say for sure that their product is truly inferior. I know the price lines up right for many people, so I'm not going to knock it too hard.

If you're looking for stewing cubes, you could always use a bottom round/rump/top round too. The meat will have less marbling/flavor, but it's a lot of meat to eat. It's just another option if you're looking for savings whenever any of the meats are on sale.

The beef cubes/stewing cubes we sell are made from top sirloin, but the price certainly reflects that as well...

I used to use top round, but I didn't like how sometimes it would have these cracks or something all through it and would fall apart while I was trying to cube it. I like using this circled part since it's firm and usually has some good fat in it.

Yeah, that's something to watch out for with a top round. It falls apart into 3 sections depending on where it came off the whole piece (marked in picture).

If you decide to use it again sometime, I'd recommend separating the pieces out before you start cubing. That way you can also trim/clean it before the cubes enter their cooking vessel.

The part you have circled is definitely a good tasting bit of chuck though. That section of muscle definitely holds together better than the lower section. I could show you the breakdown of the muscles in the chuck if you're interested.

How much for a whole pig 100% prepared for roasting?

How odd, the tail is the best piece imho.

From what I've seen, the going rate for a whole pig (120lbs or more) prepared for grilling/bbq is about $2.49/lb around where I live. Depending on where you live, I'd assume the price could be anywhere from $2-3/lb. Typically, the smaller the animal, the more it costs per pound- so if you've got a larger gathering you might have a better deal coming your way.

Then again, it also matters if you have the right kind of farmers in your area or how friendly they or the butchers in your area are to work with. Sometimes they don't like to sell to anyone that isn't a wholesaler or a butcher shop... other times you find some farmers or breeders that are looking to sell some animals off the books ("oh, that pig died, it was a terrible loss for the farm"; while they pocket your untaxed dollars). Most farms are honest though, so I wouldn't imagine you'd find a farm that does that around where you live- but I know I've heard some tales around here...

are you the same butcher thats been posting here for years? Seem to remember a butcher when i browsed here like 4 years ago

Indeed. I come pretty infrequently, and post much more rarely, but I do browse from time to time. Still have my old trip if I needed it- but I don't see many people posting with tripcodes anymore... I figured a general name would be good enough.

Pic related- it's a old picture of a deer in one of my friend's garages ready to be parted out that was a bump for an old thread.

I didn't mean that the round was breaking into 3 big pieces, I meant that the meat fibers were pulling apart like it was already cooked corned beef. you can kind of see it in this picture.

Thanks. Me and a few friends wanted to put together a feast/potluck and the centerpoint was going to be a whole pig.

I know a place that sells pigs ready to cook, I'll call them tomorrow.

Wait it's acceptable to haggle with your butcher? I never knew butchers were haggleable

I regret posting it the way I did in my first post. It was more for bartering the price for BULK items, such as a full case of boneless ribeyes or for a case of top butt sirloins, etc.

A full-on haggle is *rarely* acceptable at any butcher shop or grocery store. The only people I know that barter/haggle on pricing is for the return of physical work- and then they'll take that money off of your total price.

For example, there's an old butcher shop close to where I live that the old man will pay you $10/hr or meat of equal value if you're willing to scrub down his block, his floors, and apply fresh sawdust after he's done working for the day. Trust me- it's better to just pay him what he wants. It's backbreaking work.

Best of luck.

I completely misunderstood your last post then- I apologize. I know exactly what you're talking about now. It happens sometimes. There's only one way you're meant to cut certain pieces of meat- there's a grain to the meat, and the meat also moves in the way the muscles moved in the body. Therefore, some cuts will tear themselves apart because you're going against the natural movement of the muscle you're cutting.

I'm headed out for the night. If there's more interest in the thread overnight I will return tomorrow to answer your questions.

You sometimes gotta literally go to every shop, large and small that you can find, and ask about starting internships

If they ain't sick of you by the end, there's a chance of getting hired, that's how I started up

Denver butcher of still fair newness

What do you think is the better way of cutting thin bones, a cleaver or a bone saw? I have relatively poor coordination so I don't usually like using cleavers, so I use a saw

But in your experience which make a cleaner cut with less fragments and bone dust to clean off?

Having started off with lamb and chicken, it fucking infuriates me when I see "contains up to 15 percent salt solution* in certain chains' chicken selections *cough*I'm looking at you Kroger and "Heritage"

Whats the solution they put in chicken? Does it cook out?

I want to get like 120 chicken legs and or thighs, is that considered bulk? How much should I expect to pay for that? At the grocery store chicken leg quarters are less expensive would it be the same at a butcher shop?

>I think my favorite was that I had a woman order six 2 1/4 inch center cut fillet mignon steaks.

By God customer interaction :/

From the opposite view, I often get asked something the equivalent of "you know that 2 1/4 is this thick right" and I want to go "I know how big an inch is you dense fucker" but if you're dealing with customers like that, I can understand if you want to make sure I'm not a retard before you start cutting.

>"enhanced with 15% solution"

Locally (not walmart) this is called "Neutral Marinade" and it gets on my tits something fierce. If I buy a pound of chicken, I want a pound of chicken, not 85 percent of a pound of chicken and then 15% of a pound of salt water.

Good morning Veeky Forums- the butcher is in.

Good words on getting into the trade- that's definitely a viable method.

In regards to your question about working with thin bones, the cleaner cut comes from a saw, but the saw also generates additional bone debris that needs to be cleaned up. If your bone is small enough and thin enough that you feel safe cleaving it, I would suggest doing so. If the bone is a quarter inch thick or greater, I find that the saw is a better practice to keep a straight line and an even cut. Unfortunately, that means you have to deal with the bone dust and cleaning them afterward.

A quick note about dusting/keying your meat after sawing- are you familiar with the natural grain of each of your meats? There's only one way to properly clean each muscle as dictated by the fibers of the muscle. When you're working it the right way, it will clean faster and the steak will have a much more pleasant appearance in the case. Each muscle and steak is different though, so it will take some time getting used to.

Starting with lamb is a rarity- awesome stuff. Chicken is definitely where I got my start. Breaking down chickens, boning out breasts, splitting whole breasts, removing keel bones, etc. Then I went to the grinder, then pork, then beef, and only later on did I even get to consider working with Veal and Lamb.

"Solution" is a stupid term anyway that allows an excessively large amount of fluids to be present... I guess it's easier for legal reasons- but it also aggravates me to see it listed on packaging; especially if it's a LARGE percentage of the weight.

The type of solution depends on where your chicken comes from and how the processing and packaging works at their plant. Often the solutions are water-based or partially au jus and water based. Sometimes they also have salt added. Did you ever notice that there is a pad under most pieces of chicken you've ever purchased from packaging? That piece of material is also called a diaper in the profession, and its modern job is essentially to soak up all of that extra weight that is being added to the packing (additionally, it helps keep any fluids from the package from slopping out into the main floor; which was the industry's traditional rationale behind using them).

Therefore, most times when you're cooking your products, you don't even need to worry about it cooking out or any other way of removing it from your chicken, as the fluid has already been absorbed by the padding underneath your product.

120 chicken legs and/or thighs is typically not considered bulk, as bulk pricing is often indicated by "case pricing". This is also where major price breaks tend to happen. The less processing or work the store needs to do to sell you something, the happier they are and the easier they are to work with. Typically a bulk case of chicken at a grocery store or supermarket is approximately 40 pounds of product (fryers and some other pieces may weigh more, but that's not pertinent to your question).

I'm not sure of which region you're in, but I would reckon if you were willing to get 40 pounds worth of legs or thighs, you'd probably be able to get them for around $1.00/lb. I'd call around to a few places and see what kind of deal you can get- I know chicken is pretty cheap right now in my locale, but I cannot guarantee that everywhere.

(cont. in next post)

(You)
The reason leg quarters are less expensive is because there is a segment of the back on it that the whole legs do not have; nor is found on the legs or thighs individually. Leg quarters would also be cheaper at the butcher, but most of the butcher shops I know deal largely with pork and beef since chicken is "the meat with the most problems". Just as it takes a lot of pieces to get the weight you need, it too takes a lot of time to cut those pieces for the showcase. For this reason, some of our local butchers have raised their chicken prices so that they do not need to order as much to fill the customer need. However, at the same time they are getting even more money per pound to sell meat that they were already intending on stocking- so they're winning out pretty well. My honest opinion is that a grocery store with a somewhat decent meat department (service counter; not just self-serve) would probably be able to get what you need at a pretty fair rate even compared to a local butcher. However, if you have a local butcher works on a farm or works with local farms, chances are that would be your best bet. You tell him when you want it, he gets it all together for you that morning... doesn't get any more fresh than that.

Indeed. Remember though- "the customer is never wrong" (as said by some picky customer and for some reason it stuck to the industry like flies to shit).

I've never heard of that being called "neutral marinade" before. I'll have to keep that under my hat. Thanks for adding to my terminology user. It's definitely dog crap though that the final weight is dictated by the amount of fluids in the pad underneath everyone's chicken, but if it's prepackaged there's nothing anyone can do about it. That's why it's so cool to find local shops, stores, or butchers that have pieces on ice ready to go without any additional packaging. Sometimes they even wrap them in parchment instead of bagging them for an old feel.

The reason leg quarters are less expensive is because there is a segment of the back on it that the whole legs do not have; nor is found on the legs or thighs individually. Leg quarters would also be cheaper at the butcher, but most of the butcher shops I know deal largely with pork and beef since chicken is "the meat with the most problems". Just as it takes a lot of pieces to get the weight you need, it too takes a lot of time to cut those pieces for the showcase. For this reason, some of our local butchers have raised their chicken prices so that they do not need to order as much to fill the customer need. However, at the same time they are getting even more money per pound to sell meat that they were already intending on stocking- so they're winning out pretty well. My honest opinion is that a grocery store with a somewhat decent meat department (service counter; not just self-serve) would probably be able to get what you need at a pretty fair rate even compared to a local butcher. However, if you have a local butcher works on a farm or works with local farms, chances are that would be your best bet. You tell him when you want it, he gets it all together for you that morning... doesn't get any more fresh than that.

Indeed. Remember though- "the customer is never wrong" (as said by some picky customer and for some reason it stuck to the industry like flies to shit).

I've never heard of that being called "neutral marinade" before. I'll have to keep that under my hat. Thanks for adding to my terminology user. It's definitely dog crap though that the final weight is dictated by the amount of fluids in the pad underneath everyone's chicken, but if it's prepackaged there's nothing anyone can do about it. That's why it's so cool to find local shops, stores, or butchers that have pieces on ice ready to go without any additional packaging. Sometimes they even wrap them in parchment instead of bagging them for an old feel.

Is it true that Americans cut the skin off of their pork joints?

Most of our pork cuts are indeed without the skin. Some local charcuterie and butcher shops leave a layer of skin, but most stores that sell to the general public remove skin from all but a few select cuts. Sometimes picnic shoulders still have skin on them though. Pork belly is often sold with some skin on as well. Aside from that, however, it does seem that most of the cuts (at least locally) are sold without skin.

how long can i store porterhouse in the fridge for (

disregard that. i found out for myself.

Our coolers are set to approximately 1ºC to prolong the life of the meat that we sell. The closer you can keep your refrigerator to that level, the better. However, that being said, if you're keeping it at around 39ºF (4ºC) or less, the general agreement in the culinary world is that larger steaks/roasts (often thicker too) will keep for approximately 3 to 5 days. I almost always recommend that you cook your meat by the end of the third day just as a precaution. You can never know how long that meat has been sitting on the shelf unless you saw the meat cut specifically for you.

The fourth day is a possibility, but I find it to be a little sketchy. Make sure you examine the quality of the meat, check for odors, and make sure that it stays as far from the front of the refrigerator as possible during its refrigeration. The items closer to the front will be exposed to warmer air every time the door opens, so the likelihood of spoiling/aging prematurely increases the closer it is to the front of the fridge (or the further it is away from your cooling unit of the fridge).

Eating meat after the fourth day, in my professional opinion, is taking a risk. You should be sure to cook the meat fully by that time. As unfortunate as it is to cook a steak well done, it's a lot better than getting food poisoning or other sicknesses from trusting a steak that got too old.

Thanx for the response.
>approximately 1ºC
>The closer you can keep your refrigerator to that level, the better.
If kept at that temp, how many extra days are added to the 3-5 default? I mean, like just a few or something more radical like a week or so?

I have a compartment at the top of my fridge where, if I put frozen meat in ther it won't defrost for days so I'm guessing that's about 1°Cish.

>If kept at that temp, how many extra days are added to the 3-5 default? I mean, like just a few or something more radical like a week or so?

I'm not the butcher, but from my studies of this topic the difference in time is HUGE. 3 degrees C is the magic number. Below that temperature the bacteria which cause spoilage pretty much shut down. They grow incredibly slowly.

Modernist cuisine has a great section on this towards the end of the first volume. They compared the bacterial content on raw chicken at different fridge temps. Above 3 C the chicken reached a certain threshold of bacteria within 4 days. Below 3 C it took THIRTY days.

Keep in mind that there are so many variables here that it's impossible to state any sort of hard-and-fast rule. Instead, learn to look for the signs of bad meat. Look at it. Smell it. Touch it and see if it's slimy. You will know instantly if the meat has gone bad--there is no mistaking the smell of spoiled meat.

How did you get the job?

>Above 3 C the chicken reached a certain threshold of bacteria within 4 days. Below 3 C it took THIRTY days.
Wow, that's quite a difference, and handy to know. Thanx!

Yeah, I always smell my meat before cooking it but I've noticed it goes brown in time and that's when I get worried. It still smells ok but I intentially cook it to well done status for peace of mind.
Basically I try to avoid freezing meat so I'll buy four steaks and put them in the super-cold compartment and eat one each day, taking it out of there on onto the bottom shelf on that morning.

Haven't died yet so something must be working.

What this user said is very true. The closer you get to the freezing line, the longer meat has the POTENTIAL to last. However, due to my training from older butchers, we still say that 5 days is the absolute maximum amount of time we trust the meat for. While not all meats will last 4 or 5 days in a regular refrigerator that is set at higher temperatures (4ºC isn't terrible), ALMOST all meats will last 5 days at 1ºC if the environment is conducive and the temperature remains constant for your meats.

Think about it this way- it's not adding extra time to your product life; it's almost guaranteeing that it WILL survive for that given shelf life.

Definitely think about looking for the signs of bad meat, as suggested by . It's important to understand what causes degradation/spoiling of meat for more reasons than one, so it's always something that's useful to learn more about. If not only for yourself, for your guests and visitors when you serve them.

The other benefit to our refrigerators is that our fan systems also pull out additional moisture from our areas- so there is a much lesser chance of additional bacterial growth. There's reason some of those refrigerators are so damn expensive- but it's to make sure that our customers don't get sick from negligence.

I started out at a grocery store under some old cutters. They thought I was a punk at first, and didn't trust me. Over the time I was there I gained their trust and they began to like me. I learned a lot of old school techniques from them until I was able to do the cuts in the store. From there, I learned the anatomy of the animal and began to process game for friends and family. Once you know how to process one legged animal, you know how to process most of them. Chickens were one of the first things I learned though, so it was easy to transfer that to game birds and poultry as well.

I now work at a better location since the old butchers left other location.

Turning brown is meaningless. Meat contains chemicals which interact with oxygen in the air. That's what determines the color--how much air the meat is in contact with. You can take a piece of brown meat, put it outside the fridge (unwrapped, of course) and it will burn red again. This is called "blooming" in the industry. Red meat is only "red" after exposure to oxygen in the air.

I should have said "Chickens were one of the first things I learned though, so it was easier to transfer that knowledge to game birds and turkeys as well."

Sorry for the typo.

I would have probably stayed at that location if the older butchers were all still there- but the store didn't treat them well and they left to either retire or go to a different company. I was never given a raise to be a cutter, so I was just demanded to do the cuts for a lower wage. I got tired of my mistreatment, and took my knives elsewhere. Aside from that, it was a great job and I learned a lot. The store was also a great place to work- I was just miffed about the payment issue and the extra responsibilities I had to take on that really weren't my duty under my pay scale or work classifications.

Ah, so it's the wrapping in a plastic bag that makes it go brown? I might take one out of the bag next time, to get to room temp, and see what happens.

I thought the exposure to oxygen would make it go bad.

Thanx for responding. Haven't read (slow reader) it yet but thanx in advance.

read it now. Many thanx! I learned about moisture management.

"What do you call a butcher who has all of his fingers?"

"Apprentice."

I just want to say thank you so very much for the detailed and informative responses. You guys have helped me a lot and I'm very grateful for the education.

Who buys london broils anyway? They're tedious to cook and not that great, and are often more expensive or the same price as superior cuts.

This is right more or less, but once the meat has bloomed a few times (it will have already done it once by the time it gets packaged), it enters a state where oxidation takes hold. Once the exterior meat has fully oxidized, it will not return to a red color no matter how much oxygen it is exposed to. However, cutting even a 1/16 of an inch off the top of the steak would allow the lower level to bloom again... meat theory man- crazy shit.

Putting meat in tray packs actually traps oxygen in with the meat for a certain duration- so it helps keep the bloom active until the exterior of the meat oxidizes. Excessive exposure to oxygen will turn it brown and you would need to shave off the exterior of the meat (much like aged beef) in order to see the red color appear again.

Did you hear about the butcher who sat on his grinder?

--> He got a little behind in his work.

Typically the people who buy London broils/top round steaks in my area are using them for other purposes than just steaks/roasts (such as making beef jerky or beef cubes for kabobs). Either that, or they intend to marinade them for a day or two before throwing it on the grill low and slow.

London broils are priced accordingly in my area, and are cheaper than sirloins and other, more tender, steaks and roasts.

Market demands are weird some places though...

Long time lurker, first time poster. (You and Fuck Flour are the only namefags that actually provide legit quality to the board. Thanks for posting.)

Why hasn't the meat industry standardized the names of shit? Like a chuck roast is also known as a chuck eye roast, chuck pot roast, etc. They don't think this won't be confusing to the consumer?

Glad to hear you're enjoying the thread. I know I don't make many, but I try to answer as many questions as possible when I do.

To be perfectly honest with you, I ask myself the same question almost every day I go into work. I can shed a little light onto the subject for you though.

One issue is regional sales. It's the same reason you can ask for a soda some places and they have it listed as pop. Or the same reason you can't ask for bull testicles in a store most places- you have to ask for mountain oysters or Rocky Mountain oysters. Beats the hell out of me why we can't just say what it is and call it a day...

The big ones for me when I first started my newer job were that we used the same naming methodology for pork cuts that we did for beef. Pork new york strips, pork top loin chops... things like that.

In addition to regional sales, naming gets changed because certain parts of the muscles are removed for one cut, so the cut of a same name looks different. Baseball sirloins are never sold in my area, nor are Denver steaks, and even rarely (unfortunately) tri-tip steaks. We use the muscles differently, so the name of the cut is different as well.

We don't sell just regular sirloins at work, instead we have to call them full-cut, fillet, strip, and other names... It's confusing, but it gives an EXACT name to the muscles you're getting for dinner.

The problem that you're probably thinking of is when you go into a store for that sirloin steak and it says "top sirloin butt" or "full cut boneless sirloin" or "Steakhouse sirloin"- while the cut is either completely the same, or it is only slightly varied. I really don't get it either man.

The USDA does have names for everything, but due to old school cutting and "new" cuts being developed over the years, some of those steaks, roasts, and even sub primals can have completely different naming across the board.

Unfortunately, I feel it would just be too hard to get the same labeling across the US.

this thread is extremely interesting

wish i knew how to condense the whole thread in to one image once it 404s

It makes me happy to know that people actually appreciate the thread. I know butchery is certainly not for everyone, and that many people find the process appalling- so it's nice to see people that are interested in the subject.

I have no idea how to condense it all, but you could always save as a web archive to your computer. I have some of my old threads saved that way just in case. I haven't posted here in a long time- but maybe I should start making a thread every other week or something.

I won't bother everyone if they're uninterested though- it's not my goal to take up space on the board if it's not a popular or important topic for at least a moderate portion of the user basis.

nah dude, this kind of stuff is chill.

I have called every butcher shop in my area and fucking cannot get anyone to sell me chicken skin.
what the fuck is up with that.
Do you lucky bastards just take it all home?

That's actually pretty weird- especially if they're traditional butcher shops. Some of the modern retailers (Wal-Mart and the like) have chicken products, but they do not have chicken skin available because their meats come in pre-packed. When I was boning and skinning chickens at my first job, no one wanted the skins and there would probably be 20-30 pounds of it taken off of the whole fryers before the end of the day that was just sitting in a bucket ready to be thrown in the composter at the end of the day. We would have gladly sold that stuff.

Believe it or not, I don't eat any skin myself. I know it's rich, crunchy when cooked right, and flavorful to boot- something about it just gets me though, and I'm unable to eat it. My palate definitely has some texture and sensitivity issues- my loss though..

What kinds of shops have you been looking for your chicken skins at? Maybe I can help you figure something out to get you some chicken skins.

I live in SoCal, so there arent many local butchers. I yelp/googled 5-6 local butcher shops and called them to ask, and have asked a couple of meat sellers at my local farmers markets as well.
They all either said no or treated me like i was asking for something theyve never even heard of.

Im primarily looking to collect schmaltz from it, and was looking to pick up at least 5 pounds.

Where about in SoCal?
I may be able to help.

$20+/lb for American """Kobe""" flatiron steak. Reasonable or fucking insane?

I live in orange/ work in irvine
so really anywhere in orange county