# What's the point?

What's the point?
Humans have spent the last 60 million years carefully adapting to life at EXACTLY this pressure/temperature/chemical compilations and now you want to go into a sub-zero vacuum full of deadly cosmic radiation and material debris whizzing around at 100 miles a second? Just to satisfy some mundane curiosity about the PH levels of the soil on Mars?

What a fucking joke. Only NEET's with no concept of the vastness of space think interstellar travel is feasible, the few deluded schmucks too busy fapping to alien waifus to realize the futility of it all.

This isn't like mastering the ocean, a broad expanse of salt-water in a buoyant hunk of wood. This isn't like conquering the low-oxygen altitudes of the mountaintops with a \$80 Parka you bought at Walmart. This is an infinitesimal expanse of fucking nothing but some dead rocks, gaseous wastes and incomprehensible pinpricks of condenses fusion. I am so goddamn sick of pot-brained burnouts thinking we can just toast this planet and fuck off to Mars with nothing more than a potted tomato plant.

Wake the fuck up.

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That's funny because fedorafags are exactly the type the think that if we didn't have Region holding us back then he'd be busy banging some blue-skinned cutie on the outer rim of Neptune.

>tfw Earth gets 0.01% of the energy output from the Sun and this powers all kinetic motion on earth

Kek, we're like some sort of parasitic worm living off of the fucking errant spit of a passing entity. And we think we can make claim to the cosmos around us - pretentious.

>adapting to life at EXACTLY this pressure
Actually, humans can survive in pressure several times greater or less quite reasonably, provided that the gas mixture is appropriate to the pressure. The inhabitants of Sealab spent several weeks at approximately 100 psia, and astronauts of Skylab did the same at just ~5 psia.

>Surviving is the same as existing with zero complications

Thanks for weighing in, reddit. ;)

>Humans have spent the last 60 million years carefully adapting to life at EXACTLY this pressure/temperature/chemical compilations

Within that time, the balance on Earth has changed drastically in all those senses. Humans - like everything else on Earth - are the cutting edge of evolution. Nothing has stayed static for those sixty million years.

>and now you want to go into a sub-zero vacuum full of deadly cosmic radiation and material debris whizzing around at 100 miles a second?

Life decided things would be better with tons of free oxygen, at sub 100C temperatures, with UV shining down on it, traveling at several hundred miles an hour ten thousand feet in the air.

Life is insane.

>Just to satisfy some mundane curiosity about the PH levels of the soil on Mars?

No - to survive past the death of life on Earth, and to consciously play a part in evolution.

>This is an infinitesimal expanse of fucking nothing but some dead rocks, gaseous wastes and incomprehensible pinpricks of condenses fusion

I see land I can mine, and infinite territory to make my own law in.

>I am so goddamn sick of pot-brained burnouts thinking we can just toast this planet and fuck off to Mars with nothing more than a potted tomato plant

The people who control Earth want things to continue forever as they are. Those without control dream of being kings off world.

I'm not interesting in kissing the feet of the elite for eternity - I want to go away and make the rest of humanity irrelevent to my existance.

What kind of sad loser wants his species to die with their home planet?

>to survive past the death of life on Earth,
>die with their home planet?

This is the big problem with you fedora types, you think 50 years of some factory venting waste into a river is going to damage an ecosystem 64 million years in the making. Is it pure human ego or some strange new for of cuckdom to think big-dick corporations can somehow put a dent in mother earth.

>Is it pure human ego or some strange new for of cuckdom to think big-dick corporations can somehow put a dent in mother earth.
Lol, nope.
Just look how many species we've hunted to extinction.
We've more than capable of fucking shit up.

>No species on earth has gone extinct before humans showed up
>Humans invented the katana, they're the masters of destruction!

Alright kiddo.

Jesus, you're an idiot.
Go back to /b/ and download more pictures of underage boys in drag.
Lots of species have gone extinct before we showed up.
That still doesn't change the fact that we have killed off plenty of species.
Oh, and "an ecosystem 64 million years in the making"?

retard

Look, if you're still going to troll or act retarded, that's fine.
- Swear
- Ad hominem; Call people names
- Don't provide counter-arguments
- Reject realism and the scientific consensus
That's ok.
Just don't loop.
Looping is cancer.

Personal incredulity and the argument from ignorance are fallacies. You're ignorant.
You imply you have no knowledge of the other kinds, therefore they don't exist.
That is wrong irrational.
:D

I don't blame him, he grew up with Star Trek and Mass Effect. He's prefer easy lies and fappable alien babes to the grim harsh realities.

shut the fuck up, why the fuck would you nonchalantly agree like this to a retarded pasta? I like to rile people up but jesus christ you're a fucking braindead moron

OP confirmed for muslim.

OP: good points. The more one learns about the universe in general, the more it becomes apparent that it is rather senseless to try and travel away from earth. And who would want to leave earth anyway? Living in Haiti, which is so resource-starved that people eat mud sandwiches just to at least have a full stomach for a change, would be absolute paradise compared to anywhere else in the universe. Living in Antarctica or the middle of a desert would be infinitely more hospitable than any other planet or a space station. If anything, we'll start shopping out the poor and move out ghettos into space because nobody who has any clout is going to move there voluntarily.

That's the sad thing, space is so romanticized that your average person would sooner see a trillion dollars spent on a centrifugal space station instead of turning the Sahara into a lush forest.

NEET bitches are so caught up with the imagery of 'kewl space battles' that they don't spare a thought for having to recycle waste into vacuum-sealed containers, suffer from steadily fraying blood vessels and live through their goddamn bones degrading away in zero-g environments.

>space travel
>mundane
Lrn2mundane

Why you might sound overdramatic and pretentious to some, in the gist of it you're right.

To add to it, we're not only dependent on the specific raw physical conditions we find on Earth (like low atmosphere composition, pressure, temperature, gravity, presence of a magnetic field protecting from solar wind, presence of an ozone layer protecting from UV radiaton, avaliability of water, etc.). We are also entirely dependent on the ecosystem which has been evolving on this planet for billions of years. As the most evolved creatures, we seem, as a matter of fact, to be the most dependent on it, as we sit at the top of a very long and complicated food chain.

So yes, moving elsewhere off this planet and being able to survive long-term withouth some uber-convoluted and insanely expensive contraptions (let alone travel to other star systems) seems all but a pipe dream.

>This is an infinitesimal expanse of fucking nothing
I suppose you mean "infinite". "Infinitesimal" means "infinitely small" (i.e. $\frac{1}{\infty}$ essentially).

>fapping to alien waifus
Lol, I wasn't aware of anyone doing that.

>fappable alien babes
Fappable? That's a bold claim. We're not even guaranteed they would be topologically equivalent to us.

You're claiming that space is inaccessible to us, and that the rewards don't justify the trip.

But there's a huge amount of things we can learn by travelling to new places, and history clearly shows us how valuable the knowledge gained from exploration really is. Living hidden in your basement might be safe, but it's still just a slow death in ignorance. And we've already done several times more work in space than is necessary to prove that it's not impossible. Space is hard to live in, and other planets all have challenges to life, but we already know that humans are tough enough to push through that. Microgravity doesn't kill us. High and low pressures can be tolerated. We can build space suits and oxygen generators and all the other things we'll need to travel beyond the Earth.

If you don't want to be a part of it that's fine; There are other things that are important too.
But we can do this, and there's lots for us to learn.

>Humans have spent the last 60 million years
OK, which secret branch of humanity do you belong to? Crypto-neanderthal?

Op is a fucking idiot travelling to a other planets will increase our chances of survival but there is a point that else should make every place on earth habitable and everyone's lives economically stable

>"But we can do this"
>"space is the place hurr"
>"we will go to the stars hurr"

That typical romantic denialism of facts.

>travelling to a other planets will increase our chances of survival
You have far higher "chances of survival" by drowning yourself in the ocean that by "travelling to other planets". If you are a manchild blinded by sci-fi stories, then I'm sorry for you.

>This powers all kinetic motion on earth. Waterfalls and oil and a bunch of other natural resources.

>That typical romantic denialism of facts.
Which facts did I deny?

>You have far higher "chances of survival" by drowning yourself in the ocean that by "travelling to other planets".
Really?
Because so far, the track record for safety in space travel is actually pretty good.

>60 million years
>infinitesimal
Gr8 b8 m8

Why do rockets always start vertically? Isn't going in the exact opposite direction to gravity making working against gravity the hardest? Why not start and rise at a slope just like planes do?

Because the lower atmosphere is too thick to justify much horizontal speed.

>people managed to survive in Earth orbit for limited amounts of time while being entirely dependent on extremely sophisticated equipment which costs billions and billions, as well as being entirely dependent on supplies from Earth, and only after years of specialized training, therefore long-term survival in outer space obviously should be easy for anyone

If you don't see the glaring errors in your reasoning, then it's really though to help you. I really think that you are just a young person who is still very idealistic and, alas, quite a bit naive about these things.

> >therefore long-term survival in outer space obviously should be easy for anyone
>I really think that you are just a young person who is still very idealistic and, alas, quite a bit naive about these things.
I'm trying to assume good faith here, but did you actually read anything I wrote at all? Because it's starting to feel like you're just taking my replies as an opportunity to restate your views and act superior.

I didn't said space travel was easy, because it's obviously not. I said it's possible and rewarding.

How did the sun not power it any of that? Kek

Damn dude at the end of the day humanity will either evolve or die. There is no other option. And not to be too flowery but we are just a part of the universe who can analyze and appreciate the rest of it. Why not explore all reality has to offer?

>I said it's possible and rewarding$^{[for whom?][citation needed]}$.

Or are you just happy playing with the formatting?

>Wake the fuck up.

how old are you, kid?

>it's possible
But "viable" is just a subset of "possible", and "sensible" is yet just a subset of "possible". Space travel is just an exception to the rule that we're confined to the Earth and the ecosystem which exists on it. You cannot just adapt to living in space just as water creatures which once crept onto the shore slowly managed to adapt to live on land. As OP and others have pointed out, even if we abstract away from the significance of the ecosystem which we are just a part of and are entirely dependent on to survive (which fact you and your fellow space travel enthusiasts seem to conveniently and systematically ignore), the raw physical conditions anywhere off Earth are extremely and entirely hostile to known life for a vast multitude of reasons. And humans aren't gods, they won't be able to create another "Earth" for them to live in elsewhere.

>it's possible and rewarding

Tell that to them "refugees" and kindly redirect them to Europa (the Jovian moon) rather than to Europe. Time will tell whether you were right or not.

>"It's hard therefore we shouldn't bother"

We're gonna be living on Mars one day and youa re going to be in your basement on Earth jacking off to pictures of us on Mars.

OP this is why we are trying to leave this planet

It's not not (only) about it being hard, but primarily about it being pointless. If you think living on Mars would be so cool and whatnot, why not try living in the Sahara first? It's way easier to get there and way easier to survive there than is in the case of Mars. Yet somehow apefugees have decided taking the exact opposite direction.

Then, for starters, leave you home behind and move into some underground cave, after all the asteroid might struck your exact house. Given that the possibility of the above being nonzero, you should prepare to evacuate your home asap.

He (sarcastically, but still) obviously asked who you believe to reap any real rewards (if any), and what your sources for such beliefs are.

>Space travel is just an exception to the rule that we're confined to the Earth and the ecosystem which exists on it.
And boats are and exception to the rule that we can't cross oceans. So what? This is what technology does

>But "viable" is just a subset of "possible", and "sensible" is yet just a subset of "possible".
"Sensible" is a value judgement, and "viable" depends on what resources you have and what you're trying to accomplish. Travel through space is clearly difficult, but through projects like the ISS and Apollo we've shown that with enough commitment it works.

It's very difficult to predict what we will and won't be able to do in the long term future, but with the technology we have currently long-term bases on the Moon and/or Mars are definitely achievable. Neither would be cheap, but they would open up whole avenues of scientific study we currently have little or no access to.

>As OP and others have pointed out, even if we abstract away from the significance of the ecosystem which we are just a part of and are entirely dependent on to survive
Just because we're dependant on it NOW doesn't mean we have to be. After all, that Earth's ecosystem isn't uniform: people have survived in an increasable broad range of environment, even with very little technology to aide them. People living in months of freezing darkness on Antarctica and on remote station in the Australian outback are both "in the Earth's ecosystem", but they're experiencing massively different challenges to survive.

>the raw physical conditions anywhere off Earth are extremely and entirely hostile to known life for a vast multitude of reasons.
So? Radiation, Vacuum, Cold, Heat. Those are engineering problems, and we're getting better at dealing with them.

>And humans aren't gods, they won't be able to create another "Earth" for them to live in elsewhere.
Maybe, maybe not. But we can start with making small, nearby volumes liveable for short periods. We can build out from there.

The man reason I want us to research space travel is because we will probably discover or invent a whole host of important technologies that will have applications all over.

The short time in the 60s where the space program was considered terribly important was a great time in terms of technological advance. The difficulty and ingenuity required for space travel to be possible means that along the way all kinds of cool things will come along. Technologies that were part of the space program now have applications all over, chemistry, engineering, biology, medicine, etc.

Also, I love the idea of humans making their mark on our small corner of an immense universe.

Mars can become a totally separate ecosystem. On Earth we are still bound to the atmosphere, it's resources and all those nukes hanging over our heads. In fact WW3 is the best reason to leave for another planet is outside of MAD.

>It's not not (only) about it being hard, but primarily about it being pointless.
Why is it pointless? There's huge amounts that we can learn, quite aside from the long-term benefits that space development has brought us.
Exploration is almost always rewarding.

>If you think living on Mars would be so cool and whatnot, why not try living in the Sahara first?
Plenty of people DO live in remote environments in order to study them. There are many research outposts in the Antarctic, an a lot of marine biology is done from people living on ships.

to get away from the minorities you idiot

Is it ethical to spread life to other planets?

is it ethical not to?

Given that no-one is harmed, it's hard to see how it would be unethical.

>infinitesimal expanse

In order for life to exist there must be suffering and death.

In my opinion life should be quarantined on the earth.

The way I see it it's NEET's like yourselves, and some random religious nuts who don't know jack about shit, who actually believe we won't be expanding to other celestial objects within the next half a century.

Everyone else, the smartest, best minds of our planets who are as far from NEET's as one can be, are actually quite beefed up about it and working relentlessly to make it happen. It's quite true that as a species, if we don't expand on multiple planets, then it's only a matter of time before we're done.

I mean, we'll probably have a base on Mars in the next 50 years, but I can't see us fully colonising it or anything for at least a century. Everything in space just takes so goddamn long...

Agreed. But the moment we can put a small base there is already a fucking tremendous first step. From there, putting in a bigger base, eventually even expanding underground into an entirely self-sufficient facility with enough materials to function as a backup for mankind for an indeterminate amount of time, if needed, is already inevitable.

>The way I see it it's NEET's like yourselves, and some random religious nuts who don't know jack about shit, who actually believe we won't be expanding to other celestial objects within the next half a century.

Kek. People were saying the same in the 1950s. Guess what, jack shit happened since then. Even if you don't question the Moon landings, nobody was there since the 1970s anyway, and the limited travels of a hadful of people into Earth's orbit are just exceptions cofirming the rule which states that we ain't gonna go anywhere.

>People living in months of freezing darkness on Antarctica and on remote station in the Australian outback are both "in the Earth's ecosystem", but they're experiencing massively different challenges to survive.
Yes, and yet you somehow think that going into a vacuum where you die almost instantly due to even "small" failures (think the space shuttle catastrophes) is a better idea.

>Just because we're dependant on it NOW doesn't mean we have to be.

If you think that humans can stop being dependant on the Earth's ecosystem, then you are simply delusional. There is not much else to comment on that.

Silly armchair "space explorers".

I think his claim is that the earth would heal eventually. We think we would somehow fuck up Mother Earth when she has, in fact, survived (and will survive) things much greater and worser things than us.

I agree that we're fucking up the environment we live in, and are killing shit left and right, but again, in a long enough timeline Mother Earth would heal and we would die.

Mother earth wont die, but we will

>So? Radiation, Vacuum, Cold, Heat. Those are engineering problems
Yes. You have to supplement yourself with complicated contraptions which cost billions, and the moment any of them fails (and failure is happening constantly in all space programs and many missions) you're probably dead meat in seconds. Thanks, I'll stay on Earth where I have oxygen all around me, water nearby, available food, not don't have to worry that I may die any instant.

The Earth's biosphere has used up 80% of its time anyway. In a billion years or so the Earth's oceans will dry up due to increasing heat output of the Sun, and the planet will become unhabitable for all known life forms. However, we might succeeding in killing all life including ourselves and turn Earth into another Venus way sooner.

>Guess what, jack shit happened since then.
Primarily due to politics, rather than any "hard" problem. Also, quite a bit has happened since then, but it's all been small, incremental stuff. Useful, but not spectacular.

>the limited travels of a hadful of people into Earth's orbit are just exceptions cofirming the rule which states that we ain't gonna go anywhere.
Actually, those trips have built up a lot of the skills, experience and technology we'll need to go anywhere.

>you somehow think that going into a vacuum where you die almost instantly due to even "small" failures (think the space shuttle catastrophes) is a better idea.
It is if it allows you to go somewhere new.

>If you think that humans can stop being dependant on the Earth's ecosystem, then you are simply delusional.
Why? We can definitely decrease our dependence, and the better we get at it the less often we'll need to resupply. How is it absurd to think that the minimum dependence will eventually reach zero?

>putting a small base there is already a fucking tremendous first step. From there, putting in a bigger base, eventually even expanding underground into an entirely self-sufficient facility
This.
Everything is space travel boils down to small steps, each bigger and longer and further away.

>You have to supplement yourself with complicated contraptions which cost billions, and the moment any of them fails (and failure is happening constantly in all space programs and many missions) you're probably dead meat
Actually, the entire point of good design is that a single failure ISN'T fatal. That's why astronaut deaths are a rare exception, rather than happening every time something breaks. Also, you seem to be drifting back towards "This is hard therefore we shouldn't try".

>Thanks, I'll stay on Earth where I have oxygen all around me, water nearby, available food, not don't have to worry that I may die any instant.
And no-one is saying you shouldn't do that.

triggered much?

>60 million years
its only been 2 million

The earth will be a scorched desert in a billion years time, and all multicellular life will be dead.

We need to leave.

Artificial gravity can be done, its called a fucking wheel.

No. The Earth (or, at best, the Solar System) shall be our tomb.

kys faggot

We can go interstellar with our current technology, its just going to take a fuckload of time. There are no facts in your pessimistic basement dwelling

And this is why spaceplanes are better than rockets.

It's more about developing proper techniques for reuse of rockets & cheap fuels rather than new technologies

SpaceX and Blue Origins are not developing new technologies, merely approaching things from a cost focused POV, rather than a government makework POV

op here
im 10

Spaceplanes are dogshit unless PDE's and scramjets somehow get developed into working products

ikr
I kek'd
>literally infinitely small universe

Thats what I mean, no one is funding SSTO development.

>We can go interstellar

Yea right. Except if right now you really found yourself somewhere 20 lightyears away from from your cozy room you're shitposting from, dread would make your brain melt in an instant.

"Armchair space explorers" (as someone said above), when will they learn.

>if right now you really found yourself somewhere 20 lightyears away from from your cozy room you're shitposting from, dread would make your brain melt in an instant.
There is no way anyone could seriously believe that's a sensible argument.
If I suddenly found myself in the middle of the pacific ocean I'd be utterly fucked, and yet boats exist.

The crucial element here is economics and time frame.

No one is going to do jack shit off planet unless there is some return on investment.But that does not preclude the gradual acquisition of knowledge and experience through scientific missions.

Time wise it depends on your your expectations of the future. Sure, nothing much is going to happen in the next hundred years

But if investment for purely scientific reasons and knowledge-gathering continues to potter along and your vision is measured in many centuries rather than decades, then.yeah, interstellar exploration and colonization is not unfeasible.

Even the concept of robot probes being sent to nearby stars and transmitting information back to us is conceivable, given continuing advances in technology and long time frames.

I dont see why it is impossible to think that within several centuries we will have located one or more earth like planets which lie within the range of sending humans, protected and somehow maintained in some sort of suspended animation. It may be 500 years from now. Perhaps 1000 years before we can pull this type of shit off. But impossible? No.

Just sucks it will not be in our lifetimes.

>now you want to go into a sub-zero vacuum full of deadly cosmic radiation and material debris whizzing around at 100 miles a second?
>making statements in the form of baseless assumption
Good bait

Plot twist
We already are in a sub-zero vacuum full of deadly cosmic radiation and material debris whizzing around at hundreds/thousands miles a second relative to certain objects.

Well said OP

Yes, his points reflect a realistic view on the matter.

Yet children/manchildren in this thread cannot accept this and keep arguing how travelling out into space, surviving there, and finding habitable worlds (or just any worlds which are both feasible and sensible to visit) is at this point just as easy as sailing the seas and finding habitable or otherwise interesting islands or continents. They fail to understand that the world which created us ends with the upper atmosphere, and that no further analogies to what once was can be made once one ventures out there.

Just stop.
This is pathetic.

>Sure, nothing much is going to happen in the next hundred years
You area a fucking dumbass
We are talking about multiple orders of magnitude cost reductions coming out of SpaceX and Blue Origin in the next decade/two

If NASA actually produces a decent nuclear thermal rocket for in space propulsion, then the sky is the limit on investment/development

We could be talking about thousands of space going ships by 2050

>inb4 in 200 years give or take interstellar spacetravel will be the talk of the day

What are you gonna say then OP? Your most likely long dead by that time but still.

2 companies are not gonna change much though. You need a lot more investments if you want to get this shit done by 2050.

Look at how tesla has taken off, all it takes is for space travel to seem profitable, and you'll have tens of billions of dollars in investment immediately.

It's you hopeless idealists (who think outer space is a green pasture where you can just go play and pick flowers) who are pathetic.

Earth won't be green forever.

You could at least TRY to frame your view into some kind of argument. Instead you just call everyone else hopeless idealists over and over.
It's kind of telling. Now please fuck off.

why so pessimistic OP?

Mankind won't live long enough to witness that anyway.

Those who reject them just conveniently ignore them as if they weren't made.

Oh, and by the way, those who cry the loudest "space is the place" and "we will go interstellar" and somesuch would be the first to shit their pants if it was them to actually leave Earth even as far as going into orbit (similarly like all the SJWs calling for everyone else taking "muh refugees" would be the first to object and run away if those apefugees were to be deposited anywhere near where they live).

This is why we do trans-human first and planet colonization second. That we are better equipped for this shit.

Until then chuck a shit load of satellites and drones in space to scan the area.

>le NEETs are losers meme

>everyone wanting to live in space thinks interstellar travel is viable

>arbitrarily drawing line at space exploration even though humans didn't evolve for sea or mountain expeditions

>le hat joke
opinion dismissed

None of those arguments make any sense, all you say is "hur its hard because I have no imagination and can't grasp how things would be done"
These third world areas are shit because of third world peoples, not because its impossible for people to live in them.

>Hurr you're all just like SJW's because i'm a filthy redditor conditioned into thinking thats a legitimate comparison
t. you

>oh shit they're not buying into my bullshit better say they're acting like triggered SJWcucks

>the sun powers waterfalls