Please HELP with my sceince exam! I can not COMPLETE this problem, i'm confusd as to HOW?

The wave generated by the butterflies flapping do change the scale, but it is neither constant nor exactly 1.5

am friends say IT can be 1 because the flies to don't touch the jar to ADD weight
not possible ANSWER according to teacher

your friends are f**king retarded...

australian detected

hahaha, cant believe people are falling for my bait thanks for the laugh OP

I'm

...

I like that my answer is the 1st correct one ITT.

What I don't get is that in the 1980s in elementary school for the science parts we had this taught to us. It wasn't a jar of flies though. It was a truck full of pigeons. The driver would park on the scales and bang the truck with a stick to make the pigeons fly to reduce the weight, but it doesn't work of course.

Is that sort of thing no longer taught in schools or are people just retards and don't remember?

>make the pigeons fly to reduce the weight, but it doesn't work of course

put as open cardboard box on a scale. now put a piece of metal in the box. now life the metal so it is in the centre of the box

did the weight change???????????????????????????????????????

No longer taught. I actually dont know the answer for sure myself since Im not very involved in physics, but my logic just tells me it's impossible for the flies to take any effect to the jars weight if they are not connected to the jar and are in a non-fluid instead

The truck is closed though. That is the reason the weight stays the same.

Newton's 3rd Law

Bait?

Maybe to put it in today's terms, put a small drone in a box and have a scale sensitive enough to detects it weight. Hover the drone in the box, what do you get?

>tfw what I said as bait was actually right
And I thought it was a genius bait because it is not possible to argue against it. Fuck, I guess

The birds are flying, using energy stored in their muscle to lift themselves to counteract gravity, thus lowering the scale output.

Closed or open system doesn't matter for the weight, only reason it's mentioned is so the birds/flies/whatever can't fly off.

The birds are using their muscles to exert a force which counteracts their weight. This force pushes on the air which pushes on the bottom of the container.

This is only if it's closed though.

An open box will change weight but that amount will depend on vertices, air pressure, and what part is open.

A close box won't change weight significantly. It will vibrate up and down a tiny amount but will stabilize. It's average weight will remain the same.

is the jar open or closed at the top?

FYI, that shitty show "Mythbusters" actually did this and proved that the truck full of pigeons things was false. The weight didn't change. They used a close box with pigeons and the box with a helicopter inside. Same results. Weight didn't change.

Looks closed; blue lid.

>implying mythbusters is a credible, non-biased source

what if the jar is open, but you put a (blue) net on top, so the flies cant escape?

Biases towards what exactly? What bias could possibly exist regarding whether a box of flying birds changes weight?

Hard to say, I think the weight would increase a bit but not by the full amount.

>what is a rocket

flies = rocket

jar = atmosphere

as long as the rocket/flies leaves earth/scale, the scale/earth gradually experiences less and less thrust/air pressure until it experiences nothing

Air is a fluid

if we assumed that the system is subject to gravity and assume its direction is downwards relative to the picture the scales will show the wight of the jar + everything inside of it.

its how gravity works senpai, it pulls mass towards mass.

I agree. I dislike they way they do nearly everything. However, this one happens to be correct.

This is a basic science lesson though.

I'm not sure what the weight will be, but it will be lighter I do know that. The air is still pushing down on the bottom of the box, but the vertices involved and the release of air compression may make it lighter by x amount. The amount it is lighter may be a very tiny amount.

so it's 1

There's a lid though and the flies aren't tending upwards.

>implying when they did the birds in the truck there was a moment when every single bird was in the air

and ? you can sit on the launching platform in cap canaveral when the rocket is still on the stratosphere and you won't experience the weight of the rocket

>airplane flies over my head, 30,000 feet up
> crushes me cause "hurr durr muh thrust n phsyics"

Except thats because the force is just spread over a greater area so its less noticeable, all the force is still there though

They used a remote controlled helicopter too.

>The scale on the rig showed 52.6 regardless of whether or not the helicopter was flying on or the ground.

>implying a helicopter with specific downward thrust is equivalent to horizontal thrust of flies flying around

Yeah because it's spread over a really large area. If you were at the bottom of a tube exactly as wide as the rocket engine you'd experience a lot more force.

Actually, a bird's wing produces enough thrust on the down stroke to equal twice its weight but the upstroke they are weightless. Thus, the average is that they weigh the same.

Flies still have vertical thrust to stay in the air though. Horizontal thrust won't affect the scale reading.

as a licensed mechanical biologist from MIT, you are incorrect, the aerodynamical formation of a birds wing cups on the downward, and points as a upside down parabola on the upward swing. as a result it depends on the aerodynamics of the bord. but in this case we are talking about flied which are different from birds. flies provide a 45 degree angle of casual forward flight unless they are within landing distance of a flat object in which case it raises to a 80 degree flying system. so this shows that the weight is in fact 1 kg as the flies flying pattern and air dissipitation changes

So you're telling me that a plane flying over my head is the same thing as plane being dropped on me?

Yeah no.

>the thrust from a plane is concentrated purely over the area of a person

Well of course not

>welcome to Veeky Forums

Mods if you still exist, please sticky this thread and show that Veeky Forums is as trash as /b/

Do you mean WEIGHT or MASS ?

Thermodynamics tells you the MASS of the system is DECREASING because of the loss of energy through blackbody radiation and heat.

Mechanics will tell you WEIGHT as experienced by the scale will actually become slightly BIGGER as the flies are taking off, they are pushing air downwards which will push the floor of the jar, ultimately pushing the scale.

...

Look you have to take into account thr lae of gravity and how it pertains to this problem.

More important: Is the scale scaling?

Veeky Forums never disappoints

>This force pushes on the air which pushes on the bottom of the container.
>This is only if it's closed though.
>I have no idea how pressure works

read:

newscientist.com/article/dn26807-if-birds-in-a-truck-fly-does-the-truck-get-lighter/

youtu.be/kBFYfHLTxHw

>make the jar excessively high
>force generated by the downwards motion of the wings dissipates due to internal friction of the air molecules

yeah but that same air that gets pushed down into the floor of the jar will eventually end up pushing up against the top of the jar too because that's how pressure works in a closed system. You're also wrong about the mass decreasing. Although mass is lost from blackbody radiation, the flies being at a higher altitude gives the system more potential energy and thus more mass.

1 gorrillion kg