What does Veeky Forums think about race and IQ? Does Veeky Forums follow their leader Bill Nye in the belief that there is no biological basis for race, or does Veeky Forums believe there are differences between the races?
Honestly wondering if there's an intellectual foundation for my racist beliefs.
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insidehighered.com
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jstor.org
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en.wikipedia.org
youtube.com
sciencedirect.com
robertlindsay.wordpress.com
youtube.com
twitter.com
IQ does not correlate very well with race, and IQ of modern ethnic groups is a totally useless predictor of historical trends
>scientific racism
>acknowledging morphological differences between races is racism
weak all around, OP
There are too many variables to verify those claims, for example black people from the middle class in a non ghetto environment had the same IQ of other white folks in middle class
So this map of IQ distribution of indigenous peoples around the world is bullshit?
Citation please.
Pretty much yes
>if there's an intellectual foundation for my racist
No.
>if there's an intellectual foundation for my
>my
No.
>if there's an intellectual foundation for
>if
No.
>if there's an intellectual foundation
Sure, but not for anything we don't already have a name for. The fact that you didn't name the idea tells us that you've done zero research on it and thus there couldn't possibly be an basis, scientific or otherwise, to your beliefs.
>if there's an intellectual
Sure, but liars cheats and scams are omnipresent.
>if there's an
No.
>if there's
No.
>if
No.
If there was, it would be popular enough that you'd never need to ask.
Citation please.
I disagree with there being any correlation, and believe it's cultural.
I'm American, but I've spent the last few years between Southeast Asia and West Africa. A lot of the Senegalese villagers I've met have been really smart, motivated people. Good people. But I wouldn't give some of the kids a paper exam who go out and work in the fields every day, because they've never done work problems. But even without the standard education, they have complex understanding of agricultural economics just from their experiences, and they're often very socially intelligent. Some of the Guinean office workers have been brilliant.
In Cambodia I met some intimidatingly intelligent doctors, and some great NGO workers. I did meet some working class city people who did seem a bit stupid, but now that I have the experiences I do, I have to assume that's from lack of communication - I don't speak Khmer or Mandarin, so we had to rely on their broken English to communicate, and East Asian cultures tend to be very subtle and different/alien to western cultures, so often I was left wondering why the hell they would act a certain way. In West Africa the villagers never seemed stupid to me, and I have to assume that's because I spent a lot of time in their culture to the point that I understood them well, plus communication was easy because my French is okay and by now I'm pretty fluent in Wolof (Senegal's major language)
What about this study that shows SAT scores are effected by race and ethnicity more than any other factor? Do SAT scores and IQ scores correlate in any way, shape or form?
insidehighered.com
Cite the study that produced that image
Sweet anecdote, bro. The average IQ in Senegal is 76, by the way.
>They seemed smart to me
No doubt.
1. You're OP, and the only relevant question to ask and answer is whether or not your beliefs had a basis. They didn't, which is why you ask.
2. You're not OP, and you're likely not willing to deal with any given source, or else we have no reason to assume you're as willing to accept the possibility that racism is baseless as OP is/was.
You asked. The answer is no. Providing evidence to falsify your baseless beliefs should not be put on us. If you have wrong beliefs, deal with it.
If you doubt the veracity of their claims, by all means, show me a study stating Africans have higher or at least equal average IQ's to every other race or part of the world. I'll be waiting.
>average IQ in Senegal is 76
Again, problem with testing - you can't give a paper test to someone who's never gone to school and done one and expect them to do well as somebody who's spent their entire lives in front of worksheets. You're talking about people who are effective mechanics, farmers, cooks, aid workers, merchants, and nurses, sometimes all at once. You can read all your masturbatory racist lit all the time, but the fact is until you've met these people, you have no idea
Why? The only claim ive made is that IQ does not correlate well to race. It certainly correlates well to socioeconomic and environmental conditions?
Citation?
By definition science is racism. otherwise you have to throw away the entire genetics, biomedical and evolutionary studies in order to dismiss any racial differences.
That's great! Now I'm asking for citations and reasons to not believe what I believe. Your post was a big fat waste of time and so was this one. I'm still looking for an objective, unbiased study to disregard my beliefs. If such proof existed I imagine I would have seen it by now.
>By definition science is racism
no scientist or intelligent person would ever say this. Admit it, you're some community college retard who masturbates to anthropomorphic animal anime porn
science denialists BTFO
>SAT scores
Are SAT scores the only thing that show this correlation? Does anything else show a stronger correlation? These are the questions you'd need to know the answers to if you were to honestly claim that there was a smidgen of epistemology to your beliefs.
>average IQ
The average IQ of a given population is 100. This is how we define the bell curve you call IQ. Anything else is strictly abuse of statistics.
>until you've met these people
Racism isn't founded in personal experience. If it were just a matter of meeting them, this wouldn't be a problem for OP or anyone else.
>Again, problem with testing
What a wonderful excuse! It's a shame it can't be tested. What about shit like the mirror test? African children don't pass it until they're like six, but elephants and certain birds pass it.
youtube.com
What's up with that? It's not like elephants and birds grew up with mirrors.
>You're talking about people who are effective mechanics, farmers, cooks, aid workers, merchants, and nurses, sometimes all at once.
Are they really, though? Compared to Whites and Asians, would you say they stack up? Let's be honest with ourselves.
>no scientist or intelligent person would ever say this on public television
fixed that for you. i liked how you skipped the rest of the post that you failed to address. if you believe there are no differences among races, then you must support the studies which focus on these variances. Which means you're against the very concept of biology, medicine and evolution.
Please kill yourself and refrain yourself from posting in anything science related discussion ever again.
>Are they really, though? Compared to Whites and Asians, would you say they stack up? Let's be honest with ourselves.
given the fact that they have zero resources, yes. I've seen African drivers get broken down heap-of-junk guitars running in no time. I've seen fantastically planned fields. I've seen great health posts in villages.
You can't say "let's be honest with ourselves" because there is no us - you're some retard who's afraid to leave your comfortable bedroom, who talks shit about far off populations to make yourself feel less like a pathetic NEET piece of white trash. You're sheltered, and as a result your opinions are retarded.
lol, what the hell are those studies supposed to prove? Please summarize for us. I read the first abstract and it basically demonstrated that Blacks mothers are shit and raise their children to be shit, and White mothers shower their children with positive reinforcement so the kids don't turn out to be as fucked up. Do you think if Whites raise Black children then they'll grow up to be just like us?
>What is regression toward the mean?
>>average IQ
>The average IQ of a given population is 100. This is how we define the bell curve you call IQ. Anything else is strictly abuse of statistics.
Then it would make sense if it's the world average, wouldn't it dumb ass?
There's nothing else in your post to address. I've actually studied genetics and evolution quite a bit because I took a number of biology courses out of curiosity and enjoyment. All racist biological work is rooted in early anthropology, which is outdated and discredited - the entire body of knowledge for the first 50 or 100 years of anthropology were retarded assertions made my pseudo-scientists who went out to observe "jungle people", and it's all been discredited. THAT's the basis for racist pseudoscience.
>given the fact that they have zero resources, yes.
Truly, African ingenuity is a thing of wonder!
youtube.com
> I've seen great health posts in villages.
And I see people drinking petrol because they think some priest turned it into pineapple juice. I see people raiding a hospital to loot it, stealing bloody sheets in an ebola epidemic. I see men raping babies because they think it will cure them of AIDS. I see the goddam president of an African country claiming washing one's self with soap and water after having sex will cure them of HIV.
I mean, as long as we're cherry-picking examples of intelligence.
>basically demonstrated that Blacks mothers are shit and raise their children to be shit, and White mothers shower their children with positive reinforcement
This is precisely what it demonstrated. Race had no impact on the children, in the same environment black and white children performed equally well
>power of reason
>This is precisely what it demonstrated. Race had no impact on the children, in the same environment black and white children performed equally well
There was no mention of White children in the abstract, dumb ass. Did you even read it? It was a study comparing Black children raised by Black mothers and Black children raised by White mothers. Dumb ass.
Noticing differences isn't racism. Racism is being a shit about it. You're being a shit about it. This is technically an ad hominem, but it's not a reason to dismiss your beliefs.
The reason to dismiss your beliefs is that it's /pol/ tier shit with no science behind it. The baseline for all /pol/ infographics is the 'Trump will make anime real' meme as far as I'm concerned.
No, you haven't seen any of those. You've watched videos of the most sensationalistic things on the planet.
Most people, even uneducated rural people here, believe in modern medicine. They want vaccinations for their kids.
I find your example with the ebola bedsheets very questionable - I've worked in an ebola country (Guinea), and ebola was horrifying to everyone.
As for men raping babies, there have been cases of that on the African continent. There have been significantly more cases of that sort of thing in Southeast Asia.
You don't have much real world experience in anything, do you? Because it's obvious you can't tell the difference between day-to-day reality and tabloid journalism.
> I've actually studied genetics and evolution
> There are no differences between races
> adressing these differences are racist
Yeah, anyone who studies evolution and genetics are racist by your pants-on-head retarded standards. How does it feel like to be a racist ?
>You're sheltered, and as a result your opinions are retarded.
Not to defend OP or anything, but I'm massively NEET and not racist, so the correlation strictly is not causative there either. Something else ruined OP aside from just NEETness.
> inserting political agenda into his pseudo-scientific post.
"being a shit about" is subjective. You are being a shit about everything and accusing people of racism who acknowledge what is there.
>jstor.org
This one compared various ethnicites and found no difference
Also this if you can find a translation
Eyferth, K (1961). "Leistungern verscheidener Gruppen von Besatzungskindern Hamburg-Wechsler Intelligenztest für Kinder (HAWIK)". Archiv für die gesamte Psychologie (in German) 113: 222–41
> found no difference
Are you saying the results were identical ? Did you even read it ?
No statistically meaningful difference why are you being so autistic?
> resorting to ad-hominems when cornered.
Thats just sad. The results of the tests are open to interpretation. "no meaningful difference" does NOT belong to scientific terminology. What are the p values of these statistics and elimination basis ?
>accusing people of racism
>my racist beliefs
Racism is being a shit about it. OP didn't start out the thread by being a shit about it, but every post after the OP has either been, "No, it's baseless," asking for a source, or being a shit.
I'm not saying I haven't been a shit here, just that the way I've been a shit hasn't been about noticing racial differences.
>What are the p values of these statistics and elimination basis ?
Read the study and find out. Also insults are not ad hominems, its only an ad hominem if I imply your point is wrong BECAUSE of whatever I insult you about
> being a shit about it
Thats clearly subjective. the term racism has been extremely degraded by shitposters and lost its definition long time ago. now racism means "facts and opinions that don't fit my comformist sugarcoated worldview"
Why have you never argued using these p values as you had to in a scientific discussion ? is "i found no meaningful difference" really the extent of the credibility you can offer ?
Because I dont have the data on hand. If you want to dig through the studies and refute their data go ahead
...
Why would people seperated upwards of 100k years develop different intellectual fortitudes? Evolution doesn't exist op.
I know anecdotal evidence is worth little, but I know at least myself and my sibling are tested above the average range for any race IQ-wise and we're black.
I think the trend does have some basis in the genetics of race, but it's more a matter of environment. It just so happens that some environments are ridiculously toxic, so any hope for greater accomplishment gets snuffed out by a crab mentality.
I think this is about right. There may be a small genetic difference in intelligence, but the vast majority of the effect is environmental
Minnesota transracial adoption study disagrees.
I'm aware you don't like how the word has evolved in response to the shitheads that it applies to.
That's why I gave you my definition.
Incidentally, being a shit about my definition of racism isn't the same as being a shit about noting potential differences between races.
Jesus fuck, read the article. Your stupidity is all over the place. It's literally more attractive to me right now to stab myself in the arm that bother trying to explain how retarded you've been here.
Yeah there have been a few similar studies and they get mixed results
Link?
Noting potential differences between races ARE racism moron. You treat them differently because you see them differently.
> omg omg im gonna call him stupid rather than insert a single scientific input coz im retarded
why are you repeating yourself ?
sciencedirect.com
This one found that korean kids adopted by belgians still had a higher IQ than native belgians
>You treat them differently because you see them differently.
No, that's what being a shit about it entails. I don't care if you have a brainstem the size of an ant; I'll treat you the same as I would anything else. If you don't actually advocate for anti-human governance, I don't frankly care if anyone considers you racist or not. (That includes both of us, not just all other anons ITT and people in the world.)
I have no issue whatsoever with the idea that Caribbean africans have a higher density of fast twitch muscles than europeans. Whether its true or not, it doesnt affect me at all
There is a reason much of Africa never developed past the hunter gatherer phase. Racial differences in intelligence exist, deal with it ya brainwashed libturds.
>There is a reason much of Africa never developed past the hunter gatherer phase
Yes, and that reason is almost entirely environmental
This t b h, there are way too many factors to consider for us to even be able to draw conclusions out of it.
I've also always wondered, were those tests conducted in Wolof or something ? Assuming a relevant percentage of the population can't speak French as well as a French native speaker, wouldn't the vocabulary part be biased ?
Same goes for pretty much all of Africa and South Asia.
Yes yes, parrot that social justice drivel. Why bother to advance past smearing oneself in mud and dung anyway? Sounds swell! Anything to the contrary would be racist!
Move those goal posts, baby!
Pathetic liberals.
>social justice drivel
Racism is social justice drivel.
Caring, at all, is social justice drivel. Apathy is the only valid stance if your goal is to avoid social justice faggotry.
What in the hell are you talking about?
Makes sense considering asians on average have a higher iq than whites.
Yeah, the koreans fostered by belgians showed the same IQ score as native koreans raised by other koreans
> I don't care if you have a brainstem the size of an ant; I'll treat you the same as I would anything else.
I'm glad to see you're against affirmative-action and many other unmerited privileges that some african-americans get. Treating them differently is just unacceptable.
> social justice
It is social justice alright. Justice, only for the people they want :)
God I love those racists in denial.
>you're against affirmative action
Damn straight I am. Marriage is wrong in all cases.
I was not born of a government sponsorship.
>I'm glad to see you're against affirmative-action and many other unmerited privileges that some african-americans get.
Of course, only moronic liberals think these things are somehow not racist
Random things to consider :
>Adopted kids' IQ may be distributed differently than for normal kids. Some for instance grow up receiving more attention than average, from dedicated parents, in a better environment
>The intellectual stimulation you receive the very first years of your life may have an important impact on your intellect in later life. Most adopted children spent that time with their respective biological parents
>What your mother drank, ate or smoked during pregnancy may impact on your brain development. For instance, korean moms probably eat more fish than average => more omega 3 fatty-acids => considerable increase in IQ. The variation goes the other way when it comes to drug use during pregnancy.
>The disease you have contracted after your birth, or your mom has contracted during pregnancy may have an influence too. Those diseases and the treatment habits may vary across populations
>The people you hang out with may affect your intellect positively or not. People might tend to hang out with other individuals that look like them.
And last but not least :
>Stereotypes. See:
>robertlindsay.wordpress.com
>youtube.com
I'm running out of ideas, but you get the point; dealing with statistical data is not that simple.
Trying to come up with excuses to explain why you got low IQ, doesn't magically change the fact that you got low IQ.
The question is not whether certain groups have a lower IQ than others, the question is WHY
I've never said otherwise, what's your point?
Aww, poor baby can't science! Never mind, go back to your racist propaganda, you won't be missed here.
Discredited, I believe.
By who?
Its not discredited, there are just different interpretations of the results, like with pretty much any study
> The question is not whether certain groups have a lower IQ than others, the question is WHY
> I've never said otherwise, what's your point?
Then why are you listing completely irrelevant points ?
Ashkenazi Jews have the highest mean iq on the planet. Look how overrepresented they are in Nobel awards. They also dominate fields like finance which require brain power. Coincidence? I think not.
Because they are explanations for why certain groups have lower IQs than others that arent genetics
Have you read the discussion before posting?
No, they are completely arbitrary and baseless excuses you just made up to compensate for their low intelligence display. You really shouldn't use conjecture in a scientific discussion it's just pointless.
>finance
>require brain power
Literally triggered. Pick one.
If you're not trolling, you have a low intelligence.
>conjecture
Are you still the dipshit that thought that the user who linked the studies was the one saying that no statistically significant difference was measured?
(They were quoting the study's conclusion, not making their own observation.)
>Have a set of data
>The explanation I like is scientific
>The explanations I dont like are arbitrary and baseless
> resorting back to insults
well that was easy
Blacks and whites have equal intelligence if you control for black genetics.
> have a set of data
> random things to consider
> list a bunch of sad excuses to make up for your olw intellect.
You either have problem following posts or go learn to read before trying to post anything else
