Is the Universe infinite for finite?

It's finite.
There's a limited amount of matter. I don't care what any of you guys say, you'll always be able to put the universe in a big enough box. We don't know how big, and the box might have to expand as the universe expands with it, but there's always going to be a big enough box.

What if there was infinite energy in the big bang?

Due to observational constraints on the global curvature the universe must be either infinite or much, much larger than the observable universe. In standard flat cosmology the universe is infinite.

There's no evidence of the universe being finite.

If the universe doesn't have an edge it can still be finite or infinite in space. So simply saying there is no edge doesn't tell you whether the number of galaxies is finite or not.

If there was a edge there would be a furthest galaxy.

Its that limited energy and matter, that results in the heat death hypothosis

>There's a limited amount of matter.
Based on what evidence?

The heat death is caused by decreasing energy and matter DENSITY. It doesn't tell you anything about the total value.

If the universe was infite in anyway other than size, Then i feel there would have to be a source of this infinite energy and matter

why would matter and energy be infinite? how would you suggest this work?

Because for it to be infinite new energy and matter would HAVE to be created, as if it was all created at a prior event, it would still be finite

>if it was all created at a prior event, it would still be finite

Why?

the question is meaningless, it could be both finite and infinite at the same time, just like [0,1] has a finite lebesgue measure but contains an infinite number of numbers.

Please correct me if im wrong, but if there was a event that created or dispersed this matter and energy (such as the big bang) then where would new matter or energy come from to make it infinite? Or am I being completeley ignorant?

I understand that the space of the universe can be infinite, but not the matter and enerygy of which it contains.

If we assume the cosmological principle and that the universe is simply-connected, then we must conclude from the empirical evidence (which tells us that local space is flat) that the universe is infinite and contains infinite matter. This is the simplest answer but not the only possible answer.

>i feel that...
I feel like you're an idiot

Why do you need new matter? Why can't the matter be infinite from day one?

And why do you think that?

why would matter and energy be finite?

It called the "Big" Bang, not the "Infinite" Bang

The term "Big Bang" was made up to mock the idea. Not the sort of thing to base an argument on.

Based on infinity only making sense when it's an abstract mathematical concept.

The universe does not conform to what you consider makes sense.

Pretty edgy post for someone claiming the universe doesn't have one

Personally, I'm a fan of the bubble multiverse theory. All those bubbles in pic related represent an expanding universe. We'll most likely never know for sure, and we sure as hell will never be able to find a way to escape our own universe, but until we know otherwise for sure this is what I'm going with.

I also like the idea of a computer simulation, though.

I'm not claiming anything other than the fact you can't rule out cosmologies based on opinion.

Yeah no reason why this isn't possible. Parallel universes just being universes that are literally just not touching and might touch one day.

>If infinity is real, so is its inverse nothing.
>The two are interdependent on their existences.
>And if infinity is real, we exist somewhere between nothingness and infinity.
>Therefore, it would make sense that the field of infinity is space, and space contains the numbers/potentials which comprise infinity.
>Some of these numbers/potentials clump up to form subatomic particles/macro particles, but have values in constant flux, influenced by many, many factors.
>Big Bang could have been a "stack overflow" of a particular point in the field which had more than what it allowed (think of an array/matrix out of bounds)
>This event could be one of an infinite number of events in the same field we exist within.
>Even if there is infinite space, you can draw a line between any two points if they exist (mind blown when I realized this).

I could be wrong, but these are my thoughts. Have more if anyone is interested.

>you can draw a line between any two points if they exist (mind blown when I realized this).

Is this really what you want to bring to the table?

Of course, this type of universe would only leave us with a million more questions. What are the natural processes that lead to the birth of a universe? What is the space between universes like? Is THAT infinite, or are there more of them if you view it from outside? Do all universes follow the same natural laws, or do they establish their own physical laws at birth? etc.

It's too bad we'll probably never know the real truth.

This is pretty much 100% bullshit

Are you retarded? The Big Bang was an expansion of space and does not imply anything about the amount of energy, or space for that matter.

I mean, it is commonsense and trivial, but if you think about it for a while, it's interesting. Your brain wants to think that you could have a line between two objects stretching for eternity, but it's just simply not the case.

The only thing that can be infinite is empty space.
Different physical laws is possible. It's also possible that the laws of physics change very slowly in our universe.
Probably a cycle of birth, expansion, death, condensation, birth for universe life.

>well that's your opinion :^)

The same could be said to science and any human attempts to understand the universe.

Even if I don't agree with the guy you were arguing with, the fact that we exist (making us part of the universe), reason, and are aware of these things, gives us authority to establish knowledge about the universe, even if it's limited.

This thread is full of idiots, abandon ship

KEK, someone must've gotten butthurt over something. cry moar, bitchass

Effectively finite. Beyond the edge of the observable universe there are places that we are a measurable distance away from but because the universe is constantly expanding there are places that we physically cannot reach even at the speed of light because gap between it and us is growing faster than we can cross it.

That said, your question is fucking stupid because there are only technicalities. we genuinely don't know if the universe is infinite or if it's just sufficiently big that we can never reach the edge. No confirmed theory gives us an answer

>The same could be said to science and any human attempts to understand the universe.

That's idiotic. Does frame dragging depend squarely upon one persons opinion? No, it's fucking testable. Venturing into the untestable such as the extent of the universe is pure speculation but that's fine if it's made clear. However to claim to know something on that level is not science. If it's not falsifiable it isn't science.

>gives us authority to establish knowledge about the universe, even if it's limited.

There's a difference between establishing knowledge and outright asserting something must be the case.

the universe, similar to op's mothers ass, currently exists in a state of quantum superposition. once again like OP's mother ass it is seemingly infinite but untestable with current technology. thus for the time being it cannot be known if the ass was simply fat AF, or if it was truly infinite

Is black matter accelerating the universe?

*expansion

Infinite doesn't exist. Si, it's finite.

Could be both at the same time for all we know...

The big bang doesn't need to create energy. All we know is that about 12 billion years ago the observable universe was on one point without assuming that particles interacted with each other. We know nothing what is beyond what we are physically able to see. There doesn't necessarily have to be a beginning if there's expansion.

We don't know. You can't >inb4 the answer to your question.

This is possible using higher dimensions suggested by different String Theories

All I know that universe is cute

We don't know and right now, we can't know.
The universe is expanding. The rate of expansion is accelerating. Parts of the universe further away from us expand even further away.
There are parts of the universe expanding away from us at the speed of light. We will never see the light from this part.
Because the expansion is accelerating, the observable universe is shrinking.
We might never know what is beyond the observable universe.

ITT:

>Not realising the Universe is an external experience with no size at all.

>Not realising the further you look into space the further it will expand.

kek

If 0 is one end of the universe and 1 is the other, are you saying the distance between the two has an infinite amount of energy/matter/stuff? If so then you should consider redefining your definition of infinity.

>In standard flat cosmology the universe is infinite

This seems like more of a mathematical simplification than a qualitative statement about reality. The universe began expanding a finite time ago, and has expanded at a finite rate. Thus, there is a maximum distance at which galaxies could be. There won't be anything 20 trillion years old out there because there haven't been 20 trillion years.

I'm a major idiot so please correct me if I'm full of shit

/thread

Just think guys even if there was an edge to the universe that edge would have to be enclosed in another place (eg:u put a cat in a box and the box has edges, so the cat is in a finite space right?But the box has to placed in a space too right?and whats beyond that space???Im very curious....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guys you really can't make any real assumptions, as many said before me. First of all most of you refer to an infinte expansion of our universe which may be widely accepted but as with many other things is a hypothesis. For example just last year some guys proposed a mechanism in which the universe will end in a Big Crunch yet to be proven wrong (source: dx.doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevLett.114.101302 )
Secondly at this time we only can guess what even causes expansion, probably being Dark Energy and where this form of energy comes from (expansion obviously needs energy therefore the energy is transformed and may not contribute to expansion anymore (c.f. vacuum energy exists -> space contains energy -> more space = more energy). And before anyone of you come up with some "infinte energy" stuff: I know we cannot confirm anything at this point but wouldn't infinite energy mean infinte energy density no matter how much space there is?

And on my final thought we have no idea if we even exist and if we do we can't say how long the universe has existed, it merely could have popped in existance 5 minutes ago with all that is including galaxies, databases, memories etc for all we know.

So I am really sorry OP but we really don't know shit about anything that is going on around us and rely on assumptions we have to accept in order to forge our own model and reason of existence.

+1 for saucing like a responsible user

We can't fucking tell and that's the bottom line. I'm personally a Lainist, so I don't even focus on the physicality of the universe as a main point. But, whenever I take the time to look stuff up, I end up believing that the universe is infinite, or at the very least, the universe is far too vast for the human brain to process. And, if it's large enough that we can't process it, it might as well be infinite.

...

You misunderstand the expansion of the universe. It is not a shell of matter moving outwards from one point but an expansion of all space.

>Secondly at this time we only can guess what even causes expansion, probably being Dark Energy and where this form of energy comes from (expansion obviously needs energy therefore the energy is transformed and may not contribute to expansion anymore (c.f. vacuum energy exists -> space contains energy -> more space = more energy).

No. The universe would expand without dark energy, dark energy drives the acceleration of the universe. Hence why dark energy as a concept is 15 years old not a hundred like the expanding universe.

>And before anyone of you come up with some "infinte energy" stuff: I know we cannot confirm anything at this point but wouldn't infinite energy mean infinte energy density no matter how much space there is?
Only if space is finite. In infinite space density can only be measured locally, and it's finite locally everywhere.

The universe is finite in so far as eventually it will be cold and too spaced out.

However it is theorized if you can grab alot of energy you can reignite or outpace space time and see beyond the galaxy and perhaps even enter a new one that is alive and well...
That or explode into something even smaller than atomic particals.
Either way it would sure beat freezing slowly.

>we can't know nuffin guys :^)

G-Galaxy chan I...

The universe is infinite but the space actually occupied by light/matter is finite and expanding

Everyone in this thread is dumber because of you.

Not according to the cosmological principle

When you say multiverse do you mean multiple versions of the same universe existing in alternate histories or do you mean a multitude of spherical islands of matter and energy spread over a single infinite abyss?

If the universe has a finite volume, then it is essentially the surface of 4D doughnut, but the minimum size it can have still many times the size of the observable universe. This said, there is no upper size limit on the universe and thus it may well be infinite. In the case of an infinite universe, it must contain an infinite amount of stuff in order to maintain flatness.

I always had this little thought experiment lingering in the back of my head:

The universe is just the distribution of things comprising it.

Collectively, those things fall within relative distance of one another, and sum totally have a shape if you consider all their edges, like a big polygon.

If the universe is just the distribution of things in it, and they all have edges, the universe mud also have an edge, which is the hyperplane of all the aggregate planes.

But If th universe has an edge, there is something outside the universe. But if the universe has an edge, there is more beyond the universe than everything that exists within it.

Therefore the universe must be infinite, because it cannot have an edge without what lies beyond that edge being continuous with what came before it.

Put another way, if the universe is finite it mus reside in something that is not the universe, which is impossible if we define the universe as all that exists.

QED ;)

>4d

Infinite, potentially

Space is expanding significantly faster than the speed of light (or at least faster than the expanding matter and energy within it). For all intents and purposes, it is infinite.

>I don't wanna hear "we don't know"
Then some other board is for you. This is the board for science. Might I suggest a forum for religious believers? Because that's what you're doing.