Depression

There's no difference between depression and attention-whoring, but attention-whoring is very much a real mental disease (narcissism)

>sauce: psychology freshman

>source: Professional shitposting

Yes, mine is manifested by extreme fatigue and/or anhedonia which then triggers eventual low mood since neither of them are pleasant. I have stuff I have a habit of accomplishing or long term things so I push through it, but sometimes it just takes it's toll and I have to stop everything for a day after work. I think some of it I have experienced lately is also just situational that supplements the brain chemistry.

*Former* "depressed" here

Depression = Awareness, if you believe this is 'illness', you might have acquired Gulliblitis

You aren't mad, sad, or anything strongly anymore.

No desire to breed, not from a lack of confidence in 'looks' or 'social skills', but knowing what a futile use of energy it is making 'preparations for the future' in a world that can't handle the now without turning it to a steaming pile of ape excrement for everyone, your pic illustrates this point.

Possibly 'after death' there is something marginally less awful, but from what can be known about cycles, unlikely, and no reason to 'race for the finish line'.

Sounds like a great scientific analysis /s

What fucking board am I on?

>/s

are you sure you're even on the right website, pal?

It seems to be a multi issue illness that has many factors combined into it. My favorite factors are the physiological ones.

Activity in part of the left prefrontal cortex has been found to be associated with people who are more resilient to stressors in life and as such have higher levels of overall happiness levels. On the flip side, those with more activity on the corresponding right side are linked to reacting more strongly and negatively to stressors and are more likely to have anxiety and depressive disorders. Also, meditation focused on "happier thoughts" has been found to increase activity in the left side but not study has looked at the entire chain as far as I know.

Also while many people think SSRI medication works by putting more serotonin in the system for longer (even though people with depression generally have normal or even high levels of serotonin in their body), it actually works by over the course of weeks changing the hippocampus. People with major depressive disorder have a shrunken and disfunctional hippocampus which for whatever reason is reversed to a more normal hippocampus when a SSRI is used. This is also why you can't just pop a SSRI for the first time and expect to feel happier and why it doesn't help those without the illness feel happier.

If anyone wants a link for any of this just ask and I can find them

It's just an inbalance of brain chemicals, nothing can be done to fix it really, anti-depressions have a really low success rate

>brain chemical imbalance
I hear this thrown around so much but never any expounding. What does it really mean?

brain inflammation
hormone imbalance
cognitive dissonance

It's as broad of a term when referring to neural conditions as it's a blood problem when referring to cardiovascular disorders. Most medication to treat disorders involve increasing the amount of certain neurotransmitters so people naturally assume that it is caused by an imbalance that the medication is restoring but as I said in that is not always the case. Some disorders like bipolar do seem to be caused by neurotransmitter imbalances in the form of glutamate (and dopamine et all due to the glutamate imbalance) but depression does not seem to be one to any large degree.

>left side right side... Etc
So does that mean left handed people are more likely to be depressed?

You're referring to how people who are left handed are more likely to have a mirrored brain? No when I was using the terms like left and right I was referring to the typical brain based on the left side having Broca's and Wernickies and all. If they had a mirrored brain then you would need to flip my left and right terms as well.

bump

ouch

Every now and then this thread keeps cropping up.
Every time, this is the answer.

Can we please just remember to google Robert Sapolsky every time we think of some kind of biology-psychology question?

>real
>involves the mind
Maybe we need a different word to categorize that which is perceptible but has no physical analogue.

>evolutionary explanation.

Doesn't really make sense.

Evolutionary selection requires survival and breeding. You could argue that genetically close groups with suiciders survived better but given the relative rarity of suicides that's still quite unlikely.

Oh look, there's someone sane in this thread.
Just wanted to make sure there were at least two of us before moving on.

I mean, the thoughts exist somewhere. Theyre as real as a website on a server.

just wanted to clarify

i mean that in the sense that our processing is obviously going on inside our head. memories aren't "stored offsite" or whatever.

we just lack the ability to effectively and accurately read memories, for now.

Really most neuroscience it pointing towards that memories are not stored at all but simply recreated in the brain. Whenever we remembering something, the brain activity activates to mimick to what the activity it was during the time whatever was being remembered was learned.

This helps explain state learning where if you learn something drunk then it's easier to remember it if you are drunk. Your brain activity while drunk is hard to mimic while sober. Remember that next time you study while drinking.

had this tab open

anyways, that's pretty neat. i didn't know that, but it explains a lot of things.
i watched a TON of trump videos on adderall and every time i watch them again i get the full body waves of chills like i usually do on addy, even though i'm not on it

that's neat though. i really would love to see us develop a functioning model of working memory in the human brain.

Could you expand on/link to what goes wrong in the hippocampus?

What the fuck is this picture, do you know you have psychosis?

Sure but I'm about to go onto a 3.5 hour ride back home so it'll be a bit before I can respond with the links.

If this thread dies before I make it back, I doubt it will, I'll start a new thread about it.

It's the questions.
Without them the problems would not exist.
The problems are imaginary.
The questions are the devil which tortures us.
We must fight the questions, not the problems.

google.com.br/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=dopamine desensitization

Consider this: you are walking down the street, some lad you knew asks you "How are you doing?", and you say "Well and good". Now, considering you have things to do, goals to meet, money to make, hobbies to develop, basically considering the amount of things you have to be or do, and that you desire these things, and that every desire is obviously painful, you are, in no meaning of the words,"Well" nor "Good". Now consider we all say "Well and Good" to these questions, but we all also have goals, jobs, hobbies, tasks and etc. This is a contradiction. We can't answer "Well!" nor "Good!" to these questions otherwise we are massively rewarding our brains with Dopamine! And if we do this on a daily basis, we are effectively desensitizing receptors! This mindset that basically nirvana, or being "alright", is something we can talk about implies we are internally getting high often and before the time! Destruction caused by this happens on any scale, hedonism is a trait of a falling civilization, the next step is nihilism, war, then back to... tribalism, civilization, hedonism etc

>Saying "Well!" or "Good!" releases Dopamine

Definitely a real illness, but it is diagnosed so ridiculously often that I can rarely take it seriously. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that 1/3 of the people I know are prescribed antidepressants.
When I went through opiate withdrawal, my doctor wanted to prescribe an SSRI that wouldn't really be active for a few weeks, even though I knew that the depressed stage of withdrawal would be over within the first week.

I think Depression is actually for the most part just physiological and social behaviour which could also be seen as physiological.

For instance, ask a depressed person if they have:

- eaten
- showered
- did some satisfying work (mental)
- did something satisfying regarding the body like sports etc.
- drank enough water
- relieved stress (through hobbies etc)
- met with people they like and which support them in their lifestyle
- are you happy with your lifestyle, if not change something about it

That's it for the most part. Yeah I understand that there can be more reasons etc like inflammation or reduced brain regions or chemical imbalances but in my opinion most of the depressed people would not be depressed if these factors would be appreciated enough

Excuse me while I get high

"Well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good"

Oh man I'm really feeling this shit guys. You gotta try this.

>google.com.br/search?client=ubuntu
lol nice botnet

Continuing

After days of over-releasing dopamine, desensitization takes place. The first aspect of dopamine rush is euphoria/mania, something we often do in social environments and alone, and it is not looked bad upon unless it is an extreme, clear, case. Eventually, we all get tired of it, but we forget the mistakes that we make that are similar to those of lower cognition due to psychosis. This self-induced mania is similar to what is called "Stimulant Psychosis". Currently, for example, there are already 3 studies that relate low caffeine usage with psychosis symptoms, yet these go unperceived, under the radar most of the time, and you would think to yourself of these events such thoughts: "you were just having fun", "mistakes are normal" etc. Anyway, we get tired of it, and by getting tired of it, I mean a "come down" happens, by tolerance and lower blood levels of dopamine. After a few days, the daily retrospection shows us that we are in fact getting sad, even though our brains doing the same old "fun and games" thing everyday. The daily retrospection causes two things then: one, a radical increase in "Fun activity", and by radical I mean new occupations with varied adrenaline inducing activity and not only the increase of the same activity expected from mindless desensitization; two, pessimism. Sheer and pure pessimism is expected, all your senses will tell you that satisfaction with life is going downhill, so you are getting ready for a great horror show that is inescapable, inexorable, impending, and deeply imminent somehow. Your mind constantly reminds you of this and call it "reality", your experience tells you this and you are just plain angry and waiting for kicks.

youtube.com/watch?v=sVVH51wctLc

It identifies as "ubuntu" what is actually Lubuntu

lol yeah well nice, uh, nice

>ANECDOTE ALERT
Well all the depressed people I know are sedentary yes.
Also I'm the only slim person in my family which are full of depressed people. I don't feel depressed but i probably would be if i let myself go

Just watch this video Sapolsky gives a extraordinary explanation of both the biology angle and psychology angle of depression.

I'm finally back.

Just for convenience I'm only going to be putting the last names and dates of the studies since I'm getting the list from a book but last time I looked I was able to find them all with just basic google searching.

So I'm sure you already know about how the hippocampus is connected to learning and emotion. Well it is found that those with major depressive disorder have a smaller sized hippocampus. This seems to be because they have lower amounts of what is called brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) which is important for the functioning of the hippocampus. These low levels of BDNF cause the shrinking and for the decreased functioning in synaptic plasticity, learning and proliferation of new neurons in the hippocampus (Sen, Duman, & Sanacora, 2008).

SSRIs and other anti depressive medications seem to reverse this process and restore the hippocampus's size and function. When you block the ability of the brain to produce new neurons outright, these medications no longer have any behavioral changes which suggest the main benefit comes from allowing the hippocampus to produce more cells (Airan et al., 2008). How this actually happens is still questionable. Some studies have shown that SSRIs increase the amount of BDNF in the brain after a few weeks, which is how long the drugs take to actually do anything, while others have failed to find this result. Also studies which directly administered BDNF still could not replicate the full beneficial effects of the medications.

This jumble of data gives rise to many interesting theories with one being that this may explain more than anything else, the persistent mind frame of depression. Perhaps the stunted hippocampus can no longer unlearn the depressive behavioral activities which it is now stuck with. If so, treating this problem only allows for the real healing to occur via new learning of different behavioral tendencies. But this whole paragraph is pure speculation.

whoa

Yes, it never goes away

Made up disease used by the pharma jew to push pills and narcissistic millenials for attention whoring.

>A real illness?
No.

An "illness" diagnosed by ill people

?

inflammation pathways go into overdrive

this is actually a very interesting part of it

Extremely well spoken. Actually one of the best presented lectures I have ever seen.

I really have to think about this. On one hand, this guy is totally right. On another hand I feel I know what the source of my depression is, and when I have addressed it in the past, it seems to get better, as in I am not satisfying a need. I guess you could say the pathology is why do I not satisfy the need, but this is where the "learned helplessness" comes in. In my situation I very much want to make a difference, I just don't see how for both physical and emotional reasons. It causes me a great deal of stress, and I haven't found a way to be ok with it. I guess this is exactly what he's talking about, but for some reason I still have a knee-jerk reaction to the thought of medication, which is somewhat embarrassing as a scientist.

I've been diagnosed with:
ADD [No H]
Social Anxiety
Major Depression
Bipolar I and II
NOS Borderline Traits
NOS Narcissistic Traits
Paranoid Personality Disorder
PTSD
Severe Depression

100% bullshit.
I was a social gadfly that questioned people's grandiosity, double standards, etc... and I was labeled "a trouble maker" and ended up being bullied and drugged.

Not only did I not report symptoms of any kind [the diagnosticians lied all over the reports], but they also lied and stated I was suicidal even though I said I wasn't.
Main reason they lied?
1.) Money [medicare, medicare and grant fraud]
2.) Munchhausen Heroism; pretending that oppressing people is a form of helping them

I was held back, segregated and expelled numerous times, being told staff didn't need "evidence" [serious problem in modern education system anyone?] and that being labeled proved [social proof; stereotyping] I was to blame for everyone elses problems.

At one point my adoptive mother called to curse me out in boarding school claiming I used witchcraft or computer hacking to hide her keys from her and place late night charges on her credit cards.
I was 2000 miles away.

Psychiatrists and Psychologists are just hyperbolic narcissists that abuse people's self esteem or social outcasts desperation.
They reject testimonies of the accused, state people are always guilty even when proven innocent, and are repulsed by the idea of having to create "tests" to prove their allegations.

Most psyche patients aren't messed up, modern society has just gotten competitive and hyper-fascist.

Do I want to be "normal" in an anti-science, anti-philosophy, anti-testing society, self-obsessed, fallacy-using?
Fuck no.

Take your pills schizo

>schizo
I have never diagnosed "schizo", and your ad hominem is just that.

You sound like that paranoid kid from the last thread.
You know delusions you're delusions aren't real right?

I have no delusions.
If people are accusing me, then the burden of proof is on them.
You can't shake me with accusations or allegations, nor conjecture.
Everything you say must be backed by evidence.
Me denying accusations is never a sign of anything.

>You sound like that paranoid kid from the last thread.
Are you seriously suggesting that I'm to be held accountable for someone else's actions?

>You know delusions you're delusions aren't real right?
That's not English, try again.

Chemical Imbalance Fallacies:
>Nor-epinephrine fallacy
>Serotonin fallacy
>Hormone fallacy

20:00
Lunatic claims the brains reacts the same way as when someone has been gored by an elephant... without proving it or suggesting they even looked into it.

28:30
This lunatic actually promotes Lobotomies and claims they work, even though all research proves this isn't the case.
He even tried to differentiate it from the specific Frontal Lobotomy to save face.

38:15
"...maybe treatment helps may 30-35% of depressives. It doesn't effect the majority of depressives."

39:00
He actually cites Freud.

So what you have is a guy that admits the science doesn't check out [30-35%], believes in lobotomies and Freud.

...

I'm not edgy in the slightest.
Telling people they're wrong and they have to prove things is never, under any circumstances, "edgy".
>Posts childish image and makes an ad hominem attack
Ooh! You got me.
Not really.

This is what is really going on in the messed up head of psychiatrists.
Pure unadulterated extreme narcissism and condescension.

You really don't know what the hell you're talking about.
First of all, you can't just call something a fallacy and pretend you're making an argument.
>Lunatic claims the brains reacts the same way as when someone has been gored by an elephant... without proving it or suggesting they even looked into it.
Actually he's not saying the brain reacts the same way, he's saying that your BODY is reacting the same way. He's saying your body's state is the same. And he HAS looked into it. He's dedicated his whole professional life to studying the stress response, which is exactly what he's explaining here.
>This lunatic actually promotes Lobotomies
Nope. Not sure what lecture you heard, but you heard wrong. He goes on about cingulotomy and how it can help in extreme situations, but that's mostly to prove a point about the biological workings of depression.
>maybe treatment helps may 30-35% of depressives.
Yes. And he's correct. What he's explaining is that if you simply take a biological view of the disease (treating the brain with drugs), you're completely ignoring the psychological side of it which is equally if not more important. To see it as a purely biological or purely psychological condition is a mistake. That's pretty much the point of his lecture.
>He actually cites Freud.
That's not an argument. Why don't you try refuting what he said about the Freudian view of melancholia / guilt. "Aggression turned inward"

Look at this ANCHORING HEURISTICS "defend the authority!" anti-science bullshit.

>First of all, you can't just call something a fallacy and pretend you're making an argument.
Actually, well known concepts in the field don't need to be argued. They're called principals.
The "chemical imbalance myth" isn't supported by the scientific consensus, and no one needs to go on more billions of pages with copypasta.
The ______ fallacy concept is used in epistemology discussions in such a way that people are supposed to do cross comparative analysis and research on their own time, as to not waste the time of people more educated than them.
*sigh*

>Actually he's not saying the brain reacts the same way, he's saying that your BODY is reacting the same way.
That doesn't change the fact it's a lie because they haven't studied what bodies or minds go through when impaled by elephants, he just jumps to that assumption.
You can't make a claim without testing it.
That's how science works. In fact, that's only how science works.

>Cingulotomy and how it can help in extreme situations, but that's mostly to prove a point about the biological workings of depression.
Which is a type of lobotomy, which have been proven ineffective. He also goes on to state it's just basically brain damage and doesn't fix anything, it just causes more problems.

>Yes. And he's correct. What he's explaining
Blah blah blah... aka, he's full of shit and you're a authority-fanboy who doesn't understand only science is an authority, conjecture is never authority, nor are the unproven claims of ANY humans.
*yawn*

>That's not an argument.
Yes it is. Nothing freud or anyone in the social science have offered proof, evidence nor scientific laws to support their bizarre claims.
No proof? Not science.

>nothing to do with 'chemical balance in the brain' or any of that junk

How can it not be a chemical imbalance in the brain? It's chemicals that make us feel happy and sad - it's chemicals that make us feel anything.

Given what we know about chemicals like dopamine, seratonin, oxytocin, norepinephrine, etc., it stands to reason that a prolonged depressive episode with no discernible environmental stimuli causing it must have something to do with a chemical imbalance.

ITT: obviously depressed people. Therefore depression is a real illness mofo.

I think depression is over diagnosed. A lot of times its from a false sense of entitlement. I do think depression is real, but I also think a lot of people are fucking crybabies.

NO NO NO NO.
It's [environmental] stimulus that triggers our brain that then triggers both chemical reactions AND our thought process.

THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED A "REACTION".

WHY IS SCI FILLED WITH STUPID PEOPLE?!

What is it: An umbrella term for not liking things and not reacting to things.

Real Illness: About 30% of time. The remaining 70% is just rational people having concerns that aren't being addressed appropriately, but the those with better lives think they should just shut up.

Personal Experience: I've been diagnosed. I don't think I have a brain disease. My complaints are rational and backed by scientific data.

Causes: Memories of bad things, and knowledge of bad things to come.

What I was referring to was the type of depressive episodes which people experience when nothing is going wrong in their life - hence, there is no DISCERNIBLE environmental stimuli causing the depression. How fucking dumb are you?

But that account for only 30% of so called depressives.
The "out of the blue" blues doesn't affect the majority of those diagnosed.
You can't take the smallest minority of a subject and cry
>EUREKA! It's X!
Stop spreading misinformation, you gigantic probably-caused-the-deaths-of-dozens-of-people asshole.
LOOSE LIPS KILL PEOPLE
Seriously. Millions die of iatrogenesis and misinformation every year.
Stop being a jackass.

There are a lot of people with a huge problem to explain why they have a depression while everything seems perfect.

The minority is not the majority.
Also, the statistics lie.
I was told I said I was depressed on my medical files.
I never said that. Decades went by and I said I wasn't again, and they recorded that, but said I must have severe depression because I said I wasn't depressed.
They institutionalized me and charged the tax payers $40,000 for a 10 day stay where that just threatened me, laughed at me, and made up lies about my past on the paperwork.

Psychiatry is a hoax when it comes to the diagnostic process, and that's an absolute fact.
It's a hoax used to commit fraud to fain access to money and control others.
That's the Government's opinion, as they created the HEAT Task Force as they have arrested hundreds of psychiatrists and psychiatric nurses for abuse, cooking the books and bribing officials.
Over 2 billion dollars are wasted a year on psychiatric fraud alone, the highest fraud that has been discovered in human history.
About 10% of people diagnosed are actually ill.
The remaining 90% are just bullied for reporting bullying or social ills.
Deal with the truth, as modern psychiatry isn't going to be here long with all the arrests and de-certification going on.

What the actual fuck are you talking about? Seriously - all I'm saying is that there is clearly a chemical/biological aspect to major depression. Are you trolling or something?

Oh nevermind, you're just batshit insane. My bad. Carry on.

[...continuing]
Also, psychiatrists that hear about exploitation, abuse and lying on records often EXCUSE that behavior, citing psychopathic machiavellian beliefs that the ends justify the means to spread the practice, control and influence of their trade.
It's pure psychopathic narcissism, and there are arrest, court and medical records to prove it without a doubt.
If you support a corrupt practice then you don't support science.
Science is only about truth, not money, control or narcissistic dreams.

Ad hominem attack.
The HEAT Taskforce is a Government Task Force used to take down fraud in the Medical Field.
On average they take down 200 doctors and medical staff a year, and over 80% of that are those in the psychiatric field.
In psychiatric journals their compatriots often resort to "is it really wrong to commit fraud for money or to help someone by abusing them" nonsense.
Facts are facts.
Your ad hominem is irrational.

Does it suck screaming so loudly for so long only to realize no one is listening? It must really suck. I'm sorry man.

See
He posted facts, you're posting personal attacks.
You have no idea how truth is discerned.
Truth is only discovered via testing, never by presumption.

>a reddit thread
>facts

Jesus Christ what has this board come to...

I'm not screaming.
HEAT Task Force is how the officials capitalized it.
You would know that if you were intelligent and looked it up.
Do you have more personal attacks?
Yes, because you're pro-psychiatry and a troll.
Fun fact: you can't stop using ad hominem attacks.

Does it suck being a psychopath that doesn't understand either the scientific method or the socratic method?

More pro-psychology/therapy, actually. Psychiatry leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

You're still an autistic psychopath ;)

>reddit
what are you taking about

Gaslighting doesn't work online, especially with people that have genius IQs.
If user knows what fallacies are, then you can't troll them.
That's an infallible fact.

I've made two posts in this thread and neither of them had anything to do with what you're attacking me on - you're just assuming shit. Not very scientific of you there, buddy.

I was linked to this It was presented as "facts."

It's a reddit thread. Are you fucking retarded?

The post () is comparing you to the reddit screenshot because of your reply ().

I mean at this point I'm 85% sure I'm dealing with a troll, but if not you're just so damn delusional that I'm actually impressed either way.
You obviously read a book or wiki on logical fallacies recently and are trying very hard to flex that argument muscle so hard that you're intentionally ignoring perhaps the most important fallacy - the fallacy fallacy, which states that even fallacious arguments can arrive at true conclusions.
I could literally cite dozens of studies which have been peer-reviewed, utilized the most modern of scientific techniques, and which haven't been paid for by big pharma... but would that change your mind? If your answer is no, then you're not interested in evidence and hence not interested in science.
>That doesn't change the fact it's a lie because they haven't studied what bodies or minds go through when impaled by elephants, he just jumps to that assumption. You can't make a claim without testing it.
>That's how science works. In fact, that's only how science works.
You know what? I agree with you. He should have said "when bodies are under serious physical trauma", which is a situation that has been studied and tested over and over again. Instead he chose a very specific serious physical trauma that hasn't technically been studied on its own. But honestly every single person in the audience understood that he meant that the condition he was referring to was "serious physical trauma" and not SPECIFICALLY being gored by an elephant. He was saying that depression causes the same type of stress response as serious physical trauma. This has been scientifically tested. And once again I can cite numerous studies.
>Blah blah blah... aka, he's full of shit and you're a authority-fanboy
Ad hominem, homie.

Seriously dude. I'd love to see ANY evidence of what you're claiming. Double blind if possible. Peer-reviewed, please.

no

It wasn't ad hominem - it was supported by evidence.

You freely admitted that you were institutionalized. No one, I mean NO ONE just "gets institutionalized" for no reason in this day and age. You clearly had something very wrong with you. Then you go on to claim that you were ridiculed and had professionals make up "lies" about you on your paperwork? Incredibly unlikely - coming from someone who knows how the mental health field works. The only way your story is plausible is if you're from some ass backwards, shit tier third world country. Otherwise it completely reeks of delusions of persecution and grandiosity - two primary indicators of severe mental illness.

And of course you say nothing is wrong with you - anosognosia is also common in people like yourself.

The sad thing is, you will never understand or be able to see any of this - as your mental illness prevents you from doing so. So please, continue if it makes you feel better.

no m8

Is it depression if my life objectivly sucks?