Cars - Lease or Buy (Used) ?

Cars are a waste of money

Buy a helicopter you pussy

This guy is smart. Use google if you think leasing when you drive low milage is dumb. The only thing you could do better is outright buy a car with almost no milage that is 1-2 years old.

Anyone who says otherwise is retarded

A Toyota Yaris, 10 years old and 100k miles. Looking at an Audi A3/A4, or golf allttack/Passat with a 1.8 tsi in either, I think the Passat has better leg room in the back and I now have a kid so I need to consider that. A3 would be a 1.5 tfsi, a4 would be a 1.8.

I don’t travel much, but I figure my years commute is roughly 9000km, so I’ll take 15000km (just under 10k miles).

Around the 300-450 Euro mark. But preferably lower end.

Youre asking wether renting or owning is better?

Buying a new car is almost as bad
But at least the car belongs to you after the loan.
Leasing is far more expensive and you never end up with an asset.

This works well in the UK where the market is filled with 3 year old 3 series and c class mercs with 30k miles for 12k a pop.

Buying a new car is worse than leasing unless you keep it for 8 years.

The other option is a 2-3 year old low mileage car, but if you finance that you might still be out for more... and you’ll still need to hold it for 5 years to make a profit on leasing.

You don't own your car until you pay off the loan either. By then you'll be needing a new car but you paid fucking premiums compared to lease

This. Not to mention the resale or trade in of your “asset” will be basically nothing by then unless it’s a luxury vehicle or sports car. Top kek.

I'm not arguing a new car is a good investment.
Buying new cars is how normies stay poor forever.
My twin sister (fraternal) buys a new car every 3 years and is consistently in debt.
Instead of blowing money on a lease or a new car, buy something cheap that works and invest the money you saved.

What’s the best option for money saving then? I’ve got a PCP on a Scirrocco R for £285/month after a £2.5k deposit. By god I fucking love this car and it gives me an orgasm every time I drive it but Christ I regret paying this much. Not to mention I only get like 30 mpg (I know that’s probably good for Americans cos you retards stick a V8 in everything and get like 20 mpg, but in the UK we’re used to getting like 70mpg from a decent diesel, plus fuel is way more expensive here).

If the aim is to save money long term are you best leasing, or buying something with 60k miles on the clock from 2008 that’s not gonna depreciate much more, only with the risk of more mechanical failures?

If you want to lease, lease a older car that already took the depreciation hit
And pay it off in 24 months, not more, and if possible in less time

or you could all stop being consumerist whores and buy a cheap second hand long lasting car like a Toyata up front. So no sales tax and cheap to buy. Fucking retards

I know what you’re arguing. Both are bad ideas. You don’t save money, you just trick yourself into thinking you are.

Over a 10 or 20 year period you’re paying more than someone who leases, almost guaranteed.

I know boomer car salesman (that USED to be salesman in the 70s and 80s) that are convinced this is a way to save money. And they’re paying more in maintenance annually than I am on 3 years worth of lease payments.

Meanwhile executives/corporate management I’ve met irl that work at Audi are leasing their vehicles. Owning is a total boomer meme, unless you drive a ton of miles and need to literally drive a car into the ground for your job.

See

>And they’re paying more in maintenance annually than I am on 3 years worth of lease payments.
What the fuck kind of absolute shit boxes are they driving?

Used Toyota’s, etc. whatever meme car you’re supposed to buy that’s “reliable” lmao. The maintenance always catches up with used vehicles and then voila, you’re instantly worse off than if you had just leased.

Buy if you know how to work on them yourself, preferably used.

Lease if you're a yuppy retard that grew up with clueless parents.

>trouble shooting and working on a 1 ton metal machine that can crush me or mangle my hand with the slightest fuck up
>what is value of time
>what is risk
>how much are my hands worth?

Kek. I’ll let the dealership work on my car (without spending a dime) while I trade and manage my business. Thanks though.

This desu. I’m happy to pay for peace of mind. I’d be better off picking up a few hours of consulting work instead of spending time fixing a car.

Buy a MG3/MG6 or a Dacia Duster

>Buy a MG3/MG6
hahahahahahahhahaahhahaahaaaaa!!!!!11!!!1!!1!

>spending money on depreciating assets
You're doing it wrong. Just buy a used Civic.

>not owning a jack and jackstands and knowing where to put them
>what is the value of knowledge
>with knowledge, comes less risk, as in business
>dealership wanted 9k to drop a used engine in my rex while I was able to just rebuild it using a new shortblock for $3800. Also addressed all of the rust above the engine/drivetrain while it was out and replaced every dry-rotted rubber hose
>280k miles on it and the thing runs like brand new
To each their own I guess. I enjoy solving problems. While everyone was pink wojack posting, I cashed out and had something to occupy my mind. Bought the dip, doing just fine.

your two options are:
>buy a used car with 70k miles max for the salvage value (yes people are dumb enough to sell this)
>lease with good credit

for me, it is the lease.

>1 ton metal machine
kek r u driving a dune buggy or a koenigsegg one:1?

The thing is, if you lease a used vehicle a couple of years old it actually ends up being cheaper in the longer term 10-20 years, once you account for depreciation. I had the same exact problem when deciding whether to lease or buy used here in the UK, and it actually worked out cheaper if I lease and plus I get a drive a better quality car. Leasing is hassle free, and I'm paying about £250/pm (around 4% of my monthly income) to drive a car which costs £23k+ to buy outright. So you do the maths.

>this is what underage children actually believe

>t. boomer using cd rom tray on his emachines tower as a cup holder

Who hit ?

I financed a Suzuki Celerio with upgrades (like aircondition. And a multimedia center that isn't touch + bluetooth phone stuff)

It's pretty fucking basic, has a weak engine, but it gets good milage and is pretty comfy to sit in compared to the 15-20 years old shitboxes I was driving before that required constant maintnance and costed me MORE in yearly expenses including buying than this car does in monthly payments (and it has 7 years guarantee on all critical parts inclding the aircon)

It gets me from A to B cheaply and that is really all I care for when push comes to shove.

Now I have more money for fun stuffs and don't have to worry about maintnance issues for the next 3-5 years

Leasing a car would cost at least 50-150 dollars more pr month, and if I fucked up the car I would risk some heavy bills

leasing and/or buying new cars is a form of cuckoldry, perpetuated by a society obsessed with status.
owning tools and keeping your baby running is god-tier
invest in tools
invest in learning a trade, even if you're a white collar fuck like myself. AI may well take your job at some point in the future. Not being a complete helpless slave will help you weather the storm.

Poorfag and paranoid

>AI is going to take your job
>AI cars won’t automate driving and render your used car you own literally worth it’s weight in scrap metal over night

Old folks always have the most creative stories.

>Leasing a car would cost at least 50-150 dollars more pr month, and if I fucked up the car I would risk some heavy bills
if you fuck up your financed car, you'd be stuck paying the rest of your loan with no means of transportation.

This, not to mention if you’re paying more for a lease than something is wrong with your math or the dealership has bad offers. Makes no sense.

I have leased several high end vehicles over the last 10 years. Currently driving a Tesla. Thankfully I am able to expense over 50% of my automobile costs under my business.

My advice will always be to lease for the duration of the warranty. You end up never having to pay a cent for repairs, this is where you come out ahead.

Anecdotal, but a friend of mine just purchased a used Honda from a family member who serviced the vehicle regularly. Within 6 months he has already shelled out $2000 in repairs and maintenance and he uses the vehicle less than 30 miles per day, total.

Lease for 3 years. No worries about extraneous costs. Financial preparedness is key and most vehicles will leave you cash poor.

How do you justify expensing your lease? I’ve thought about doing this.

I could've paid to have it fixed or sold it to lease, but chose to save ~4K. I bet I have less money wrapped up in my transportation than anyone on this board of useful idiots

>Accountants and lawyers will be the first to go
>GPS isn't vulnerable
I bet it pisses you off that I drive a stick too. Can't wait till all you fuckers are stuck in the slow lane with your cuckmobiles while I get to enjoy the freedom of literally zero idiots on cruise control in the fast lane.

>he thinks the inevitability of automated cars won’t make his insurance so prohibitively expensive that he literally won’t be able to afford to drive a meat sack controlled vehicle

Hah, good one gramps.

20-30% of it give or take thanks to insurance

With a leased car you can risk having to pay for a repaint if the paint is scratched. With a financed car it just looks a bit more ugly but not a possible financial burden

I drive a lot, so the lease would be more expensive than the cheapest options available

Also the market has actually changed a lot in the 6 months since I got my car. Back then you could only lease the next-smallest class, like VW polo instead of the UP, which was 100 dollars more pr month than my financing plan.
Just googled it right now and I can actually lease a car in the smallest segment for about the same as my car loan, but with the point from above that I drive more miles than the cheapest plan has to offer.

Once you own the car, can't you just pay yourself a fraction of the car payment/lease up to a certain extent and forget about saddling yourself with debt?
Granted if you own a business, and have to taxi around clients, leasing a nice new car and expensing the payments under a business is the way to go, but for any wage/salary slave worth his salt, owning seems to be the smarter, more flexible choice.

>used car breaks
>repairs wipe out savings instantly
>cash poor
>start saving up for next car/inevitable repair to continue the cycle

Flexible.

I'm a business owner and where I live I can deduct the portion of my distance driven required by my business operations (about 50%). Driving between home and work is considered a personal expense, but any driving between work locations, to external meetings/visit clients/etc, is expensed. I keep track of those distances and claim them back on my taxes. The only thing I can't currently expense via this process is the electricity costs (charging the Tesla) but that is so incredibly inexpensive that I don't mind covering it out of pocket. A full off-peak (250 miles of range) charge where I live is $8.

So I claim back a percentage of my lease, insurance, a percentage of interest on the lease, etc.

Yeah, I might hop on board when I'm literally a gramps and/or over 90% of the population is driving this shit. Till then, I actually enjoy being in control and unless insurance becomes cost prohibitive for non robot cars, I'll stay right where I'm at. Have fun making last minute changes to your destination while Hal triangulates the safest place to make a U turn. Hint: you'll be late for that meeting.

>buy car used @ $280/month
>pay off in 12-24 months
>once balance has been paid, easily save $280/month for the inevitable trip to the part store, or that furnace/water heater in your closet, or the roof above your head

Doesn't it strike you odd that truly rich/smart people are never driving some current year Audi pos?

I started with lease and when I had enough money I paid it in full. Usually after a year, a year and a half. Then drove it to below 60k miles and sold it at around 70%+. That's 3-3.5 years in total.
Never bought a full option car also. Medium with some cheap extras.

definitely lease. I always bought cars in the past thinking it was the smarter move but that is only the case if you keep the same car for like 10 years and nothing goes wrong. if you get in an accident or your transmission takes a shit or any number of other things the resale value is done. you can lease an entry level mercedes for audi a3 for pretty cheap if you negotiate.

retard alert

You're not wrong. I see many of my friends in this situation and it bothers me to no end. If they would sit down and do the math, they would see an inherent advantage to leasing. The variable is always unexpected repairs, which you can't accurately predict, as I mentioned above using my friend's $2000 repairs as an example.

I don't treat my lease as traditional debt (moreso just a monthly expense) because of 2 factors 1) term (short enough that it doesn't hamper my long term financial positioning), and 2) market flexibility. There are numerous options to offload a lease. In many cases I can pay for a month or two up front for someone else to take over my lease on the open market. Sure, it's not ideal, but its an option should my employment change or should I need to free up $ from my planned expenses.

There are really affordable options out there for those of you considering a lease, especially if you aren't obsessed with performance, handling, etc. Look at the updated Chevy Volt on a 3/4 year lease and calculate your expected expenses, then factor in the government EV incentives from your expected expenses and see how much your money gets you. It's actually quite mind boggling how many people are overlooking the value of that vehicle, as well as the Bolt, Honda Clarity, etc.

Fuck yeah awesome man. Had no idea it’s so cheap to charge them either, amazing.

Kekd.

So basically you’re making a payment every single month even after you paid off the car just to account for inevitable maintenance and to pay for the next car, meaning you always have a payment (just like a lease) but will have none of the benefits of a lease (zero maintenance, etc).

Sounds like you got it all figured out desu.

how is buying a used japanese shitbox for 18K more expensive over 10 years than perpetually leasing nicer cars?

Go look at the Honda Clarity. Seriously.

There is some awful, just awful advice in this thread. Anyone telling you to do anything with CarMax to make $$$ is a moron. That's not how leasing or CarMax work.

Here is the very simple version: if you're going to do nothing but 3-year leases on new cars (with something like 10k/year mileage) and compare that to someone buying with a typical 5-year car loan... the leaser is going to pay about 15% per year and they will get a new car after the 3rd year. The buyer is going to pay 20% per year for 5 years. They will pay nothing after the 6th year. They will have no mileage restrictions.

Things to consider.

* how much do you drive? you must have a good estimate of your annual mileage.
* how important is the car to you? is it a major hobby? is it just really important to you to have a sweet ride? do you think you'll keep the car for 8-10 years, or are you the person that definitely wants a new car every few years?
* be realistic about your economic prospects over the next few years. actual $$$ matter, not % increases in salary. the potential for a 20% raise on your $10/hr McDonald's salary isn't the same as someone else that will make an actual $25k more per year.
* does your state have an annual car tax? how much is it?

I’ll check it out, almost ready for a new car soon anyway.

The point is, I get to choose what happens with my money and repairs always cost less in the long run as opposed to constantly re-upping a new loan with the (((banks)))

>That's not how leasing or CarMax work.

Stopped reading. You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

leasemorecarforlessmoney.com/flip/

Clarity plugin will get you the $7,500 in federal rebates + state incentives depending on your location.

In Ontario, where I am, they cut you a $14,000 rebate, even on a 3 year lease. Some dealers allow you to knock it off the vehicle price, others require you to submit the rebate personally. I got a $14,000 cheque in the mail 6 months after leasing my Tesla. Not a bad reduction in total cost :)

Incredible. Lease rates on the Clarity are even cheaper than what I’m paying now. +1

will you faggots kindly respond:

god dammit, meant this:

Read the thread new Veeky Forumslet this entire thread is basically explaining that very question repeatedly in different ways.

you buy a 4 year old honda straight up for 18K, or you make a 500 dollar lease payment on some audi shit box every month for a decade...

10 years later that's 60K on the audis *without down payments* which would more likely take it to 75K minimum. how in the actual fuck is this cheaper?

you think maintenance on a low mile honda civic will be 50 thousand dollars over a decade? top kek

Why are you comparing a shit box to an Audi? This board is 18+.

Granted, my way of saving money does require an upfront investment in learning how to do repairs myself and owning, or knowing someone who owns the tools to get the job done. I owned my current vehicle outright for about 3 years before having to do any major repairs and I drive a shit ton. I had 3 years of preparation and saving before any costly repairs cropped up and since I had zero labor costs, it was really painless. Got to learn more about repairing my shit in the process. When my roof took a crap last year from hale damage and insurance only covered part of it, I didn't have to sweat bullets or take out a loan because I had the sort of financial freedom you only get after you're no longer a loan slave.

It's not for everyone, but if you're the least bit handy, you could figure it out. Even doing your own maintenance saves a little bit of money and it builds character. Women still love a guy that can hold his own like this. Especially since it's becoming so rare, as evidence in this thread.

Even though I make around 100K/year now, I still live like I did when I got started in life at 40k. Except now, I don't have to rely on loans for life's "oh shit" moments and can afford to do things with the money I save if I feel like it.

that article id corny. but can you please send me any links you have on "the next BitCoin"!?!??!

no. seriously - it's kind of true. if you can find the car and predict which ones will have big demand ahead of time. i leased a 350Z in 2004 and by 2006 the Nissan dealerships were horny as fuck to buy it back from me.

99.9% of people want to get a vehicle to drive - make the right choice - and not spend their time trying to become a car flipper. FFS you must know this, right?

even if it was a 200 dollar payment that's 24K, plus down payments getting you to probably 30K. that doesn't account for inflation either.

you've still gotta cover a gap of $12K and you're saying that will come in maintenance costs on a low mileage honda over a decade?

Why are you comparing two entirely different cars? No one will deny that owning a 4 year old Honda is cheaper than leasing an Audi?

DYOR, you don’t understand how leases work or how much used cars cost over their lifespan. I didn’t understand this either when I was 16.

Same here with my current vehicle, might flip it at the end of lease.

France?

flipping the house you live in is wayyyy more profitable.

leasing a brand new honda is also more expensive than buying a 4-year-old honda is my point.

this thread is full of brainlets who seem to unironically think leasing a brand new car is cheaper than buying a used car of the same make and model.

Oh is this the real estate thread..?

Kek

Just buy a car at an auction

>body shop owner

Ah yes you’re much smarter than us, enjoy buying my lease I red lined on the reg after I turn it in and paying for the impossible to predict maintenance. I’ll be in a brand new vehicle paying less than you over a 10-20 year period.

Ford diesel trucks hold value better than anything else. Mostly because you can drive for several years and then sell to commercial outfit.

look faggot, when you lease a car, you put down a down payment, and you have a monthly lease payment based on the number of miles you're allotted. it's likely cheaper than financing the exact same brand new car and no one is arguing that.

my argument is that, over a 10-year period, it's cheaper to purchase an older car of the same make and model than to lease 3 brand new cars.

leasing 3 brand new cars in a row and thinking you are saving money is fucking retarded user.

...

Nah, just saying the margins on flipping cars are terrible. They're just a money pit that depreciates to their eventual scrap metal value. 20 years max life unless you bought something deemed as 'classic' in the future.

you're unironically a brainlet. you don't realize that "impossible to predict maintenance" kills your entire argument. you can't claim that the maintenance will be high when it suits your argument and then "impossible to predict" when it doesn't suit your argument.

fucking redditor-tier logic, kys

I’m not about to do the math for you, this thread is full of people who have done it themselves and made the smart choice. Keep being emotionally attached to your idea of owning a vehicle though, being naively romantic is one of the things you should treasure about your youth.

>gets btfo
>i-i'm not gonna debate with you, i-i'm just right because i feel right

You got it all figured out smart guy.

>t. Eternally rent paying goyim

VW GTI.

Lots of these anons know little about what they're talking about. Researching the used vehicle you will buy is key. Look for a manufacturer that uses the same engine block across a large variety of make/model/years (high volume when it comes to parts usually equates to lower costs of repairs). Literally do a what if scenario for the worst possible repair and find out what an engine/transmission rebuild would take. Unknown costs are now known. Now compare. Purchase a single owner vehicle that has low miles. Take note of how well the previous owner kept the vehicle. Ask the dealer to put it on a lift so you can inspect underneath for rust and general fuckery. Never buy a used fleet vehicle. You may think you're getting a good deal because it's thousands less than the single owner vehicle, but I redline every rental car I get just for kicks, along with every other dumbass out there. Be smart and save money.

Just got a used audi. Low miles, feels brand new, comes with a 3 year warranty and it's only $240 a month. Highly recommend

3 year lease

Then lambo when lease is up

Also, never buy the first-gen of anything. Before we were married, my wife went out and bought a brand new latest and greatest vehicle because "muh maintenence" and the thing wound up in the shop over 90 days with CEL codes related to the transmission in the first few weeks. The dealer ended up having to just give her a completely different new car and I hate the fucking thing. Looking for something with a tried and true engine/drivetrain platform is a good indicator that the manufacturer hasn't had many problems with it, which again will likely equate to less maintenance costs down the road. Change the fucking oil every 5,000 miles even if it's synthetic and the manufacturer says it can go 15,000. Oil is cheap, fuck the environment, they recycle that shit now.