Redpill me on gold, Veeky Forums

We aren't, but ((they)) are.

Human society is a dynamic information system with emergent organisation - money is essentially a concept substrate for information. The material of that substrate is important. If you throw enough time and societal complexity at any point on the globe in any time in history for any civilisation capable of building a 2 story building they've all ended up using gold and silver. Why? If you actually go through the periodic table it makes perfect sense why they were the only candidates (copper included).

Fiat paper systems have existed and alternative substrates however they never last too long as civilisations because of the potential to abuse the money supply. It's why the US is slowly turning into shit before your very eyes. Will crypto replace gold? I think it'll be a fucking improvement over paper and centralised ledgers.

However at the base of it, if you just want money in it's pure, physical, indestructable form: Nothing on this planet at least can fuck with gold. The only reason you question it's value is because it's the purest point - the base of the inverted money pyramid where you can actually see the nature of the philosophical question: What is the value of money?

Some simple use case rules evolved to make gold and silver money:

1. Can't be a gas.
2. Can't corrode in the air.
3. Can't burst into flames in the air.
4. Can't kill you.
5. Has to be rare.

That leaves you with: Rhodium, Palladium, Silver, Platinum and Gold. Rhodium and Palladium weren't discovered until the 1800s. Platinum's a fucker to fashion into anything because it melts at 3000 degrees so couldn't coin it.

Which left gold and silver. Which is why in the etymology of most languages it exists in some form for cash (usually silver actually).

1. Pound Sterling - (1lb .925 alloy Sterling Silver - Sterling from the "Starling" a small silver coin minted to pay off vikings).

2. L'Argent (French word for money. Also the French word for Silver.)

3. Geld (German word for money. Also the German word for Gold).

4. Plata (Spanish slang for cash. Also the Spanish word for Silver).

5. Dinero (Spanish word for money. Based on the standard issue silver roman coin the Denarius).

6. Dinar (Currency unit in seven Islamic and two Orthodox Christian countries - similar to Spanish based on the Roman on the standard issue silver roman coin the Denarius.)

7. 银行 (Yinhang) (Chinese for Bank but also Silver Broker - 银 (Yin) meaning Silver).

8. $ - (Symbol for the United States dollar, S - Silver, dollar denoting a unit exchange for 371.25 grains (troy) fine silver).

I'm sure there are other examples however basically materials science, sociology and the inherited history of not just your language and culture but those of civilized societies all across the planet have all recognised Silver and Gold as money. Gold as the currency of Kings. Silver as the currency of Gentlemen. Copper or barter for peasants. Debt for slaves. You just happen to be living in one of the many brief aberrations from this patterns in history - however it is a unique moment in history and I have no doubt cryptocurrencies and blockchain will be hugely important.

The Rothschild's did decide the price of gold until about decade ago. Was like how the fed decides interest rates

Gold was bought in the past by states as a store of value. Probably they aren't buying large amounts anymore.
The interesting point is that they can't sell all of their gold because that would cause a huge drop in price. England tried this and as a consequence the price went down (see : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sale_of_UK_gold_reserves,_1999–2002). Actually central banks agreed not to sell their gold.
The point is that gold has both a material and an immaterial value (i.e. as symbol of store of value) and the latter is more important.To prove this you should read the statute of the european central bank (it's established a gold reserve which has of course only a symbolical meaning)

you should look up also "gold standard" on google

majority is held by me nigga

Thank you for posting this!

>The interesting point is that they can't sell all of their gold because that would cause a huge drop in price
Central banks sell and fractionally reserve lend their gold all the time to suppress the price
>England tried this and as a consequence the price went down (see : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sale_of_UK_gold_reserves,_1999–2002).
England did this on purpose so that J.P.Morgan and Goldman Saches could cover their short positions
>Actually central banks agreed not to sell their gold.
its actually the complete opposite

>Why aren't we on the gold standard anymore?
Flexible tax adjustment on the worldwide dollar denominated trade economy via minting disguised as "monetary policy".

For once gold shill isn’t a complete retard

thanks desu

Also, gold derivatives killed price expectations on real gold and real gold stopped having a healthy deflation matching the expansion of the real economy.

How much % gold should you hold?

at least 10%

The global financial system at the moment is a titanic, creaking-in-the-wind, inverted house of cards of leveraged debt, upon leveraged debt, upon leveraged debt. Everything's re-hypothecated, collateralised and beared down upon by insane quantities of derivatives - and it's all interconnected.

It's like one has been building a taller and taller structure by cannibalising the very building materials from the floors below to build ones on top. Deutsche Bank is struggling at the moment and the total quantity of potentially toxic derivatives it has on its books outsizes the annual GDP of the EU by a factor of 4.

The sheer amount of it represents the growth of a debt service parasite, which, like all good parasites - has captured and anaesthetised its host. It extracts in increasing taxes, the increasing amount of debt required to live, get access to work or to be able to afford shelter. The more it can siphon from the cycle of producers and consumers the better however at this point it has become so huge people can't afford household formation or children.

You need new tax payers and more growth to keep the ponzi going so cheaper labor is imported as "refugees". Culture corrodes and decays as the pool of the productive is sucked from and diminished by the ever-increasing demands of debt service. The populism you're seeing today is the convulsive shock of a host that is starting to die under the strain. People look for simple things to blame: White men, Jews, Muslims, Feminism, Foreigners - they vote against the status quo because they don't know what's wrong with it.

And in the process of the West dying the spinal column of the global financial system is placed under increasing strain from splintering loyalties and the pressure of pent-up social disenfranchisement. That's a slow, drawn out, messy process which will shatter this system.

There is none in fort Knox. That's why they don't let audits. It's just a heavily guarded empty stronghold.

read about the gold germany tried to rehypothicate, it took them 5 years and they got back remelted gold

illuminatisilver.com/video/why-gordon-brown-sold-half-of-britains-gold-too-cheaply-browns-bottom/

Silver > Gold

What happens in that transition is anyone's guess and a question of how much one can strategically position oneself economically and militarily. However when everything's erupting and colliding and collapsing into everything else and all bets and debts are all contingent on all others - lots of institutions and people start to want something which has absolutely no credit or fiat or counter-party risk involved.

Gold just is. Silver just is. It's just physical shit which people have historically assigned value to for the reasons outlined above. It's immune to all of the risks.

Which is why China and Russia have been hoovering up so much of it - they no longer trust the financial system the US has start to mishandle and abuse and they want to be ready for it when things start to snap...

>England did this on purpose so that J.P.Morgan and Goldman Saches could cover their short positions

So was this a good idea in your opinion? Also doesn't change the fact that the price went down

Also it's true that central banks can sell their gold but not a large amount of it so basically it's worthless and has worth only as a symbol

1. No
2. No
3. Depends on what you're buying it for
4. Jews

Dont be stupid. There is no greater investment.

No it was terrible, he sold his country by basically giving away their most valuable reserve for the benefit of his globalist paymasters.
>Also doesn't change the fact that the price went down
No it doesn't, and J.P.Morgan and Goldman had only got into that position themselves by shorting gold and suppressing the prices for such a long period of time. All this price manipulation will come to an end one day though and you have got to ask your self, do you want the assets they have been suppressing and manipulating lower or the assets they have been manipulating higher? (stock market etc)

zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-04/its-not-conspiracy-theory-heres-how-central-banks-actively-suppress-price-gold

This article was written today

Well I have almost half of my savings in gold coins desu so we'll be pretty comfy. Notice that
I was not saying it's a bad investment. I was trying to explain, briefly, some of the background

TFW there is specifically 0 taxes in regards to gold and silver in my county :)

>zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-04/its-not-conspiracy-theory-heres-how-central-banks-actively-suppress-price-gold

I'll look into that

Gold is a stronger hedge against economic collapse, due to all the poorfags in crypto.

The state needs to step in to push the economy to deleverage. The system is not fundamentally fucked as long as it is still walking. Debt built up by banks, companies, consumers, all of it can be managed and renegotiated to start paying it off and getting the economy back to a moderate level of debt.

Is it realistically going to happen? Probably not, all of the huge debtors are obviously rich assholes corrupting the systems that are supposed to be separate from them and have oversight. But it "could" happen. I still don't know why /pol/ is all hopped up about debt but they vote Republicans in who are largely still in favor of deregulating banks that are just going to go fucking nuts again because they know they have a parachute.

usdebtclock.org/

why doesn't the state start by deleveraging themselves?

Trump is increasing the debt more than any other president in peacetime or economic expansion, the government is now borrowing $2,ooo,ooo per second. PER SECOND!

The state's debt doesn't matter as much as the private debt, the banks, non-federal govs and consumers have real limitations. They need money to sustain their debt, and the bigger it gets the more likely a critical upset in some part of the web causes it to unravel again.

If the state deleverages now it is just going to create more of a push for private debt build up. When they have a surplus, they're sucking money out of the economy by definition. It's excess money sitting in treasury accounts.

lol you probably have to be retarded if you don't realize they're literally making/printing/building gold from the ground up on a molecular level

they're doing the same shit they're doing with the U.S. dollar

#2018tulipmania

#yearoftheDEX

It is most assuredly possible to sort this all out - it would be painful and messy and there's be a lot of idiots out there who wouldn't understand why it has to happen in the short term for the sake of the long term. However as you say, the architecture of the state is captured by the parasite - which lives by selling this faustian bargain.

Our only hope is either in the Buckminster Fuller sense a superior system grows out of this old one which we can migrate to (perhaps crypto is that, who knows - it depends who is calling the shots on it). Or if it doesn't happen in time (fair prospect) things get a lot messier whilst in the interim ethnoreligious social tension increases until societies snap.

What is he spending it on
>prepares for the standard liberal lecture re;military and tax cuts

Post your source and how you're defining "debt".

I understand that the natl debt is not remotely all-inclusive but looking here >usdebtclock.org/
it looks like 10k/sec: nowhere near 2M.

>implying you have to be left wing to dislike trump

this, no shit

it's okay to hate all of them, you know

I did the math my self, how much the government is going to be borrowing this year devided by the number of seconds

This guy fucks

Great whats your source, and how much was borrowed?

>Yes
>No
>Because banks can't play their twisted games on the gold standard and governments have less control over their people that way.

> 525,600 minutes in a year
> 1.2 Trillion is being borrowed this year
1200000000000/525600 = 2.28 million

But you didn't say per Minute. You said per Second.
>the government is now borrowing $2,ooo,ooo per second. PER SECOND!

525,600 minutes = 31557600 seconds in a year, that puts the borrowing at around 38K/second, which again is not even close to 2M.

NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Also worth noting, since you think Trump is the first 1.2T/year president
>Obama added 1.2T to the debt in 2016, 2011 and 2012, 1.9T in 2009 and 1.7T in 2010

>GWB had the first Trillion Dollar year in 2008

Here's the source, who sources the US Treasury
polidiotic.com/by-the-numbers/us-national-debt-by-year/

>buying a premined shitcoin

We've been using Gold as currency for thousands of years.

But then again technology took off +++ in the last 100 years anyways so it's irrelevant like a lot of things.

Any clues or possibilities on a gold backed crypto?

That is pretty interesting but WHAT IF US intelligence agencies oh fuck I just realized I think it is true. i'm not going to say it oh god.

The only one I know of as of yet is Jibrel. Digital tokenization of real assets including gold.

Hey gold shill it's your boy light autist! Have you made any signs yet?

Why when you buy some gold or silver you are instantly in loss?

There are 2 interesting ones that I knw if

One company has two coins, DGD and dGX (not released yet). DGD seems to be mirroring the dollar with occasional pump and dumps. DGX is gold backed crypto coming out in the coming months from same company.

Theres another one, "One Gram", which is based on Sharia Law i.e. no usury/jewish tricks. Appears to be a closed market.

There have been 3 or 4 in the past that have failed.

I sometimes think the price of gold is low as fuck *artificially suppressed* because it would be cheap for people to dig and melt technology to harvest it.

Very bad idea - because you have to trust that magical "someone" to physically back the cryptos with gold.

My understanding is this bad idea was the basis for asset backed currencies/gold and silver certificates, which paved the way for fiat and fractional lending. In a way you're right but it's interesting.
>gold was kept in vaults (run by jews ofc)
>the customers found it inconvenient to carry around large sums of gold for purchases (had lesss value then), and more importantly the merchants found it inconvenient to move around Gold
>made gold certificates to give their clients for easier movement of funds
>merchants realized (or planned it the whole time) that if the clients are only withdrawing the god certificates, they coud loan out the clients' gold SECRETLY AND KEEP THE INTEREST fOR THEMSELVES
>i.e. fractional lending, 10% mandated fed "reserve
>eventually the assets backing the certificates are not just lended out, but removed altogether, before or after doing so officially (under Nixon).

Dollars were orginally gold certificates, coins were real silver, pennies were made of copper until 1982.

Is there anything left in fort knox? IMO the fed MUST be audited.

the minute was a typo, there are 535,600 seconds in a year

fug, minutes

>Also worth noting, since you think Trump is the first 1.2T/year president
>>Obama added 1.2T to the debt in 2016, 2011 and 2012, 1.9T in 2009 and 1.7T in 2010
>>GWB had the first Trillion Dollar year in 2008
I said in economic expansion, were at the end of the cycle now, the government should be in surplus if you believe the role of the government is to smooth out the business cycle

No I haven't even got round to buying the equipment, I will do it tomorrow though now you have reminded me

Wrong again nigger, there are 31,536,000 seconds in a year
>365 days x 24 hours x 60m x 60s

More importantly, this will be the fifth time we've borrowed 1.2T and the sixth time over 1 Trillion.

SO your claim that Trump is borrowing more money this year than any other president any other year, is bullshit.

Soetoro borrowed 50% more than 1.2T, twice.

What happens when humans start to mine from close by flying asteroids? We are looking to sending mining robots for diamonds and metals within 10 years :D

>16 years of out of control borrowing
>govt should be in surplus now

>nigger
there are 525,600 minutes in a year, the US will be borrowing 1.2 trillion per minute NOT SECOND. I got confused the first time I wrote it.

>SO your claim that Trump is borrowing more money this year than any other president any other year, is bullshit.
apart from I never claimed that, I said hes borrowing the most in any economic expansiony period, and also when Obumdo was deficit spending the fed was monetising it, they are not only no longer doing that but they are also shrinking their balance sheet

>1.2 trillion per minute

>I never claimed that

>Trump is increasing the debt more than any other president in peacetime or economic expansion

it never happens, but that is keynes fundemental theory - its still shit though - that the government should deficit spend in recisions and build a surplus in expansions, the problem with democracy is though that you can never stop the spending once you have started it

Diamonds aren't scarce. DeBeers is just tricking you into thinking they are super-rare and valuable to jew you out of money.

Mining asteroids will never be profitable. The cost of launching the equipment and getting the materials back to earth would be exorbitant.

NOOOOOOO

> than any other president any other year
> than any other president in peacetime or economic expansion

You're moving the goalposts further and further literally with every post

>implying we're in peacetime
You should just KYS.

Well, not mining exactly. But dragging the asteroid to earth :)

bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-07-26/asteroid-mining-has-a-new-champion

Im going to try for the final time to say this correctly, if I make a mistake again I'm throwing my keyboard out the window.

This years deficit is estimate to be $1 trillion, more realistically $1.2 trillion. With 525,600 minutes MINUTES in a year this means the US federal government is borrowing $2.2 million per minute

pls be right

>the fed was monetising it
>fed is going to pay off Bush/Obongo's debt

Unnecessary, offensive wars count as peacetime, 99.99% couldn't name where US troops are stationed or the countrys you are currently bombing. By peacetime I mean no REAL wars, not some afgan, iraq meme I mean ww2.

I would say it is a slow but worthwhile investment.
I believe in crypto , but i also believe in an economic terror event where e-money will not be worth anything.
Maybe when the pajeets take over you can trade gold for a cow or some fish

Ill bet asteroid mining will be like this

youtube.com/watch?v=k9YYbrZ4whY

I don't understand the question or implication here

You all dumbasses know that public debt is a political meme?
For fucks sake, business & finance board, have any of you paid attention in economics class?

I... fuck it I can't be arsed, thats nice user

Whatever the per-minute number adds up to doesnt matter, you're sensationalizing it.

Obama borrowed 1.2 Trillion or more in 5/8 years, including 2016. Trump is rebuilding manufacturing, defense and infrastructure (hopefully), these are expensive things to do.

You're implying he can just sit back, run a ibertarian udget and they'll rebuild themselves.

>the other wars werent offensive
>being this much of a brainlet

Agreed, I didn't bring up "the public debt" as the great indicator of actual debt.

>You're implying he can just sit back, run a ibertarian udget and they'll rebuild themselves.
If you removed all the taxes and regulation they would.

>Trump is rebuilding manufacturing
yes tariffs and protectionism is really going to build up manufacturing

>the other wars werent offensive
Not purely offensive no, america was attack or her allies were.

>being this much of a brainlet
rephrase your implication then maybe I can help you

>Whatever the per-minute number adds up to doesnt matter, you're sensationalizing it.
its not sensationalizing, its putting it in understandable terms, no one can picture what 1.2 trillion looks like

macrovoices.com/podcasts/MacroVoices-2018-03-01-Jeffery-Snider.mp3
great podcast on gold for anyone who wants to know more about how the market works.

basically it goes like this
>gold held by central bank
>central bank can issue paper gold based on these holdings, without having to actually take the gold off their balance sheets
>you can therefore have multiple owners of a single gram of gold, technically
>the central banks still get to keep the gold on their books and in their vaults even though they are "owned" "leased" by other parties
>they essentially have a blank cheque for when shit really hits the fan
>could get fucked if central banks start calling in central banks gold debts
>ie gold is the final linch pin of central banks
>will never happen though

and strangely enough, when large banks/central banks need cash/liquidity, they dip into their gold stock pile and issue more gold debt notes into the market. this has the effect of depressing the price of gold. so in a liquidity crisis, gold could temporarily fall as well as other assets.

Not when you're implying this is the first time it happened.
>Obama borrowed 1.2 Trillion or more in 5 of his 8 years, including 2016.

Holy shit you're a brainlet.

supposedly theres still a shit ton of gold left in the Rocky Mountains, I think the US is saving it for future use

Still involves trusting a vaulter for it. If it's for some commodity which is verifiable in its use / irretrievable transformation it's good - you can burn it.