WTF

autism

lel >the next level
you just want to feel great

I would definitely be prepared to die in order to colonize Mars. Without similar sacrifices, humanity may not exist as we know it, so why be selfish about my worthless life?

>"Hey fly with us for half a million dollars! You may or may not get to Mars alive, we don't care!"
10/10 business acumen

The whole thing is Jonestown-tier

I dont give a shit about musk, but i'd kill for a chance to die on mars

Do you think early astronauts expected to survive? Are you really that naive? It might not be you, it wouldn't be me, but there have always been people willing to face death to do something that no one else alive has ever done before.

Hell just look at all the people who have and still do die climbing Everest. And its not even close to a unique achievement anymore

Yes, they expected to survive, because they spoke to the engineers of their vehicles who had well-researched estimates about their chances of dying. The chances of dying were always pretty low.

Yes they did. NASA was committed to bringing back all astronauts alive. These people had fucking families. While they accepted that they may not come back they knew the mission would likely be a success due to NASA diligence. Musk here is saying that the first participants are probably going to die because he's not even going to try and ensure safety. There's a big difference between "may die" and "probably going to die"
Literally drinking the Kool-Aid

is he supposed to pussyfoot around something that serious?

it's straightforward because death is straightforward - it is what it is

You don't fly the mission unless you can ensure passenger safety. Ethics 101.

Fuck that. Humans are expendable as shit

...

How the fuck are we going to make steel on Mars without coal? Are there other building materials we could produce?

How the fuck are we going to make steel on earth once the tree huggers make coal illegal?

Rockets are dangerous
Deep space missions more so

Thats not what musk said

What would you NEED steel for on mars?

I guess you aren't aware of the prepared Apollo 11 failure speech.

Well-researched estimates given information they had - we learned a shitload of things in practice. For example, we learned over-oxygenation will burn the crew to death. There is a difference between carelessness and honesty - people will die, that does not mean we wont make the best effort possible to ensure safety towards potential problems.

Mostly see previous paragraph, but I admit "probably" was a terrible word to use. It still doesn't represent carelessness, in my opinion. It's more blunt than people are used to hearing. And I'm not a big Musk fanboy, I think his pseudoscience comments are embarrassing.

It's one of main materials we use for buildings currently. How are you going to build structures on Mars without steel?

Use aluminium. Gravity is 1/3 so you dont need as much structural strength

You'd have to find an aluminum deposit. The dirt on mars is like 5%-15% iron oxide already.

Ten to fifteen years ago, you would've called him "sociopathic". Within another ten, you'll have moved on to another term, having caused everyone to stop taking the current one seriously.

You'll never convince everyone to pad their language to make you feel more comfortable.

I wish Musk-senpai was able to be president of the USA.

just a little amoral.

>Apollo 11 failure speech.
They didn't mention it before the launch it was a just in case thing.
where's the bauxite on mars?
He's a nutjob and you are all dumb sheep. If he ever gets his MCT off of the ground (which he won't) he will get a couple people killed, the public will be outrage and he will be shut down by the government

>They didn't mention it before the launch it was a just in case thing.
Which is irrelevant to the claim I was responding to, that you don't do anything you can't "ensure" is safe.

>the public will be outrage and he will be shut down by the government
What is your world like? It sounds nice.

We should gather hundreds of engineers to lick his --

OH THAT'S WHY HE MADE A SPACE COMPANY

Wish i had a space company

This isn't even close to being an accurate portrayal of the early Astronaut Corps or NASA. The Astronauts of the early space program were drawn exclusively from the military and they were very aware that there was a reasonable chance they would die. It was an acceptable risk to all of them.

The only reason NASA would never say something similar is because at the end of the day NASA is staffed by civil service bureaucrats who must answer to the morons in congress and their equally moronic constituents.

The American public loves to exist in some parallel universe without risk. These are people who are surprised that when you decide to invade two countries you may occasionally get one of your soldiers blown up. You cannot be truthful with these retards so you have to spew bullshit about how everyone will come home safe.

How's that working out for the airline, automotive, shipping or rail industries? You will never "ensure" passenger safety. You attempt to make things as safe as possible given the variables you're dealt and make sure that everyone involved knows the risks.

Nice meme, but they really are. You aren't the special snowflake you think you are contrary to what your mother may have told you.

>he will get a couple people killed, the public will be outrage and he will be shut down by the government
Oh never mind, you are actually retarded.

It's funny, but it's also true. It's not like everything is gonna be smooth.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika

I'm glad to see someone with influence actually speak about the risks of space exploration with some semblance of honesty.

The American public needs to accept that some things will be risky, in both lives and capital, and break out from the pathology of needing everything sugar coated.

I've been in two separate IED attacks and one relatively minor helo crash. Honestly, I would much prefer dying on Mars, even if only to placate the ego of a billionaire, than bleed out in the fucking desert in service of Israel or Halliburton.

Contrary to what most anons on here think, SpaceX isn't filled with mindless Musk worshipers.

We just like working on rockets and in general Musk stays out of our way and is a good steward of the company.

Don't we all.

Laika died a hero to all humanity.

>Hey guys just so you know if we send a ship off into completely foreign and unknown waters they may face potential danger and extreme death.

How do you think our explorers felt when they actually got to explore.
It's a noble pursuit.

Humanity has accomplished everything through the risk of death. How do we find out if a berry is poisonous? We make our most useless members eat them and see what happens.

This.
And then no longer are they useless.

We will never forget you, Utk, for paving the way in the discovery of edible, or in your case, poisonous leaves.

To put things into perspective, the entire team that first made it to the south pole died on the way back from their journey. Space is a hell of a lot more dangerous than that.

But thats wrong.

Knowledge of non-staple plants was primarily handled by healers who would have been one of the most valued members of society, and methods for safely testing the toxicity of a plant have been passed down for aeons.

You don't simply eat a few berries and see what happens, and you certainly wouldn't make "the most useless" member of your society do it.

For that matter, how would you even define "most useless"? In a small group, EVERY member would have been invaluable as every person was another pair of hands and eyes. You were basically valuable until you were dead.

>Musk here is saying that the first participants are probably going to die because he's not even going to try and ensure safety.

"Having examined past space programs, I ascertain a high chance of death even if everybody is diligent."

>HE SAID TRUE THINGS BASED ON EVIDENCE BURN THE AUTIST

>They didn't mention it before the launch it was a just in case thing.

"He is too honest to hide the danger, he shouldn't be allowed to run a space program"

Top tier bantz my man :^)

>You don't fly the mission unless you can ensure passenger safety. Ethics 101.

... I guess that's why no NASA mission has ever flown? Why no airplanes are above us? Or did you mean any value less than 100% safety when you said "ensure" ?

>what is Factorio

>safe space

Mars has something like .4 of earth's gravity. It's insane to think that they WOULD survive.

Venus, on the other hand, has .9 Earth's gravity. *Libra takes a bow* PEACE

*weighs the good and evil from afar**

*not really, but we'll pretend

>OP calls musk an autist
>turns out to be one himself

The people paying half a million dollars for a ticket won't be the same people who are likely to die.

The early colonists will be professional astronauts getting a free ride. Maybe NASA astronauts, maybe SpaceX employees, almost certainly not paying customers themselves. They'll be going without the benefit of anyone's experience, trying new technology for the first time under real-world conditions and depending on it for their survival.

Half a million dollars is an estimate of the cost of the mature, proven system shipping people to an established colony.

>Knowledge of non-staple plants was primarily handled by healers who would have been one of the most valued members of society, and methods for safely testing the toxicity of a plant have been passed down for aeons.
>You don't simply eat a few berries and see what happens
Why not just say "knowledge of non-staple plants is distributed on wikipedia"?

Humans didn't appear on the Earth with aeons of accumulated knowledge, you mong.

CRASHING THIS SPACEX

WITH NO SURVIVORS

>Veeky Forums is obsessed with immortality
>suddenly some space cult leader has come along and now everyone is begging to throw their lives away for him.

I thought you people were smart

>just in case thing
EXACTLY what this thing with Musk is.

He knows that, despite ALL the preparation for safety involved, there will be failures occuring due to human error. Just like ALL NASA missions where men and women lost their lives.

They prepared for safety, but people still died. Musk is simply telling people to understand that, despite all precaution, that deaths will probably still happen. Because history of this sort of endeavor (read: apollo missions) say so.

He's pre-absolving himself of responsibility. This is a very cavalier attitude for a company to take. If someone dies even though it was a possibility it's still his company's fault and he shouldn't be allowed to dodge blame by saying "hurr space is hard". When Challenger blew up NASA was rightly pilloried

Donno how they did it in Murica back then, but in USSR everybody fucking new that they will probably die in space. Government never said it, but austronauts themselves were not fools. And some of them died, at least one died horribly.

Musk just saing the truth, its impossible to calculate everything when you pushing the frontiers.

As will SpaceX. When their first human dies during a flight (If they get that far) they will be under a remarkable amount of scrutiny.

It's less about absolving himself of responsibility - If the company sends people somewhere, and they die on the journey, it's obviously their fault. Nobody (not he nor I) are denying that.

It's more about educating people on the realities of these missions. No matter how hard you try, shit happens. And when shit happens when humans are inside the capsule, humans die.

>When Challenger blew up NASA was rightly pilloried
...because of the nature of the space shuttle, NASA's rhetoric about it, and that flight in particular.

The space shuttle wasn't some ambitious new exploration project. It was simply supposed to be a cheaper way to put stuff in orbit. It was manned on every flight whether the crew was relevant to the mission or not, and they had left out conventional safety systems on the claim that it was "like an airliner" -- so safe that bail-out capabilities were unnecessary.

The Challenger mission that blew up had a civilian teacher onboard as a PR exercise, to show how routine and safe they considered flying on the shuttle. Meanwhile, NASA managers were lying about the risk level and ignoring engineers telling them about failure modes.

On top of all that, the shuttle had utterly failed at saving money compared to the expendable rockets it was supposed to replace. Crediting man-hours in space to it is absurd because the insistence on killing all competition to the shuttle meant NASA didn't maintain a capsule alternative, which caused a period from February 1974 to 1982 when NASA (starting from the ability to land a man on the moon) had no manned spaceflight capability at all, during which Skylab, a working space station, splashed due to delays in the shuttle program, which was supposed to be ready in time to man and maintain it.

But the shuttle program went on after Challenger. There was just too much money involved. The contractors receiving money for it and the civil servants whose careers would suffer if it were acknowledged to be a failure were a powerful lobby. They managed to spin it so the public outrage was steered toward NASA's corner-cutting on the shuttle program, attempting to provide its claimed benefits, rather than the ridiculously wasteful program itself.

>People died in the very first apollo mission ever

And they weren't even in space yet.

So you are saying that he didn't word it correctly in the snippet they quoted of an interview you didnt listen to?

>I think you are projecting autism.

" Musk here is saying that the first participants are probably going to die because he's not even going to try and ensure safety."

You have reading comprehension problems.

This is a sure sign of full blown retardation, please offer my condolences to your parents.

are you guys hiring biologists yet for terraforming / geoengineering...or just growing food on Mars?

he's slowly turning into this guy.

"In 2010, the National Institute of Justice in the United States published recommended rights of human subjects:

Voluntary, informed consent

Respect for persons: treated as autonomous agents

The right to end participation in research at any time

Right to safeguard integrity

Benefits should outweigh cost

Protection from physical, mental and emotional harm

Access to information regarding research

Protection of privacy and well-being"

human rights laws in his country forbid him to do this.

can someone explain why we are going to mars?

is there something there that we need?

You need to develop your writing.
your ability to convey a clear thought is questionable at best

if you want public support for a massive endeavour like this you cant just sperg out and talk about people dying and shit. you think NASA said shit like this about the space program?

...

Materials, but I assume the reason that we are pushing to go to mars is both to progress scientific advancement but also to start the long process of setting up a permenant colony on a seperate planet.

I believe the second thing is extremely important in the eventuality that something will threaten human existence on Earth. No matter how you look at it, at some point Earth will not be able to support human life. This doesnt have to mean the end of our species.

that is just your opinion. I think you are sperging out.

wtf I hate spacex now

Elon wishes he could be as cool as Werner. Most entertaining scientist character I've ever seen.

thank you for being concerned with my writing, English is my second language. I do need practice, but I thought the quote was clear enough.

the point is after world war II people realized there are no regulations regarding human experimentation. ethics became important in research which uses humans as test subjects. the subject's interests are more important then scientific advancement due to these declarations and ethics.

Voluntary, informed consent covers a lot what you might find objectionable about sending people on dangerous exploratory missions.

then why aren't doctors allowed to euthanize patients who request it?

Because this would upset people with certain religious sensibilities who tend to be very vocal. The cynic in me also assumes that the AMA and medical insurance lobby wouldn't like it simply because it would reduce medical payments.

A not insignificant amount of people in the US, and various EU countries, believe that doctors should be allowed to do exactly that.

I should also point out that the list of recommended rights you posted here is not actually part of any comprehensive "human rights laws" in the US. That list applies only to entities seeking funding from the NIJ for the purpose of research.

don't get me wrong, I'm one of those people who thinks certain situations are different and those things should be allowed.
but people are gonna be very vocal about it because people who want assisted suicide are usually made out to be unfit psychologically to make that assessment or not healthy enough to survive the trip to mars.

thanks. I'm sure a similar list exists for those who do not seek funding for research though.

The only bio/life sciences people I know here currently work on life support systems. I think we are far away from having in house bio/geoengineering positions.

I agree that Musk may be underestimating the politics of just how reactionary the American public can be.

Np. This isn't my area of expertise but I wouldn't be so sure in the assumption that this will necessarily present much of a problem for space exploration. Obviously laws exist with regards to informed consent as well as general employee protection but there are plenty of jobs right here in the US that are legal to engage in and have a fairly high risk of injury or death.

> be NASA
> re-enter earth's atmosphere on manned mission
> shit blows up
> kills everyone
wew, space travel is not safe, user...

This guy is confirmed aspergers

I don't think he's underestimating. I think he's softening the ground and getting people to talk about the subject more, which might make a change in the long run for those problems we discussed.
In canada they're trying to pass laws regarding euthanasia and assisted suicides. I think it's something that can be changed if the public is exposed to the idea enough.
you work in spacex, what is your field of expertise, since it's not law? I gave up astrophysics to pursue electrical engineering.

More like:

>be NASA Shuttle managers
>realize that Shuttle heat shield may be critically compromised from debris strike during launch
>turn down DOD/USAF offer to maneuver NRO imaging satellite into position to get a better assessment of damaged tiles
>decide to not say shit to astronauts since there's nothing you could do anyway
>astronauts carry on mission like normal
>Shuttle reenters atmosphere and breaks apart spewing astronaut parts all over Texas
>lucky farmers get to find human limbs while tilling fields
>oh shit what happened
>play dumb, maybe cry a little for the cameras during congressionaly inquiry
>get reassigned to another cushy NASA civil service job even after it's documented that you withheld info from astronauts
>continue making $150k+ paid for by US taxpayers
>retire with awesome federal pension

Hey guys, how do I into glorious NASA administrator job?

They'd die even if they didn't go to mars. But at least they'd be the first recorded human deaths on mars.

I'm sure that's what he's trying to do put I don't know how successful he will be. I have much more faith in the Canadian public acting rationally concerning this than I do the American public. We have a pretty awful media that lives for quick soundbites and anything salacious. An evil billionaire sending poor unaware astronauts to their death would make for a profitable news cycle for a few days.

I work in our propulsion group but I can't get too specific since SpaceX doesn't like us posting publicly about internal aspects of the company.

>Aluminium

? He spelt it the British way

It's a dig at Clapistanis who reject the original way

Let the summerkid fire his meme

I'm so confused, you need to go back to meme school.

>autistic
Nah he's definitely autistic, have you ever seen him give a speech? It's hard to listen to him.

Yeah he sounds weird. Why does every STEM genius have to be an autist?