You lied to me Veeky Forums

>engineering is a meme
Most of modern infrastructure and technology is invented, designed and built by engineers.

>do something that only interests yourself and you already know will never benefit anyone
>call your work 'underpaid'

You have no idea how lucky scientists are.

thanks for the (you)s fellas, tell me how the job search goes

yeah but sometimes the stuff is beneficial, there's just no reliable way of knowing what will be useful in advance

FUND BASIC RESEARCH

>you already know will never benefit anyone
Just because you are too stupid to know how their work would improve things doesnt mean they are wrong.

You are like those retards back in Europe who mocked the men who discovered most of mathematics.

>implying complex numbers will ever have a practical use

>t. academic wellfare leech
t. industry master race who pays your salary

>what is electronics, signals and telecomm
>what is physics

>You lied to me Veeky Forums.
yes
>You told me science was something honorable and something that non-plebs pursue.
honorable -no
non-plebs -yes
>You promised me science would lead to lucrative careers.
WRONG. Although it can.
>You told me science allowed freedom that other jobs don't.
who promised you this
highly arguable really

>Science is underpaid
yes
>Science is spending countless hours searching for knowledge that will never be directly applied.
no. Maybe
>Science as it's portrayed is lie.
science is not portrayed
>PhDs are overrated.
whatever bra its just another job it pays the rent, if you feel more fulfilled in marketing, management or number crunching for some financial company go ahead

I'm currently doing a chemistry research and just attended a chemistry conference where I got to see a lot of chemist from different fields talk about the research they've done.

I suppose the advice I should give depends on your questions. What do you wanna know about?

STEM really is a meme except for compsci and so.e fields if engineering. Thinking about ditching chem to major in anthropology and going to law school instead.

Not sure if you're able to answer, but I want to apply my knowledge of chemistry to pharmaceuticals. I don't really want to work on a practical level with pharmaceuticals. My dreams would be to work at a management level.

I was thinking of taking my bachelor then look to see if there's anything on the market. If not, I would continue my education for a masters to improve my situation. After my education, try and get some working experience and then continue with an MBA, as I have that possibility.

This is just me daydreaming, but I'd love some insight, if you have any.

>My dreams would be to work at a management level.
there is literally nothing stopping you from finishing your bachelors, getting a masters in management or some experience in management and then being a manager all your life

Different guy here; I'm a senior chemistry major who's basically tried to follow the same path as you. This past year I applied for a bunch of internships doing business / finance / project management with big pharma companies (Pfizer, Merck, Novartis etc), and in hindsight spending 300 hours in lab classes didn't mean shit.

If you're interested in business, study finance or economics. At the end of the day they aren't hiring businessmen who can synthesize the drugs they're selling, they're looking to hire businessmen who are damn good at doing business. That's not to say that you can't go into business as a chemistry major, if you're smart enough plenty of people will want to hire you. But you certainly won't get hired just because of your major.

There is literally hardly anything that will get you to that position for a Bachelor's Degree. Most job postings I've seen and folks I've talked to say that you absolutely need a PhD even for management level positions. Masters degrees don't exist in chemistry, they are a consolation prize for not having finished a PhD and are frowned upon by industry. I highly suggest going the PhD route if this is what you're planning to do, there's no other way around it.

Do you regret choosing chemistry as your major?

Also, I'm not a 100% certain how your system works, as I'm not from USA. Majors would be the equivalent of saying a bachelor in said major subject, right?

This is news to me.

I've always disliked PhD's, as I believe they're only for "real" scientists. So I wouldn't feel comfortable going after a PhD.

I have different "idols", you could say. Big pharmaceutical CEO's. They all tend to have some sort of relevant bachelor to the industry with an MBA on top. As they're all 50+ of age, though, the times may have changed.

You nailed it buddy. Don't even take my word for it. Go on indeed.com and look for jobs in chemistry as management or scientists etc, and look how many of those jobs require a PhD in order to even be considered. It's actually the reason I made this thread. I wanted to be a professor, but no one told me that even after the PhD there was still some years of post-doc, then associate professor, then finally full time professor. It's just as long as med school, with less pay and much more time wasted chasing unicorns.

Okay, thanks. I will check that site.

Becoming a professor is vastly different than becoming a CEO, though. But I get your point.

I regretted it a lot when I was in the midst of the hardest part of the curriculum. Now that I'm pretty much done with the degree I have mixed feelings, largely in part because I still have no idea what I want to do after I graduate.

In the US your major is the subject you're primarily studying, but almost everyone will still technically graduate with the same degree (a bachelor of arts). That being said, if you have a B.A. in art history, you probably won't get hired for a job in high tech.

Its not about the money or the jobs or the freedom

Its about the knowledge.

Knowledge is a meme. It's about the money, the status, and the women, you dip.

IT'S ABOUT THE KNAWLEDGE and the sports car, but above all, it's above the self-importance and sense of superiority.

Wew lad. Are you some kind of leftist that feels shame of your, I assume, superiority?

Wew lad, are you incapable of recognizing memes?

Wew lad. You took my bait.

Wew lad
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>You told me science was something honorable and something that non-plebs pursue.
We never said plebs don't try too.
>You promised me science would lead to lucrative careers
Only if you're GOOD at it.
>You told me science allowed freedom that other jobs don't.
"

Fucking plebs.

Woah buddy, attacking 'tacking "is a meme" onto the ends of things' is a meme.

Academia isn't welfare nigger, we help industry too, one of my designs is getting commissioned by our benefactors.

It's more like a consulting firm, but with pure research too and snot nosed undegrads loitering in your office.

>he did not went for archeology
studentsreview.com/unemployment_by_major.php3

Sorry, but I have to ask.
How did you manage to go through your entire Ph.D not knowing that Prof was top of the food chain and in order to get there you have to go through some years of post-doc/fellowship and if you do well and are lucky, get a lectureship > Senior lecturer/Reader (depending on publications) > Associate Professor/Prof (again dependant).

Knowing the career progression is pretty much invaluable if you are going into academia. Did you not wonder why the majority of Profs were 40+? You don't just get given it with your Ph.D, you need a lifetime of well recieved and impactful publications to even get a look in a Prof. We are talking more than a decade from starting a Ph.D, so significantly longer than medschool. Also going from post-doc to associate prof just does not happen given the differences in the positions, lecturer always comes first due to the managerial nature of the postion.

Wtf dude, no wonder you are disillusioned.

This is virtually the only post that had some backbone in it in this whole stupid thread.

>It's just as long as med school, with less pay and much more time wasted chasing unicorns.
Let me stop you here, because this memeing is starting to annoy me. Less pay than a med student? Associate professor is a professor; they make on average $80-90k a year at state schools. The only difference is that they can be let go after a few years and don't yet make as much as tenured professors. Postdocs make around $40k. Are you telling me that you consider $80k and $40k, respectively, to be a pittance? This is more than a perfectly livable pay.

Oh, and I think we both meant to say assistant professor. Associate professors already have tenure and make a little more money.

>Science is literally a meme.

Everything that is common enough is "literally a meme".

>Science is underpaid

It's paid perfectly fine. If you wanted to drive sports cars and fuck bitches, you selected the wrong career senpai.

>Science is spending countless hours searching for knowledge that will never be directly applied.
>that will never be directly applied.

That is not yours to worry about.

>thag, stop rubbing stick together
>need food thag
>thag waste time playing with stick
>no application

>look how many of those jobs require a PhD in order to even be considered
This desu, along with a handful years of experience all over the industry as "minimum requirements".

Fortunately I have not gone through the entire PhD. I am a sophomore who almost fell into the career path as a result of the "PhD is best, most honor, professor is best scholar" meme. The problem was that all they talk about is how great a PhD is and how it helps, but no one ever actually sits us down and tells us or allows us to know what Grad school is actually, or what it entails afterwards. I partly blame this on myself for taking things at face value.

However, there are jobs just as prestigious and much better paid out there that can still allow science without spending nearly half of your life to get there. I actually wanna live at some point as well.

>The problem was that all they talk about is how great a PhD
would do this too if i ran a university t b h

>However, there are jobs just as prestigious and much better paid out there that can still allow science without spending nearly half of your life to get there.

And what are these jobs, exactly?

Your shit is as bad as those pedophile cartoons. Fucking degenerate.

...

hes not kidding. im a current chemistry PhD, ive posted on here about this a few times before.

he hit the nail on the head with the job requirements. to be a scientist in industry not doing day in day out meaningless grunt work you basically need a PhD. like he said, just look on indeed. if you are going to do a PhD, you need to go into school with the mindset that you are going to recieve practical skills from your time in grad school. that is learning instrumentation, networking, basically learning as much hands on skills as possible.

There are a lot of people who dont make it into industry or academia, but there are people who do. those that do usually do very well for themselves. they are hired into these positions because they have immediately transferable skills for the job, not because you spent years working on some bizarre research no one gives a shit about. that's sentencing yourself to career death in chemistry.

Fair enough, I feel better about you now that I know you didn't spend 3+ years with no idea about what comes next.

Speaking as someone who has spent some years in industry but currently doing a Ph.D, I can tell you that the science feels more wholesome in academia. Industry reserch is acceptable at its best and 'pay for results' at its worst. All of the worst breaches of the scientific method and ethics happened in industry. Although, yes, you are right that is pays more. So really it depends what you want.

I disagree that equally as prestigious jobs exist in industry, however. In science, Prof > everything else in terms of prestige. People just do not look at senior managers and industrial directors in the same way they do Profs, probably due to the differences in what exactly that means they are. A director runs a company and does no science, a Prof runs a team and does actual research. The only times I have ever seen people in positions of scientific authority given large amounts of respect is when they have significant amounts of research and impactful publications under their belt, and that happens through academic research.

tl;dr don't expect to do actual research in a highly paid managerial position in industry. You will be managing the people doing the research, not actuall doing it.

>All of the worst breaches of the scientific method and ethics happened in industry.

Poster here, I meant 'that I have seen' rather then in general.

Stop expecting a neat framework to succeed in

The world is messy - get your PhD then out in the world and just do the best you can. Even better - get a good idea of what you want to do with your life then choose your PhD subject depending on that.

this is a lie right?

what do you think?

Since you're asking this question, I will assume you are new here.

This is a longstanding meme here in Veeky Forums to make fun of math majors who think their field is the best of them all. Most of them would say shit like

>I'm a math major
>I can get any job I want
>300K starting

Which is obviously not true, thus the meme. Lurk moar.

>muh purity

you'll have a part in a dozen research papers in your lifetime that a total of less than 100 people will read, combined.

only retards tack meme onto things. this is why you're not going to do anything with your life.

gg try again next time. oh wait, there isn't a next time. looks like you fucked up. might as well kill yourself.

Science is fun. This should be the only reason you're doing it, else you're doing it wrong.

Also, you should be able to get into engineering with a scientific degree (as long as it's not some meme shit like social science). Maybe that's more fun for you.

Honestly, who gives a shit about "honorable" and "lucrative" anyway. All I care about is whether or not I spent my limited time on this earth doing things I care about. And I don't give a fuck about money, it's always kinda there (enough not to starve anyway).

please tell me this is bait

>Science is fun

End this meme. A real scientific can spend months studying irrelevant data.

>knowledge that will never be directly applied
How do you know what will never
be directly applied, Nostradamus?

Because I literally just came from a conference where I saw a hundreds of scientists present data on different obscure molecules. Some of their research involved studying the electron orbitals of said molecules, for 20+ years. Please tell me how this is going to revolutionize daily life for me?

i'm not even from /sci hell i'm not even from the internet i dont' know what i'm doing, so dont ostracize me (i'm not english either and i won't bother checking if im using that word correctly) if this is a meme or anything, but you should read the book "the science of nearly everything". it tells the story of the beauty and the horror that is the human society/human mind

>Please tell me how this is going to revolutionize daily life for me?
Please tell me how 99% of what anyone does at any time will revolutionize daily life?

Exactly, it doesn't. I never claimed I didn't have philosophical objections to modern life, this thread is specifically about chasing imaginary results in research and then portraying it to the younger generation as "Science is cool! Do a PhD! Spend your life in school instead of earning some decent money to go out there and travel and experience the world". There's more to life than science, science has been misrepresented. Researching obscure chemicals for the sake of knowledge is not practical.

Science is about making up shit to get grants.
Engineering is about actually using science to do things.

Guess which one is actual work?