What's with German logicians during the late 19th and early 20th century...

What does this have to fucking do with anything? Goddamit, after reading your set theory shit fest and now this, I have to believe you are unironically oblivious of how daft you are.

OP here. I am completely lost. You just went from 0 to 100 really fast.

It has mostly to do with Frege and the analytical tradition that followed from his work.

The fact that he was german and that his work influenced all those mathematicians alive during the revolution in the foundations of mathematics at the turn of the century.

Also, take into consideration Hilbert's amazing coordinating influence during almost all branches of mathematics during that era. Russell and Whitehead's efforts, culminating with Gödel's work. Not to mention, nazism and the expatriation of mathematicians and scientists to America.

I think that it was mostly fortune, set in motion by the appropriate foundations and nurtured by an adequate social context.

I'm a quiet person drunk with indifference in real life, so I overcompensate under the excuse of anonimity. Also, I hate that namefag, the way he exposes his thoughts gives a certain vibe that I've come to be wary about. Sorry to shit up your thread, OP.

I'm pretty sure the French are the ones who've contributed the most in pretty much all fields of math.

Early 19th century brought with it the birth and development of modern formalization of mathematics. A large circle of people working on that were German.

This doesn't mean that other mathematicians weren't doing much nor that Germans were doing much more. It just means that a community of mathematicians there happened to work on a shiny theory that developed quickly.

But the question is specifically about german mathematicians during the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century, working, specifically, in mathematical logic and the foundations of math. Your observation is inconsequential to the discussion, do you not know how to read?

What do you want me to say you stupid fucking retard who can't figure out something so fucking obvious?

Germany became a state in 1870, and has been, since then, the most populated country in Western Europe with the most industrialized economy on mainland Europe. They lost their intellectual edge after the first and second world wars.

So of course there are a couple of notable German mathematicians of the time when Germany was at its best, you retarded idiot bitch shit.

>Frege, Cantor, Hilbert, Gödel, (...).
>a couple of notable German mathematicians

Some of the most important logicians in the history of humanity worked within the span of a few decades, completely revolutionizing the way mathematics is thought about and they all happened to be german. (I know Gödel is austrian, but still).

>'OP: Hey, maybe there is a historical reason why it went that way, let's ask.'
>'(You): French mathematicians are the ones who've contributed the most in all the other fields of mathematics not relevant to your question.'

Do you see my point here? Is not that what you've said is wrong, is just that it's irrelevant.

Uh oh, user is being mean!!

Calm your tits, friend. The French school was mentioned, and I think it is interesting that Germany has contributed the most to algebra and logic, while France has contributed the most to geometry and topology. I was hoping to start a discussion on whether this has anything to do with the cultural differences between those places.

Why are you so blistery, anyway?

>Many of the major names in mathematical logic, set theory, and the foundation of mathematics are German.
>They seem to have contributed an proportional amount of ideas to the field of mathematics compared to other nations, or even compared to themselves, before or since.

You first mentioned a few fields, but then went on and generalized your question to all of mathematics. You're explicitly saying that 19th-20th century Germans are the single biggest shit in all of mathematics, which they aren't, not even in the specific fields you mentioned.

My point is not just that your initial question arose from an incorrect proposition, but that you're a fucking idiot.

I was not the OP, I guess this was all a misunderstanding, so I say we are both blunt fucks in our own quarters, at least I know I am.

>You're explicitly saying that 19th-20th century Germans are the single biggest shit in all of mathematics, which they aren't, not even in the specific fields you mentioned

I obviously don't hold that view, not even close. But you're also delusional if you don't think those germans were not the biggest shits within mathematical logic/foundational math during that period. May the ghost of Grothendieck grant you hefty walnuts and serene mathematical oceans, friend.

Fair enough, I apologize for my assholeness. But you're right, now that you mention it, it's something I have wondered about too, that divisiveness that characterizes France in mathematics. If I had to say something, I would bet a lot of it has to do with their system, the ENS and Poly and all that. But I'm out of my depth here.

But I had the impression that french mathematicians were far more influential in algebra.

Yeah, the French have made monstrous contributions to really all fields (although it feels like not much combinatorics?). By no means are their only contributions to geometry (hell, half the names I gave also made large contributions to algebra and analysis, especially Poincaré). I am almost certainly biased because I spend most of my time thinking about and reading about topology. I like to think that French is less rigid, and perhaps that has also permeated their mathematics. Maybe somebody with more knowledge on these things can pipe in? This has always fascinated me.

I also agree with you on the French being very promoting of mathematics in general, looking at their university system.

German here. Whatever it was, it's over.
Our math education system has become even worse than most of the US's. Our universities are state funded and not allowed to accept tuition fees which destroys all competitiveness and makes every university equally poor. It's literally socialism.

Just look at how many Germans won the field medal. Literally one. And he lived in a completely different era.

partially sarcastic
logic stopped developing for the longest time after the 14th century. for whatever fucking reason. leibniz had the idea that you could treat logic like some sort of algebra and still nobody cared. who picked up the the subject long after philosophers abandoned it? fucking mathematicians

Germany has a pretty rich history of scientific discovery around the turn of the century. It wasn't just logic/mathematics. Chemistry was also a huge thing over there I know for sure. I'm sure other fields were too, such as psychology and the like. Haber, Freud, Einstein himself was German. Oddly, all those names are Jewish Germans. Maybe the Third Reich ruined all that for them. Once the Jews left Germany their intellectual prowess ceased when they went mostly to America. Perhaps that's one reason why the USA has done so well since then?

>what's up with that

>Charging people for education on a for profit basis makes good education
>Not how well structured the curricula is and how many highly encouraged and talented students there are

>I was talking about the topics of mathematical logic, set theory, and the foundation of mathematics specifically. And although there are Polish, French, and British names in there as well, those specific topics seem to be unproportionally German.
because germans lose wars. what do you do when you lose wars ? you become a good little rationalist

german biology was also kinda important in 19th and 20th centuries desu

OP here, it's nice that at least one person understands. I did not expect this much hostility from that question.

Disproportional?

Yeah, I'm not a native English speaker. Although before anyone throws a fit, I'm not German either.

Then how come there are literally no elite universities in Germany?
They are all on the level of your local "University of bumfuck-nowhere". In Great Britain for example, there are bad, mediocre and good universities, while universities in Germany are all mediocre at best. Sure, this wouldn't be a problem if the state would give them enough money, but they are so obsessed with making every university "equal", that there will never be enough tax money to produce a German Oxbridge.

>how well structured the curricula is
There is no competition to get the most/best students, because the universities can't even decide themselves who gets accepted. So why would they bother to make anything better if doesn't get them anything? It's literally the same problem socialism has with businesses. People don't go out of their way just to achieve the "greater good for society".

>how many highly encouraged and talented students there are
When good and bad students get distributed among every university evenly, the good students are left behind. In Britain the good students go to Oxbridge and other highly ranked universities with a program specifically structured around the best students, while the bad students go to the local public University of Bumfucknowhere where everyone gets a degree thrown after them for just being there.
And in Germany? The top 10% students go to the same University of Bumfucknowhere as the bad students and get the same degree thrown after them.

If you have a 4.0 in your Abitur (equivalent to A-levels in GB, with 1.0 being the best and 4.0 being the worst mark you can achieve without dropping out) you could study mathematics at ANY German university. A student who wants to study mathematics and has a 1.0 might as well have a 4.0 and would still have the same options. A good student should have the option to go to a university that suits his skills.

Compared to their numbers in society, Jewish germans were over represented in academia, but they weren't even close to making up the majority, nor were most of the intellectual titans Jewish. For every great Jewish mathematician or physicist you could easily name ten more ethnic German of equal or greater influence/contribution. You are partially correct in that the Third Reich ruined it all, but realize much of the talent that left were gentiles too.