Why is shorting so weird?

Why is shorting so weird?
> BTC price goes down 90%, you make less than when it goes down 30%???

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or wait is the current profit added to the position so your margin profit steadily increases while its going down?

Because you are a dirty BitMexican getting fleeced.

from the sound of it I don't think you're ready to short

wtf do you even mean?
learn math you retard
also you make more shorting than you do long at bitmex for the same price move

use the calculator

He's right though.

There is diminishing returns on shorting.

>Short 1 BTC at 10k USD with 10x leverage
> BTC goes down 30% -> close position -> now have 4 BTC at 7k USD == 28k USD -> 18k USD profit
> Now imagine you close your position when bitcoin went down 90% -> now have 10 BTC at 1k USD -> 0$ profit or loss

you just don't have enough leverage.... make sure it's set to 100% to maximize your gains. bitmex also let's you play with the leverage slider so you can see what your costs and stuff move it to 100 and see what it would look like

I think what he means is that your stack becomes more and more worthless as it falls, even though you're making btc the whole way. I don't personally know the math but yeah

Thats what im currently thinking of but i have no idea if maybe the unrealised potential is added on to your position so you would actually make more because your position enlarges when BTC is going down more.

Its 100x (times) not % thats like a 50x difference bro.

It just hit me that Veeky Forums is filled with literal retards.

Mr Smart why dont you just enlighten us with your brightness?


Show your gains mr smarty pants

1BTC at 10K with 10x means you sold 100k in contracts @ $1 per contract, it drops to 1k you buy back all those contracts at 10K meaning 9k profit.

90k not 9k

profit = volume*leverage* delta

That's all there is to it ffs

short 1000 contracts from 10k to 8k
you get 0.0250 or 125% roe

long 1000 contracts from 8k to 10k on 5x
you get 0.0250 or 100% roe

that means you make more you goddamn fucking brainlets.

There is a difference whether you get paid usd or btc. OP is right, you are part long btc with your initial. If your leverage is not higher than the drop, you lose.

>also you make more shorting than you do long at bitmex for the same price move
What? No. Not in terms of real USD value. Because Bitmex is settled in Bitcoin, it's far more profitable to be long for the same price move.

If you shorted 10,000 to 7,500 with 1x leverage using one bitcoin, you would have 1.33333... bitcoin * 7500 = 10k USD

If you longed Bitcoin from 10k to 12.5k, you would have 1.2 bitcoin * 12.5 = 15k USD

Being long on Bitmex is far more profitable than being short.

you're retarded bud, just less retarded than the op.
if you're not short more than 1x, you're not short, you're hedged.
to be short, you need to actually be short.
as in greater than 1x for real, as in you own 100k, you short more than 100k.
if you sell 110k, you're short 10k.
the point being if it drops 90% you make way fucking more than 30% drop because if you're not totally fucking stupid you can see that 90% is way fucking more than 30%


Works out the same because it's settled in BTC, you get higher "ROE %" but same USD value because the asset settled in is the same one you're shorting.

0.0250*8,000 = $200
0.0250*10,000 = $250

your long example made more money lol


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Bitmex requires you to own Bitcoin to short Bitcoin.

Shorting an asset you own is pretty retarded. If it goes to 0 you get nothing lol

That's always true though. If it went to zero yuou couldn't close the short.

I think you don’t realize your own stupidity. If you short with 10x leverage and btc drops 90%, how much profit do you have compared to your initial? You’ll have 10x more btc but it’s worth 10x less than initially. This is different from shorting stocks since with stocks your positions is long usd, short stock. With bitmex you are long btc AND short btc, just with different exposures.

you are not short if you don't sell more than 1x lol
you hedge 1x at 10k then short 1x to $7500 you would have 2.6666xbt worth $20,000
if you long 1x at 10k to$12,500 you would have 1.2 xbc worth $15,000
>20% roe is more than 25% roe
>t.actual real life retard

>pic related
for you

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tell us where we can find this calculator

20% ROE long on bitmex is the same as 25% ROE short on bitmex in that case because you're still measuring your ROE in bitcoin instead of fiat.

You're making "more" in bitcoin by shorting bitcoin but you're not making more in USD.

10k to $1 short with 10x leverage -> 9,999 XBT gain valued at $9,999

10k to 19,999 long with 10x leverage -> 0.5 XBT gain valued at $9,999.5

That's trading 10,000 contracts obviously

if you long 1x on bitmex, you're actually 2x long on bitcoin, or the equivalent of buying another bitcoin on coinbase.
if you short 1x on bitmex, you're actually flat on bitcoin, or the equivalent of selling your coin on coinbase and having nothing
think it though, I know you can figure it out.

>it be tharr

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>For you
You just proved his point. You show a short that gives 10x Bitcoin but the Bitcoin is worth 1/10th the price. That's exactly what his post was saying.

>if you long 1x on bitmex, you're actually 2x long on bitcoin, or the equivalent of buying another bitcoin on coinbase.
>if you short 1x on bitmex, you're actually flat on bitcoin, or the equivalent of selling your coin on coinbase and having nothing
You are right on this but it doesn't change the fact that you make the same amount of USD for same move in price no matter the leverage, and longing is more profitable if the price of BTC doubles.


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>900% profit
>9000% roe
or did I

>longing is more profitable if the price of BTC doubles.
only if you don't compare it properly lol


Say bitcoin is 10k

It goes to 0 or it goes to 20k, both 10k movements in price but with very lopsided returns. How much does your short make if Bitcoin goes to 0?

wait yea you have to short btc faster than it goes down in Bitmexico since it settles in bitcoin. On the other hand it's not like fiat is really good for anything so I'd rather accumulate btc and know that I'm set for the next 20x btc run

Anyone using Bitmex have experience with VPNs? I'm in a jurisdiction that they don't serve but I wanna gamble too. :(

Only now?

Not if you shorted with USD retard.

>shorting with USD

Great question, I never see anyone bring this up.
Your margin and short position profits devalue with bitcoin, which leads to diminishing returns.

You lose money if bitcoin falls lower than 1/leverage * entry.

Everyone on there uses them. You only need it for the account signup. Everything else can be from a US (or wherever) connection. It's your risk, though. Technically it's illegal so I wouldn't put any more than you're willing to lose on a BitMex acc

Ive been curous about this myself. Longing has to be more profitable than shorting when there is equivalent p/l %. Since you have to use xbt to short. You would want to put up usd to short xbt.


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