Why does Veeky Forums hate Computer Science? It's probably one of the most sought-after degrees in the STEM-field...

Read: Intro to OOP.

If you do not know, OOP stands for object oriented programming. It is one (and the simplest) way of designing a program.

It would be like physicist having 'Intro to rulers' for a semester.

>It would be like physicist having 'Intro to rulers' for a semester.
lmao alright makes sense then, i havent taken any programming classes yet so wasnt sure if you were exaggerating or not

While it's true that computer science is valuable in STEM (in biology there is an excess of semi-literate lab researchers but a severe deficiency in bioinformaticians) and no one would question that, it is the actual computer scientists that no one likes.

I used to think that it is just Veeky Forums being Veeky Forums, being a biologist and not having much to do with formal CS, but having transitioned into bioinformatics and thus working with a load of CS majors I can totally see why Veeky Forums hates them in academia. They do not know anything they will actually be asked to work on.

e.g. for physical modelling, they need to have some basic understanding of physics, which they dont. For bioinformatics they need to have some basic understanding of genetics, which they dont. for computational chemistry they need some understanding of chemistry, which they dont. I could go on.

It is farrrrrr more beneficial to have a scientist who can carry out computational work and development of computational pipelines than a CS trying to grasp exactly what it is that the scientists want them to do and why. Granted they may not have as full an understanding of CS as a CS'tist but they will be much, much more functional and valuable in the long run.

Tl;dr CS'tists do not understand science, and therefore are something akin to a liability in most (not all, I have worked with some great computer scientists) cases. Make CS courses more advanced and introduce a year of "CS in STEM subjects" classes and they will be much more useful.

Universities waste a fuckload of time teaching basic shit like big-O notation or finite automata. If you're motivated and interested, you can learn this much faster.

Computer """"""science"""""" thread

Time to kill yourself op

>could've gotten into Harvard CS but instead developed a massive superiority complex about half-assedly learning about java methods when you were 15.
wew lad I don't think I've ever seen so much fail in one post

jk we both know you wouldn't have gotten into harvard CS anyways

I just used Harvard as an example to make the point that no matter how "prestigious" or "exclusive" the CS program you look for is, the level is still really low.

I never even tried applying for unis outside my country. But when I was looking for unis I first thought maybe it is just my country's CS programs that are shit. There I started checking out foreign programs and it was literally the same shit.

It makes me cry that americucks from /g/ claim that they are better at programming than "Pajeet" when they are just as shit.

You didn't learn shit when you were a teenager and your CS program was not even top 20 internationally. The early-mid classes (algorithms and data structures) are meant to weed out students. Meaning that there are topics that you can skim over and kind of grasp but the class goes over advanced material quickly. After that there are the higher level classes that go in to more modern CS topics. You're probably highly insufferable in real life.

In the U.S. the accredited CS programs include courses in the subjects you listed they don't know/have. Which freshmen/sophmores are you referring too?

>You didn't learn shit when you were a teenager

How would you know? Isn't the fact that I work as a programmer enough to show that I actually know something? I mean, literally 0% of you faggots have jobs before graduation. Okay, maybe 0.01% of you.

>there are topics that you can skim over and kind of grasp but the class goes over advanced material quickly.

You probably feel like you got me with this one but if you know anything about anything you'd know that this is true of any course of every major. I mean, read it again but forget about CS

>There are topics that you can skim over and a kind of grasp but the class goes over advanced material quickly

Doesn't that sound like literally every single class in STEM?

>You're probably highly insufferable in real life.

I don't talk about anything I've talked about here in real life. Mainly because it is personal shit and I do not like to talk personal shit outside of my personal blog :^)

>your CS program was not even top 20 internationally

Harvard is top 1 and they have some CS50 (intro to CS) classes on youtube. I actually watched them way back in the day. It all sounds good until

>Lets count in binary!
>Lets learn Scratch!

I remember they even got some students on stage to represent the bits when counting in binary, like they were doing a show for children.

>Harvard is top 1
You didn't go to Harvard

>I watched some youtube videos!
Literally lmaoing @ your life right now

>You didn't go to Harvard

I know, but it is an example of the top 1 still being shit when it comes to CS.

>I watched some youtube videos

of the CS50 class. Nice argument there, buddy. I guess your brain has started rotting from not having to think at all.

He wasn't the guy that originally replied to you. However, CS50 isn't the weedout class I'm talking about it. It comes later in algorithms and data structures. You definitely didn't learn a sufficient amount of this on your own time.

not US, UK here

Why do we need to have this thread every fucking day?

Why are you CS majors so fucking needy? You're the only faggots that seem to need constant validation and attention which is why we bully you.

>i started programming when i was age 12

So you have a 7 year head start on most CS majors? Of course you are going to be better at anything you start 7 years ahead of someone else.

> I am majoring in pure math and working as a programmer making that sweet CS money

I would hope so. You had a 7 year head start. Try not to bang your head anymore going forward in life.

yeah, taking one bio course, on chem course, and maybe two physics courses plus maybe three semesters of calc and linear algebra, all of which is forgotten mere days after the final

I don't remember anything that I learned in chem or bio and very little of what I learned in physics
it was 2-4 years ago for all of it and I never used it since

taking an intro to mechanics or into to chem course does not give you the knowledge necessary to work with academics in those fields

...

>be 15
>memorizes definition of polymorphism
>knows OOP
>disappears up own asshole

>harvard
>watched intro class
>shits easy

You mean you watched the very first class where the professor is tries to make a congenial impression and goes over the course curriculum.

Way to challenge yourself.

Autism. Not everyone can be so motivated to learn so much as a kid, user

Yes I did but that is the point. They start there. And I am only using that as an example because unlike the other topics, I actually saw the lectures and saw the content.

Otherwise the faggot would have said "Oh well, the title of the class was "trivial shit" but maybe they were doing triple integrals!" as he tried to do.

Intro to CS is exactly what it sounds like. Intro to OOP is exactly what it sounds like. And nothing even remotely nontrivial is touched before junior year.

A friend of mine who also learned programming back in the day did go through with CS and he laughs at how easy the non-math classes are.

>motivated

I was but I wouldn't say that. Reading was by between-masturbation activity. You know, you can't really cum immediately after cumming. You have to entertain yourself and wait at least half an hour before you can play the porn again. Else your dick starts hurting real bad. I learned that the bad way.

If humans had a longer penis cooldown we would all be Einstein by now. At least I would.

Someone motivated, by my standards, would not masturbate so that he could keep reading his fucking C++ tutorials.

I think any field presents a high level of complexity, given a sufficient level of depth. This idea of dismissing an entire field is absurd.

I think there is this split between the programming focused people and the more applied math side. Currently the industry demands programmers, so schools have slowly been shifty their programs to become more of a hybrid of the two disciplines, which on a whole probably degrades both sides.

To give an example we have 3 algorithms courses offered. The mandatory course serves as a transition course from an introductory programming course to the upper level courses. It is almost entirely programming, and you learn very basic ideas about the algorithmic theory. The class essentially teaches you when to use what data structure or algorithm, As well as give you some idea about time/space complexity.

The other two courses (upper level/graduate) are cross listed as math courses, if that gives you any idea to their content.

It's wrong to say that computer science isn't challenging or lacks merit, but there definitely has been a shift in. The focus of the content.

This is true but this just happens because of the presumed incompetence of the students.

Programmers are needed everywhere and simiarly they are found everywhere.

A huge percentage of people who graduate with mathematics degrees or physics degrees work in pure technology fields. Just doing programmers. Others with more experience get to combine their major with their programming skills to tackle more ambitious problems.

How can that be? Taking my major (mathematics) as an example we have just 1 mandatory programming course that as I've heard only covers matlab and R which is like 10% of what an employer will expect of a programmer.

Where are these mathematicians are physicists learning the rest? Electives? Well, that is one route but we know that the majority simply learned it on their own.

In simpler terms: Other people focus on the theory of their degree and then learn programming (and probably other practical skills) on their own with no assistance or minimal assistance (like maybe a month to get a certificate).

If that is the case why don't CS people do this? Why isn't CS just pure CS theory and no programming. Or maybe 1 programming class as is the case with other majors. CS would earn more respect as they would know more math and we would get better programmers because then only the motivated and intelligent students of CS would learn programming and the guys who don't even bother would have to go teach high school like it is the case with physicists and mathematicians.

What you are saying is like
>Students need to learn how to shave!
>Therefore lets insert intro shaving 1, intro to shaving 2, intro to shaving 3, advanced intro to shaving, intro to advanced shaving, advanced intro to advanced shaving, and advanced shaving into the curriculum.

>How much time does that leave us for the theory? Oh fuck, I guess lets teach them how to add or something.

And then thinking "Well, that is just what happens! The industry needs people who shave!"

You sound like such a jerk, these introductory level classes are aimed to people who have never once programmed anything in their entire lives, who don't know how binary works, and who don't know what a conditional statement is. They are aimed at people who are picking up their very first programming textbook. Hence, why they are fucking 101 classes.

Jesus Christ you are pissing me off, I work on a research project that is related to programming pedagogy, and the students with your attitude just grind my gears. They sit in class and try to make everyone else who didn't waste their entire youth playing video games or staring at a computer screen feel dumb, and act bored or annoyed for the entire fucking semester.

I put in so much hard work on giving students who don't have any background everything they need to get a basic understanding of all the concepts and about 15k lines of code under their belt right off the bat.

Truth is, in most schools I've seen, and the one I work at you can test out of introductory classes, if students like you weren't so asocial and retarded you could literally chat with the department head for a half hour and they would probably have let you skip a ton of classes without any effort.

BUT the truth comes out often, that smartass kids who think they don't need the introductory courses actually don't know jack shit and are just completely clueless and delusional about their abilities.

I see a lot of problems with your method of "helping".

If your programs were more elitist then maybe CS would spit out more geniuses like mathematics and physics constantly do.

At least 1 new genius comes out of those fields every year. Can you say the same of CS? Probably not. Linus was probably the last one.

Academic elitism is not bad, it is what pushes people to the top. Once people think they have power they do not want to lose it so if one kid thinks he is the smartest in his class he will immediately do anything to keep his title.

On the other hand, someone who just thinks he is equal to the rest has no incentive to move up because in his view, there is not even a ladder.

That is your view. You think there is not a ladder. That is why you help those at the bottom more than those at the top. You want to help those at the bottom so that they will reach the other kids and then everyone will be at the same step. But what does this cause? That in the end of your program everyone is at the same step.

No one is outstanding. That one kid who knew everything was not pushed further because you gave him no further steps to climb. He started at the top and ended at the top, just that by the end everyone else had already reached him. And now his talent is useless because now your toxic view was given to him: There is no ladder. You don't have to climb up because there is not even a ladder to climb.

You disgust me. You are actively killing minds. Fuck you.

There's a great deal more to programming than just a class that briefly touches upon objected oriented programming. Concurrency. Writing code that not only works, but also easy for others to grasp. Designing an interface that is easy to use, and immediately understandable is incredibly difficult.

And this argument, "you can learn it on your own" is silly. You can learn anything on your own, I learned statistics on my own. Programming is no different. You courses that focus on programming because it greatly helps to have someone extremely knowledgeable about that particular aspect teach it to you.

>t. someone going nowhere in academia
Mate are you an ug? No way your advisor puts up with that shit. God have mercy on anyone who has to collaborate with you

>If your programs were more elitist then maybe CS would spit out more geniuses like mathematics and physics constantly do.
LOL.

>At least 1 new genius comes out of those fields every year. Can you say the same of CS? Probably not. Linus was probably the last one.
Oh god, I really just hope you are trolling and not actually this retarded.

Good argument about statistics but here is a nice question:

How many self-made programmers are there? Many

How many self-made statisticians are there?

Probably not a single one. Everyone in that profession has an stats or math degree.

Source:
stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2015#profile-education

42% of programmers are self taught

On the other hand, from this source:
mastersindatascience.org/careers/statistician/

>At minimum, junior data/statistical analysts will need a bachelor’s degree in statistics, applied math, computer science or a related field. Since you will be working with complex statistical software programs, a healthy balance between hard-core math and IT courses is recommended.

So good look being a self-taught statistician. Or should I say, good luck being a self-taught person in a real profession.

programmers come a dime a dozen, good ones are a little rare. How many mathematicians are programming gurus?

I'm not a great mathematician but I know enough to get by. I imagine mathematics know enough programming to get by with basic stuff.

Just so happens people are more willing to hire a shitty programmer than a shitty mathematician these days

>If anyone cares, I am majoring in pure math and working as a programmer making that sweet CS money.
best choice right there

Welcome to autism

>computer science
>having anything to do with computers
jej

shit like this is why I'm considering switching from cs

i can't compete with the autists that have been programming since they were kids and do it for fun multiple hours a day

i hate programming

dank bait lmao

Code monkeys don't really need the degree. The typical courses for the degree are 95% worthless to everyone else.

it's not even bait

I'm sophomore in cs and hate it

i do fine in math classes, CS in general is just gay as fuck. The people, the way the classes are , what people expect you to do to get a job

I just want to make at least 50k a year and not work more than 40-45 hours a week.

>I just want to make at least 50k a year and not work more than 40-45 hours a week.
Then you should have been born in the fifties, cunt.

You all think it's shit, but why does it compete in top 5 for best-paying degree then? If it misses so much crucial stuff, one would think the employers would know this as well and not hire CS majors.

>didn't jerk off so much
>be Einstein by now
>At least I would
Do you even hear yourself, you twit?

Newton was a virgin.

>muh things were better before

But that's easy. Go into business.

>freshmen-level classes start at the basics
>this is somehow a bad thing
I took a freshmen physics class and it was mostly Newtonian mechanics REEEEEEEEEE

>tfw at #1 CS school in world
>tfw in 2.5 years going to be making 6 figures as a fresh grad
>tfw going to know much more comp sci then you
feels good man

Depends on the school and the student.

Some guy took the MIT Comp Sci curriculum - 4 years of classes - in one year, self taught with MIT's OpenCourseware materials.

Maybe 12 years ago. CS programs classes are now maybe 10-12% autists at best. The traditional white nerdy neckbeard is quite rare. It's really Asians (Southern and Eastern) these days.

I have a friend who graduated from a top 25 CS program and works on some really buzzworded up stuff for a major company now. I showed her a hard drive once and she didn't know what it was. I have a coworker who didn't know what an ethernet cable was. I'm so surprised when I find out that people like this major in CS in the first place. I don't even think they're incapable, I just don't know how it happened.

Actually avg salary is 86k at cmu, so you should make around 60k

You are cringe as fuck.

>really? Is CS major that slow?

Unbelievably so. What's fucked up is the whole class is filled with brainlets who are still failing.

ITT: everyone gets incredibly butthurt about dem sick starting salaries from top tier CS majors.

A thought experiment: if CS was just some small niche field of study like, I don't know, say paleontology, would Veeky Forums be as angry and bitter towards CS majors?

You maybe pretentious or really passionate. It's not easy to tell because you are young.
I agree that CS programs are dumbed down to an uninteresting level (for someone already familiar) for people who are taking it. Universities do that because they have the notion that students who are pursuing their programs don't have any previous experience related to that; which is true in most cases.
Students who have a drive or ambition suck it up and learn with persistence and realize later that what they were learning was really useful and not something which is used as an basis for grading. This only applies for curriculum which have been carefully drafted and good universities. They will end up with a nice degree from a prestigious university and an easy life later on.
Pretentious people may lose the drive and procrastinate and waste four years of their life on immediate pleasure and regret later when man-children end up with everything with what those people wanted in life (comfy job at a large company, economic satisfaction and independence, high potential contacts and all the related perks).
Just because you find the curricular stupid and are changing your path to a degree with less career opportunities may bite you later on. But even if you go to CS, four years would be frustrating and soul sucking.
It's a fucked up situation but think about it.

Most people in CS are fully aware of how trivial it is compared to say math or physics. We know, discrete math and linear algebra are baby shit for physics / math majors. We know, algorithms at the undergraduate level are stupid simple.

Most of us just enjoy programming, working with computers, and are looking forward to a decent salary after we graduate. I haven't heard of a single CS / SWE student around here that didn't have a job within at most 6 months after graduation. I believe development is becoming a little too saturated however, especially web development.

really? you powered through CLRS in a weekend? or maybe one weekend you decided to tackle databases, and you mastered normalization, ER diagrams, security + integrity, transactions, SQL, and design?

Not to say these are necessarily difficult, but one weekend? No. Maybe intro to OOP or basic data structures and algorithms in one weekend. I can see that.

>being this young

That depends, would they still make the same whiny threads on a daily basis?

This thread is a false flag by a butthurt physics major.

This, desu. I there are job fairs at my school spring and fall, with fairly average to large buisinesses always with people looking for cs majors, two people I know got jobs at the end of the day. Can't say I saw too many people looking for math/physics major. Even if it is a lower salary, cs is alot more easy to land a decent paying job.

The people in there are cancer. Most of the time at least. I doubt at universities like MIT you'd find easy mathematics, though they have a specialized course called "Mathematics for Computer Science" on OCW. Slightly unrelated, I think there was a case where a MIT CS major accidentally got enough credits to obtain a math degree because he took classes for fun. Unsure how true it is because I heard it from my prof (I was discussing this very same topic with him, since he studied mathematics at both MIT (Bachelors) and Harvard (PhD) and I wanted his opinion on mathematical rigour in CS.

I partly agree. Mostly Asians, but Asians are like natural autists.

Thanks for the read, I now understand baiting