Kitchen knife kthread - general

>buys Japanese knives
>treats them like western knives
>wonders why they don't respond like he expects them to

Go into any professional Japanese kitchen and look at the chef's knives there. Only the worst, dirtiest and laziest chef's will allow a patina to form. You literally don't understand how to care for your tools.

I bet you constantly have to grind out chips too, don't you?

You do realize that patina, like gun bluing, is just another variety of rust, right? It's only preferable in that it reacts a very thin layer of the metal without pitting too deeply, as normal rust does. But it can certainly give way to rust if you're not careful. Looks like you weren't too careful with yours.

>I don't even know what carbon steel is, let alone how to maintain it!
Oh, good to know!

>using carbon fibers for a knife
HOLY SHIT you are a fucking retard lmao

>using knives

I'd buy the 240mm and never look back. A larger blade offers much more room for your knuckles, too. if you find your cutting board to be too small buy a good larger one. For a hobbycook it's a once in a lifetime investment.

>general

Funny to see the debate in this thread about patina.

White people tend to fetishize carbon knives and form patinas then circlejerk about how "nice" their patina is. But Japanese chefs keep their fully carbon knives utmost clean like said. It's funny how it's a reflection of culture.

It's kind of annoying to see the clueless weebs who sell knives and fetishize them without much knowledge.

Other user already answered good enough. 240 is the generally accepted universal gyuto. In addition to knuckle clearance, once you actually choke up with a pinch grip it won't feel so large. (also don't purchase from CKTG)

>don't purchase from CKTG
Because?

Not an investment. And I didn't find that knife to be particularly good.

> $350 Masamoto Gyuto
> White steel #2
I think you probably want to spend on a properly sized cutting board first, then 2+ good wetstones / diamond plates, and only then that knife.

You can't prevent patina from forming on a carbon steel knife. Stop pretending you know dick from shit. Unless you kept your knife in a vacuum and never cut anything with it, it's gonna get a patina.

The owner apparently was acting like an expert when he opened his shop, stole advice/knowledge from more experienced people and profited off of it, undercut people, had bad relations with knife sellers/makers, etc. etc. I'm sure there's a bunch of beefs I don't know about because I wasn't interested in knives when it happened. Basically it's a bunch of drama between the two dudes and the hobbyist community. I wouldn't trust the owner for advice, but if you've done your homework on what you want and the price is cheap, who am I to tell you where to shop?

Why are you so butt mad? For the record, I really like carbon blades/patina. You can't prevent a patina, but you can remove it and clean the knife, that's what Japanese chefs do. All I'm saying is it's interesting to see the difference in practice/culture.

>thinking that allowing rust to form is the best way to "maintain" your carbon steel blade

>doesn't know what carbon steel is
>calls other people retarded

It is. Look up other similar processes like gun blueing and aluminium anodising. The right kind of rust prevents the wrong kind of rust.

you don't know what living is until you've slap chopped the shit out a joocy ass ribeye

>using carbon gas to pressurize a knife
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
the Veeky Forumsunts dont even know what metal is

>carbon fiber
>knives
Retard.

>Why are you so butt mad
I'm just an angry guy. I'm kind of always at this level. I understand what you're saying now, by the way.

>9
lol

What's a neckbear approved knife shop that isn't in Japan or on Warren Street?

I know what patina is and why people acid-wash their knives to get a layer of it formed. I wouldn't say that it's "the best" way to maintain a carbon steel knife, though. The best way to keep an eye on the corrosion formation is to remove the corrosion at the soonest opportunity and keep a layer of oil on the knife when it's not in use.

Where you at? Unless that doesn't matter. And what's wrong with Japan? Apart from long shipping times, some of the best deals to be had are buying direct.

I have heard some professional chefs say that they prefer a 10" chef's knife or 240mm gyuto, but that their most used "line knife" or "workhorse knife" is actually an 8 inch petty or slicer - meaning that they would use the shorter profile knife for a wider range of tasks.

What would be the reasoning behind this and how much functionality is sacrificed with the shorter/narrower blade over a full size gyuto?

Knives that big are just plain unwieldy in a tight, busy kitchen. Ideally, in a large clutter free, easy flowing work space, a bigger knife is always better

Can someone post the 'how to sharpen knife' series of images?

I'm not entirely sure, since I use a chef's knife most (keep several of them in my kit as a result), but I know plenty of cooks who use the smaller/thinner knife on the line because a lot of line stations have small prep spaces and a narrower blade (slicer as opposed to chef) works fine for most tasks. I use a wider blade most because of the clearance, I tend to use it as a scoop and paddle to move stuff around, and overall comfort for my hands. I get more hand-claw syndrome when I use narrower blades more. I choke up on my grip a lot, which could also be a part of it.

My workhorse is a 270mm gyuto.

Why images when youtuube is so much better?

I'm not in Japan and don't speak Japanese. I have no interest in booking an overseas trip for a knife. I've been there twice and it's nice but this is a knife not a woman

I'm not looking for a custom mirror finish honyaki kiritsuke, just a normal working knife

Old sabs are pretty nice, nothing made for a while has been. The classic answers to your classic question are vitx fibrox or wursties. My suggestion is the latter, as well as a decent steel and whetstone. Will provide far better results when you work out what you're doing. Best of luck.
pro tip, giving it a once over on the steel after use will ensure it stays that way. Sharp knives are a lot easier to keep sharp than blunt ones are to put a good edge on.
What country are you in?

only thing I use when I chop up the good stuff

The US, of course

You are aware that you can buy stuff over the internet from Japan without having to book a plane ticket, right?

I personally hate french bolsters, unless I need to open a coconut, a can or a hard shell of some kind. I use the heel of my knife often, and french bolsters get in the way. Consider a gyuto or german chef's knife. Just think about it.

Yeah but all the Jap websites I've seen either have broken Engrish and some fucked up Yahoo store platform, or are obscenely expensive, or a shitty selection, or only do orders via email.

Seriously?
japanesechefsknife.com/

All of those are wrong.

If you aren't using german steel you fucked up.

Exactly the one I had in mind when I posted that

Is there nothing that has options to filter by knife type, steel type, etc? Instead of just a clusterfuck of knives by brand?

WHAT THE FUCK? How can something that sharp be legal???

>Is there nothing that has options to filter by knife type, steel type, etc?

Oh, what a shitty design. They hide that option the second you get off the main page, I've never even noticed it.

It is what it is. All I'm trying to show is that there are Japanese websites that have what you are probably looking for and are perfectly legit. There are American and European sellers too. I don't know why you are excluding sellers based on their website design or the fact that they use a Yahoo shopping platform. If the store has a good reputation in the knife community, then they are legit to buy from. Any other questions?

And also, holy shit this is not a search option, who the fuck designed this? If I'm looking to compare 240mm sujis, give me a list of 240mm sujis FFS, not a list of "powder steel blade" with an explanation of the benefits

This is why CKTG is so great, even though people hate the owner. The site makes it fairly easy to compare products.

If you don't understand why someone would be shopping for a powdered steel blade or a carbon steel blade, then you have no business buying a chef's knife that costs over about $50. There are several available on ebay in the $50-60 range. That might be more of what you're looking for.

Oh, so if I don't want to be bukkake'd with a bunch of extraneous text before being allowed to view the list it means I don't deserve to shop there? Fuck off JCK shill, this is why people buy from CKTG. I just want a list of the sujis and the specs and price for each, not a wall of broken English that explains (poorly) the different steel types.

It's not their job to babysit clueless buyers who don't know what they're doing. All the information is there if you knew what you wanted.

>my bad interface design is the user's fault
It's called database normalization, and obviously they didn't do it.

This is why you're losing business. If this is flying over your head hire someone to do it. Even an Indian contractor could do a better job than that.

You're definitely on the spectrum.

Look at all these options! Two or three clicks to get to what you want on one page, instead of fifty clicks and trying to remember it all in your head as you go!

Kindly do the needful and revert with upgradated design at the earliest.

t. Pradeep

I want a -rest of your life- type of kitchen knife set, I'm not a girl so I shop with my hands not my eyes but I'd still like a few reccomendations on good knives

Does anyone here have any experience with ceramic knifes?

I'm really curious about them, the price doesn't seem too bad but I don't want to waste my hard earned cash if they are shit.

>has more money than he knows what to do with
>has never heard of reading reviews or going to forums to talk with people who have more experience than him

Do you let the salesmen at brick-and-mortar stores upsell you too?

The initial edge lasts a very long time, but they do go dull eventually and when they do, they're impossible to resharpen. Basically a disposable knife.

How I shop for a knife:

>What kind of knife do I want? - Suji
>What length? - 240mm
>Handle? - western
>What kind of steel? - preferably White or Blue, definitely not kurouchi, stainless clad ok but not necessary
>Budget? - $150-250 with some flexibility
>Next step - get the list of knives

How you shop for a knife:

>google.com
>wat knife iz gud?
>Shillforum says: Brand X
>user: Ooh oh oh I got brand x! I totally win!

Yeah I'm totally the gullible one here

Interesting, I bet I could sharpen it with an angle grinder and a wet stone polishing pad but I doubt it's worth the effort.

IIRC, you need special extra hard diamond stones and even then, it's very easy to chip the edge. Why don't you want to get a steel knife?

I am chef at a deep sea lumberjack underwater logging camp and we are currently working in an area with a lot of naval mines

>come to knife thread expecting to be spoonfed
>someone is stupid enough to spoonfeed you
>WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU JUST FUCKING SAY ABOUT ME YOU LITTLE BITCH
>HOW DARE YOU PRESUME TO KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT KNIVES TO TRY TO HELP ME
>ONLY I AM THE KNIFE MASTER

You sound like a real pleasant person to hang out with irl.

Fun. Why don't you want to get a steel knife, though?

I was complaining about the UX of a website, and you spergoids tried to turn it into an argument about knife knowledge

Please tell Mr. Kagayaki his astroturfers suck just as much as his web designers

The mines detonate if I have a steel knife to chop the sea lettuce

>Why don't you want to get a steel knife?

I have steel knives, and they are perfectly fine.
I'm not even looking to buy a new knife right now, I'm just curious about the ceramic ones so I decided to ask about them here.

Why do I have to be your fucking therapist and explain life to you? No, that's not what you were doing and you know it. Now take your autistic screeching out of the thread. Nobody likes you here.

No U

And remember: database normalization. Have him pass that on to Pradeep, he'll know what to do.

is there an advantage to a western double grind v a eastern chisel grind?

i feel like the single would be way less upkeep, you just go for it on a whetstone

It's not quite what you're probably thinking, the geometry is kind of complicated and fussy compared to the symmetrical geometry of a western profile blade.

If you want simple upkeep and find the freehanding annoying, just get a decent guided system like an edgepro.

Single bevel knives don't work well if you're wrong-handed, which is about 12% of the population. They were originally used mainly for cutting fish, although they work fine for a variety of foods. I have an inexpensive ajikiri (small deba) that I use to debone chicken.

>i feel like the single would be way less upkeep, you just go for it on a whetstone
It's actually a complex bevel, requiring several additional steps when sharpening, so if it's just about upkeep, I'd prefer a symmetrical double grind.
youtube.com/watch?v=kA0vdeDDSJI

You can cut straight slices of hard foods like potatoes or yams with a double grind.

Why do these threads always seem to attract the most autistic people on this website? It's not like we can talk about kitchen knives or sharpening with water stones on /k/ and expect any kind of productive conversation. Can't you idiots just behave yourselves?

The threads work fine as long as the senpai/kohai dynamics aren't upset. The spergoids feed off the sensation of lording it over someone who isn't knowledgeable.

The trouble happens if someone posts a question that doesn't call for an extremely simple (and preferably condescending) answer. If you show the slightest amount of prior knowledge of the subject, or (god forbid) have a question that the spergoids can't actually answer, they grow fangs and decide it's time to have a pissing contest over who memorized the most knife brands.

The best was the thread where some neckbeard got mad that someone wasn't respecting his shitty condescending advice and he ended up crapflooding with like 100 pictures of himself stabbing phone books with his pocket knife. I wish I had screencapped it.

These threads are populated by weeabos that think they know everything about knives and places value on themselves based on how Weeabo their knives are.

Their jimmies are rustled if someone talks about something out of their comfort zone or criticizes their favorite chinese cartoon/knife.

Any more comments from the peanut gallery?

> their favorite chinese cartoon/knife.
What does that even mean? Was there an anime about knives that I'm not aware of?

It means someone knew more about his own knife and he's playing tsundere to deflect
>i-it's not like I knew what a hamaguri-ba was s-senpai
>j-ja-pan? that's in china right?

if you can ignore the shilling in this video, the method and technique are pretty well proven

youtube.com/watch?v=kFhMGJYhYpU

here's a video from ATC where they review a Bob Kramer series knife (among others). Note the images of his edge compared to others:

youtube.com/watch?v=e50gujs4l-I

Thoughts on Takamura HSPS?

>I want a -rest of your life- type of kitchen knife set, I'm not a girl so...

what does your chosen gender have to do with anything at all related to knife shopping? If you want recommendations, I'm sure you'll get plenty here, but you don't have to be an attention whoring snowflake faggot about it. kys.

Because the overwhelming majority of kitchen knife knowledge is experience based and therefore cannot be empirically proven, so it's extremely easy to troll these threads and get the people who actually know things angry because they have no way of defending themselves against the shitposting and trolling since there is no outside empirical evidence anyone can point to so prove they are right.

And since Veeky Forums has an enormous proportion of outright shitposters, having any sort of productive conversation about knives becomes impossible.

Not only that, but even more so than in the pocket knife and utility knife community online, kitchen knife discussion tend to suffer from an extreme lack of technical knowledge about metallurgy, heat treatments, steel choices, sharpening techniques and equipment beyond the simplest use of waterstones, and blade geometries.

And in the absence of technical knowledge and empirical data, you end up in a circlejerk morass of opinions with nothing concrete to back them up.

It's like a discussion about the causes of disease before the widespread use of the microscope where the people arguing for the germ theory of disease are being shouted down and trolled by "bad air" and "divine retribution" supporters.

Basically, if you actually want to learn something about kitchen knives and sharpening you need to go to a specialized forum about the topic online and take your chances there.

>making sense
>reasonable insight

why are you even on Veeky Forums?

>apparently...

Stop spreading rumors. You pretty much admit you don't actually know firshand, so why all the hearsay?

Not every board has the astronomical shitposting rate that Veeky Forums does. I just learned not to waste my time trying to share any knowledge in knife threads on this board.

Now even the coffee threads have been totally overrun by shitposting so it's probably time to abandon this board entirely, really.

>its not their job to make the shopping experience better for their customer

...sure

Still at it?

I just ordered a Tojiro DP Gyuto for shits and gigs, I just hope it takes a decent beating. Im not going to be nice to it. Thats a promise.

That's what I use mine for, but after picking up a Fujiwara FKM sujihiki, I kind of wish I'd went with Fujiwara for everything. The fit and finish is much, much better, for practically the same price. On both my Tojiro DP gyuto and petty, I had to do a little bit of deburring work on the spine of the blade, and there were tiny gaps in the handle inserts out of the box. It will be a good "beater" knife for me to experiment with the limits I can take VG10 without getting any chipping.

well, maybe ill put it on the list of fun toys to try out. I just needed a go between from the kitchen rental knives, my fancy knives, and my home OXO good grips (which are actually pretty fucking nice, ive used em daily for 6+ years?) I'll take it to work and beat the kinks out of it and see how it handles. It might be too light for heavy prep work, but if Im more concerned with edge retention and easy re-honing with it than sharpness and balance like I would my Shun/Globals.