Congratulations on this republitards, seriously

If it ain't broke, don't fix it

Something like the trans pacific partnership deal would have helped. thebalance.com/what-is-the-trans-pacific-partnership-3305581

But gender studies majors and high school dropouts on both the right and the left decided that their hysterical knee jerk social media freakouts made them better experts on trade then people who had studied it their whole lives.

Tariffs aren't the problem. The problem is working with China is a huge hassle. You don't own the land your factory is on, you have to work with local chinese businesses and you have no expectation of copyrights at all. Chinese businesses don't face that restriction when working here at all.

We need better and smarter laws to fix that but right wing fags are retards that think all government is bad and left wing fags are retards that think money grows on trees.

>steal
they're selling you goods at such a great price you'd be a fool not to take it

>The problem is working with China is a huge hassle. You don't own the land your factory is on, you have to work with local chinese businesses and you have no expectation of copyrights at all. Chinese businesses don't face that restriction when working here at all.
that's the HUGE issue that needs tackling, Trump was a dumbass to make it a tariff issue

Since when does trading equate to stealing? Every company that goes into china voluntarily chooses so, they knew what they were getting into. The fact is, a lot of companies do business with china because the payoff is too good to resist.

> US imports 3x as much from China than it exports to China.
> China already had tariffs on US products

They are just mad that dumping steel that is shit quality is no longer as feasible as it was.

Every time you buy from China you aren't buying US made goods which in turn contributes our GDP to them. China has huge benefits like little to no regulation, we do which drives up the final price

Good, i'm sick of the substandard Chinese crap being peddled around by dropshipping faggots

Make Western industry great again

>China has huge benefits like little to no regulation, we do which drives up the final price
exactly, this is great for anybody who has to buy this product from China

Now the guy fired from the Steel mill can work in lets say a Automotive factory that has bigger profits thanks to being able to reduce its input costs
People have the choice to buy American made products, however the Expected Utility from Chinese products are better, this is the free market at work

Great, cheap SPY for me
>retards on /biz prefer to buy high, sell low

Chinese are the scum of the earth op and there are no limits to how they will cheat lie and steal from Westerners. They already tax all of our exports to death. Their entire economy is built off our money they won’t win a trade war. Also you dumb lib shit if Hillary was in China would have invaded us by 2020 as approved by the deep state. Thank your little soyboy nuts we have a president willing to take down China.

You know shit about shit

>you should have just continued taking our massive cheap steel dick up your ass like a good goy

Holy fuck, Mondays gonna be bad.

great argument

That cheap steel was GREAT for all of the businesses that were buying steel, The only people that were 'hurt' were people in a declining industry.

Only a idiot would be protectionist to a declining industry

>exactly, this is great for anybody who has to buy this product from China
It's great for the short term, but the money leaves our economy, even if it comes back it might be 50% of what we originally spent on them because we don't export as much to china.

>Now the guy fired from the Steel mill can work in lets say a Automotive factory that has bigger profits thanks to being able to reduce its input costs
Input costs are not reduced in our country because of government regulation

Legit had no idea they bought anything from us in the first place
Those Chinese tariffs won't do shit

Prepare to die, faggot

this

>socialism for all nonwhites
Good, maybe they'll all finally die

It's broke.

>t. guy still using windows xp

retarded. Trump has forced EU to team up with them and now they will both destroy the chinese steel dumping.

the trade deficit with China must be halted or the west will be very poor in a generation and the soulless chink will rule the world.

truly, a chink is even worse than a jew.

India still won't be a super power even if all the whites died Pajeet.

neoliberal kikes btfo

Our real value is in our IP.

China can do nothing but copy, which is why they'll never get ahead.

wht does it mean for me though? anything I buy that is made in china is cost more?

alright user I will explain to you

Assume I run a factory where I am the only employee, it uses only US Steel which I buy at $100 to produce a product which I sell at $110, my expected profit margin without trade is $10
Free trade happens and I have two options
1. Buy american Steel for $100
2. Buy Chinese Steel for $90

I choose to buy Chinese steel and now I have a profit margin of $20.

Assume my friend Joe wants to open a factory where there is no free trade where he is the only employee
- the price of US steel is $100
- but the product he wants to sell has a market price of $90
- he decides to not enter the market.
- Chinese Steel comes on the market for $80 and now he can afford to enter the market
- Joe now adds to the US economy

Assume free trade is closed, Joe has to close down his factory and is now unemployed, and I lose some of my profits.

>what happens to the Steel Industry
Option 1.
I have a US steel plant that sells steel at $100 but It takes me $80 to get all of the materials. Chinese steel sells steel at $90 acquiring materials for it at $70 so now to compete I have to sell steel at $90, I lose the $10 of profit but then the next guy gains the $10 in said profit in addition Chinese companies have $20 of profit. Therefore there's $10 more profit overall compared to before.

Option 2.
I have a US steel plant that sells steel at $100 but it takes me $95 to get all the materials.
Chinese steel sells at $90 so I go out of business.

I am now unemployed, and I need $5 to live

However due to the Chinese steel the Micheal my friend makes $10 in extra profit and he can afford to hire a new employee at $5 per unit to produce more products.

As a consumer I will see cheaper products produced from Micheal's firm due to the higher supply, therefore I have more money to spend on other things.

The only person that "loses" is the steel industry, which is a declining industry as it's labor intensive and we are labor scarce

Why do we have worker protection laws? Is it so we can fire all our workers and just use foreign slave labor? Is that the reason? Yeah we'd be fools not to undercut our own people. Fuck the American workers with their higher cost of living, which is the result of their ancestors building a country with better infrastructure. We should give jobs to people who are (1) objectively inferior, judging from the state of the countries they currently live in, (2) make lower quality products, (3) never seem to invent anything, but are really good at stealing other people's inventions, and (4) are foreigners and not OUR PEOPLE. FUCK our people, they should just become robots or something.

>no regulation is good
Cheap steel kills people, dumbass. Pic related.

scmp.com/news/china/society/article/1910068/building-collapse-during-deadly-taiwan-earthquake-linked-shoddy

Attached: Screenshot from 2018-03-25 03-08-01.png (1366x768, 913K)

Joe's product only has a market price of $90 because of FREE TRADE YOU FUCKING IDIOT. If there are tariffs on foreign imports of said product, and the American-made version costs more to make, then the market value IN THE AMERICAN MARKET will be more. Not only is the American market all we need, but there are plenty of international customers who will pay a premium for American quality.

get a job

Nah it's the fags on the left who bought the global warming meme and let Obama shut down cheap energy production like coal in the US that caused industry to move to China. We don't need thousands more pages of trade jargon to put the economy further in the hands of lawyers and ivory tower Keynesians.

I will explain it to you:

Assume I run a factory where I am the only employee, it uses only US steel which I buy at $100 to produce a product which I sell at $110. It doesn't matter what my profit margin is because 100% of the money is being circulated back into the US economy, Joe working at the steel plant is going to spend his wages on rent and goods and services in America.

Now there is $90 Chinese steel. If I choose this option then $90 of every unit imported is being taken out of the US economy. Ching Chong working at a Chinese steel plant will use his pay earned from Americans to buy Chinese made noodles and overpriced apartments. This American money is now circulating in china.

America doesn't export as much to china so there is more money leaving US soil than coming in.

Please get emotion out of a debate.
>Why do we have worker protection laws?
1. Any valuable service/produce above baseline gets far more than the basic government enacted regulations, in this economy you literally have to have 0 standards to be paid minimum wage
2. We actually we've a labor shortage in many level fields such as CS, we literally cannot employ enough people to do the work we need to have done, therefore it is advantageous to move people away from other fields to do more profitable ventures, look up comparative advantage.

>foreign slave labor
they choose these jobs because being paid is much better than NOT being paid, they are not forced into the jobs.
>b-b-buh they all slaves!
yet meanwhile you see many middle class Chinese people emerging which study and travel outside of the country because they acquired better skills that let them work in less labor intensive industries.
and? people can easily look into the Steel they buy and choose different options, that's the free market at work.
> FREE TRADE YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
Yes i'm the idiot, when you cannot even come up with a intelligent reply.
> American-made version costs more to make, then the market value IN THE AMERICAN MARKET will be more.
You don't understand do you. Money doesn't come out of thin air. People who are buying inflated prices have less money to spend on other things.

How is your "Joe" point even relevant? With your shit example he deserves to go out of business for really poor practices. Selling his product for less then what he would purchase it for? Then there's the point that he is "adding" to the american economy? If he himself makes $10 and $80 is leaving the fucking country.... that's not adding volume to local economy.

ofc its good for the producers who use steel as inputs...
But what about the losses of jobs or concerning quality of Chinese steel and higher costs of maintenance associated with this?

Wrong. That $80 is essentially lost the US economy. What you wrote is Jewish economics

>America doesn't export as much to china so there is more money leaving US soil than coming in.
I fully understand the Financial account of the US is net negative for quite some while. This is however not an issue for the private sector as long as the Investment of US citizens is high, which it is very high. China has a very high savings rate (low consumption) which is why its financial account is in good health.

A quick explanation is that we have a trade deficit due to high consumer spending and low savings.

The biggest issue is US govt. spending, not private sector spending, as the Govt cannot afford to easily repay its deficits.

> It doesn't matter what my profit margin is because 100% of the money is being circulated back into the US economy,
Money has a certain throughput per day, and money is an abstraction to productivity so it doesn't quite work that way.

we also have a labor shortage in the US, which is bad for industries that want to expand.
>America doesn't export as much to china so there is more money leaving US soil than coming in.
That doesn't become an issue until the consumer trade deficit reaches a high point relative to GDP and unemployment is high.

We just run up liabilities to foriengers, which isn't by default bad

lolbergtardians are the ultimate bugmen

It's a simplified example because I cannot explain a course on international economics on here.

yes there's a chain and you can explain where the money is heading, but I can assure you the money is not "lost".

Joe is an example of people entering the market who wouldn't be able to before, if you guys took a course in economics you'd realize this as long term equilibrium in a perfectly competitive industry
>higher costs of maintenance associated with this?
it's priced in with the cost of buying it
> concerning quality of Chinese steel
again priced in, if the quality mattered they'd buy higher quality steel just like richer people will buy more expensive lawyers and budget airlines havn't drove luxurious airlines out of business
>jobs
we have a labor shortage in the U.S, we literally cannot keep up with demand, there's no reason to hang onto jobs that can be cut for higher efficiency

>pork
I hope they do beef next.
My bi-weekly steak dinner has been consuming a larger and larger share of my food budget.

>it's priced in with the cost of buying it
lol is that right? Cool to provide that point to poorly defend the argument. Also this because the Chinese only care about giving us a great "deal" - delusional.
>again priced in, if the quality mattered they'd buy higher quality steel just like richer people will buy more expensive lawyers and budget airlines havn't drove luxurious airlines out of business
America is about profits and self productions. Don't try and make this a fatcat argument.
>we have a labor shortage in the U.S, we literally cannot keep up with demand, there's no reason to hang onto jobs that can be cut for higher efficiency
I am not even going to waste time with this poor argument.

I am fairly confident you have no understanding of anything of this topic.

>lol is that right? Cool to provide that point to poorly defend the argument. Also this because the Chinese only care about giving us a great "deal" - delusional.
Business gather huge amounts of data based on maintenance of their factories and will price it in on the costs.
westgard.com/guest5.htm
>America is about profits and self productions. Don't try and make this a fatcat argument.
Consumers have a choice in the products they buy. Many US business operate by offering a better quality product at a higher price. The consumer deems Steels quality does not warrant its price increase at the current supply, which is why they are being out competed. This is the free market in action, If I wanted US higher quality steel I would purchase it at its fair market price.
>I am fairly confident you have no understanding of anything of this topic.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff

Economics was my second major and I can provide proof from class documents that we cover this topic extensively. I will no longer reply to you as you seem to argue basic on what you think what will happen instead of what actually happens, and I don't have time for an internet argument.

The Japs have had tariffs against our cars since the 1980s I remember drunk old fags bitching about it in my childhood. Every country is allowed to tariff our goods but we just have to open our mouths and eat whatever they give us.

Why the fuck do redneck cunts even want to be coal miners and steel fags when you can make twice as much in the trades or a laid back white collar job. Seriously, conservatives complain the most about welfare precipitants and not having enough grunt labor jobs, but are the biggest unemployment / disability leaches and would obviously not even take the minimum wage job killing yourself in a coal mine or machine operator in a factory where people get injured every day even if they were available. Cuckservatives love playing the victim and blaming others instead of getting off their ass an learning an actually profitable trade. They get baited into voting for corrupt fucks who promises them handouts or support their delusion that their personal failure is due to immigrants instead of their own laziness.

That's just the Free Market™, goy. Economists who work for neoliberal think-tanks know what's best for you.

The TPP was shit and would have let companies sue and win against governments in BS damage seeking tort fiascos. Fuck off lawyers your profession is dead. In 20 years AI will do everything you do only not as badly.

Lets say china decides to stop making iPhones.
What then?

also here you go
>I am not even going to waste time with this poor argument.
hrdive.com/news/labor-shortages-top-the-2018-list-of-small-business-concerns/516259/
money.cnn.com/2018/01/17/news/economy/us-worker-shortage/index.html

if you go to the department of labor statistics you'll see the huge expected demand for people in the service industry, STEM fields specifically.

they think that adapting out of a dying industry is a bad thing, there's much better jobs out there dying for more workers.

You're a deluded moron if you think your average low skill blue-collar worker has the intellectual ability to work white-collar jobs.
>just go to Harvard and get a comp sci degree, bro
is the shittiest advice you can give working-class people; it's absolutely useless for them.

pic relatad

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what the fuck Im a communist now

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Like I trust your biased documents or your "major" from a liberal school of thought of professors taking unproven hypotheticals and brainwashing open minded individuals for high debt and a letter grade. There's a reason why they are professors and not making making use of their "economic understanding"...
I'll take that as a concession because you provide shit examples, back them up with very vague or shit arguments, then decide to cut off a point of someone who is challenging your train of thought.

That is correct. I have a degree in Compsci and it's way too difficult for me even though I was among the best. Compsci is not for everyone, srsly. If you didn't routinely code at a young age, don't persue it, maybe.

>n-no it's not fair they have on us therefor we can have on them!!

What you retards don't understand is that the US doesn't have the capacity to take the retaliations that would come from such tariff shitflinging. This is the reason why there's more tariffs on the US than the US is imposing on others - you grew an economy where your companies technically colonize the rest of the world and that comes at a cost, one of which being that you cannot enter trade wars with the rest of the world because you lose that privilege, and with it, your inflated economy

price rise or a shortage occurs while factories move to other countries
>You're a deluded moron if you think your average low skill blue-collar worker has the intellectual ability to work white-collar job
People who lose their job in a dying field is a transition pain, but there's many other possible jobs they can go for and community college is relatively inexpensive.
>what about the future?
many schools offer CS programs early on for students so that it's easier for them to go in those kind of fields.

Or you can an electrician, plumber, mason, etc. All of these jobs pay way, way more than the horrid coal mining shit most Trump supporters act like they want. And they are actually safe jobs that can be careers where you can start your own business.

You need either knowledge or skills, or you are literally no more useful than some grunt worker in china. Why should the government rig up taxes to force people to pay you money to work a job a chinese grunt can do for 1/10th the price?

What do you even want. Literally nothing would change your mind and you have no economic education nor any higher education as you think people are sheep and don't do actual studies on people.

I literally gave you proof of the last time a steel tariff was imposed and there was a huge job loss, literally whats the point.

You spineless worm.

CS is being taught at a young age in schools, also many non-CS fields ask for coding experience if you want a job as it provides a huge increase in productivity. Programming is one of the big future skills and should be pushed more on students imho.

>That is correct. I have a degree in Compsci and it's way too difficult for me even though I was among the best. Compsci is not for everyone, srsly. If you didn't routinely code at a young age, don't persue it, maybe.
To add a consideration here: I think if you removed the bottom 90% coders, overall productivity would only go down by maybe 50%. Right now everyone and their dog is shoehorned into compsci. Overall software quality goes down in every software on the entire world. The field should really be left to the type of geniuses who started everything in the 60s.

I want OUR economy to grow. If there's such a shortage of jobs then the small businesses need to raise their rate of pay so that people WOULD want to work. Also stated before instead of having a welfare reliant country, why not tell people to work for a respectable wage and actually have structure in their life... We wouldn't need to borrow money or have excessive spending if we just kept the volume fucking local than relying on fucking other countries for an economy to grow.

What I think needs to happen is reward locally and if you need to go out and spend your money externally than you damn as well be getting a HELL of a deal.

You absolute niggers, no one is forcing US companies to operate on chinese soil, lol. They do it because china has better and cheaper logistics, labour and taxes. Just get your shit and leave, problem solved. If that's too much hassle to you, you can stay. We'll just cuck you out of everything you've got

the absolute state of china
liveleak.com/view?t=aykGp_1521720679

Hello Chinese Government

You do realize that Japan has no automobile tariffs? American cars are simply unpopular in Japan and you guys refuse to cater designs towards them. European cars, typically luxury brands, do well in Japan.

>Also stated before instead of having a welfare reliant country, why not tell people to work for a respectable wage and actually have structure in their life...
You can have fair wages and welfare if you remove the (((IRS))) and the (((Fed))) and the (((other leeches))). You can't MAGA unless you revert 1913.

Just point out that China has no environmental controls whatsoever and buy deincentivizing China products you are slowing global warming, not to mention the environmental cost of shipping junk across a ocean.

>100% true.

>American cars are simply unpopular in Japan
Or anywhere in the world. They couldn't be used on the Autobahn, they'd fall apart, and nobody could afford the enormous petrol usage in other countries. Your petrol price is substitued by war, others actually pay for theirs.

The entire world's oil price is protected by the US navy, we are also the 3rd biggest oil producer in the world only after Russia and Saudi Arabia.

>Just point out that China has no environmental control
Well they execute at least 300 gooks per day, isn't that something?

IRS - We need taxes to make sure basic services and structure exist as a nation...
FED - I am all for cutting services that aren't necessary...
LEECHES - yeah that's the point....

Services are made to be assistance in a time of need.... not a source of income. Libs fucking to a beneficial service and made it a pipeline of votes by promising free money to those who "need" it.

Factories move to other countries and there will be increased cost for Apple to establish a new supply chain. Apple will either eat the new costs, which bites into future growth, or it raises its price, which makes them less competitive to other brands.

So it would be bad for Apple, unless the new factories and supply logistics are so efficient that the cost of relocation is balanced.

>I want OUR economy to grow.
user our economy is growing, Im not even trying to be condescending when I say this but please do more research on the subject

The media likes to say "STEEL AND COAL IS DYING" but neglect to mention the number of fields that are booming in the US., Capital intensive fields are on the rise while labor intensive fields are declining.
>inb4 I get called for shitier argument
here is something to read on the subject
>investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalintensive.asp
>investopedia.com/terms/l/laborintensive.asp

If you want our economy to grow we need to move out of labor intensive industries so industries with higher profit margins can employ people.A CS firm makes a MUCH larger profit per employee than a steel industry firm.
>if there's such a shortage of jobs then the small businesses need to raise their rate of pay so that people WOULD want to work.
They do, but there's simply not enough qualified people to fill positions, that's the problem so firms cannot expand their scope of operations. There's no reason to prop of a unprofitable industry when a profitable industry needs employees

>we just kept the volume fucking local than relying on fucking other countries for an economy to grow.
Again I will tell you to do more research on the subject, but in short the problem is we don't have infinite labor to produce things, if it was more profitable to produce things domestically they would. However you instead can produce good X and trade for good Y instead of producing good X and Y if it trading you nets you more of good X and Y, which is what we do.

Economcics isn't some Voodoo field user.

Chinese also lose the jobs and local investment, so it's bad for both.

>We need taxes to make sure basic services and structure exist as a nation...
Just use kickstarter.

Anybody else anxiously awaiting the day when we start just fucking shooting shitlibs?

Get help user.

I have a bullet just for you, shitlib. Once we separate the wheat from the chaff, USA global dominance for the next 500 years is assured.

Imagine being this brainwashed.
You people literally want to be slaves.

The entire would should have global free trade.

I can't believe our leaders are too cucked to do this.

imagine being this oblivious to shit tier bait.

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>I have a bullet just for you, shitlib.
No you don't. You're all talk no walk.

What should I short on Monday?

We're the only ones that are trying NOT to get economy cucked.
Fuck you, you want to be poor with no jobs.

Overall trade is good. There are winners and losers of course. But government trying to step in a selectively tariff certain things to protect obsoleted professions is just trying to pick winners and losers to pander to voters. In the end its inevitable that unskilled, uneducated people are going to have a hard time being competitive in first world countries where education / training is so accessible.

If you are so lazy you can't learn a new trade to be competitive then you probably aren't willing to kill yourself in a coal mine for $8/hour even if those jobs did still exist.