>Be me, a fat whale >Own 2% of all of whatever PoS coin (let's just call the coin itself "POS") >My POS stake is worth $2 billion USD. >PoS-defenders argue that because I own a significant amount of POS, I am incentivized to support the network and not attack it. >However, because I'm a greedy cunt, I pool together a few other whales and we agree to all enter short positions on POS by purchasing short futures at 100x leverage. >Soon after we purchase the futures, the whale collective attacks and manipulates the POS network, destroying the coin's credibility and shattering its value. >I may lose the $2 billion of POS, but I end up making, say, $20 billion off the leveraging of just $100 million.
PoS is a trash system, and the second futures contracts exist for a PoS coin, that coin will die. Prove me wrong.
You're absolutely right. PoW networks are more secure because maintaining the attack is so expensive.
Nathan Young
PoW+PoS hybrid
Eli Price
that would only work with old PoS coins like peercoin
most decent PoS coins has built in anti-manipulation protocols to deal with shit like that
eth's pos model will work like a smart contract, if you screw with the chain, your coins get locked or burnt
dpos is also a good example
Adam Ward
>if you screw with the chain, your coins get locked or burnt did you even read the OP? the whale doesn't care about the coins he loses as he shits up the blockchain
You could, but you'd need to be shorting from a wallstreet position with enough liquidity to hand you that $20 billion without, say, deciding to fuck you by proving you manipulated the market. Then holding out and proving that would mean you just lost 2 billion.
It ultimately comes down to present-day liquidity and what owning 51% would actually mean in $$$ terms once there is enough liquidity for you to do what you're describing.
There's also the tremendously faggy outcome where the blockchain gets rolled back and forked after you 51% it. Maybe they lock the malicious wallets on the new chain? Maybe this fork happens and the above liquidity issues also happen. The coin recovers and you lose your money.
Jordan Nguyen
>built in anti-manipulation protocols No such thing.
Jordan Long
>your coins get locked Reading, motherfucker. Ever tried it? >I may lose the $2 billion of POS, but I end up making, say, $20 billion off the leveraging of just $100 million.
Isaac Gonzalez
So don't a chance on POs ty
Nathan Evans
That's missing the point entirely. The loss of my coins would be offset massively by the gains I'd make by shorting the coins with leverage. Google "1929 Chase CEO." The CEO of the fucking company shorted his own stock for a profit (this was before comprehensive securities regulation). It's inside trading, and it's a massive hole.
Mason Stewart
nigger did you even read my post
the coins will be locked before the whale can do any damage
no coins = no power in a PoS chain
fucking brainlet
Jeremiah Campbell
Woot woot
Daniel Cruz
brainlet, try reading up on ethereum's PoS model and how they will prevent 51% attacks
I strongly advise not buying alts that can e shorted. if there is a decentralised stake mined coin that can not be shorted but only bought or sold that is ideal
But there is absolutely nothing stopping an exchange from offering short futures on any existing coin.
James Williams
you know jack shit about PoS design and trading you'll just be mining isolated bad blocks that will be detected and ignored by validators, and then correct blocks will be mined at the same block height. you will literally achieve nothing.
Grayson Jones
Yes, just ignore the bit about how the stakers collude to sabotage the coin and line their own coffers.
Kevin Martin
Keep going
Camden Clark
its not like you get three strikes, the first instance of any bad block the network sees will destroy a percentage of your deposit, or even all of it.
so effectively you're talking about the result pulling x% of mining support out from a POW coin would be, only with POS the network equalizes immediately, whereas with POW you have to wait for a difficulty adjustment.
Nicholas Lee
>its not like you get three strikes, the first instance of any bad block the network sees will destroy a percentage of your deposit, or even all of it.
Why does that matter? PoS is self-admittedly vulnerable to attack by a majority. By your logic, the chain is completely immune and can snuff out any attempt.
Liam Foster
>attack yeah, an attack that lasts for as long as it takes for that bad block to propagate the network. the worst you could do would be to try and censor transactions, or not add in any at all, but on a network like ethereum you'll never have enough coins to be able to cause any real disruption doing that, because the blocks are so frequent.
Logan White
you're ignoring the actual implementation details.
all stakers not in your colluding network, including the exchanges, will be totally ignoring your bad blocks and claiming staking rewards for themselves by producing good blocks.
your chain might survive in your isolated group, but on everyone elses chain, your stakes are gone and they are pleased as punch.
nobody not in your group will give the slightest fuck about what is going on in your bad chain with bad blocks, because they can trivially verify that it is bad.
