IRS warns cryptotraders to pay their taxes

>Anyone convicted of tax evasion is subject to a prison term of up to five years and a fine of up to $250,000. Anyone convicted of filing a false return is subject to a prison term of up to three years and a fine of up to $250,000.

get rekt

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>proceeds to send the IRS physical copies of my millions of trades with trade bots

Two can play at that game you fucks

>implying they don't own a fucking industrial scanner that can read your millions of trades in seconds

>don't report 2k gains
>pay 250k fine

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They still have to waste the time sifting through millions of physical paper trades. Trading with shitcoin dust makes it even easier to have a lot of trades like this.

I bought btc at 19k and sold for 8k does that mean I'm getting money back

nah but you can offset gains from your losses for 2017 and you can harvest up to 3k to decrease your ordinary income in 2018

here's your easy answer americucks:

>stop trading fucking now
>wait a year
>accumulate more
>cash out
>sip cocktails on beach in bali

Bali is overrated

I fucking confused. Do you pat taxes when you cash out or buy something with crypto or evertime you trade???

every trade.

You'll get jail time if you downright lie about your gains amount in your report.

If you don't report it at all, absolute worst case you'll get audited. If you trade on an exchange which doesn't have your SSN (like binance), you're fine, they can't see anything until you choose to report it. In that case, you would pay an extra 20% of what you owe.

Like, it doesn't take a fucking genius to understand this shit, guys. Are you all like 12?

> IRS FUD intensifies.

Want to why? Because literally nobody is taking it seriously. They are going into panic mode.

only indians pay taxes to irs

Fuck off irs nigger

unironically this.

Fake. Enjoy majorly overpaying.

fucking kek

That and it's just asshole anons trying to freak people out. This shit triggers Veeky Forums like crazy.

This is goberment FUD.

> IF YOU DON'T PAY WE WILL KILL YOU!!!!! Then we will put you in JAIL!!!

Anyone want to start putting bets up on what the number of people that report their gains will be? I say under 2000 people but that's high balling it.

Just like downloading music on Napster and limewire and everyone got sentenced to 25 years in prison and/or 250k fine for burning CD’s. What anons remember this? Still paying that debt off

Wasn't it only 800 last year?

Trade for trade is fucking next year. If you started trading this year, you owe in 2019. Also tax brackets depending on how much you made. IRS wants big fish. You're not proving anything going after a 19 year old basement dweller who spent lunch money on crypto. $3000 can be accounted for in losses too.

more i guess. probably all 20k exposed cuckbase users

I think so yeah. And that was people properly paying on what they cashed out. The coin to coin shit is a whole new layer of bullshit. Most of us can agree that paying when you cash out makes sense but literally nobody can even grasp the intensely fucked up bullshit that is taxing concepts from thin air.

Where were you when the IRS decided to begin taxing MATH?

Its going to be super low. It wont be even close to 10k let alone 5k. 2k calling it. What you might see is most people just reporting what they cashed out and getting into trouble occasionally.

you do understand that coinbase REPORTED to irs 13k of its users?

Good thing there are millions of users

Yep, I also know human nature and humans in general. You might even see a lot of people just panic and not even do taxes at all this year in record numbers out of fear.

One of the reasons the IRS needs to chill with this FUD, terrifying people only works if its in person.

As long as you keep your trades/cashouts under $10k the IRS does not give a shit. Their budget is being cut consistently each year they don't have the resources to go after us normies

I know you're joking but it's "up to" and nobody cares about your 2k anyway

you won't get jail fag you'll get fines and penalties. Unless you're some kind of idiot that can't figure out how to feign ignorance.

Not filing a return is a felony, tho. I hope you're trolling.

Also they may not be able to see anything on binance now but Im certain they will get the records in a couple years.

Unless they somehow get my SSN it doesn't matter. The moment they ask for that shit, I'll just move my money.

The fuck you talking about, I'm replying to the dumbass talking about jail time. Learn to read, faggot.

without ssn, they can't do shit,user?

Basically what this means is that we abolished the 4rth amendment. But its already been dead for awhile now considering the nature of the internet anyway. Will they get records of things in the future? Probably but it wont matter if people don't comply with the laws. Which I am about 99% sure most people right now are completely overwhelmed by the notion of having to do this mess to a point that many are probably starting to feel its not even worth the trouble. You are going to see some people just go into denial about the entire thing. A lot of people will get pretty desperate and even consider jumping ship from their home country entirely.

Not only that but the second you admit you have crypto you will be subjecting yourself to law enforcement the moment the government decides to outlaw crypto. They will knock on your door to get you to give up your keys. Americans WILL BE TORTURED over this in the next 5 years. Mark my fucking words that shit is not out of the question. You will be accused of supporting terrorists or something asinine like that and off to Guantanamo bay you go.

All the while the people who slip through the cracks will amass considerable wealth during / after the next revolution. Not a day goes by where I don't think about this topic at least once and its fucking killing me.

No, they can't. Binance has no clue who you are. If they ask for SSN, get your shit out of there immediately. It's also why there wont be any fiat-crypto on Binance in the US anytime soon.

what about other things they know about you, apart from ssn?

Thats pretty blackpilled, I don't actually think this is realistic though.

seek mental help, diseased NEET.

relax nigga it aint that deep

Well, most of what I said is already happening. The idea that the government will outlaw crypto is entirely realistic at some point. Anyone who admits they have coins will be visited because this kind of thing is very common when something becomes illegal.

What exactly have I said that is not realistic? That someone may one day be captured and tortured if he has a very large sum of crypto?

Its ALL plausible as hell. The first thing that needs to happen to prove me wrong will be dependent on the number of people who actually properly report taxes come April. If it turns out that pretty much everyone followed the rules then I will kindly shut the fuck up.

If it turns out almost nobody does then this rabbit hole will run deep as fuck. This is a red pill at that point and you are just a blue pilled cuck for thinking otherwise.

>Calling me a cuck for disagreeing
Ok fag. I agree this tax season will be interesting but I think you're letting anxiety rule your judgement. There are many established institutions with their hands in crypto as well as high profile individuals. If it were just neets on Veeky Forums I would agree but we are a tiny piece of the crypto pie.

About $100k gains here and I'm not paying taxes on a single cent. Posting this from a public wifi hotspot so I'll never get found out

Well, it's a good thing I haven't gained shit in this market then.........wait

Do you think the Congress won't just have the IRS audit every single person who trades crypto?

They got more money in the omnibus bill that just passed, and Trump signed. 230

But hey, why let a meme go to waste, right? Do you waterheads ever even LOOK at the news?

They are coming for us anons. No crypto lobby. Plenty of cash to grab. Normies KNOW crypto is nothing but drug dealers and child porn distributors. Be ready. Im just hoping they dont get to deep in my ass.

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Why would they audit people who are being compliant, but cheeky? All those bot shitcoin trades are given to them and laid out.

You haven't countered any of the contents of the post. Everything I said is extremely likely and most of it is ALREADY HAPPENING. Also I didn't call you a cuck. Its a good thing you are trying to question what I said. I don't actually want to fucking be right. Please can someone give me arguments to counter my points rather than hand waving and claiming some kind of personal attacks.

Every one of my points hinges on one thing right now. Its all about how many people follow the rules come April. If nobody does, this is going to be insanely rough. Illegalization will be on the table, everyone who followed the rules will get cucked hard. Propaganda to justify going after crypto holders will mirror the drug war. No knock raids and flash banged babies over some ETH is not off the table at that point. Torture for keys on the table. It will be the drug war all over again.

EVERYTHING hinges on how well things pan out on April. And at the moment, I don't have a good feeling about this. I think shits going to go south. I think we will see insanely small numbers of people properly reporting world wide. Not just the USA!

You are not fucking countering my points when you act like you are right now.

I agree user. They fucking coming dude and they aint stopping for shit.

Will we ever get a foreign exchange that will do fiat exchanges without requiring tax info?

what, are we only supposed to pay taxes on trades made before 2018?

We don't know yet, if taxes go smoothly and most people properly report then we might not see shit go down. If almost nobody does then yeah. This is going to fucking suck.

Just stop using fiat.

Ok ok, let me see if I can assuage your fear.

First off notice that many states are passing legislation legitimizing crypto in the states. Like Tennessee

Secondly, like I stated in my first response, I think you're grossly underestimating the power of crypto. Its a cash cow and the countries that adopt it WILL gain power because it is a "pandora box" tier technological leap. The powers that be running the USA will see this.

Finally, Many established financial powers are positioned to profit greatly from crypto, They will regulate the dogshit out of it you can be sure of that. But if you're smart you'll be able to navigate those waters.

Worst case scenario we end up in a situation where its really easy to catch a fine for the misuse of crypto and maybe specific coins are banned i.e. monero etc. Think about it. Crypto is the best way to track drug peddlers and pedophiles and terrorists. There is no privacy coin on the market that actual works, monero is a honeypot and anyone who disagrees is in for an ass whooping. Why outlaw something that makes tracking criminals stupidly easy?

Food for though, I don't want your future to be real, I acknowledge its possibility but I don't think its realistic outside of something drastic happening in the near future which causes crypto to be outlawed GLOBALLY

>Just stop using fiat.
You have to get out eventually. This fake money is fun and all, but I can't use it to buy a vacation home in the Hamptons.

this is proof this board is filled with fifteen year olds. an audit is costly and requires resources the IRS doesn't have. they aren't going to audit everyone who trades crypto. have you been through an audit? i have. there are correspondence audits, where they send you a letter and you answer a few questions and thats it. there are more complex ones that require a lot of time. they don't audit people who make under 38k a year. it's less than 1 percent total. trading crypto, in this case most of you traded at a loss, will not result in an audit. they will not even care. unless you are a whale and you're deliberately avoiding filing, you're going to be fine. the most that will ever happen is something similar to the tax amnesty situation with swiss bank accounts, but even then, they are not going after all of the people in crypto. this is all scare tactics from an organization that has lost funding every year. stop being stupid and just file your taxes. or don't. no one cares about the 200 dollars you made trading on binance.

Start small, if you owe someone money personally ask to pay in crypto. Find a local store in the area where they will take crypto for your groceries. Use it to buy computer games or computer parts.

> First off notice that many states are passing legislation legitimizing crypto in the states. Like Tennessee

This is promising I agree but whenever I look into the details about this more I often see that there is a need to regulate the coins to make the legislation work. Its usually some kind of detail here or there where it displays a lack of understanding of the technology.

The biggest mistake is the idea that the technology is static. That's the first thing. Too many people are assuming that "oh its an immutable ledger until the end of time! But for all we know the next wave after this wave will involve god knows what else on top of what we already know. You may not even be able to posses a coin that isnt using privacy functionality past a certain point.

Its a value virus. You have to think about this in terms of an ever mutating virus. Its a virus that generates wealth and is constantly changing.

> Secondly, like I stated in my first response, I think you're grossly underestimating the power of crypto. Its a cash cow and the countries that adopt it WILL gain power because it is a "pandora box" tier technological leap. The powers that be running the USA will see this.

I completely agree its a pandora's box and its already opened. I don't know what the powers that bee actually see when it comes to the technology. I don't think most people realize what is really going on. They still have to have it explained to them like children.

same poster but on my phone now. I for one think that corporations own this fucking planet and all its governments. They seem to like crypto so Im not worried. if new implementing new tech makes money (which crypto does) you can bet our distopian consumerist hell hole will use it. I highly doubt we are going to se drug war tier craziness, we will however see regulation that benefits big corporations.

but Im also 125iq and a software engineer, there are things I may not understand about this the skew my perspective.

> Finally, Many established financial powers are positioned to profit greatly from crypto, They will regulate the dogshit out of it you can be sure of that. But if you're smart you'll be able to navigate those waters.

The regulation for this is going to a constant battle of attrician as the technology constantly changes and modifies itself like a virus over the years. If you are not thinking of it as a virus then you are not thinking of it correctly. It cannot be regulated.

> Worst case scenario we end up in a situation where its really easy to catch a fine for the misuse of crypto and maybe specific coins are banned i.e. monero etc.

Again, catch a fine for what specifically? If its a brand new coin that does brand new things and curtails current laws through technicalities and is using privacy. It wont be regulated.

"Oh ok so why not just ban coins that are not following the rules?"

Then you end up right back at square one again because now everyone using the new cool coins with the flashy new features have a massive advantage, they generate massive amounts of wealth because its a shot in the arm for free market capitalism and meritocracy and leave anyone else behind.

When I look at crypto I see a mutating virus. That means that ultimately it will be very hard to keep it pinned down long enough to tax it or regulate it.

>14 posts

What about when ya buy some eth and move it to alts within 15 minutes?

my id didnt change so Ive only got 5 posts, not the same user

A lot of corporations will have their own coins honestly. Why bother with other coins when you can have your own. Maybe that will be one way to tax the shit.

Yeah motherfucker 14 and counting. I am stressed out about this shit because I am trying to see the happy unicorns and rainbows version of this shit and cant fucking find it. All I see is.

> The technology will never change
> We can regulate it
> Taxes are totally not going to be a problem guys!

And all I am seeing right now is reality about to come down on a lot of people and its going to be fucking April. And if I am wrong then cool. good.

If I am right then, FUCK!!!!

>muh land of the free
>free to either get raped by the (((IRS))) or some nigger in jail
top kek

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that's how coinbase thanks their users after charging them massive fees...

Why aren't other assets taxed? Like why isn't a car a form of payment for tax?
Where does it end?

Today there's a virtual currency team within the IRS. The agency also hired a cryptocurrency software company called Chainalysis to "trace the movement of money through the bitcoin economy," according to a contract obtained by the Daily Beast.


because cars don't appreciate

Good luck finding my Monero, (((IRS))) faggots.

Cryptocurrencies neither. Kek

Anonymize some of your assets and keep that anonymized stash in crypto forever. If you trade it, do it with an account that can't be traced back to you and use a VPN while you're at it.

Fuck those IRS kikes.

They can go gas themselves.

Imagine a coin that does all of this shit automatically. Nah, nobody would invest tons of money into that! I must be crazy! This will never be a thing!

No I meant as a medium of exchange for taxes.
Like, why don't they take land for the portion of it's value.

(((They))) already have it under control.

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Again, stop assuming this is it until the end of time. Its a virus that has latched on to humanity. That is how you think of this. Its not an immutable ledger until the end of time. Its not going to be THIS forever.

Its a echelon, its a new paradigm, its a Pandora's box. Anyway I need to shut up because this is fucking with my mental state. If you guys are not also scratching your heads wondering whats going to happen next then you either don't understand whats going on or you are in denial.

peace out

The truth stings deep.

It's not fake. You're supposed to pay taxes for every trade, even crypto to crypto. But nobody is going to do that shit because it's not feasible.

What are they even going to do? They keep acting like they have global jurisdiction - they don't. Most exchanges aren't even in the US, and DEX's are just plain gg - just try to sub poena a smart contract kek. And what about games? Localbitcoin? Miners?

Honestly, I don't see why they don't just say "We tax you when you cash out to fiat" - that'll at least be enforceable (for now...). This just makes them look like dumbasses.

>Where were you when the IRS decided to begin taxing MATH?

That's government for you.


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>Anyone who admits they have coins will be visited because this kind of thing is very common when something becomes illegal.

What, including the bankers?

The time to crush it was a few years back - even though the big money are only now getting in, they ARE getting in. They're not going to want to send their buddies to jail.

I think they'll get to that point (just tax an exit to fiat) when they realize nobody is going to follow these draconian requirements.

>but I can't use it to buy a vacation home in the Hamptons.

Yeah, you can. People have literally done this already, and there's already a fucking token to handle land titles.

>It cannot be regulated.


Wait til MakerDAO updates so we can use DGD gold-backed tokens to issue DAI (next month or so) - their collective heads will explode at us faggots issuing gold & silver backed (and stable) "USD" without a central bank. And by the time they even realise - we'll be onto the next thing. This shit is hilarious.

>trace the movement of money through the bitcoin economy they can break XMR? Keep track of the Eth you made in Ponzis, and bought on Localbitcoin originally? Check the records of exchanges in a dozen non-US nations? Cool story bro.

THE outcome to any strict or unreasonable (((regulation)))

>What are they even going to do?

Flail about MADLY while it slowly dawns on everyone that some 14 year old can fork a new coin off monero and add a couple features and basically hold governments by the balls until they change laws around it.

>They're not going to want to send their buddies to jail.

They wont. Watch Ripple for example. They have a lot of really horrible debt accumulated to the IRS after the company dropped in value massively. Most companies would cease to exist after such a financial blunder once the IRS takes a shit on them. Guarantee you all employees and the CEO will be perfectly fine post April 17. MAGICALLY they just walk it off and continue on like nothing even happened.

Corporations don't pay taxes silly. That shit is for people like us!

Anyway for really I gotta pull myself away from this for now... It consumes so much of my time going over all of it. Lets see how things pan out on April. If we see reports that like 2k people actually reported taxes and the IRS is in full panic mode then brace for impact. I don't know the full extent but at that point you might have a chance to point and laugh at the people who paid taxes as they are stripped of all coins while the government attempts to ban it.

This sounds awesome. I am watching!

>Report holdings for last year
>Tell them you had to sell everything to pay the taxes

Stop using logic. This is a pay your taxes thread and spread fest as much as you can.

I know the feeling. Thinking of all that is going on and what's the outlook for the future. One day at a time. You can only prepare as best you could for any situation to happen. We're kinda and really on our own. If all hell breaks loose, everyone won't come together. It'll be a mix of reactions. The hope is that cryptocurrencies can changes the financial game and give back power of wealth to the people while diminishing the authoritarian state. Crypto is like a decentralized mega millions lottery. It keeps building until it crashes and then it goes up again for another drawing. You gotta have the right numbers (coins) at the right time to win. We'll see what regulations come about. I know the people should have a say in it. Open source is the way to go.

Don't overthink it. I've "died" on acid and mushrooms many times and lost it at times. They can go ahead and kill off half the world's population if they wanted to. It's not changing the outcome for anyone. Keep moving forward. A revolution is around the corner.

I did. If this shit takes off like we all hope it will, I want to be able to cash out and disappear no questions asked. I also had losses I was carrying forward so I still paid no taxes.

>nobody cares about your 2k anyway
Pepperoni Farm cares