With all the talk of craft beers lately, do you ever find yourself retreating to a good reliable German beer?

Not often, its mid tier in quality between American macros and american craft, but costs just as much or more than legit great beer

Where the fuck do you live?
There is a limited amount of pretty good Japanese beer, but the price point is so much higher than American or even Euro beer of the same tier

>Where the fuck do you live?
Probably the east coast US. IPAs are insanely popular here and I hate it.

I just want a nice german sour beer, like a berliner weisse. I don't want one of these meme beers with pictures of grim reapers on them and the name HOPSECUTIONER bragging about their 10% abv

There is such an insane variety of beer styles really available in America. I haven't been to the east coast in a while, but I assume its not that far behind the midwest. Berliner Weisse is pretty common even, especially in the summer, sour beer in general has been trending for years now

Are lambics a meme?
Just hade pic related. It was certainly better than most mass produced lagers. But it was still not my thing.
What beers are meme beers?

You chose the wrong lambic.
Also stop saying meme so much, you sound like an idiot.

anything is a meme, you have to be more specific with your question

I tried Mikkeler's Coffee Raspberry sour beer the other day though and it was really interesting

Boon made the best European made sour beer I have ever had, they are great

You should try the Marriage Parfait by Boon.
It's amazing.

You'd be surprised. I used to live on the west coast, and thought the beer was pretty good there! I liked the variety too. My friend from the east coast visited once and complained about how "craft beer is ruining beer in America" because of how hoppy everything is and all there are are IPAs. I thought he was just being a whiny bitch... and now I live in NYC where every bar and ever local brewery has IPAs, double IPAs, strong IPAs, hoppy ales, you name it. It's all one-note, like taking a loaf of sourdough and adding vinegar and pure acetic acid to make it the "TONGUE EXECUTIONER OF SOURNESS".

I'm glad to see the midwest is still standing strong. There are non-IPAs you can find here, to be sure, but they're overwhelmingly outnumbered by really strong one-note hoppy beers.

West Coast makes a huge variety of beers, they're just known for making the best IPA's.

>, they're just known for making the best IPA's.
No, they are known for starting the IPA craze, Midwestern and New England IPA is much better

Kek.

i go to the liquor store every friday and get something i haven't tried before. been trying beers for months.

the expensive, 'hip' beers don't taste better than guinnes or pabst or budweiser. it's just different. it's as likely to be worse than labatt or molson as it is to be equal or better.

it's all just swill.

I'll take a delicious Zombie Dust or any Toppling Goliath MWIPA or a juicy, hazy NEIPA over a bitter west coast IPA any day. Not that West Coast IPA is bad or anything, just that we have formulated much better stuff now, kind of the plight of the early adopter situation going on in the west, so many of their IPA brands were established before modern techniques developed better stuff

>bitter west coast ipa
>the west coast stopped adopting modern brewing techniques in the 90's

There is some great IPA on the west coast, its just a smaller share of the total IPA market than it is in the Midwest and Northeast because a lot of mediocre, older brands are popular. Meanwhile even the older brands in the midwest are typically better. Two Hearted for instance is way better than its contemporary IPAs on the west coast. The NE caught on even more recently and is making some great IPA now. The west coast really isn't great for top beer. They have a high percentage of good beer compared to shitty macros, but the good beer just isn't ass good as it is in the north

can you anons help me out, i really want to like beer but i fucking hate it.

its like this, i like the smell of it, i like how fucking good it looks and the taste is often not too terrible but the bitter aftertaste makes me want to throw up, are there any beers that arent like that?

Brown ales

>Two Hearted for instance is way better than its contemporary IPAs on the west coast

This is what flyovers actually believe.

I've never left Michigan: the post

Let's hear your opinions about other alcoholic beverages, this should be amusing

I'm not a huge fan of Bells otherwise, but Two Hearted is a great old school IPA, about as good as the pre-Citra era single IPAs get

I'm not saying it's bad, but saying it's better than any West Coast IPA is like a West Coaster saying that Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is better than anything made in the Midwest.

Note, I am saying it is better than any traditional West Coast Style IPA, not any IPA currently made on the west coast. I am comparing it to the likes of Stone IPA, Sculpin, Lagunitas IPA etc

It's obviously a matter of taste, but I'd take an AleSmith IPA any day over a Two Hearted.

It absolutely is. Not the same poster

Flyovers are better at beer than coasties

>IPAs taste disgusting
>but people buy it because it masks alcohol best

>There is a limited amount of pretty good Japanese beer, but the price point is so much higher than American or even Euro beer of the same tier
This is entirely true if only because of the import costs associated with them. The bevmo guy does raise a good point though. Younger generations have always been drinking alcohol not because of the taste but because they want to look "cool" and "mature", and IPAs are the current trend with them because they also have the higher abv associated with them. When I was a kid it was just whatever beer we could sneak out of dad's cooler, next generation it was all about jaegerbombs and four loko (before they cut it down), and now this newer one is going for IPAs. Same shit, just with a different drink.

>Younger generations have always been drinking alcohol not because of the taste but because they want to look "cool" and "mature"
Young people drink alcohol because it is fun, not because they want to be mature.

I don't really think college kids these days are buying kegs of IPA for their basement parties, they are still drinking shitty macro beer because it is cheap

You talk big talk, but I bet you never drink wine or mix your scotch because you've internalized the bully in your head that will yell at you for breaking the rules and not being a "real man"

You will now reply with some nonsense about how wine is obsolete and muh precious hand crafted craftsmanship (so precious and rare that millions and millions of bars and liquor stores have many bottles on display but let's not get reality in the way of marketing) or if you can't "handle" muh hair on muh chest you should stick to drinking piper malibu meridian PA-46-500TP rum for babies and little girls

what does any of this rant have to do with my post?

What

>what does any of this rant have to do with my post?
It has to do with your attempted refutation of the other guy's point that young people's drinking habits revolve around trying to live up to some image of "cool" and "mature". I have found that youngsters on Veeky Forums think that drinking DIPA and Islay smoke bombs, and cowering in fear at the sight of any drink that isn't brown and made from grain, is a sign of maturity. Is this not an accurate description of your drinking patterns?

Obviously the image people desire to portray affects their purchasing decisions, thats why wine is still a thing. But to suggest that this is driving America's youth to only buy high ABV double IPA without regard to taste is rather silly.

and I don't have any clue why you are bringing up scotch. Young people don't drink fucking scotch with any regularity, its way too expensive, you can't afford that shit while in school. What do you even mean by youngster? People under 45? Your whole argument is a real mess

>scotch is classy and expensive
>people drink wine to seem fancy
>I totally don't drink DIPA for the image
Thank you for confirming my point

I'm not even talking about my own habits. When I hear of youngsters I am thinking of people younger than me.
Also I like how people who do things you like are not doing it for the image, but people who like things you do not are.
and scotch is inherently expensive. it just costs a lot to make and is not in the budget of the vast majority of college kids
Personally I like double IPAs fine, especially the more aromatic, less bitter west coasty ones, but I drink beer of pretty much any style, a disproportionate portion of my fridge is stouts right now being the end of winter, but I bought a 6 pack of APA, and 2 bombers of a barrel aged Scotch Ale today. As more spring and summer beers start hitting the shelves I am sure a lot more hefewiezen and IPA will enter the picture. Also planning on drinking a nice Gueuze later on tonight. But none of this discussion was previously about what I or even people in my demographic like

>I'm not even talking about my own habits
Except we are
>When I hear of youngsters I am thinking of people younger than me.
That's nice, so, 20 year olds? 21 year olds?
>Also I like how people who do things you like are not doing it for the image, but people who like things you do not are.
I have no idea how you guessed what I like and what I don't like, but I guarantee it's wrong. When you get older you might (if you can learn to drink stuff for the taste) figure out that drinking wine doesn't rule out drinking beer any more than drinking beer rules out drinking wine.
>and scotch is inherently expensive
Not really, it's just cultural baggage from the times when "beer" meant insanely cheap crates of Labatt Blue. The kinds of beer that Veeky Forums autistically rages over aren't really appreciably more costly than your average Constellation or Diageo branded liquor from Scotland.

>That's nice, so, 20 year olds? 21 year olds?
I think we were pretty unambiguously talking of college aged kids
>The kinds of beer that Veeky Forums autistically rages over aren't really appreciably more costly than your average Constellation or Diageo branded liquor from Scotland.
A lot of great beer is considerably cheaper than even low tier scotch, and thats entirely beside the point as we were talking about what the kids drink, not what the average Veeky Forums person in beer threads drinks
Seems like you are trying to take this whole thing to all sorts of entirely unrelated tangents and not even address the topic that you originally started your rant in response to. I originally just commented to point out that your dichotomy between drinking for taste vs drinking for image was silly and that kids are mostly just drinking to get drunk cheaply and that these are certainly not the same people as those who are buying DIPA

Maybe you should just start a new thread for all this random ass other shit you want to rant about

Veeky Forums's age demographic leans young, aka kids. Whether they're actually in college, or a couple of years out of college as in your case, kids are kids. I'm sorry if this has hit a little too close to home but the point was that the wild popularity of super high ABV IBU IPAs is driven by young people (such as you) who haven't been legally able to freely purchase alcohol for a long enough time to develop personal preferences. As a result, they buy on image. The other examples were related to alcohol purchases, which are entirely relevant to the discussion because they further illustrate the same phenomenon (which you seem to be another good example of, with your instant classification of "scotch buyers" as being "classy Indiana Jones types" or "wine buyers" as pretentious middle aged women). You've fully internalized the bully in your head, and you don't even know that you're drinking based on image.

But if it makes you feel better to feed your own self-delusions about being a fully independent self-actualized drinker, go for it I guess. Your loss.

There is a huge difference in the drinking habits of a 19 year old college kid and a 25 year old college grad in America

Dude, what are you even talking about? Are you like 60?
So basically your entire argument is that people who like things that you do not like are too young to have real opinions about what they are tasting and are only doing it for the image?
Surely the reason young people drink so much more good beer than your advanced generation is because they grew up with such good beer so readily available unlike you, not just because everyone younger than you is dumb and cannot formulate opinions. Your generation is no less affected by marketing images than any other generation

Sure. But that doesn't really contradict anything I've said. The 25 year old can legally purchase alcohol, the 19 year old has to do a straw purchase through the kindliness of some upper classman so he takes what he can get. The 25 year old has had a couple of years time to buy alcohol freely - essentially, the time he's been out of school and working. Which, these days, usually doesn't start with graduation either, with so many NEET 20somethings. In any case even in the best case scenario, that isn't very long, certainly not long enough to develop much of a sense of what he likes and what he doesn't like.

So - as I've said now I'm not even sure how many times at this point - he buys on image. Images like beer being for "regular normal guys". Scotch being for classy strong silent gentlesirs. Wine being for the very fanciest occasions only, and preferably not at all.

Is there anything else I can do to clear this up, or would you like to screech more about how I have wrong opinions and should make a new thread?

Getting back on track with a special release my gf bought for me. Insight puts out really great stuff, so I'm pretty stoked to try this soon. Also found out a local store carries Hammerheart releases.
Any mnfags should really try their shit out if you haven't. Tons of smoked, oaked, aged, etc. shit. Just snagged their smoked doppelbock. Going to buy their islay scotch barrel aged extra strong bitter next. Sounds super different so why not.

>
...Anonymous
03/25/17(Sat)21:48:37 No.8730129
#
Veeky Forums's age demographic leans young, aka kids.
You have no way of knowing that.
Shut the fuck up, retard.

>people who like things that you do not like
No. As I said before (perhaps you missed it when you were busy being defensive), I drink a wide variety of things, including beer. Somehow, you have concluded literally the opposite of what I have been saying all this time. Probably because you cannot conceive of the possibility that someone might have different (i.e. more diverse) tastes in things than you.

Yeah it's called Stella u poof

The whole thing is dumb though? You think guys are buying something they don't like for years just because "image"? Most craft brewers barely even advertise.If anything your generation is much worse when it comes to this. They still buy Budweiser and bad overpriced wine

So what you are saying is that these young people are far too young to know what they think tastes good and as a result they primarily buy bad things because of vague image concerns given to them by "Big Craft Beer", but at the same time you drink these bad things and they actually aren't bad, its just that you are drinking them for the right reasons unlike those dumb millennials?

>You think guys are buying something they don't like for years just because "image"

No, they're buying whatever they can get for years because the law says they're too immature to be trusted with ethanol. Has nothing to do with whether they prefer citra over fuggles. Later, they get out of school and have some disposable income, and at that point their preferences are largely based on a fairly immature (I don't mean this as an insult, just a factual state of affairs) understanding of what the different drinks are like and how people might judge them.

No, see I don't know what you mean by "the big craft beer", nobody said anything about that. Interesting fantasy, but that isn't really a thing.

Did you not go to college? There are plenty of opportunities to try varied beverages. Usually not the top shelf stuff but a huge variety of beverage types
. and at that point their preferences are largely based on a fairly immature (I don't mean this as an insult, just a factual state of affairs) understanding of what the different drinks are like and how people might judge them.
No, actually they have a much better understanding than your generation by their mid to late 20s because the beverage industry is in such a better place than it was when you grew up. No matter what type of beverage you are into, good stuff is more common than ever

>Usually not the top shelf

That's kind of the problem though. College is why many people have a dismal opinion of (am I allowed to say this or are you going to jump down my throat?) stuff like gin, wine, tequila, sake, etc. Many beverages do not give a good impression at the cheap college-budget level.

>No, actually they have a much better understanding than your generation by their mid to late 20s because the beverage industry is in such a better place than it was when you grew up

You seem to think the craft beer revolution happened in 2014, you're falling into that same 20something trap that believes that Tumblr invented the idea that women should be permitted to vote and screaming "nigger" in public doesn't make you cool. Your generation didn't discover craft beer. Mine did.

The first wave of craft beer in the 90s was a huge improvement but not anything like it is today. People in the 35-20 range, millenials, just grew up with the stuff always there, it wasn't some novelty like it was for you, and this goes well beyond beer. Across the board, the quality and breadth of alcoholic beverages is better than ever before for millenials. This is why your generations still mostly drinks macro beer and thinks shit like Heineken is fancy and buys mostly diageo tier spirits and mediocre wine. You still haven't been able to adjust to the availability of good shit, and the younger generation's adoption of better stuff must just scare you or something

I don't disagree with most of what you said (other than your absurd beliefs about "my generation" drinking Heineken, maybe you're thinking of my dad's generation, except even that isn't true, my dad drinks more craft beer than I do and he's 80).

I do find it amusing to be hearing that I must be scared of drinking things, when it is your age group that fears branching out beyond "the new craft beer" (which isn't any more new than the end of Jim Crow or the advent of white collar professional women despite your strange assertions to the contrary). This isn't a generation thing, it's an experience thing. The generation you are thinking of is very elderly.

At any rate this feeble attempt at turning this into a generation warfare discussion is just deflection. It's a simple arithmetic problem. The more time you have with disposable income and the legal right to purchase alcohol, the more you can figure out what you like. At the earliest stages, you are buying beer because it has epic dragons and swear words on the bottle. Maybe you feel you're above this, and maybe (although it would seem otherwise) you're right. But the fact remains, it's how life works.

I literally grew up drinking at Founders but I still prefer their rival Two Hearted.

>when it is your age group that fears branching out beyond "the new craft beer"
What are you even basing this on though?
>At any rate this feeble attempt at turning this into a generation warfare discussion is just deflection.
You've spent this entire time talking about how awful young people's habits are
>The more time you have with disposable income and the legal right to purchase alcohol, the more you can figure out what you like
I don't really think this is how it works. A couple years is a long fucking time to buy the same thing that doesn't taste good repeatedly because you think it is cool, at a certain point people just develop habits that they don't like to break, this is why millennials are so much more adventurous when it comes to both drinking and food than previous generations. They are just used to having so much available and haven't gotten into the ruts of your people. So much of the attitude of millenial craft beer drinkers is the desire to try and experience new things, not because they don't know what they are doing and just think DIPA is cool
>you are buying beer because it has epic dragons and swear words on the bottle
I have bought beer with all sorts of labeling schemes, some cool, some simplistic, some classic, some cringy, I just want to try good things regardless of how good they brewer is at marketing labels (since most of these breweries don't even have a full time marketing person, at best they higher a third party to design for them)

Whoa why did I think this was a beer general

Enjoy your nightly cube of nasty @$$ retard

>The less experience you have, the fewer experiential data points you have to draw on
but your desire to generate data is that much stronger

So do you honestly believe the 25-35 year olds currently buying DIPA will no longer like IPA in 10 years, and are only buying it because of "image" without regard to actually not liking it? It can't be because well made DIPA is delicious, right?

>It's just that, after a while, you look for a little variety.
There is an insane variety available with the current leg of the craft beer boom, primarily being consumed by millenials though. This idea that we only drink super hoppy high ABV beer is ridiculous, hell, DIPA only makes up a fraction of the Pale Ale market and for some reason everyone wants to make a mediocre session IPA instead

High ABV beer is inherently more flavorful than low ABV beer, thats the main thing behind the ABV trend you speak of

The DIPA will live independently of the of the IPA movement as a whole. I hate IPAs but have been known to get the DIPA if that is the strongest on the "menu" of choices offered.

The DIPA can end sooner or later, but I would consider it on its own timeline compared to its more mainstream cousin.

>high scores, statistically, is the winning formula.
Oh, making beer that people perceive as good makes people more likely to buy it?

This high ABV stuff doesn't even make up a large chunk of what millenials are buying, so its hard to see why you are so focused on it. The vast majority of it is in the 5.5-9% ABV range. Its not like millenials are drinking 120 minute IPA everyday
>But as a general rule, people your age go for dragons and fear things that seem "cucked" or "feminazi"
Alright dude, you've been on Veeky Forums too much

>and people my age, with some boozing under their belt, have a much larger mental database to draw from, and might drink just about anything.
Surely young people drink a wider variety of beverages than the older generations

Well, it looks like at least one person I was arguing with was a mod, how about that :^)

Banned for wrong opinions, thanks hiromoot

MODS are pathetic beta nu-male cuckolds across this entire site. I bet 90% of them came directly from Reddit or some other echo chamber blog.
They get triggered so easily, it's kind of funny and then throw a shitfit ban tantrum like a little kid.
They obviously never learned to argue and accept other people's opinions and that's why they are such colossal losers irl and ended up as mods on 4chink.
I pity those sad clowns because they will never amount to anything in life.
But hey, at least one of them is a craft beer connoiseur and expert.

Yes. American attempts at German styles are pathetic. Bland hopbombs with thin malt presence. They go back easy, but have no depth of flavor. I'm more interested in seeking out Baltic and central European beers than anything here, and I'm surrounded by new breweries (SF Bay Area).

>Yes. American attempts at German styles are pathetic. Bland hopbombs with thin malt presence
Speak for yourself California

Well yes, I only try what I can get here, i.e. west coast stuff. Does your state/region make a good doppelbock or dunkel? Alt?

While not nearly as common as Pale Ales/IPAs or Porter/Stouts, german styles are still pretty available up here and often quite good. Was just drinking a good dunkelweizen from a new brewery the other day

I lived in München with an older woman for a few months and this, along with Augustiner, was all I drank. Best time of my fucking life.

I used to, but no longer. Local market is flooded with so many different sorts of beers that I almost always find something that makes me happy.

It's what I use to bottle my homebrews.

This round, I'm going to be putting something similar back in - maybe a bit lighter in colour.

My friend - who now works in collaborations and consultations with a handful of breweries in Toronto, and I think just took over as co-head for one - made the only close-to-the-original Altbier and Festbier I've ever had that were made with Canadian-grown/sourced ingredients. At some point, the hops, yeast, and grain strains were German, but they've been naturalised here - it alters the recipe more than I would have thought.

I love the story of how what is now sold in America as Oktoberfest, pretty ubiquitous in fall, is not what is sold at oktoberfest in Munich, but this is because the big Munich brewers decided to make a cheaper lighter beer for the fest a couple decades ago, and they have a cartel so no on else can sell there. So now you cannot even get traditional Oktoberfestbier in Germany legally but its super common in America

Everybody (well not everybody, but you know what I mean) makes a Marzen. The magical beer fairy makes a pretty close match to Paulaner's 2013... not my favourite beer in the world, but that he pulled it off with local ingredients was pretty astonishing - water especially.

That one is quite sour. I suggest you try a more balanced one like Drie Fointeinen Geuze or Boon Oude Geuze. When lambics are good they are REALLY good.

Isn't ayinger still quite traditional? It's not a pale lager like most big brands.

ratebeer.com/beer/ayinger-kirtabier-autumn-beer/2718/

I still remember the one I tried first as the best one but I remember that one was quite light though:

ratebeer.com/beer/hofbrau-munchen-oktoberfestbier/8823/

yeah, Einbecker and Weihenstephaner

A decent, balanced IPA is a thing of joy.

When pulled off correctly it's not just 'lol, mouthfuls of hopps' like that Dogfish Head 90 minute swill.

I blame the frat scene for the whole 'RRRGH! BITTER IS MANLY!' trend.

Heffenwizen pretty good

Franziskaner is my preferred beer, but only 3 places in my shitty town actually carry it.

This beer recipe included red cedar chips and fir tips

This stuff is fantastic, an Italian collaboration with Dogfish.

I'm not sure I agree as far as Japan goes.

I'd second your blame for the frat scene, just like they ruined hot sauce.
>"What? Hot sauce should have flavor? NO ITS ONLY FLAVOR IS PAIN"

Anyway this thread inspired me to go down to my liquor store that stocks a lot of beer.. I spent half an hour scouring e v e r y case, 6-pack, build-your-own, and individual bottles they had, and I'd reckon at least 2/3 of them were IPAs and double IPAs.

I ended up coming away with the ONE sour they had, Ommegang Hennepin, a saison. It had pretty good ratings on BeerAdvocate, and the notes I read about sounded good to me. It didn't taste sour like I expected, more bitter, but after I ate some blackberries, it tasted pretty good.

Still, a 4-pack was $13 which was pretty steep.

Franziskaner and Weinstephaner for Alcoholic beer.
Oettinger for Malt Beer. Just because it isn't as sweet as Karamalz or Vitamalz.

Lol, I don't think frats are buying kegs of 120 min IPA

for me its the liquified mcchicken

best fastfood drink

Where do you live?
IPA is about 30-35% of craft beer sales as of last year nationally