Why aren't you vegan?

>I don't think its the right solution
Can propose something different that is easy to do and has a drastic impact

Describe pls.

>reduce environmental impact by choosing to eat differently
>nuh uh doesn't count because you still have some carbon output!!!!

You really don't see how reducing meat consumption will free up more land for food production, reduce water usage and other benefits? I'm not a vegan but I get the argument

I'm not the guy you're replying to, but sure:

Eat less, but higher quality, meat.

It's not rotten meat.

Its not arbitrary. You're killing things for their taste when you can eat other things and remain perfectly healthy. Im not the OP or a vegan either, but even I realize how fucked up the meat industry is when you think about it. I just can't stop though.

Do vegans have a problem with organic/game meat?

It seems like a lot of the anti meat problems are just the meat industry and not meat itself.

>You really don't see how reducing meat consumption will free up more land for food production

The problem is that this looks nice at first glance but if you dig deeper it's not all that practical. A massive number of animals are raised on land that isn't fit for anything else. My family owns land in west Texas. We lease the land out to ranchers who raise cattle on it. It would be pretty much impossible to convert that land to "farmland". The soil is hard and rocky, you couldn't even plow it. That land is fine to raise cows (or goats) on, but it's useless for farming crops.

Hahaha i like to eat dead animals. Hehheehe

They do taste pretty good. A medium rare steak is the best.

Of course I see it. I even acknowledged that it could be sound. What I'm saying is that I choose to do things that aren't good for the environment to make my life more convenient, productive, and enjoyable. I've made peace with that. My point is that vegans will make this argument and then act as though they are saving the planet, all while they conveniently ignore all the other stuff they are doing that's bad for the environment.

In my experience, the environmental argument is basically an excuse vegans give to justify their position to people who don't agree with their actual reason for becoming vegan in the first place.

you kill things for vegan foods as well. It's just not so obvious. Animals are killed when land is cleared to make farmland. They're killed by pesticides. By being run over by the harvesting machinery. By the toxic runoff from pesticides and fertilizers.

I agree that the factory meat industry is very fucked up. I oppose it morally as well as from a quality perspective. Factory farmed meat is much worse from a flavor perspective too. The thing is that we don't need to avoid ALL meat to avoid those problems, we simply need to avoid the mass-produced factory farmed shit.

You kill plants for their taste as well. The meat industry is only "fucked up" if you let your emotions run away with you.

You can't remain perfectly healthy if you exclude all animal products from your diet.

And meat industry is fucked up because it needs to meet demands of high population.

Word

>gotta love when vegans cherrypick pictures of rotten meat

It's like retarded vegans think vegetables don't also go bad or something.

What would this taste like?

because it's too much of a hassle to arbitrarily check every little thing to make sure no animal products are used in it.

i'd rather just eat whatever the fuck I want, when I want, prepared how I want.

If you see no problem with how cheap meat is produced, you are either ignorant or just a shitty person.

>Aha I got you with my superior atheist logic! You can't avoid harming animals anyway so we might as well go out of our way to harm more than we need to for the sake of taste. Forget about the fact that a lot of agricultural space exists to feed livestock for slaughter. Also, it's not like veganism is about reducing animal suffering/exploitation as much as is practicable

Vegan here. I don't care too much about the moral side of it but even so, from both a moral and a nutritional standpoint, game meat or truly free range meat is the only way to do it.

Nutritionally, remember that for the vast majority of our existence the only meat we ate was from wild animals we often only caught after many hours of physically intensive hunting and once we caught it, we ate pretty much the whole thing and didn't take too long to do it. Today we restrict ourselves to muscle meat from largely sedentary animals who are fed almost entirely on grains and the lengthy process of processing and transporting the meat means that all kinds of bacterial growth is taking place. Yeah, those bacteria are killed, but the toxins they produce stay in the meat.

This is the real reason why eating meat is so bad for you. It's not something inherent to meat itself but to our modern processes of raising and preparing it. Spending 5 hours chasing a deer down before killing it and eating it that night with your buddies = good. Going to the grocer and buying a slab of muscle meat from a cow that was raised and killed in a factory 4 days ago = bad.

>If you see no problem with how cheap meat is produced, you are either ignorant or just a shitty person.

top fucking kek. this is gold.

Edgy bruv

>reducing meat consumption will free up more land for food production
Converting all available land in the US to meat production would feed 800 million people
Converting all available land in the US to hippy vegan production would only feed 500 million people

That's the thing: I'm a person. Animals used to produce meat are not people. There is no fundamental difference between killing an animal and tossing wheat into a threshing machine. They are literally non-persons; what happens to them doesn't matter at all except for how it affects actual people.

It's sad that people nowadays think like that. Growing up with a lot of them, I was taught to treat animals with respect.

You can respect an animal and still realize that it is not a human being, user.

This looks like a good mayo.

Being indoctrinated with a belief does not make that belief rationally justified.

Too bad you didn't grow up on a farm, because then you'd have learned that A) Animals are food, B) Don't name your food, and C) Don't develop a relationship with your food

I'd fuck that beef good.

>overpopulation is a fact, and so are the problems with feeding the said population with animals

Nope. Hunger is a distribution problem, not a production problem.

So is that pic a cyst that got sliced open?

this. most vegans are just big city sissies who can't deal with how the world works
they're so far removed from food production or the cycle of survival that they feel shocked when they actually learn that burgers are made from cows. this is not what their happy children's books said...

time.com/4344556/mount-everest-death-climbing-vegan/

>people who raise and kill animals for a living have to follow a list of rules in order to avoid accidentally developing compassion

Plenty of non vegans have died attempting to climb Everest.
You're a double shit-cunt too seeing as you probably find walking up your basement stairs a feat of endurance.
I'm not a vegan but you're a cunt.

People will also develop compassion for plants and even non-living objects. It's a misfiring of instincts that developed so we would have compassion for other humans.

>woman can't do anything right
>'must be veganism, lol'

Shit, are you really so far removed from the feeling that you don't even understand what it is? Compassion is the feeling that you, as a living being who experiences suffering and wants to avoid it, can have for other living beings who also experience and wish to avoid suffering.

If you see a dog get hit by a car and it's lying there in the road alive but whimpering in terrible pain, you don't think, "Wow, look at that tiny human, I feel so bad for it," you feel bad because you can imagine yourself in that situation and can have sympathy for that dog.

Even other animals have been shown to experience compassion for the suffering of animals outside their own species. If you've somehow managed to kill this emotion in yourself then you're a shit person.

I'm too lazy to put out the effort. I'd have problems at restaurants, I'd have to go out of my way to learn a bunch of new dishes and modify the old ones to be vegetarian... It's just a big deal for something I don't have the time or energy to care about.

>are you really so far removed from the feeling that you don't even understand what it is
It's actually because I understand it that I realize that it leads to faulty thoughts.
>Compassion is the feeling that you, as a living being who experiences suffering and wants to avoid it, can have for other living beings who also experience and wish to avoid suffering.
Which is arbitrary. It's just a bias that you have because you can feel suffering.
>you feel bad because you can imagine yourself in that situation and can have sympathy for that dog
Meanwhile, I understand the emotion and recognize that there's no actual reason to feel bad, except for the dog's owner who will have an emotional reaction.
>Even other animals have been shown to experience compassion for the suffering of animals outside their own species.
Sure, they have the same misfiring of instincts that we do. We all evolved from a common ancestor.
>If you've somehow managed to kill this emotion in yourself then you're a shit person.
Tell that to the cancer patients who receive my platelet donations or to the people with fewer means who have a house because I volunteered my time to help build one for them.

>I'd have to go out of my way to learn a bunch of new dishes and modify the old ones to be vegetarian

I like my current religion and will not convert to vegetarianism. However, trying new recipes and experimenting with substitutes is pretty fun, so I do it in addition to enjoying meat.

Okay I'm running some numbers here and I'm pretty sure...that...doesn't...actually work

You can't convert it all to meat...you'd need to feed the meat. Meat is inherently inefficient. Each increase in the trophic level of a food source is an increase in inefficiency.

Did you not go to school?

Forgot pic

>you'd need to feed the meat

Meat is capable of feeding itself.

eschooltoday.com/ecosystems/ecosystem-trophic-levels.html

Here, I think this should be at your grade level

Sure on a small scale.
You can't factory farm by leaving cows in a big field and letting them eat grass, they will eat it all. This goes for pretty much anything.

But again on considerations of efficiency, an animal is inherently wasting a ton of fucking time and energy. You're growing plants which are getting their energy from the sun, and then you're spending 90% of that energy to keep the animal alive until such time that you want to eat it.
If you grow a plant there and then feed it to humans, humans get 90% of the energy instead in a fraction of the time. And likely, a fraction of the effort, animals are much harder to take care of

Because I like meat. I like all kinds of food.
I even like vegan alternatives to animal products.
For example, I like to put bacon and cheese on my veggie burger.

And normal plants are a huge waste of energy too for that matter: if you want to feed the most people with the most space, you probably want to engineer algae to meet the nutritional needs of humans and just cover the earth in huge tanks of it. Dry it in bars and feed everyone.

If feeding as many people as possible is the only consideration of course