So nietzsche says to just do whatever the fuck you want, and not follow any system of morals or values?

if that's what you want.

Nietzsche says to sit on your ass and do nothing, otherwise you're just jelly and suffer from slave morality.

>So nietzsche says to just do whatever the fuck you want, and not follow any system of morals or values?

No, Nietzsche says that the old order is dead and corrupt and will never be redeemed and that the only creature that will be able to bear the suffering of nihilism will be the Ubermensch.

Basically, any action is both morally justifiable and completely reprehensible, depending on the philosophy that you adopt. Because no philosophy is objectively correct, Nietzsche said that the only true measure of a man is how self-determined he is. To hold oneself to a philosophy only because you felt a societal / intellectual / moral obligation to is to make yourself a slave to it, which is to be Untermensch.

Ubermensch is he that is self-determined, even if at a detriment to himself morally, socially, intellectually, or physically.

So become schizophrenic like him?

>that plump body

Basically perfect

>So nietzsche says to just do whatever the fuck you want, and not follow any system of morals or values?

sure, if you're a fucking untermensch

>So become schizophrenic like him?

I would recommend not delving too deep into it, and try to solve the problem he was talking about, yes.

And how does that make one an untermensch?

Because you're giving into your base values. Nietzsche is about creation and sublimation.

base desires*, I should say

So its more about sublimating your values into society?

So many misconceptions about Nietzsche here, hope y'all haven't actually read his work, if so a great deal of you have misunderstood and should just stick to lighter shit.

I suppose you could put it that way. A good visual is N. said "Napoleon used Europe like a canvas for his art."

1. By listening to Nietzsche because he has prestige, and not on the basis of him being correct. Ubermensch would ignore Nietzsche the man altogether, absorb what information was relevant, and focus on his own interpretation.
2. Ubermensch would still have his own system of morals and values, what is important is that Ubermensch is not held to the moral system that Untermensch are.

>acts superior
>still afraid of posting his own interpretation because he knows it'll get shat on by people much smarter than him

It's really become a meme to come into Nietzsche threads to say nobody understands him.

At this point it's more annoying than reading people who actually don't understand him.

I haven't got any interpretations, I haven't read any Neetchee. Where do I start? With 'Nausea'?

>With 'Nausea'?

If you haven't read any Nietzsche how the fuck can you know if this thread is full of 'misconceptions' or not?

>Where do I start?
Most people would say start with Zarasthura, but I personally think you should start with the greeks

I have a question then. I've read the birth of tragedy and BG&E Im reading the geneology of morals rn and isn't Nietzsche about embracing the dionysiac spirit of man? I mean in BT maybe hes about the dialectic aspect but I seem to find as he moves on in his philosophy he puts so much more emphasis on the dionysiac.

And isn't the dionysiac what one would call "the base values" of man? So wouldn't he be advocating giving in to base values?

>1. By listening to Nietzsche because he has prestige, and not on the basis of him being correct. Ubermensch would ignore Nietzsche the man altogether, absorb what information was relevant, and focus on his own interpretation.
As if people don't choose which philosophers they prefer based on how "right" they are??? Neglecting prestige is retarded, it's how you even begin to find the Great authors: canonization, recommendation, proliferation, etc.
>Ubermensch would ignore Nietzsche the man altogether, absorb what information was relevant, and focus on his own interpretation.
This like most replies ITT is a good excuse for the shallow reader. Ecce Homo.

As I said before, OP should consult: plato.stanford.edu/entries/nietzsche/

If you have any objections to this article, you can make it known. At least these opinions are scholarly, unlike everything ITT.

literally no one would recommend you to start with zarathustra.

>And isn't the dionysiac what one would call "the base values" of man? So wouldn't he be advocating giving in to base values?

Yes and no. When I was using 'base' earlier I was referring to hedonistic pleasure and the like, which isn't quite what N. means. His idea is about chaos, change, immutability, sensation, intuition, etc. But there's still a sense of 'willfulness' in it, and using this desire to bring about greater things.

Simply put, become drunk with beauty and expression, not 'do whatever you want and make money and fuck bitches.' The 'base desires' of Great Men aren't the same as those of the herd.

Nitch is literally 14 yo tier meme philosophy which is why it's so popular here.

>At least these opinions are scholarly, unlike everything ITT.

Shockingly, Veeky Forums is not a scholarly source. Thank Christ you let the people in this thread know that, otherwise I'm sure that each of us would have continued on with this false assumption that Veeky Forums and everything on it is a scholarly source.

>Neglecting prestige is retarded

Am I being baited? Nietzsche was famously critical of prestigious authors. Sure you FIND the great author due to his prestige, but you don't allow it to impact your interpretation of his argument.

>This like most replies ITT is a good excuse for the shallow reader. Ecce Homo.

Not an argument, but the way it is phrased makes me think that you believe I'm advising someone on how to 'be an Ubermensch'. I am not.

and how do we bear the suffering of nihilism and become the ubermen?

asking for a friend

Nietzsche says we should create our own system of morals and values--a system that helps us achieve greatness--rather than adopting "slave" or "master" moralities.

Doing whatever the fuck you want isn't a good system, Nietzsche would say, because then it isn't a system but an absence of system. It doesn't promote human greatness. In this case, I'm implying that doing whatever you want means eating chips and playing xbox all day. But if you were to devote yourself to a passion or skill then that is better.

the absolute madman

You're a living meme.

underrated post

Ubermensche here. Looking down upon Doritos and xbox all day is a slave morality.

No, Nietzsche says that the old system of justification of morals (God) is dead and so the individual must create their own, for themselves and of their own choosing.

This.

Fellow Ubermensche here, what Nietzsche was saying is that doritos and xbox should only be used for half of the day. The other half should be devoted to Veeky Forums shitposting and masturbating.

If you don't understand that, you don't understand Nietzsche and are an untermensch.

I really don't understand why every 20 something guy fetishizes Nietzsche.

After reading him and a few other sources about him, and unless my interpretation is egregiously wrong, I don't understand why. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong here but again, my basic understanding is generally correct, no?

1) "God is dead", then nihilism happens
2) we ought to be the poets of our morality, indeed our lives; nihilism isn't inherently bad but a virtue from which an ubermensch can be engendered
3) fuck utilitarianism suffering and the will to power are good (I'm somewhat okay with this)
4) master morality is superior and we are the arbiters of our moral destiny

But there's nothing in Nietzsche's conclusions that really preclude outright sociopathy -- in fact, Nietzsche's cold and detached writing seems to encourage it. Is the genesis of such a philosophy not "fuck everyone be a noble master"?

I rather like Christian virtues, and I see great value in them. Moreover I like the reformed Abrahamic religions in general, and I find that there is utility in the cohesion formed when their various forms are adopted by a people.

It seems that for a society to adapt Nietzsche's system they would have to be a society full of anarcho capitalist autists

Tell me why I'm wrong; I enjoy a good learnin'

>its an "i cant learn anything from this philosopher if they dont have all of the same first principles and draw all of the exact same conclusions as me" episode

Fucking yourself

>But there's nothing in Nietzsche's conclusions that really preclude outright sociopathy -- in fact, Nietzsche's cold and detached writing seems to encourage it. Is the genesis of such a philosophy not "fuck everyone be a noble master"?
Why is this a problem?

I find altruism a virtue and egoism selfish and autistic, my disagreeing with him has nothing to do with starting from unwavering principles. I'm not a Christian nor religious in any way.

I just don't see Nietzsche's conclusions as particularly valuable -- they don't work anyway. Nietzsche himself died lonely and lived a life of bitterness. One can't escape nihilism, they can only do themselves the favor of not constantly ruminating about it. That is what I see as Nietzsche's lie.

"all superior men who were irresistibly drawn to throw off the yoke of any kind of morality and to frame new laws had, if they were not actually mad, no alternative but to make themselves or pretend to be mad"

3edgy

sociopathy is a mental illness and not in your self interest at all.

sociopaths are sad people.

that was stirner you homo

but if you live by a set of rules, you do have self control

This. I want to like neitzsche I really do. I think hes very brilliant but...I just cant adhere to his 4edgy 5 me fuck everyone else type thing. I just feel its impossible for human beings to "overcome themselves" I think his model would just degenerate into a despotism or some kind of randian dystopia of ego driven individuals. It would just lead to more nihlism and pessimism.

I want Dostoevsky posters to leave

I don't like fatties, short hair, nor Nietzsche, but I want to FUCK that woman.

Why not just go through the three metamorphosis and create a system of morals that suits your reason?

If altruism is a virtue to you after deliberation then keep it, you don't have to be a practitioner of master or slave morality; you can make your own.

The way I read him is that he's just making the common man, that is, the slave, aware of how the ruling class views him and what he doesn't understand.

What you choose to do with that information is up to you.

Nietzsche was a rich dude who grew up a devout christian who's pastor dad died at a young age, he no doubt was bitter about christianity and snapped the opposite direction.

You don't have to apply all of his opinions, just keep in mind the core advice he gives you; endure pain, fuck your happiness if it gets in the way of greatness and decide what is virtuous for yourself.

>cold and detached writing
dude what
it's blatantly passionate
just because he doesn't fall for the pity meme doesn't mean that he's cold

>every 20 something guy fetishizes Nietzsche.
not true
> we ought to be the poets of our morality
no
>master morality is superior
wrong
this is the only correct person in this thread

nietzsche says design your own radically contingent morality and perpetually deconstruct it to unveil how it is keeping you from asserting your agency at every moment. purge every excess from your morality—ego, society, religion—and develop a system of pure action, otherwise every moment of your eternal return will be a tooth-gnashing hell as you watch yourself succumb again and again.

He had sex only once, with a prostitute, and contracted Syphilis. A shy, mousy person with a scat fetish, his sister made him grow out his mustache to take a picture to give him a mad philosopher image. After his last psychotic break, his sister made people pay to see the mad philosopher raving in an apartment.

he says some people should do that

the rest of you should sacrifice your lives so those people can do that

lol why the fuck would we do that?

really, who the fuck reads Nietzsche and actually thinks he's writing to them, except for those living in equally fantastic constructions of compensatory delusion? literally everything in nietzsche's "philosophy" is retarded and can be disregarded offhand. the only reason anybody should read nietzsche is to experience his style, which is such as to make even his most retarded arguments seem palatable as you're reading aphorism #177 about some shitty vedantic trash. anything valuable in his contributions to the politics of individualism is just an irrelevant restatement of Stirner's egoism.

Nietzsche's legacy gets more BTFO every day as he becomes less and less relevant except within a small contingent of buttmad white boys who dream of finishing their grad degree and writing the next great novel without actually having read any fiction produced since 1960.

if you want to read about cyclical degeneracy read spengler. if you want to justify your schizophrenic/radical leftist LARPing read derrida or deleuze. i really can't fucking understand why people continue to read and care about nietzsche after the age of 22.

sadly she goes from solid 7/10 to solid 3/10 without that crop job

t. looked her up when some other guy posted her. I still fap to her soft, yielding body though.

>radical leftist LARPing
neechee appeals more to centrists 2bh

huh...so this is what i would be like if i didnt lose my virginity.

says the guy defending nietzsche hahahaha
if you're having any sex you must've already learned not to share your interests with new acquaintances

God came to me in a dream. Basically told me that we're here to create our own universe and that we're free to do as we please.

that's the conclusion of an edgy 16 year old. i hope you can do better than that, op. go through at least some of his work and *concentrate* while reading and reflect upon what you've read afterwards. then perhaps, but just perhaps, you might understand Nietzsche

I started with The Gay Science

This

I dont know why people insist having to agree with philosophers they read 100%. Take what bits you agree with and try to synthesise it with other ideas.

Beyond Good and Evil

You are probably sick of hearing this in regards to Nietzsche but you have strongly misunderstood him.
>fuck everyone else type thing.
This is not what he advocates.
>I just feel its impossible for human beings to "overcome themselves"
From what you write directly after it's clear you don't understand what Nietzsche means when he talks of self overcoming.
> I think his model would just degenerate into a despotism or some kind of randian dystopia of ego driven individuals.
Again I think this comes from a misunderstanding of the kinds of things that Nietzsche advocated. He admired Beethoven, Shakespeare and Goethe more than people like Napoleon and Alexander.

It sounds like you have read Nietzsche without proper context to his ideas and to his style of writing so that you have read Nietzsche too literally and too simply.

A good example is many people who are new to reading him take what he says about pity and taking it face value think that according to him empathy with other people is bad. What he is really trying to do is to get us to explore why we have this beliefs and where they come from. He does this by trying to shock and excite us.
He wants us to be fully flourishing human beings and the only way to do this is to be self psychologists.

Nausea was Beckett, you cuck.

No. He constantly denounces nihilism. He advocates that you know what is right and wrong, and what is right and wrong for you will not necessarily correlate with what is right and wrong for others. Its basically about self discovery and development

>1) "God is dead", then nihilism happens
Yes and no. God is dead, therefore we must find something else or else there will only be nihilism. So long as we value our own lives, nihilism will not happen. It's when the entire world loses sight of their own value and lives that nihilism will happen.

>we ought to be the poets of our morality, indeed our lives; nihilism isn't inherently bad but a virtue from which an ubermensch can be engendered
Somewhat. Nihilism is the basis of everything and what humanity strives to overcome, hence why we must struggle to overcome the ubermensch through a union of opposites.

>fuck utilitarianism suffering and the will to power are good (I'm somewhat okay with this)
Nietzsche is more against altruism than utilitarianism. Utilitarianism is a system of morality that can never work as it is deeply materalistic and everything becomes math. It's best to avoid everything regarding utilitarianism unless you want to become retarded.

>master morality is superior and we are the arbiters of our moral destiny
Master morality is inherently better than slave morality, but it does not mean that, by itself, it is a superior or the best.

>But there's nothing in Nietzsche's conclusions that really preclude outright sociopathy -- in fact, Nietzsche's cold and detached writing seems to encourage it. Is the genesis of such a philosophy not "fuck everyone be a noble master"?
And people say that I'm wrong when I say that I endlessly hear the same criticism of Nietzsche being good to psychopath as Ayn Rand.

No. Value life and value yourself. That's all that matters.

>I rather like Christian virtues, and I see great value in them.
I don't but you're entitled to your own opinions. Your opinions do not disprove Nietzsche in the slightest.

>It seems that for a society to adapt Nietzsche's system they would have to be a society full of anarcho capitalist autists
Nietzsche did not advocate for capitalism. You're likely thinking more of Ayn Rand.

>dude, I like the guy and all but the way he speaks is so edgy and stuff
>he's like Ayn Rand!
Fucking hell. I'm tired of these people who think that overcoming nihilism is the same as embracing it.
It is possible for people to overcome themselves when they are not bounded by slave morality and value their own life and have empathy that other people do not wish their lives to be taken away. but that it should not be something that binds you from your will to power.

I think the premise is that no moral theory is valid

Bait?

It's a play on the other poster saying Nausea is by Nietzsche.

>lol why the fuck would we do that?
because you'll be enslaved
>really, who the fuck reads Nietzsche and actually thinks he's writing to them, except for those living in equally fantastic constructions of compensatory delusion?
answered your own question there
>Nietzsche's legacy gets more BTFO every day as he becomes less and less relevant
that's the opposite of what is happening, everything he predicted is coming true

>predicted

shiggity diggity doo

Sorry, prophesied

he literally predicted the events of the 20th century
you're not me

why

i replied to one of them and started this one

Revenge.

>Nietzsche's legacy gets more BTFO every day as he becomes less and less relevant
Nietzsche was instrumental for setting the stage for the virtue ethics revival as well as being important for postmodern philosophies. Regardless of your opinions on him it is an outright untruth to say he still isn't relevant.

No, you have to make your own values, and they can't conflict with each other, and you have to impose them on others