>read Faust Part I >5/5, I love it >crack open Part II >endlessly rambling dream/journey sequences with Goethe just showing off how much he knows about Greek mythology, Faust/Mephisto aren't even in the scene literally half the time
Seriously what did he mean by this?
Isaac Turner
I've only read Faust part 1 and that was a complete mess of a play. It really shows that Goethe was cobbling together different ideas and narratives from decades apart and was in over his head trying to give it coherence.
John Bennett
Nigga you crazy if you don't know every Faaust in the world ain't a freak. You could go platinum four times, you still wouldn't make what I make in a week.
Zachary Ramirez
Marlowe's version is effortlessly superior.
Connor Gutierrez
>He thinks Part II isn't the best part
You failed the patrician test.
Jordan Lee
>waahh what about muh Gretchen waifu
Part II is the best part, faglord.
Luke Powell
Favourite part? Mine was with sirens (?) hugging sailors to their breasts maximum comfy
Alexander Roberts
At least Part I had a plot
Nolan Long
Part II has plot you just don't realize it because you're too retarded to parse symbols.
Samuel Fisher
The opposite happened to me. Part 1 was a bit messy, but overall good. I found Part 2 better organized, with more interesting events.
>tfw you will never have fun with the devil in the Walpurgisnacht
John Barnes
>DUDE SIRENS >DUDE HELEN >DUDE ALL THESE OBSCURE MINOR GODS FROM GREECE
Jaxson Perry
Kill yourself, retard.
You either read a bad translation of are legitimately the worst kind of pleb.
Cameron Nelson
>obscure
What did he mean by this?
Adam Brown
Contrarian Reddit opinion.
Almost like saying "Godfather III was the best part."
Samuel Miller
You'll understand when you're older.
Kevin Fisher
You have to go back
Ryan Hughes
>reading Goethe in translation >reading poetry in translation haha, epic troll thread OP :^)
Carter Evans
The whole premise of Faust's wager that he will lose his soul if he wishes a moment to last forever is contradicted by his successful seduction of Gretchen. By the terms of the wager he is damned. Goethe's problem is that he's trying to smash together the romance of the Urfaust with a philosophical narrative and the two don't cohere. Also, don't get me started on the attempt to mimic Shakespeare with the jarring mixture of tragic and comic scenes. Shakespeare can do it because he's natural, Goethe is too narrow for it to work.
It might have been a bad translation, yes, but my biggest problems with Faust 1 are structural.
Josiah Robinson
I've always heard Faust 2 is the better part that makes it the masterpiece it is, I've never read it so I can't give a good opinion of it of course.
Camden Robinson
~tilts Tyrolean hat~
That's what contrarian tryhards would like you to believe, yes
Julian Adams
Go back to where you came from.
Caleb Butler
this to be honest
Joseph Rivera
what in the fuck are you talking about? How does Gretchen contradict "the whole premise of Faust's wager?"
And by all means, please get started on how mixing the tragic with comic is mimicking Shakespeare and not a basic literary device that anyone could think of.
Gabriel Morgan
>How does Gretchen contradict "the whole premise of Faust's wager?" Because by the terms of the contract it should damn him and end the drama. There's a basic contradiction between Faust the striving intellectual and Faust the possessing lover. >not a basic literary device that anyone could think of It's a rejection of classical French theatre inspired by Shakespeare. This is basic literary history user.
Hudson Garcia
>Because by the terms of the contract it should damn him and end the drama. There's a basic contradiction between Faust the striving intellectual and Faust the possessing lover.
Please quote Faust saying that he wishes to be with Gretchen forever. His relationship with her is completely narcissistic. Even calling him a lover at that point is a stretch. You couldn't misread this harder if you tried.
>It's a rejection of classical French theatre inspired by Shakespeare. This is basic literary history user.
Ok, so you're just memeing or are too stupid to follow a discussion. French classical theater was neoclassical, meaning a return to classical, meaning there was an interval that was perceived as nonclassical. The idea that you can only reject classical forms by mimicking Shakespeare is anachronistic and utterly retarded.
Hudson Russell
>classical French theatre inspired by Shakespeare
Aiden Robinson
I feel you, senpai. Like wtf was up with all the Agememnon crap? Faust doesn't even show up until the second act.
Disappointing on the whole but the scene with the salvation of Faust's soul is pretty bangin'.
Jeremiah Garcia
>reading comprehension of an invertebrate.
Brody Diaz
>Please quote Faust saying that he wishes to be with Gretchen forever. It's implicit in the narrative, i.e. him wishing to possess her obsessively and then spending bliss-filled nights together. I don't have access to my copy atm but will come back to it. >His relationship with her is completely narcissistic. Even calling him a lover at that point is a stretch. You couldn't misread this harder if you tried. Narcissism is irrelevant to whether one wishes to stay in a moment forever. The problem is that in part 1 Faust *obtains* what he is striving for in Gretchen and spends the end of the drama trying to get back what he *already* had. The romance and the theme of intellectual action are at odds with each other.
As for Shakespeare, he was the primary inspiration for Goethe rejecting French theatre. That's just a fact. If you can't see the overwhelming influence of Shakespeare's histories in Faust I don't know what to tell you?
Samuel Sanders
>it's implicit in the narrative
Ah, uh-huh, yes, I see... >backs away slowly
>The problem is that in part 1 Faust *obtains* what he is striving for in Gretchen and spends the end of the drama trying to get back what he *already* had.
Lol, no he doesn't. He ends his life in wetland reclamation projects and trying to build a new society. He doesn't even fucking remember Gretchen. Any other shit you just want to blatantly make up?
>Muh memeing about Shakespeare and lit hist posturing is JUST a fact, I don't know what to tell you