Vegan General

Tell me about how you feel toward meat eaters, user

This tbqh
Black bean, mushroom, vegetarian burgers like haloumi are all avtually really good.

Is that meant to be ironic?

I've heard that they taste really good, but before they're cooked they smell like cat food and that made some people not want to prepare them again.

Most people who don't eat meat do it for moral reasons, not because they don't like the taste of meat. At least understand the reason if you're going to be against it.

Hi, I'm vegan, but I crave the meat, so I eat lots of stupid shit that's designed to look and taste like meat, but it's soooooooo unsatisfying, so I gotta sneak out at night and go buy McD's but I'm still really vegan just don't tell my girlfriend or her kids or her other boyfriend who gets to creampie her unlike me.

updooted for trooth

>I never had it, but let me tell you how it tastes

The Beyond Burger doesn't taste like beef, but it absolutely does taste like meat. People who like potted meat or SPAM will like it.

>moral reasons

Can someone make some suggestions for vegetarian dishes that are attractive and look fancy? Gf is vegetarian and wanna spoil her this weekend. Problem is, im lost without the ability to use any meat in a meal. I consider myself a decent cook but with veggie entrees im lost

Vegetarian or vegan?
If you can use dairy and stuff you can go pretty far.

Quorn is a tofu product that's near impossible to tell apart from ground beef in flavor and texture, so you could use that to make a lasagna, and it'd be as good as the real thing.
Or you could use it to make tacos, everyone loves tacos.
Another option is some kind of bolognese pasta sauce, then serve that with fresh pasta (for best results, stir in a dash of oil or piece of butter into the pasta after draining it).

Quiche. Also lasagna, or basically any pasta dish.

>we're proud to kill our children by feeding them a diet of iceberg lettuce and sunflower seeds
you should all be ashamed of yourselves

this is the lowest quality bait I've ever seen

Vegans hate iceberg lettuce and feel superior to anyone who eats it though, it's all about the superfood meme greens

fox8.com/2016/10/09/extreme-vegan-mother-arrested-accused-of-feeding-baby-only-fruit-and-nuts/

foxnews.com/health/2016/07/11/parents-lose-custody-malnourished-toddler-fed-vegan-diet.html

nbcnews.com/id/18574603/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/vegan-couple-sentenced-life-over-babys-death/

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371172/French-vegan-couple-face-jail-child-neglect-baby-died-vitamin-deficiency.html

sfgate.com/mommyfiles/article/vegan-baby-hospitalized-Italy-diet-malnourished-8351890.php

>"They say Hawk wanted to live on sunlight and water."

uhh

Veganism in the good sense should probably resemble what poor people ate historically: staple things like beans, corn, rice, potatoes, bread, etc.

I think people like that are more the result of Dr Oz, Deepak Chopra, Tumblr and Instagram 'gurus' and similar stupid shit. Same sort of people that think giving up gluten or putting avocado on toast is a spiritual statement, that using maple syrup instead of sugar makes something healthy, or whatever.

And really, if we're going to blame anything for the starving of infants, we should blame feminists for pushing the idea of baby formula over breast feeding.

>>mfw vegans always try to replicate meat even though they've sworn against it
this...

it's probably desperate men trying to do this that are being forced into a vegan diet by their wife/gf, who also conveniently choke down BBC every night.

I love meat, I just won't eat it. I usually use seitan to bridge that gap. Don't you have anything that you'd probably enjoy doing, but that you don't do for other reasons?

e.g., sticking your dick in crazy

>we should blame feminists for pushing the idea of baby formula over breast feeding

So many babies have sickened and died because women who couldn't breastfeed were told to do it anyway instead of just giving their baby an imperfect but plentiful food.

And now babies are dying because they are feeding them soy milk instead of breast milk lmao

Being a vegan as an adult is a choice, but forcing a child to be vegan is effectively child abuse.

Regularly neglecting your kids nutritional needs is abuse. Hooking them on unhealthful foods is abuse. But you're just here for the fast food threads. :(

Suck my meat-slop you hippie ass wipes.

My brother buys those, shit's delicious.

if meat is so bad for you or so unethical, then why are vegans so desperate for meat analogues?

This, but I want to try some other substitutes. Most are unavailable in flyoverland

because they are the polar opposite
>not bad for you
>not unethical

I like them, and they are delicious. I'm not vegetarian or vegan. I just try not to eat so much meat, and the Field roast stuff is nearly as satisfying so it's a nice alternative.

but you're still trying to copy meat, why can't you be satisfied with a world full of veggies, fruits, and legumes? why must you make these bastard concoctions to mimic the thing you claim to hate?

People don't hate the taste or texture you fucking moron. They hate the killing and high sat fat, so they make kill free low sat fat versions.

Now stop it with the "I dont understand people doing things I dont like" bullshit. Its called free will you fucking moron.

no it's called bullshit, if you're against meat then be against meat, it's not about not understanding, it's about y'all bein two faced

I told you.. people aren't against the taste and texture. So they are making something with a similar taste and texture - that they LIKE. It doesn't matter if you like it or not.

They aren't anti-meat. They are anti sat fat and anti murder. You are just being intentionally obtuse, and I gotta point out here - it makes you look fucking retarded. You don't have a point to stand on.

There is no reason that people should have to accept killed meat, or not eating meat at all. There are other options. You may have a psychological condition called splitting that makes it difficult for you to understand any options other than the most extreme. You may want to get it looked into, and I would advise you to question your own thought processes from time to time with this advice in mind. Do you often think of things in black and white terms? If so, I would encourage you to look at the other options and evidence supporting those options. You may find that you will make it farther in life and be more successful if your options aren't always limited to the most extremes. Many times the best path forward is a middle ground solution that borrows winning elements of other more drastic, but polar opposite solutions.

well I guess if your against meat then your against meat but mostly is people against pain and death. I think I belive in reincarnation though so im not necessarily against death that much unless it happens to be final in which case I might be. I however don't think most beings like pain some might but for others I would guess its best to limit it. Im not really sure some day I think maybe I would be ok with having my throat slit other days im not so sure.

>being too big a pussy for real meat so you gotta make fake meat

Being a pussy has nothing to do with it. Being healthy and environmentally conscious and compassionate to the other animals on the planet is the most manly thing there is.

Being a carnist is not manly in and of itself. In fact, these days, in the face of the evidence presented, its starting to look pretty irresponsible and stupid. Fine in moderation, but stupid when people talk shit about vegans as if moderation and salad are words their christian fundamentalist parents never taught them.

My grandparents smoke meat on their Big Green Egg and eat their steaks rare, but still love to have quinoa burgers in the mix pretty regularly.

>it makes you look fucking retarded

so does misusing the term "murder".

This is vegan logic, and it's awfully black and white to apply to a nuanced world. Say for health reasons you choose a diet without much meat in it. Doing so makes you feel a little better about your position in the world because you're doing much less to support an ugly industry. But you're not a fucking monk so you still enjoy a burger every now and then. How is that being two-faced? If you don't choose to do no harm choosing to to less makes perfect sense.

I keep vegan for a third of the year b/c muh culture. As a result, I'm pretty familiar with tasty, traditionally vegan food.
Sadly, I've yet to find a single meat analogue that tastes good at all. I avoid them wholesale and just eat traditional food.

These taste pretty good and I eat them outside of fast days, but as they're not vegan, they're not suitable for the dormition or lent or anything.

Greek?

Mixed Italian Byzcath/Leb Maronite family, but I'm from Italy, so close enough.

>murder

Not understanding the informal usage of commonly used terms makes you seem like you are on the autism spectrum.

Just thought you should know. Maybe get evaluated?

the common usage of the term "murder" refers to the unlawful, deliberate, killing of another human being.

the common term referring to killing an animal prior to consuming it is "slaughter".

choosing the term "murder" in order to cast a negative connotation on killing animals for food makes you lose credibility because you're choosing to use propaganda-style loaded words rather than communicating like a rational human being.

>choosing the term "murder" in order to cast a negative connotation on killing animals for food

"stop making me feel guilty by making me think about meat as a living animal that was killed by a human being so that I could just buy frozen tendies in a plastic bag"

This is how you sound. Please find a safe space if you are this easily triggered.

Didn't realize there were many Orthodox in Italy, but now that I think about it that makes sense. I could eat like a vegan indefinitely, but aren't the Orthodox fasts stricter than that? Like vegan and no oil?! I'd be flipping my shit in short order.

Back to pol please

I don't feel guilty about eating meat, user.
I hunt. I fish. I raise chickens for eggs and for meat. It doesn't bother me one bit to kill an animal, clean it, and cook it. Though I must admit it does bother me when I hear about so-called "hunters" that kill animals merely for "fun" or a trophy. It's amazingly wasteful.

>>This is how you sound
I'm not the one deliberately mis-using words to generate an emotional reaction. If you have a valid point then let it stand on logical grounds. The moment you have to appeal to emotion you have lost all credibility.

>The moment you have to appeal to emotion you have lost all credibility.
Not the user you're replying to, but while appeal to emotion is a shit argument it's also a very large part of why people choose to eat what they do. Very few people are rational when it comes to what they eat.

>it's also a very large part of why people choose to eat what they do

That's fine. I totally get it if a particular person makes decisions for him/herself based on their own emotional reactions.

The problem is that people are different, and other people don't have the same emotional reactions as you do. Therefore it's a poor basis for an argument. It also reflects poorly on the person making that argument because it implies there aren't any logical arguments to be made.

We number roughly 30.000 Italians and the numbers are dwindling for various reasons. If you include the Byzcath Ottoman refugees (who entered Italy in the last century or two to escape Islamism), it goes up to about 70.000. The Albanian Byzcaths in Italy are more in line with traditional Byzcath stuff while us Italian ones are kinda halfway between them and Latin rite, using the Latin calendar rather than orthodox.

>no oil
Depends on the fast and the person.
Dormition is coming up, so I'll use that as the example: all vegan, no oil and no wine is supposed to be the rule. However, most don't follow that.
Nearly everyone will do vegetarian and most will do vegan. Many will eschew wine and only a handful forgo oil.
On the feast of the transfiguration, which happens halfway through the dormition fast, the rules relax and you can eat fish, wine and oil. I'm not religious at all myself and I only follow the tradition because I'm a sucker for tradition and bringing family together.

>Therefore it's a poor basis for an argument.
Not in this case, because part of the argument hinges on the amount of empathy one chooses to extend to animals that have traditionally been food. This really wasn't an option in a Northern pre-industrial society, where abstaining from animal products was a good way to starve to death during the winter. But in an industrial society it becomes an option, and that option, meaning that you have to make a choice about the limits of your empathy. There's no clear cut rational answer - this is the kind of shit philosophers could go around on for a long time and still come up with nothing. So for most people their decisions in this regard are going to be at least partially driven by emotion.

>meaning that you have to make a choice about the limits of your empathy.

Sure. But again, that's unique to each person. It doesn't work as an argument because each person has a different stance on it. Like you said, each person has to make a choice based on their own empathy--not another person's empathy.

>I'm not religious at all myself and I only follow the tradition because I'm a sucker for tradition and bringing family together.
I have a bunch of Greek friends who are in the same boat. I even have friends from Muslim families who aren't religious at all, but are fasting right now for Ramadan because of family and tradition. That stuff is important. I'm a fallen Catholic myself, and though I don't believe any of it there's still no way I'd be anywhere but with my family at Christmas and Easter because I'm not giving up on the traditions associated with those holidays. Totally get it. Still don't think I could handle the no oil thing.

We (Italy) have the largest percentage of partial vegetarians in the western world and the second largest willfully vegan population on earth (next to Israel). I mention this because I wanna know if there are other stories of Italian vegan parents you know of harming kids with their shitty diets. I only know of that one and one other.
We've a tendency towards sensationalist reactions, so after that baby went to hospital last year, a bill was proposed stricter sentencing for parents whose veganism affects their children adversely.

It's not like anyone actually follows the no oil thing. Most my family does is one day, St John the Baptist's day. Worst family get together ever.

>each person has to make a choice based on their own empathy--not another person's empathy.
Ideally that would be the case. But in practice most folks choose not to think about it at all. They just go along with whatever the default choices others around them seem to be making. That's what inspires some vegans to proselytize - they feel compelled to point out that by simply not thinking about the limits of empathy people are making a choice, and it might not be in line with the values they'd like to have. The incorrect assumption there is that anyone still eating animal products hasn't bothered to give the matter some thought. But many people haven't, because our industrialized system has done a very good job of minimizing the link between animals and animal products, making it very easy to eat them mindlessly. As a hunter and farmer you are obviously not in that camp.
>Worst family get together ever.
I bet it is.

>our industrialized system has done a very good job of minimizing the link between animals and animal products

This is an important point. I can remember going to the Safeway when I was a kid and there were real butchers in blood stained aprons and windows you could see the butcher floor with full carcasses hanging. Now the few groceries with real butchers have their processing rooms hidden from view. Of course most groceries now just have stockers unloading trucks and putting packages out on the floor.

My wife's son loves em!

^this

>beyond meat
the holier than thou attitude of these mentally ill fuckheads is ridiculous

>mentally ill fuckheads
Ok keep crying about vegans being too condescending.

kek

>vegan
>good

pick one

Black bean burgers are awesome and stupidly easy to make. My coworker was like, "I bought a can of black beans a while back that I'm never going to use...you want them?" Hell yeah I do.

If only he knew how shitty canned beans are nutritionally compared to beans you cook yourself.

>so they make kill free low sat fat versions
>kill free

Literally no such thing.

Depriving yourself of something that is just getting larger and larger (the meat industry) when you have no impact on it at all. It just seems like passive-agressive activism to me.

To put this next to real meat is insulting. Not because it makes us feel guilty, it's because it's more passive-agressive, fairy punch bullshit.

That's not true at all. Did you hear that from a scientist or from your dumbass friend?

I like them a lot but they smell really weird - a bit like cat food.

I've been watching UV's yt videos and yeah I've been eating far less meat. I love in SF and have access to both western vegan and Chinese Buddhist cuisine which is nice but I still get a weird feeling after eating TVP for the first ten minutes. It's like a stone in the gut.

Anyways I'm going to state fermenting again but want to focus of African ferments of oil seeds for seasoning (dawadawa, kurundu, ogiri, etc.. ) muslin and miso wrapped tofu cheese, cashew cheese inoculated with French cheese strains, etc...

Also gonna try an aquafaba/mushroom/miso/TVP Patty that's more conducive for my stomach.

>N-no, stop invading my safe space :(

Kek.

>sweaty
Ultra kek

more

What the fuck are you talking about?

Animals inevitably die in the production of grain and vegetables though, pests are killed, and it's generally very common for varmints to get chopped up by combine harvesters.

But is it ok because it's pest control, accidents and they aren't as cute as other animals?

Largest percentage but still a reasonably low population

Almost invariably some retard comes along acting like animals raised for meat don't require a huge amount of land to raise the feed, increasing the number of varmints chopped up by about 5000%

Not a vegan, not even vegetarian. Just not delusionally ignorant about agriculture like you

Does this have cheese in it? Looks like mashed veggies, cheese fillings look delicious.

>stop liking what I don't like

IIRC, it was 32% of the population are "semi-vegetarian." This doesn't include completely vegetarian. An additional 10% are either purely vegetarian or vegan. When taken out of the other statistics, vegans themselves are estimated at 3%.
I remember the numbers because I was surprised that 42% of us go meat free at least part of the time even though we can afford otherwise. Didn't expect such a high number.

>when you have no impact on it at all.

It's a fact that vegetarians in the US account for hundreds of thousands fewer heads of cattle being slaughtered every year.

This accounts for hundreds of thousands of acres of reduced agricultural land commited to raising grain and other feed as well as less biological waste that is generated that the eco systems have to absorb in one way or another.

There is impact. That's a fact whether you like it or not. Call it passive aggressive or whatever you want (that doesn't even make sense)... no matter what you call it is having impact.

This line of thinking goes back to the splitting argument earlier in the thread. People like you think there is either industry or there is no industry with no shades inbetween. you couldn't be more wrong.

So it's ok if it'a fewer animals and they're less of an impact on the echo system?

That's a pretty tiny impact if you compare it to all those millions.

Not the user you're responding to, but of course it makes sense that if you're not choosing to do no harm it's still ethical to choose to do less harm.