Vegan?

Similar situation for me. I started craving red meat a couple weeks ago. Haven't had meat yet but everything I've eaten since then hasn't felt satiating. I'll be full from what I'm eating, but not satisfied. I don't know if denying myself something that my body might need really helps animals if I'm not operating as well as I could be. I'm also kind of tired of self-righteous vegetarians lording over others. I read some vegetarians are happy that a tick is spreading a disease which has a side effect of making people allergic to meat. I think they just hate anyone who eats meat more than they care about animals. They use it as an excuse to look down on someone else and feel better about themselves, not because they care about the animals.

If you're going to eat meat, try to get it from better sources that treat animals better. And make sure you never waste anything, always eat your leftovers. Support the development of lab-grown meat, I think that will help animals more in the future than the current self-righteous vegetarians claim to.

>I don't feel better. I don't eat better.
I can guarantee that your arterial thickness, blood pressure, cholesterol levels, C-reactive Protein levels (inflammation marker), fiber intake, stomach microbiome, etc are all vastly better than non-vegan diets unless you are still using a lot of veggie oil to cook with and eating lots of processed vegan food like oreos/vegenaise. If you don't already you should be taking a vitamin D & B12 supplement, vegan or not.
nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/12/dr-gregers-2011-optimum-nutrition-recommendations/
>It's not cheaper.
You're doing it wrong in that case, maybe buying lots of processed vegan meat/dairy substitutes like MorningStar or Daiya. There is no way that per oz fresh whole produce like onions/carrots/celery/cabbage is as or more expensive than good grade cuts of meat, and that's without considering flash frozen vegetables and dry beans/rice or potatoes/whole grain pasta.
>Animals still suffer.
You are part of the solution in reducing demand. At least when you think about slaughterhouses and their ecological and ethical issues you can sleep knowing blood isn't on your hands
>Might aswell eat a steak now and then.
I'd rather splurge on a tin of saffron instead.

>Might aswell eat a steak now and then.
Well, yeah, but that doesn't change that you're obviously a retard or a troll.

>I don't feel better. I don't eat better. It's not cheaper.
Slit your wrists you liar.

>nutritionfacts.org
I'm honestly surprised dr. Geger still has a license with all the lies and half truths he spouts.

Can you list 3 actual lies? So far everything he said was based on science, though that science is sometimes biased or faulty. He's right about most things.

Some vegetables might be cheaper per ounce but not per calorie.

Pretty sure rice and potatoes beat everything in terms of price. You can get a 10kg sack for a couple of bucks.

Vegetables aren't cheap. Unless you buy them from Alzadr's food market. To make a pasta taste something you need to buy a shit load of things. I miss carbonara

>one egg is equivalent to 25000 cigarettes
It's the yolk that's bad, the people who conducted the study even say so. and even then that's eating 1 egg a day for nearly everyday of your life. Not really the same.
>a vegan diet is good for alzheimers
He cites a study that has two sample sizes, one sample size has 262 people and shows a difference between alzheimers occurrence in vegans and non vegans. But ignored the second sample that contains over 2000 people and showed no difference.
He also bases his claim on another study that tests saffron extract as a means to treat Alzheimer's. Not a vegan diet, but a plant extract. This is a pretty blatant lie.
He also ignores studies that show foods like fish actually lower the rate of amnesia, and that fish is a better source of omega 3 than any of the plant based alternatives (olive oil is an exception but its severely processed).
>75% of cancer can be prevented on a plant based diet.
A plant based diet is not necessarily a vegan one. The Mediterranean diet contains meat, but is still plant based as meat consumption is incredibly low (5-10%) in that diet and shows similar benefits that veganism does.
But anyways the study he sources that claim on only states that a diet low in fat and high in plants possibly reduces cancer by 20-42% not 75.

I'm not against veganism, i just feel some vegans either over exaggerate the benefits, outright lie about meat , ignore contrary evidence (lacto-ovo vegetarians are healthier than vegans and live on average ten years longer than most humans, despite still eating animal products) and lastly they only look at it from a western perspective. Ignoring the fact that Asian causes of heart disease are mainly from smoking, while western occurrences are mainly from diet. The Asian diet contains meat, but they eat much less meat than we do.

>Can you list 3 actual lies? So far everything he said was based on science

Something being a lie and something being """""based""""" on science are not mutually exclusive.

You could claim, based on some faulty observations and biased experiments that gravity is actually the force of the surrounding stars pushing us towards the planet, and you could still count it as a form of "science", because there was experimentation,observation and testing. Sure it could be easily debunked, but even faulty science counts as science.

>>one egg is equivalent to 25000 cigarettes
Wat I'm sure nobody ever said that, you must have misread that one.
% of cancer can be prevented on a plant based diet.
Plant-based is often used as a synonym for "vegan" without the whole ideology. Like how basically every documentary calls it a plant-based diet instead of a vegan one.

Don't care enough about the middle stuff, I'd need to look at that and I'm not a fanboy. I do remember something about him saying that flax seeds are the best source of omega-3s. Just saying you exaggerated with that insult.

Now that's a retarded analogy.

...

Flax seed only contains ALA and not EPA or DHA, and your body has to convert ALA to dha and epa. Which is a 5% yield. Pretty fucking sad.

You're right its consuming 1 egg a day for 48 years is the equivalent of smoking 25000 cigarettes or 15 years worth of smoking. He leaves out the fact that the median age was 52.5 with the youngest group being 42.9 years of age. Seems like eggs aren't that unhealthy when you have that information.

>Which is a 5% yield. Pretty fucking sad.

It's not consumed at a very high rate. Blood concentrations of EPA/DHA are fine in Vegans.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20861171

PS. link not found on a vegan site, was from a black bodybuilder discussing Omega 3 sources and the silliness of the early human fish source hypothesis (he assumes it's from consuming brains and vegetable sources).

naturallyintense.net/blog/diet/nutrition/fish-is-not-necessarily-the-best-source-of-long-chain-omega-3-fatty-acids/

>You're doing your part to not fuck the environment up further.
>No individual can really change anything
So which one is it?

>i dont like the way he phrases certain things so he's obviously lying

Lmao

i hunt for my food when i can.

reminder that if you are against hunting but have no problem buying meat at the supermarket, you are a hypocrite. at least i let my meat roam free before it dies instantaneously

Hunting is a spectrum, trophy hunting is also hunting and there's also pure blood sport.

your faggotry is a spectrum

I have a feeling that user is not a scumbag trophy hunter, but like me, hunts for meat only.

You're doing exactly as much as can be expected from a single person out of 7 billion.

It's not much, but it's not nothing either.

Don't give up. If you have to eat meat now and then, just try to make sure it's not factory farmed.

Eating a steak now and then is still better than eating a pound of meat every single day.

I can get a pound of cheap cheddar cheese for about the same price as 5 pounds of potatoes, and they both have around the same amount of calories. Rice is cheaper, but high in carbs with little protein. You shouldn't be replacing a protein source with carbs though. You still need protein, especially if you're active, and some studies show that vegans/vegetarians have more fat and less muscle than similar sized meat eaters.

>You're doing your part to not fuck the environment up further

By going vegan?

Unless you do a cost analysis of fuel+energy consumption going into what you eat (and transporting it, and keeping it edible, and preparing it) you most certainly do not know whether your diet is actually 'beneficial' to the environment.

You didn't dig deep enough...

>Nutritional density, high water content, raw living foods giving you energy, detoxification of your body..... The benifits go on forever.

What you failed to address is the deeper and most sinister abuse of human trust ever witnessed in history.

Those pesticides that the USA sprays on conventionally grown crops are made up with 50% of the ingredients used to make agent orange. ***80%*** of food grown in the USA comes from factory farms that are conventional farmers.

The environmental pollution is going to be on par with China from the conventional pesticide runoff from farming alone.

The side effects from agent orange are real and utterly horrifying. By purchasing the conventionally grown crops you are killing yourself and your fellow humans.

BTW I have been on a strict organic vegan diet for six years. I have lost friends sooner than I would have but they won't survive the fluoride and pesticides anyway so consider your choices.

It really is life or death.

...

Watch these movies then tell me just how fucking sweet that salty meat tastes sliding down your throat.

Agenda 21 is implemented differently depending on country. In the USA the Zionists use fluoride, glyphosate, and prescription drugs.

The more people become vegan the more big corporations and the meat and livestock business loses customers. The only way to do that is be vegan and encourage others to be vegan. That begins small, with your choice to be that way. You may not see the difference in your lifetime, but every person is important.

It's straight capitalism.

If everyone went vegan overnight. Billions of animals would die.

...

>If you're going to eat meat, try to get it from better sources that treat animals better. And make sure you never waste anything, always eat your leftovers.

Kinda this is my philosophy. Seek out the higher quality (not just more expensive) sources, places where future food is treated humanely and ecological impacts are kept low. Decrease the amount of meat you eat (well, the higher price will 'help' do that) and enjoy it for it's qualities, not just for being something brown covered in gravy.

If only a few billion die that is much lower than the current number per year
>150,000,000,000 animals killed each year for food

animalcharityevaluators.org/advocacy-interventions/prioritizing-causes/wild-animal-suffering/

>The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive; others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear; others are being slowly devoured from within by rasping parasites; thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst and disease.
If I had to choose between being an animal in the wild and living on a farm, I think I would choose a farm. As long as it was a farm that didn't mistreat or abuse animals, of course. Animals slaughtered for food are usually given quicker deaths than those in the wild. This is why groups like PETA who want to get rid of all animals under human control and let them fend for themselves in the wild really aren't doing anything to help animals. Yes, people mistreat animals, but you can't blame everyone for that.

Domesticating wild animals was a kindness to them. Factory farming took that kindness away though. Better to support the development of lab-grown meat than try to convince everyone to be vegan, which will never happen. It'll put animal welfare on a higher priority if it's easy to get everyone their meat with better production from lab-grown methods, returning to smaller farms and wanting animals to be kept happier and healthier for other purposes.

...

You are brainwashed. I used to be brainwashed too. You are shit posting so you have no excuse, you have time to learn.

>disagree with me?
>brainwashed shitposter!!!
Every time you post something like this you're potentially driving people away from doing things to help animals because they don't want to be like you. They associate people who care about animal welfare with extreme and hateful vegans, and you're not helping anyone by doing that.

>thinking that would be enough food for other animals
>not taking in the fact that there would be one less gigantic food source
>thinking there would be enough pills for everyone to get the correct nutrients and probiotics
There's a lot that goes into if. Though this is just theory and I think its pretty accurate. So much food would not be used and it'd only be vegetarian food being eaten.

i used to be vegan. till i developed ibs
turns out im allergic to beans and whole grains :(
so i just eggs and rice now.

FUck you cotton ball bitch. I earned my knowledge spending years of my life reading. You just fucking suck. This isn't grade school. I don't have to be nice to you.

If you eat Oreos and fries everyday you're going to feel like shit. Veganism isn't a diet. You should have gone WFPB.

>literally autistic screeching

Veganism is a mosanto false flag.
>everyone stops eating animal produce
>all the farms go bankrupt
>only the rich can afford meat
>everyone is slurping on mosanto corn porridge and drinking carrot juice

The livestock eat more corn than they could ever get humans to eat. How could you not know that?

More like factory farms are buying up all the farm land because the goal of the 1% is to enslave the remaining humans. The humans who survive the pesticides, wars, chemical bombardment, drugs, stds, car crashes, ect..

I've also spent years of my life reading. I am quite ill and have been stuck inside for about half of my life, and spent a lot of that time reading. The difference is that you just seem to hate people, and you justify your hatred under the guise of helping the animals. Attacking people isn't going to make anyone want to help the animals, they're just going to take your position and views less seriously. Maybe you started out actually wanting to help animals, but somewhere along the way you just wanted to fight people like so many others. It's not healthy and it's not helping animals. Many people have said the same thing, that extreme vegans turn them off from considering other viewpoints because they don't like the way they treat people. You don't have to be nice, but if you think ad hominem attacks and refusal to discuss anything because you believe your position is 100% correct and you know everything there is to know is helping the animals, you're just lying to yourself.

That keeps prices too low and introduces competition for monsanto.

My apologies. I wasn't aware we were playing spoony knifey

Nobody is perfect, I know I am flawed.

After six years of being 100% organic vegan in the USA I have noticed the hive mind is so fucking magnetizing that I should just be myself. I really don't care to convert you. I would rather sicken you, smack you in the face with the facts, and shit on you. Nothing makes me angrier than the slugish, bipolar, zombies I am surrounded by. You all say the same things over and over and over just like the radio, just like the T.V., Just like a bunch of stupid parrots.

You don't know shit about this topic. Your opinion is average. AVERAGE. It is worthles

I've probably read about this stuff at least as much as you have. You aren't even really contemplating what I'm saying, as I'm agreeing with you on the current issues but differing on how to fix them. You think making everyone go vegan will solve everything, I disagree and think that's an entirely unreasonable goal. But having lab-grown meat available will make people not want to have meat from a slaughtered animal, especially for the next generation who grows up with it available and it not being a new development coming out in their lifetime. To be honest, you're more of a parrot since I see more people saying going vegan will solve everything than talking about lab-grown meat. You can keep thinking you're above everyone, but you're not. Every time you think you're doing good by shitting on people, you're just making someone close their mind off to new ideas.

This is why people hate vegans. I have never met a vegan who isn't just a hateful person looking for a way to vomit his contempt for himself and others in a more socially acceptable way

Animals still suffer, OP, but at least you're not contributing to that. That's enough for me.

Lab grown GMO meat is not the healthy alternative.

Yeah it's quite a shame because they probably started out just wanting to help animals. Maybe they start to get frustrated since it seems like what they're doing isn't working, and that's why a lot of them end up that way. I wish more of them would just support lab-grown meat.

This must be a flyover thing, I know a number of vegans and they have a variety of motives for being vegan let alone their attitudes towards others

I assume in flyover land being a vegan is kind of like not believing in jeebus, you have to be shrill and loud about it to get people to grasp the concept that, just as you said yesterday and the day before that, you don't want a hamburger

Oh and don't even start with the "my state isn't flyover", yes, it is, now STFU

No, I'm not vegan, in case you were wondering

"Lab-grown" and "GMO" are not inherently bad things. Most of what you eat has already been modified by selective breeding. This is just more advanced. You should be wary and cautious of developments like these, but don't treat them as inherently bad.

>I hate vegans. I never ever met a vegan who is as hateful and retarded as me. I am the person looking for a way to vomit his contempt for himself.

Hive mind shill mode delux-a-tron. Probably hasn't ever had enough self control to be 100% vegan for an entire month. Probably still drinks breast milk and swallows salty meat.

You are handbag basic. Like a fucking cookie cutter. People agree with you about this(the majority) because you are all hearing it from TV.

KYS pussy. You obviously haven't got the info.

>"think of all the animals that are being killed!"
>kill yourself pussy
Troll or unreachable at this point. Recommended course of action: state viewpoint and move on, hope subject reconsiders in the future. Wish best of luck.

Soy, Corn, Wheat, and what else? Any other GMO crop being employed here to GROW this meat out of thin air? Oh shit wait you didn't think about that did you?

>being a vegan is kind of like not believing in jeebus, you have to be shrill and loud about it

Nah, I live in the south and when the inevitable biweekly group of smarmy evangelicals come parading up to my door worn bibles in hand, I open it while holding my hounds from hell by the collars, smile and say you've got 30 seconds to get off my property or I release them. Not shrill or hard, but they sure do move on out right smartly.

I have no idea what you're asking or what your point is. I think you're too angry to have a discussion because I can't understand you, your anger is making you belligerent.

>you've got 30 seconds to get off my property
You use those actual words? "My property"? What a strange thing to say.

Are property rights not well enforced in the south? I have a friend from Brazil and he says basically if you're buddies with the right people in government you can basically have some paperwork "lost" and then pay some fees and then you can basically go "oh yeah this land is mine now ha ha" and hire some gunmen and take over whatever you want. I don't think it's one of the big cities, it's like in northern brazil somewhere.

I wonder if it's like that down south too.

How can you argue with a grow your own, be organic as possible, or go fuck yourself mentality.

Are you really that attached to the nipple? Is being entirely self sufficient or at least sustainable such a challenge?

Meat fags are the biggest babies. Cry babies, complainers, picky, selfish, ect... You literally TAKE life to sustain yourself instead of growing your own plants to eat. THAT IS LAZY AND DEGENERATE BEYOND REPAIR.

Pesticide residue and mono crops destroying the environment. The allowable limit for pesticide residue was doubled under Obama and is now entirely unregulated under Trump.

The pesticides are the toxic agent orange chems. The shit that causes long term irreparable damage to your DNA.

The lab grown meat is made from GMOs covered in the shit. We would be better off banning synthetic pesticides, GMOs, and pink slime like shit outright.

In fact if it is not done in a timely manner the USA is going to be the hub of the sickly. Just take for example the BOOMING medical industry in factory farm like cities. Compare that to the China Study and tell me you are some how right.

>Ban sinthetic pesticides
>Everyone switches to organic pesticides
>The enviroment is fucked even more, because guess what, organic pesticides are even worse than sythetic ones.

And if you ban all kinds of pesticides, well, enjoy starvation.

Tell me more about how lavender fermented plant extract, ghost pepper extract, and spraying aphids with ice cold water in the morning hours is worse than genetic damage. Go on.... Tell me how my use of aerated compost teas, local plants, and rock dust is bad. Come on then....

BTW I have been a master organic gardener for the past ten years. You are going to feel like a fucking idiot I assure you.

>are property rights not well enforced in the south

I don't understand what you mean. As the owner of my house and land I can demand anyone leave my house and land and if they refuse they are in violation of the law. I can even demand law enforcement leave if they do not have a court issued search warrant and they must comply or be in violation of the law.

I also live and farm in San Diego, California. San Diego has the most certified organic farms of any county in the country. I have volunteered on a few farms. I purchase my food from the farmers within ten miles of me when I need to. I KNOW what I am talking about, I live the life.

> purposely using misleading language and leaving out important information
>lol you're just butthurt

I know the lack of b12 is rotting your brain, but just apply yourself for a minute.

It's stunning how few people understand this.

Yes, onions are cheaper per pound than beef. They're also literally 97% water by mass. Fucking idiots.

No point to being vegan. Farm animals don't have a sense of identity they lose on death, nothing built over time like humans. So, killing them in a humane way costs them nothing. However, they can still suffer, so you should eat free range meat.

>organic pesticides

You're aware that small and medium sized organic growers do not use pyrethrins and rotenone. Those were rammed into the USDA organic certification by big agri so they could play the organic game with the same scorched earth monoculture techniques they use conventionally. Small and medium sized growers would be happy to see those forbidden.

At least they wouldn't suffer the conditions of a factory farm. Your argument only makes sense if people eat free range. I'd rather die than be a factory farm animal.

But there you go again. Is there a problem with property rights in the south, where you have to go on like that about your legal relationship with the land and the Magna Carta or whatever, any time a stranger treads on it? Like Kleenex corp suing if someone uses their name in vain, lest anyone forget?

Around here we just say "go away" or "you need to leave" and the rest is understood.

Now try to scale that practice to a 100.000 acre field.

Yeah, not such a good plan is it?

I guess it's just a matter of saying "go away" sounds less forceful and more informal than saying "get off my property" which sounds like you really are serious and willing to back it up. Maybe just one of those linguistic nuances?

And how much do "small and medium size growers" actually grow?
Gotta feed an entire country. Small and medium just wont do the trick.

Nobody should have a 100,000 acre field in the first place. 40 acres and 1.5 million USD is the maximum a responsible human should own.

Why are you still supporting the idea that mass consumerism is acceptable? Mono crops destroy diversity and lend to pest infestations anyway.

Hahahahahahahahahaha
Mass consumerism is the reason you have a computer to shitpost with.

Morality don't work like that buddy boy. The only thing you need to worry about saving the world from is yourself.

>Apple filename

You're still brainwashed.

Since you're posting on Veeky Forums, you likely have autism. Study Temple Grandin's ideas to make slaughtering as humane as possible and expand upon it...if you can.

Yes that is correct. Great contribution. Would you agree the children in school should be taught to garden and become independent instead of fucking genociding them because that's my fucking point fuck wald.

I'm on a PC. You can't even run Trisquel on a Mac from what I can tell.

good thread, going to eat some burgers today

veganism is too radical of a practice to ever save the environment, it requires all this technology and globalism to really be a viable practice that isn't basically just starving yourself to death, vegetarianism or just simply limiting your intake of meat is far more grounded in reality

Some vegans will say what you're saying, that anything people try to do should be welcomed even if it's just limiting how much meat they eat. They don't get as much attention as the more hardcore and hateful ones though. And there are some vegans who say they would eat meat when lab-grown meat is available in stores, but some will say they no longer see meat as food and it's gross and other reasons for not wanting it.

The only difference you can make is very small yes.

But that's true of every person and every endeavour in this small rock.

this sounds stupid and is sourceless

That's not a vegan issue though, that concerns all food vegan and non-vegan. Raw food is great, I eat plenty of raw vegan food, I also eat plenty of raw meat and raw animal products.