Why do Americans think wine is a conspiracy to publicly humiliate them? What makes it unique?

Actually, Italy produces more wine than France. Better too.

Those bottles are for yuppies larping like they know wine. Real enthusiasts rarely spend that much on a bottle and if they do it's for good reason. Truth is you can find fantastic estate grown varietals and blends throughout California for $30 or less a lot of Californians in to wine consider Napa to be a sort of wine tourist trap. You just gotta do a little research and leg work to get em but the journey is part of the fun/hobby. I know some good ones if you want recommendations.

It's grape juice that makes you feel funny.
What is there to dislike? Also tastes better to most meals than beer.

Eh, I like both. Depends on the meal and beer. It's personal preference I guess.

I'm good really, and I know it is a bit of a tourist trap but apparently a number of the ones I've visited are award winners and such. I'm not into it, my mother is she has a bunch of memberships and gets bottles delivered to her. I enjoy it, but I don't know wine's not my favorite.

Americans think most things are a conspiracy to publicly embarrass them. It's part and parcel to century of advertising and we've had preying on our insecurity and anxieties about social status.

We all want to be millionaires but we're afraid of being laughed out of the fancy restaurant and being scorned by our old neighbors. So we just avoid enjoying nice things because we feel we don't deserve them, even if we do.

There is the problem of vegetation as well as production. We can grow barley, wheat, "maize" and oat all day long, practically anywhere, but it goes bad after a while, so you have to buy it fresh and drink it relatively soon before it skunks. Not many places can grow grapes in copious amounts in the U.S. and you have to let them sit for a while before you can drink it, which probably lends to the elitist feel to it.

It's a beautiful valley and close to SF so I understand the attraction it's just not where I would go to buy wine. Awards don't mean they're the best ever either. A lot of small vineyards don't bother entering because the competitions can be expensive and notoriously expensive.

We do?
I just thought we thought it was grandma drink

Probably because it markets itself as rather snobby, and the price point is kind of silly high relative to quality. Its just fucking wine a traditional peasant drink, its not like we are talking about talking high tier liquor or beer where the ceiling of quality is much higher

>it's a retard misusing the term zero sum game episode

kek here in my country people from all classes drink wine, even more than beer.
We happen to have a lot of traditions were drinking wine is acceptable

Also the glassware. Can drink beer/liquor/whiskey from a bottle or cup, but wine glasses are meant specifically for wine and have been historically seen for usually upper class usage.

And religion, since wine is usually reserved for special occasions in majority Christian U.S.

How do I start with wine? I'm tired of drinking hard alcohol

A big thing too is the French connection. Back in Jefferson's day the French were out beloved ally, and he pushed for an American winemaking industry as part of his agrarian American dream. But that dream failed to catch on as the fundamentally English and soon to be German culture of the nation embraced beer over wine, seeing things French as effete. Among those who drank beer became the drink of the common man, as it is in England and Germany. Wine became a thing for snobs and bums.

This has turned around over the last couple decades, but the degree to which it has varies by region and social class.

How is this in any way relevant to his post?

Because wine has a culture of pretentiousness around it. Its like craft beer drinkers. There is nothing wrong with enjoying craft beer or wine, but so many people who are into it have their head up their own ass.

I like craft beer and wine before anyone gets upset

Dry whites are very accessable and not too sweet. Tawny ports are a good transition if you liked whiskey, rum, or brandy.

Good whites are granache, vinho verde, and Riesling varieties. All three can be found in California/Oregon/Washington or their respective home countries. Some varieties that got me into reds we're syrah, primativos, and Barberas and blends based on them.

Some tips
>Always decant
>Always let sit for 15 min some reds like Petit syrah need up to an hour
>Whites/roses serve slightly chilled reds at room temp

>There is nothing wrong with enjoying craft beer or wine, but so many people who are into it have their head up their own ass.

I wonder how much of this is really true for most people's experiences. I mean, yeah, Budweiser is going to market itself against the stereotypes of elitism and pretense, but how many of those people actually, truly act that way? I've been a bartender in a city with a reputation as pretty far up its own ass for several years and I feel like I see a lot more anti-elitist "IPAs taste like flower-water, give me a coors lite" than "I won't drink anything that doesn't list its hop lineage" and people who drink wine generally don't talk about it to other people unless they also drink wine. And people who are truly pretentious are that way because it's their character; if you act superior about your taste in alcohol you almost certainly do about your taste in e.g. music but it's not because of the things you like it's because of who you are.

You're right those people exist, and you're right about asshole people being assholes, but theres no "culture" around macrobrews. I bartend at a pub with 50 taps. The people you mentioned don't give a shit about beer, they just want something cheap they can drink with their friends. The people who get really anal about it are the craft drinkers and wine people. There is a general culture around these beverages that tends to tell them they have some magical superior sense of taste and they're better than the rest. Its the whole reason the craft beer market has really taken off in recent years. Same with wine, look at the judgment of Paris. For sure there are people who enjoy craft beer and enjoy wine and aren't cunts about it, but so much focus on tasting on subtlety and notes and etc and how these drinks are a sign of "sophistication" leads to these kinds of attitudes.

A lot of people aren't cut out to be enthusiasts about food because they are afraid of strong opinions that may be different. Two ways this manifests is Trump types reeeeing at "elitist" culture and anti fa faggot redditors saying whatever is trending on insta is "omg the best thing ever" when it's fucking mozz tomato basil and garlic with a barefoot label wine

>winemaking didn't catch on in the colonies

You have to remember that those colonies really didn't have the ideal climate for growing wine grapes. The southern colonies were too humid and the northern colonies too humid and cold as well. Plus the early immigrants were overwhelmingly from england which had no wine culture except within the french influenced aristocracy. Top it off with the loony puritanical elements (think southern baptists and pentecostals) and wine just wasn't going to work in early america.

Lapierre Morgon is fantastic!
Wine is great. Like everything else there's good, bad, and in between. I've been in the wine business for 17 years mostly and full time for 15. I even own a wine shop as my career so of course I'll defend it.
People who lash out about wine (or any comestible really) ought to pay attention to exactly why they didn't like the glass they tried and not be afraid to ask for assistance from someone in the biz. If you're hell bent on hating it loudly then whatever.
Wine snobs are the very worst. I can go toe to toe with any snobbish wine cock but only if they barge in to my shop trying to "educate" me on their convictions. 99.9% of my interactions consist of me earnestly trying to help find a bottle that the customer will like at any price point. There's so much good wine out there that there's really no excuse to drink crappy stuff.
>"I paid $75 on a bottle and it sucked!"
It's true that you can blow money on swill easily but you don't have to.

Yeah trying to grow French varieties fucked them the most. German whites would've adapted better

I don't believe this at all, but it's a common perception,. Wine in the US is a luxury product - drinkable bottles tend to cost $10-$20, and something special can be a lot more than that. To the average American that's a lot of money to spend on a beverage. So the average American isn't drinking wine all that often. An American with the disposable income to drink wine regularly enough to become knowledgeable about it would be wealthier than average. Average Americans throw around the word "pretentious" with regard to many things the wealthy spend their money on. It always comes off as defensive to me.

Yeah you're right lots of Americans of french, italian, Portuguese, or Spanish descent drink regular table wine all the time. That all Americans think wine is pretentious is a meme. The Gallo family of California sells more wine than anyone else and most of it is by jug or box

Wine is seen as something you have to appreciate and most Americans aren't raised to appreciate eating and drinking. Food is just fuel, shove it in your face. Chug that bud light, wolf down that burger and don't think about it.

Slowing down to enjoy a good meal is seen as a luxury at best and pretentious at worst.

It's a matter of region and social class. If you live in a less cosmopolitan part of the country you might see drinking wine as effete and unmanly because the only people you know who drink it are rich folks and women alcoholics. That prejudice doesn't exist in the more cosmopolitan parts of the country, especially in wealthier areas.

But you're wrong. A lot if the nationalities I listed settled in rural towns and farms. Also, you're not explaining the mass sales of cheap wine. It's only flyovers that feel this because the Midwest was settled by Scandinavians and Germans. It's 100% where you came from 0% class related.

>Tastes better to most meals
Beerlet detected

NY state grows some great riesling, pinot noir, pinot gris, and rkatsiteli

Nobody even bothered trying that stuff until the 20th century and most plebs don't know any of those grapes or they think they're not good (except pinot noir which they think they are supposed to like even though most PN sold in the US is actually 49% petit sirah)

Where do Euroshits get these memes from? Is this what they teach in their mandatory American Obsessiom classes?

Beer is good for pub grub and stuff like that, but for a real meal no one wants a belly full of CO2 except hamplanets who think "made me uncomfortably full" = "a good meal"

I'm American and I suspect that guy is American too. Why can't flyovers handle it when Americans reflect on American cultural issues?

>It's 100% where you came from 0% class related.
I'd still argue with that, because even cheap wine is a luxury that someone under financial stress can easily cut out of their budget. If you're working a shit job to support a family and barely making ends meet chances are you're not buying wine.

It's a sad state of affairs. Southern Oregon grows the same varietals. It's a fun region to visit for alcohol enthusiasts because their craft beer and dry Spanish style ciders are on point too. And it's CHEAP to rent rooms and booze prices are fair. Most places don't charge for tours or tasting either.

But they don't. Alcohol is not an elastic industry. People drink when they're down and drink better when they're up.

The type of American that likes American lagers are the same people that prefer bland food. They also don't like nicer beer because it literally has more flavor.

I like Coors or pacifico or Corona with spicy food. Particularly Mexican.

Every time i get wine at the store people think im having some fancy night. I just don't feel like being bloated or having my stomach pumped.

Spicy food deserves more respect than that. IPAs, brown ales, dubbels, that sort of thing would be good. Something that can stand up to the heat but still has a personality of its own

Tabla, a well respected Indian joint in NYC that closed a while back, had a custom brewed belgian that went great with a lot of their food

If you spend more than $15 on a bottle of wine neck yourself.

>Why do Americans

Go to the store and buy some Taylor port.

Deschutes fresh squeezed is a good IPA for that, otra vez and other gose too, but hey sometimes I want those lagers with some lengua. Nothing wrong with that either. I'm not ignorant of other beers I just like everything depending on my mood. I will disagree on the darks. Dark lagers yes. Brown ales no. Well maybe new castle. See what I mean! I can see a mood and argument for everything. My palette is very open minded. But when it's 100° outside and I just got done working on the farm with the boys and we hit the taco stand it's pacifico time ya know?

I used to live in a place like that. "Oh you have a date tonight"? Yeah a date with my hand asshole, just push the buttons on the register and STFU

Feels good to live in a city with normal people again. The line at the wine store has construction workers, salarymen, trust fund girls, little old puerto rican ladies, and so on. They put the $90 bottles right next to the $10 bottles because it's arranged by country and region, as it should be, and not by parker points or some other stupid ass shit that non wine drinkers pay attention to

Hey bud farmers gotta eat too some of the places I buy from are one man operations trying to pay the property tax , the abc board, and the loan off. I'm happy to pay $30 for their labors. Your type of Wal Mart shopping dealism is why there's no more American manufacturing.

Oh, yeah, I mean if your only spicy food you ever eat is at the taco truck next to the construction site, you're not going to demand the beers on tap list like some kind of autismo, but that's a whole other story. They're serving that stuff because the clientele isn't interested in anything better.

Go to an Enrique Olvera joint and they sure aren't serving Corona.

American wine, particularly California wine, is massively overpriced in large part because it's on land that costs more per square foot than a penthouse in Tsim Sha Tsui

I do drink American wine but only from the high QPR regions, where land is cheap as shit and plebs can't find the name in the wikipedia "judgment of paris" article

That is a good point. Why arent property taxes calculated by measure of adjacent public road access?