Why are the requirements to be a doctor so ridiculous? It should be treated like a trade

lawsuits

because people feel safer in the hands of someone that they can identify with.

>how come they don't import doctors from other countries to depress doctor pay like they do with computer guys?
Because computer work can be outsourced, and it's supposedly better to have Haji paying rent, buying food, etc in the US than India.
By contrast, it's harder to outsource doctors.

>It should be treated like a trade

>lol let's just let incompetent people open up live human bodies what could go wrong :^)

I clearly have a bias because I'm fond of the med students and MDs I interact with.

I don't think you can't make tweaks to the system, but I'd like to know what is a good thing to eliminate from a doctor's education? Maybe if you could have them specialize sooner and just not bother to learn anything about kidneys if you're focused on the brain, but, parts of the body don't exist in isolation. If anything, I feel like the ways I'd want to improve doctors is to make them study MORE, in regards to chemistry and physics...which doesn't really help bring it closer to a trade.

Bad people get in, sure, but the implication I get with "make it like a trade" is that you're having people do important work to maintain human bodies without understanding the fundamental principles that make maintenance possible.

Maybe this is okay at the level of EMT? Although, I don't know what requirements they have.

>Why are the requirements to be a doctor so ridiculous?
Because leftists passed shit laws and made a board of doctors that regulate doctors, and doctors keep grandfathering themselves and raising the requirements in order to artificially increase their worth.

Why can't you be doctor on black market...

Even Simpsons portrayed it.

Question is, if wattson doesn't do better diagnosis atm.

>Why can't you be doctor on black market...
Because the 9th circuit court doesn't believe in freedom, contract law, or personal responsibility.

human digitizers are notoriously bad. Watson could do a reasonable job at interpreting test results, but short of brute forcing medical tests, watson couldn't replace a doctor.

yeah what a horrible oppressive country we live in that attempts to prevent quacks from practice medicine, my heart breaks every time I go to a surgeon and I realize there's a high probability that he knows what he's doing
and to think, these monsters also wish to prevent medical comapnies from allowing the free market to determine the value of experimental drugs like thalidomide. truly it is a sorrow to be so oppressed.

You are a fucking retard with no understanding of economics or game theory, kys commie

you're the fucking retard if you think free markets create good medicine
just look at history
or goddamn, don't look at history, look at the state of new-age medicine and all the quackery that's allowed today!

My argument is you can learn all of those things in less time than an undergrad career + med school career

>They make me take 4 semesters of chemistry, 2 of biology, 2 of mathematics and 2 of physics?!
>This is so ridiculous!

medical school is entered directly after High School in Europe. I agree the US system is ridiculous and a waste of money. There is no need for doctors to go through 4 more years of general education courses.

US education system is a one big joke after all.

Are you serious

And that's why European doctors can't practice in America without extensive retraining but US doctors can practice anywhere in the world with little to no extra training.

it's not because they never took calculus, it's because the US system doesn't accept technical accreditation from other countries. that doesn't mean US doctors are any better.

>Muh rich lobby and extra regulations
>Cock in my ass feels quite pleasant actually

people's lives are valued somewhat more than of objects'

Christ man did you really just say that

I don't know much about the European approach but it seems they take about 6 years to complete med school, as opposed to the 4 undergrad + 4 med school in US. So, that seems to demonstrate you can cut down the time; I guess it's true those gen eds eat up time and slow your progress.

But, let's say in the US we got it down to 6 years. Is that still anywhere near a "trade"? Should a trade take more than 2 years? The amount you need to know to prescribe medicine and actually know what you're doing can't be learned in 2 years.

Maybe with some really advanced support networks and computer assistance, there could be a way to get something going, but that's not a doctor. A doctor should understand what they're doing. If not, who does? The Pharmacology department? Will the doctor have to go running to other people to get confirmation before even thinking about doing anything? If they're not as well trained, you'd have to give them less autonomy. Alternatively, you can expect a lot of people to die from not being able to correctly prescribe Warfarin.

>I'm going to extrapolate and go into semantics because I have nothing of worth to add to the core

Ok

>that doesn't mean US doctors are any better.

True. That's from the fact we have the best medical schools and hospital by miles

Naw I'm pretty sure it's the being payed many times more than any other country that feels so good. Which is probably why you don't see our doctors literally rioting in the streets.

I genuinely thought the topic of the thread was making "Doctor" a trade. What's the goal?

The post he replied to had even less to say. A doctor being taught for two years like a trade and for a low salary is just a fucking EMT. So they're basically saying they only want EMTs treating people.

Masturbation. Jerk. Leave me alone ok?I fucking hate people like you

Wrong.
Stop assuming the wrong thing on purpose and acting like you're right. Do you have any idea how frustrating that is?

:O

s-sorry

>Doctors formed lobbying that make medical school slots artificially scarce
>in order to keep doctors in low supply so that pay is high.

this

I'm going to end my fucking life

Then clearly point out how his and mine assumptions are wrong. What are you autistic?

>Masturbation. Jerk. Leave me alone ok?I fucking hate people like you

Oh wait I'm sorry you're not autistic just a middle schooler.

>Why are the requirements to be a doctor so ridiculous?
tehy are not ridiculous

doctors should be very smart and capable people

if you cant handle it dont be a doctor

the day you or one of your loved ones has aa serious medical condition youll lose this shitty opinion

youre not qualified to be a doctor, theres plenty of people who are capable and willing to do what it takes and much more

but I love you user

I wish I was a middle schooler.
Oh hey. Dumbass number two who assumes the OP is a pre-med fuckhead whining about his "hard " med school pre reqs.

What is life like being you?

people like you are why things will always stay as bad as they are or get worse
>it's probably like that for a reason let's keep it

yeah, by no means am I advocating 2-year medical school, you definitely need more than a bricklayer.
but there is no reason for the gen ed requirement and it fucks up things for everybody else. And you get the people who are pre-med that never get admitted to med school.
>True. That's from the fact we have the best medical schools and hospital by miles
False. European medical schools consistently rank close to US. The US healthcare system is not even among the top 25 in the world.

Alcoholism is a good alternative desu.

You don't think they already type all test results into a computer then get recommended which treatment or further tests should be performed?

IMO the nurses and lab technicians are already doing the jobs that require humans.

>Surgeons do the opening, not doctors :^)

I'm going to open up a shell company in Delaware and pretend to be looking for medical experts. The first part of the hiring process will be to ask the doctors to answer questions about what they would do in various scenarios regarding diagnosis/treatment. Then all of the information will be compiled into an expert system that can do the diagnosis/treatment without a doctor. Nobody will be hired. Just turn the interview process into a mechanical turk.

Is there a way to teach yourself everything a G.P knows? I'm just really curious .

>European medical schools consistently rank close to US.

Based on what some shitty local newspaper in Europe? You guys got Oxford and Cambridge. We have John Hopkins, Harvard, Mayo, UCLA etc. It's not even a comparison.

It is treated like a trade
the requirements aren't particularly ridiculous

You could start by learning from the books they used in medical school.
All of the information required is probably scattered around in a bunch of books.
I doubt there is much of an unwritten oral tradition.

>Is there a way to teach yourself everything a G.P knows?
only if youre really smart, some things are hard to really understand thats why they must be explained by a teacher

but then, after a lot of (actually pointless) work you would only know the theoretical part of it, being a doctor involves a lot of practical stuff, and not only that, you must perfectly understand the correlation between practice and theory

in short if you want to be a doctor just go to fucking med school, it takes like 10 years for a reason

I like how you are trying to base an opinion off of social narrative.

no thanks, doctors are already retards by and large

>or goddamn, don't look at history, look at the state of new-age medicine and all the quackery that's allowed today!
Right of contract and personal responsibility is all I have to say.

It objectively doesn't take that long for a reason

Medschool is 6 years in Europe but can't do anything with it until specializing. Residency takes minimum 2 years, but you can specialize further.
For example, if you want to be a GP, thats "only" 8 years. But if you want to be a psychiatrist for adult people, thats gonna be another 5 years. So thats 11 years until you can finally work alone. But thats just a general psychiatrist. If you want to specialize lets say in children, thats gonna be 6+5 and another +2 here. So thats 13 years overall. its fucking sick, I just want to become a GP and live a comfy life

Becoming a editor in chief takes about this much time investment and experience, or lead project designer, or a myriad other professions. Your delusion is thinking there's anything comfy about the life of a GP or any other medical professional, or any professional at all for that matter. Life's not cozy.

I meant its comfy compared to other doctors who are specialized. GPs here mainly deal with things like fever and flu. Obviously there is a pressure on them but they don't have to deal with more serious things on a regular basis because they can just direct the patients further.
I know med school is hell but there arent many well respected professions.
My mom in a middle school teacher, which should be easy in theory but its hell. On average, she is in school from 8 to 16. The kids are extremely dumb so its incredibly frustrating for her to teach. There is a huge pressure from the parents. She has to attend to every special events the school has, which is a lot. They have to practicing for these retarded events months before, like teaching kids dance and stuff. I'm actually afaid she is going to go mental one day. All this for a shit salary and no respect.

Why not just go for a nurse practitioner?

There's no real point in going for a GP unless you've got a fancy for running your own business, which isn't particularly comfy or fun to do.

I dropped out and got interested in medicine and chemistry. Originally I wanted to be a pharmacist but in Eastern Europe they have extremely bad salary and rotting in a pharmacy store for 30 years doesnt sound too good.

Have you thought about being a pharmaceutical representative or in pharma market research? There's tons of stuff where you can apply that knowledge base without being a medical provider.

Yeah, I was thinking about it but honestly it sounded a bit more risky. I'm a huge pussy, I know.
And even if I'm not that much of a people person, helping them sounds nice in the end.

I'm not sure what it's like over there, but here, a very large issue is the ability for people to interface with the healthcare services. Having expertise and knowledge is almost no help towards that end. The doctors are just repositories of medical judgment and opinion.

RNs and nurse practitioners are people who are actually pretty helpful to the individual patient.

I'd personally like to help find better interfacing systems for people to convey their healthcare needs through. Some market researchers I work with are bridging the gap between the patient and the pharmaceutical companies, because there's quite a divide and level of distrust there.

I wouldn't give up hope or be too nervous that you can't do shit yet. Try to figure out what your path towards helping people would be -- and some people help others without being a people person -- and things will kind of fall into place. You'll find your spot, even if it winds up being medical journalism and helping the average person understand what previously has been unnecessarily mystified to them.

Thank for the advice user. After years I'm finally trying to be optimistic about the future and have a more positive mindset in general.

In Eastern Europe, the biggest problem with healthcare is the lack of money in it. As an ex-soviet country, its free for people who are studying or working but the quality of the service is extremely bad. Hospitals don't get enough money, they are in a very poor quality. Doctors still expect some extra money in an envelope. People often have to wait weeks or even months to have an appointment. A lot depends on the connections you have. You can basically apply every eastern european stereotype to the system. It's in an extremely poor state without any exaggeration.
There are private hospitals and doctors, which are good for smaller things like an eye-exam or going to a dermatologist. They offer higher quality service with a little wait time. But the vast majority of people can't afford private doctors for more serious things like a cancer treatment.

I know in western europe/us there is a rise in male nurses but I don't see that here. There is a major called "Medical Laboratory and Diagnostic Imaging Analyst" which has gotten extremely popular recently

Best of luck, user.

They do. At least in the UK and EU. Anyone trained to be a doctor in the eu can go anywhere in the eu and practice.

>I just want to become a GP and live a comfy life
Looking at warts growing on an old womans vagina is so comfy.

This

It's supply and demand

Want cheaper medical care? Allow more doctors

>You don't think they already type all test results into a computer then get recommended which treatment or further tests should be performed?

Well, I'm sure they use resources at their disposal, but that's not exactly what I was trying to get at. To me it's like the difference between a good math student using a calculator where it's allowed on an exam vs some asshole who thinks they know how to do everything because they own a calculator. The person who understands the field will have enough knowledge to judge when the computer gives back incorrect information, or how to synthesize what they're given to find better answers.

I dunno, maybe that's not quite how it works, but I don't think doctors are that full of shit.

>You don't think they already type all test results into a computer then get recommended which treatment or further tests should be performed?

Are you in some magic futuristic hospital or, more likely, talking out of your ass? Out of the several dozens of doctors I've shadowed and many different hospital I have been in I've never seen such a program.

Mainly because if a doctor would fail and their education, or lack of one could be put to blame, the lawsuits that would follow would be ruining for any company that hired them

Because they deal with the life of a human

>Might makes right

No magic is involved.
That technology is capable right now.
What kind of backwards dark-age hospital are you working at?
No wonder the medical field is so expensive.
Could you imagine how much food would cost if all of the farming was done by hand by people working for minimum wage?

We already do. They're called nurses. For the most part they're the ones actually caring for the patient and telling the doctor if the treatment needs to be changed depending on the results/condition

So do electricians, automotive techs, and general contractors.

If you fuck up fixing someone's pipes, it's not the end of the world. If you fuck up fixing someone's organs, then they fucking die. Clearly doctors should be held to a higher standard. But, because of this, there are less doctors who actually give a shit and more that are just in it for money and have a god complex. It's hard to find a middle ground, so the profession suffers and the price of medical care remains outrageous.

This is why we need more automated medical care. Ideally, it would be nice to walk into a medical facility, step into a booth, it runs me through some simple scans/tests, asks me to piss into something, sticks a needle in my arm, analyzes it all on site, and gives me a printout showing my overall health and advising me whether I need further attention or not.

ironcially
doctors are way too egotistical and think way too highly of their education to ever accept any kind of compromise to their jobs