One of the problems with living on other celestial bodies like the moon and Mars is the low gravity environment causing the human body to deteriorate, so why not just have people wear full body weight suits that would make them weigh the same as they weigh on earth to counteract this.
I assume this wouldn't actually work, but why wouldn't it work?
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Hmmmm... I suppose it is because gravity is a field, meaning it affects not just the load on your musculature skeletal frame, but every cell, and the very chemistry of bonding.
I am not sure of the experimentation, but Russian cosmonauts on MIR exercised and had contraptions for mimicking gravity (springs and rubber bands) and they still suffered muscle and bone degradation.
Stress is not the same as gravity. although your muscles would feel the stress, and you bones might compress a bit, the rest of you would still be in a lower gravitational field.
And just to clarify, when I say full body I mean something like this except with weights everywhere. Something that would distribute weight equally over your entire body.
despite this I think weight suits would definitely help
I'm still confident that Mars's 38% gravity is way better than 0% gravity
At least your blood will know what direction it's flowing in
Because that would be completely exhausting? Maybe your legs only need to exert the same force to keep you upright, but whenever you want to move, you have to produce like 3x the kinetic energy to get a higher-mass body up to speed. You'd feel normal when standing still, but to walk forward would be extremely tiring and sluggish.
The worst health problems are related to the heart, not just skeletal muscle. Astronauts lose quite a lot of heart muscle while in space. Wearing weights doesn't make your blood heavier.
Furthermore, you can't put these weights on unborn babies, or kids that aren't walking yet. The gravity felt by a human in the early stages of life could be crucial to long term health. We've never seen what happens to a human that has been at 30% gravity from birth to adulthood. We need to know what will happen if we are to raise kids on Mars.
These tests will likely be done in large, rotating space stations in the future.
ok let's attach nanobots to every single blood cell to actually make the blood heavier
What you want are gauntlets filled with lead or something so that you still get a cardiovascular workout from having to overcome the inertia of swinging your arms around. Wrist gauntlets would be able to work out almost every part of the body except for the neck and skull.
>implying you are going to look like that
The first child born on Mars will be a true Martian. Unable to come to Earth due to a body adapted to living in 1/3 Earth gravity.
It would be like experiencing 3Gs constantly.
The much simpler solution is to make rotating habitats on Mars. They'd be shaped like dishes and combine Martian gravity with centrifugal force to get near earth gravity.
Another thing that could be done is genetic engineering. Make the body overproduce muscle to compensate for the weakening effects of low gravity.
I don't understand how those rotating habitats would work. Can you make a diagram?
Like a upside down cone that you go round in circles on the edge in
Like this. youtube.com
If cylinder spins at correct speed, outwards centrifugal force and downwards gravity combine to make the "floor" seem level.
People could stand up and walk about.
Unless the radius is very large though, the rate of rotation has to be so high that people inside notice the gradient (head feels less acceleration than feet), the coriolis force (seems to we a sideways force), and they get dizzy.
Imagine something like the Pentagon spinning 2 or 3 times a minute. Huge motors, bearings, and it would wobble if more people stood on one side.
Just imagine a big dish that rotates. They'd be built in craters. The less the gravity of the planet, the steeper the walls would be. In 0g it would be a cylinder shape. Here's an example of one for the moon.
Issac Arthur's last video was about how fast they can spin before people get dizzy. I think it was 1.49 revolutions per minute.
The main problem with your pic is that it's not fucking buried. You wouldn't want to live on the surface of the moon.
In America you guys wear bullet proof vests on your morning jog?
>your blood will know what direction it's flowing in
To get 1 gee net on Mars requires 0.94 gees centrifugal.
1.49 RPM is 0.156 radians/sec
Required radius 403 meters
The habitat needs to be almost exactly half a mile across. 2648 feet, to be precise.
For comparison, the diameter of Apple's new campus is 1,615 feet, which is greater than the Pentagon's diameter of 1,566 feet.
No, not at all. That isn't how it works.
there's no problem with that, similar to how humans adapt to weight training and are able deadlift 600 pounds, how athletes adapt to increase their vo2 max and how sherpas have adapted to high altitudes, similarly a martian could adapt to earth conditions through training. the biggest problems would be with the immune system i think
You're not "adding the planet's gravity to the centrifugal force" with a device like that, you're just using the centrifugal force.
Also I'm not sure what you think building one in a crater would accomplish.
You are adding the planets gravity though. If you weren't the walls would be totally vertical.
There are probably limits though.
Bones thicken when stress is applied, and waste away during months of bed rest. Hearts weaken in zero-gravity.
How would you feel if subjected to 3 times the gravity you'd grown up with? If someone built a station on Jupiter (floating in the clouds, I guess) you could probably walk with the equivalent of another man-and-a-half on your back -- until your spine or your aches hurt too much.
>put nukes in mars' core
>big iron ball core spins faster
>achieve 1G
That would create a magnetic field, not more gravity. You need to add mass to reach 1g.
...
What would happen if we put humans in rotational cylinders at 1.05G.
Then in a 2 decade span, heighten it to 1.15G gradually. Would we have humans that would be capable of 2G as a normal condition in 200 years? Assuming humans are born at normal rate in cylinders and live their livespans in it.
dude they're the same thing
It's being done with animals.
descsite.nl
Link doesn't appear to include results though.
I imagine we'd wind up with sturdier humans, though I suspect it would take much longer than 200 years to produce significant genetic drift. Each successive generation would be biased towards those who weren't stillborn or who didn't die of circulatory failure before reproducing.
How many generations did it take the Indians who live in the Andes to adapt to an oxygen concentration which would leave the rest of us gasping?
We may answer your question if we ever find (and settle) higher-gravity planets. Maybe not 2 gee, but we can't expect every "near Earth" to be EXACTLY like our world.
Until (and if) that time comes, I think such human experiments would be considered immoral and illegal. In addition to the medical risks, people would have to be confined/jailed within the centrifuge their entire lives!
Are you the same jerk who can't distinguish between gravity and magnetism in every single thread?
I hope so!
Hate to think there's a crowd of you.
>Gravity is a field
No it's not
It's an inadvertent reaction to the displacement of matter on the Higgs field, which causes space time to distort, gravity is just you falling in the distortion, no actual force
Dudes, we need to figure out how to create artificial gravity in space. Fuck this earthborn shit.
We know how to do it in space.
Spin.
No one expects hectares of elbow room in a ship or a colony,
Doing it on a planet is the hard part.
>We know how to do it in space.
>Doing it on a planet is the hard part.
Is it really that difficult to draw the conclusion?
just have your martian colonists drink heavy water
>if we need this on mars
Why not test it on earth?
We could make a Veeky Forums&Veeky Forums board friendship gym of high gravity where you can exercise in high gravity by spinning a big wheel to let people work out while experiencing higher gravity. It shouldn't be too hard to build now would it?
Maybe the number of passengers is a bit low for the cost of operating a big gym wheel or the fatigue in the structure could be quite bad but for the rest I see no obstacles
hmmm
nerd
would this actually work? like, if you have a sideways spinning habitat on the surface of a planet then wouldnt you experience both centripetal side gravity and downwards planet gravity resulting in a very annoying and useless diagonal gravity?
pic related
...
It works. Look at the link in The outward force and the downward gravity add vectorially. You put the floors on the right diagonal and the occupants find they're "level".
Again, see To get 1 gee net on Mars requires 0.94 gees centrifugal.
Sqrt (0.94^2 + 0.333^2) = 1
yeah it works but its so retarded like whwat the fuck why do i have to walk all diagonal and shit because scientsits are lazy if wer gonan do something as futuristic as mars living in then just go ahead and invent the artificial gravity, maybe if america didnt spend so much on wars to steal the effort of other peoples that they donty have we would be having the good stuff that science cand iscover with a lot of money
>No one expects hectares of elbow room in a ship or a colony
And now you understand why these things look like one big green belt.
You don't notice it's diagonal.
Why don't the stupid scientists invent FTL drive, cheap transmutation, and immortality pills too?
Some things are harder than others.
Some things are impossible.
If you think they're feasible, learn something useful and get to work on the problems instead of bitching!
We can however express it through a vector field or a single force through the centroid
Well, I guess some people do expect hectares.
But that's Californians for you. Says "Stanford" right on the picture.
>higgs field
as real as string theory and not a part of science, try harder fag
>Another thing that could be done is genetic engineering.
>Make the body overproduce muscle to compensate for the weakening effects of low gravity
>You don't notice it's diagonal.
but when you look out the window the terrain is all messed up
i can have a normal window view right here in my normal house window of earth
so the best scientist on a planet thats supposedly technologic will not have been able to do the normal window view that i without even having studied yet can accomplish achieve.
haha feels good to be superior these guys are a jokes
actually growth hormones and testosterone are being considered as possible treatments for weightlesness
>growth hormones and testosterone for grow muscles
Turning SpaceX & NASA autistic engineers & Veeky Forumsentists into Veeky Forums body builders?
they would still be autistic and drop spaghetti.
altough this would be extremely unfair, astronauts must already get insane amount of pussy, imagine if on top of that all of them were extremely muscular
Well obviously a real one would be buried.
The terrain will mainly be visible through the floor. Centrifugal "gravity" is so much stronger than the "real" Martian gravity that that floors will be nearly parallel to the spin axis.
Not that there'll be a heck of a lot to see outside. Reddish rocks and pink sky and not a plant in sight to break the monotony.
However, I think they'll see what living under 1/3rd gee is like before they start building fancy rotating habitats. The first colonists will, except for the life-support and ecological systems, be living in pretty basic quarters.
So, stay on Earth. No one's forcing you to emigrate. Transport costs so much that countries won't be getting rid of their malcontents, dissidents, criminals, telephone sanitizers, and other undesirables like they sent to America and Australia.
Links to actual research?
They have nasty side-effects.
And, remember, half the people in space (and on the planets) will be women. If it's just men, there's not much point in colonizing a place.
Oh, my mistake. He actually said anything less than 2RPM is acceptable. 1.49RPM was a value he gave for how fast a very large space station needs to spin to get to martian gravity.
So you can actually make the rotating habitats a fair bit smaller than 800m across. I imagine two things, though. The first is that people would probably be okay with 80-90% earth gravity, and the second thing is that 2rpm is probably a limit you don't want to get too close to unless you have to, because it stresses the structure more.
A third thing is that people probably could get used to spinning at more than 2rpm, just like how people get used to bobbing around on ships all day.
I'm pretty sure that's addressed here:
People can PROBABLY live under less than a full gee. But remember, the centrifugal forces vary as the square of the angular velocity. So the spin-rate really doesn't decrease a lot at 80 or 90 percent of full.
I remember that in the original O'Neil space colony studies, like that pictured in , they decided that something like 1 RPM was about the most people could withstand without feeling nauseous.
See www.nss.org/settlement/space/GlobusRotationPaper.pdf
To avoid a number of very negative health effects due to microgee, freespace settlements may be rotated to provide 1g of artificial gravity. Since the NASA/Stanford space settlement studies of the 1970s the settlement design community has assumed that rotation rates must be no more than 1-2 rpm to avoid motion sickness. To achieve 1g, this rotation rate implies a settlement radius of approximately 225-895 m.
Yeah, walking in a weighted suit would be exhausting. If you push a wheeled cart, you're not supporting its weight, but you still have to accelerate all that mass. Hard to start. Hard to stop. Hard to turn corners.
>Yeah, walking in a weighted suit would be exhausting. If you push a wheeled cart, you're not supporting its weight, but you still have to accelerate all that mass. Hard to start. Hard to stop. Hard to turn corners.
Would it really matter that much? I'm pretty sure a healthy adult could handle walking around with a weighted suit even on Earth. If gravity were significantly less it would be super-easy to manage even if it still added slightly more effort than what you would have to spend on Earth without a weighted suit.
While motion sickness is a thing, some people are much more resistant to it than others. Children from 5 to 12 years old, women, and older adults get motion sickness more than others do. It's rare in children younger than 2. I believe resistance to it can be trained, too.
You get motion sickness when one part of your balance-sensing system (your inner ear, eyes, and sensory nerves) senses that your body is moving, but the other parts don't. For example, if you are in the cabin of a moving ship, your inner ear may sense the motion of waves, but your eyes don't see any movement. This conflict between the senses causes motion sickness.
You may feel sick from the motion of cars, airplanes, trains, amusement park rides, or boats or ships. You could also get sick from video games, flight simulators, or looking through a microscope. In these cases, your eyes see motion, but your body doesn't sense it.
But like I said, some people never feel it. Genetics? Or maybe they are able to trust the right senses and ignore the conflicting senses when in these situations.
How the fuck are you supposed to reach Mars' core ?
Would probably just be sturdier humans with some defects. You'd need a lot more time to really adapt them fully, and there would certainly be an upper limit (to the gravity, like say, the body plan and pshysiogy just not functioning adequately. Some small mutations can't fix this). However, this could possibly be a good idea for producing humans capable of withstanding the g-force of fast spaceships.
3 times? You mass, what, 70 kilos? Imagine pushing a shopping cart with 140 kilos of groceries around all day.
Prior to the Apollo missions, people practiced on a "slant board", a nearly vertical surface at such an angle that they were pressed against it with only 1/6th weight. Long wires running parallel to the board took up the rest of their weight. Think of a pendulum displaced from the vertical. On the board they could try out different gaits for moon-walking. They could jump very high and fall slowly, etc. One set of experiments involved weights to see if that would keep men from bounding and maybe tumbling and busting their helmets. It did, but it was so enervating that the idea was dropped. (I assume they would have scooped Lunar dirt into pouches after landing. You wouldn't haul dead weight all the way from Earth.)
I imagine working in a weighted hard-helmet diving suit would be another analog. (Not perfect, because of fluid resistance, but also not nearly as massive as we're contemplating.) Buoyancy takes care of the weight, but it's still stiff and clumsy and tiring.
Continuous high-gee (assuming we had ships which could do it) isn't a great advantage for spacecraft since the time advantage only drops off as the inverse square root of the boost. And the fuel costs go up exponentially.
If and when multiple bodies in the Solar System are colonized, Earthmen are going to be the Herculeses of space. Think about it. ALL other bodies with solid surfaces have lower gravities than Earth.
What would happen is you'd get a bunch of humans with early onset arthritis of the knees. That's all. You'd know this if you ever rucked in the army.
The problem really isn't there unless you plan on going home anyways.
> Bring all asteroids comet and most moons of the solar system to Mars.
Stop reading right there.
That's because Earth is right on the point where you can escape from it with chemical rockets. Just a few percent more heavy and it would be too much gravity for rockets to overcome. So humans are of course going to be a little strong, compared to most other species that attained space flight. On the other hand, we aren't that strong compared to other animals on earth. We would also be weaker than aliens on planets with higher gravity, although they would be stuck on their planet so who gives a shit.
>That's because Earth is right on the point where you can escape from it with chemical rockets. Just a few percent more heavy and it would be too much gravity for rockets to overcome.
Spooky
It would actually be kind of awesome if we were some kind of superman race compared to all other humanoids.
Hate to break it to you bud but they probably won't be humanoids.
They would be, if they wanted to get into space. No race of sentient crabs is going learn chemisty underwater and with claws as their only manipulators. Dolphins are pretty smart, but they aren't going to make tools any time soon, either.
Are we talking Earth species or ayys?
holy autism, batman!
We mean ayys. Chemistry works the same for them as it does for us.
Could you stop jacking him off as if what he said was even remotely correct?
>falling in the distortion
Why not both?
kek'd and check'd
I didn't even read what he said. It seemed like autistic word salad, now you're telling me it IS autistic word salad. Big whoop.
>take a washing machine
>lug it to the iss
>turn it on and shove few rats in it males + females
>wait and see how artificial gravity affects them (altering the RPM to suitable levels is optional and probably recommended)
>inb4 iss is for microgravity studies we don't want planetary contami-uuh-experimental contamination gib grants
Solution: If you go to live on the moon, you can't come back. Then it doesn't matter, does it?
>Imagine pushing a shopping cart with 140 kilos of groceries around all day.
Source on this "you would feel the equivalent of pushing a shopping cart if you used a weighted suit in a low gravity environment" claim? I don't understand what the suit is adding that the equivalent amount of normal gravity wouldn't add and would like to see a third party write-up on this.
It's unlikely that we would be, if we need a constant 1g to actually maintain our muscles and bone density.