Hey guys, going back to school after flipping burgers for the past 10 years. Yes, it's been that long.
The last math I took was Algebra 1, we never touched trig or anything like that and I tried math in University/Physics but got killed in each one. 100% of my failures has been because of laziness and "fear" of getting questions wrong or "seeming stupid". I barely attended lectures, never did homework and got murdered when University started because of that. I still was able to pass my other classes(humanities and general science(Astronomy)) fine due to sheer years of interest in space and knowing things, but I did no homework at all.
So I went on Amazon and bought a few books(pictured) and started with Practical Algebra. I'm very scared though because school starts in the fall and while I am trying to crush those feelings of "you're going to get things wrong. You're not smart" I can't go back to burger flipping. I just turned 30 and my life is in dire need of being turned around before I become stuck.
So what's the problem? I'm mostly nervous and confused because my knowledge is all over the place. I barely remember what a Quadratic equation or Trig is, but I can explain what red-shifting is or how to determine a planets composition. I don't know how to...start learning? I was one of those kids that aced things in elementary/high-school without studying and never really learned how to do so. But seeing younger people than me murdering me in academia has left me feeling rather stupid.
>I barely attended lectures, never did homework and got murdered when University started because of that >I did no homework at all there's your fucking problem
the material in algebra is pretty simple, you learn to manipulate polynomials and algebraic stuff. even the quadratic equation is actually very easy to derive by completing the square if you write it down and think about it.
trigonometry sucks but almost nobody remembers all the identities. you need to know cos^2x+sin^2x = 1, the pythagorean theorem, and the geometric meanings of the sin,cos,and tan function (the unit circle). and the values of sin,cos,and tan at pi/2,pi/4,pi/6 intervals around the circle.
your classes will not expect a sophisticated knowledge of conic sections because algebra 2 doesn't actually teach that.
you also need to know how to manipulate logarithms and exponentials.
>I can explain what red-shifting is or how to determine a planets composition you need to get out of the mode of being a know-it-all and into the mode of thinking and working your ideas out on paper. you need to buckle down and stop yapping. the only way to develop confidence about what you're doing is to do it. and if you don't know how a function works or something, look it up on google. there's lots of tutorial information online these days and being willing to stop and admit "I don't understand" and think about things UNTIL you understand will put you ahead of the game
and go to the fucking office hours and interact with your peers
Jack Bennett
I just can't hold it all in my mind(it feels like). Like even in your response, you've listed off a bunch of terms and it gets so confusing so quickly for me due to the definitions. I don't get it, I know other words and what they mean; but when it comes to math I hear "rationalize the denominator" and my mind goes blank sometimes. I worked through so many problems in University when I began failing math and still ended up failing because the class moved so fast. I feel as if there's something "missing" in my understanding of the subject that's basic. It's like there's gaps everywhere and I don't even know how that happened because I was fine until after highschool.
I have six months to learn Arithmetic, Algebra 1 and 2, Pr-calc and Calc.
I had to look up what you meant by "rationalizing the denominator". nobody except high school algebra teachers use that kind of language.
all this improper fraction shit is stuff only algebra teachers and ancient greeks care about, 99% of the time you only need to be able to manipulate equations to express your unknown in terms of your knowns. Nobody is going to mark your physics homework down for having a radical denominator
that said, the way to work with radicals is the same as everything else in algebra, treat the radical as a variable. With one twist, you know that the radical multiplied by itself is the thing inside the radical. so you multiply by a fraction you know equals 1 to get rid of the radical.
ultimately you need to work through these books on paper until you get comfortable with what you're doing. It takes a lot of discipline to teach yourself something, especially something difficult for you. It sounds like your first priority should be a review of algebra. The biggest hurdle is getting used to manipulating equations.
Jeremiah Hill
>Arithmetic what don't you know about arithmetic?
Samuel Moore
That's one of my issues though apart from sheer laziness setting me behind. Sometimes a math prof will say something and it'll make no sense to me, but I'll know how to do it from something I learned in highschool or vice-versa. I'm honestly getting killed because of terminology and how X+y=z is a "system of linear equation" instead of a linear equation is all fine and dandy until the questions start becoming more complex.
And yes I know how to manipulate radicals but again, I feel frustrated when the radicals get messy. I think I know it but I thought I knew a lot of things because Pre-calc humbled me real quick. I can add, subtract, multiply, divide and know all the axioms for all that. But when I wrote an arithmetic test to see where to start my studies, I had to think about where 3/5 fit in between a 1/2 and 5/7 for example. It's honestly terrifying, this feeling of "incompleteness" in my education.
Kevin Brown
>I had to think about where 3/5 fit in between a 1/2 and 5/7 for example that's not such an easy general problem. ordering fractions is not that intuitive and it's not something that most people can just "think" about in general. The only general approach is to get them to a common denominator. The two ways people do this is decimal expansion.
or since the least common multiple of 2, 5, and 7 is 2*5*7 = 70 1/2*(5*7)/(5*7) = 35/70 3/5*(2*7)/(2*7) = 42/70 5/7*(2*5)/(2*5) = 50/70
that's the only general approach. Here you can use shortcuts if you are observant:
since 3/5 = 1 - 2/5 and 5/7 = 1 - 2/7 and since 2/5 > 2/7 we know 5/7 > 3/5
and we know 3/5 > 1/2 because 3/5 > 3/6 = 1/2
So I guess two things you need to understand are
a/b > a/c if b < c (so for example 3/2 > 3/4)
d/e > d/f if f > e ( so for example 4/5 > 4/6)
but I assure you these are not things that many people have internalized. Don't feel too insecure about that.
>I'm honestly getting killed because of terminology and how X+y=z is a "system of linear equation" instead of a linear equation is all fine and dandy until the questions start becoming more complex.
a system of linear equations is just multiple linear equations. There are some things in linear algebra that let you draw general conclusions about them, but you aren't expected to know that in your first year of university. solving systems of equations requires careful algebra, which is why I suggested that should be your priority. you need to get comfortable with algebra. you need to get comfortable with the concept of variables.
Noah Cooper
oh and with the decimal expansion you can imagine an algorithm that long divides and "stops" when it gets to 0.7 because 0.7>0.6>0.5
so 2 into 1 = 0 -> 2 into 10 = 5 remainder 0 5 into 3 = 0 -> 5 into 30 = 6 remainder 0 7 into 5 = 0 -> 7 into 50 = 7 remainder 1
I guess what I'm trying to get across to you is there's depth to almost anything in math that most people don't think about. They just memorize the formula and move on. What you need to learn is how to think very carefully about what you know and what that tells you, that is how you build confidence in math.
Ryder Wright
Here's a trick to getting over your nervousness Everyone is stupid, it's just to a different degree Never be afraid of getting anything wrong or saying the wrong answer in class If you get it wrong it'll help you remember it better Anyone who laughs or attacks you for being wrong probably isn't too bright themself We learn through mistakes so make lots of them in school so that you'll be ready to get it right in the real world
Jason Gonzalez
>I barely attended lectures, never did homework and got murdered
Why does this surprise brainlets?
>"fear" of getting questions wrong or "seeming stupid".
Literally nobody gives a shit if you fuck up the first time. This isn't middle school in Japan.
Juan King
>I went on Amazon and bought a few books(pictured) >The miseducation of the negro >The Mis-Education of the Negro is a book originally published in 1933 by Dr. Carter G. Woodson.[1] The thesis of Dr. Woodson's book is that blacks of his day were being culturally indoctrinated, rather than taught, in American schools
Niggers destroyed their own society completely by themselves. All blacks should strive to act as "white" as they can. Shun your fellow niggers and you will find great success in America.
Caleb Jones
So I'm not inept for feeling stupid about that question? It just seemed so "simple" to me on the test and when I had to think it through in my head, I felt like a moron. The thing is, I don't know what "being good at math" means. I have friends in STEM programs and even years later we will talk about stuff and they'll correct me on what I feel is "basic".
As for Algebra, I am not uncomfortable with it and I am fine with variables and maniuplating them. I only struggle when things such as radicals, formula's, coefficients, factors, asympotes etc get involved. I get overwhelmed with everything despite writing things down explicitly and showing my work.
Thank you. That's what my friend said as well, but being 30 especially and working with fresh out of highschool students can be a bit difficult. I guess I need to put my ego aside and just do the work.
If math is a language, then vocabulary is what's dragging me down. My father taught me from a young age that I should write down things explicitly and also use the proper terms for even operators so that I knew what I was doing instead of just "doing". I've been trying that again and while it is frustratingly slow, it does help to remember what the terms mean.
Oliver Torres
there is at least one other fraction test I didn't think of when I posted that, you can divide a fraction by the other (multiply by the reciprocal) and see if the result is > 1. so 5/7*5/3 = 25/21 > 1 and 5/7 > 3/5. I've been through most of a university physics degree and I didn't think of that. Now I wasn't the smartest person in my program but I don't think I was the dumbest either. and fyi non-math adults do NOT understand fractions
>radicals like I said you're not gonna need to do very sophisticated stuff with these, and if you need to you can always look up the methods
>factors you mean factoring polynomials? you don't need to have all the stuff from algebra under your belt. sometimes it helps, but mostly you need to use (x+a)(x-a) = x - a^2 and the quadratic formula
>asymptotes ehh. I don't remember needing to figure out asymptotes to linear equations without getting help. You need to be able to figure out the limit of a function or where it diverges (vertical and horizontal asymptotes) more often. this stuff you will also get more comfortable with as you learn calculus. limits, etc.
>coefficients what?
>formulas this is a tricky one. Usually if you don't remember a formula in physics, you didn't understand it. But you can always do flash-cards etc. for the quadratic formula you can sing it to "row-row-row-your boat", that's how I learned it. Speaking of: jwilson.coe.uga.edu/EMAT7050/Students/Wilson/Quad.htm
Dominic Rogers
>working with fresh out of highschool students can be a bit difficult. they will treat you like you're stupid but you will probably be one of the most mature out of the bunch. if you're disciplined and humble and you take everything seriously. you have one up on them in that you've been working in the real world.
I will warn you, the algebra in physics courses gets intimidating at times (messy). You make a mistake, and you'll take ages to find it. But you will get better, and if you're in a physics track program with other physics majors they will try to help you get used to it.
Christopher Reed
one other thing: a good university freshman physics course will greatly improve your understanding of calculus. the two subjects are deeply connected.
Lincoln Scott
tl;dr, OP: Practice. Don't study to try to *understand* math, study to try to *do* a lot of math, by doing tons of practice problems.
Many people think of studying math as being mostly about getting to understand new concepts. It is not. When you are studying math, maybe 5% of the work goes into understanding the new ideas. The remaining 95% goes into practicing their application, until you can actually apply the ideas and perform the manipulations, quickly, reliably, reasonably error-free, and without too much thinking.
For when you learn a new concept in mathematics, then the NEXT concept you will learn will build upon that first concept. The description of what the second concept is all about, and what its basic properties are, and how this is useful, and what you can do with it, will all heavily rely on applying the ideas from the first concept, in various ways and including a fair bunch of tricky cases.
So to understand that second concept, it is not enough that you understand the first concept on paper. You must understand the first concept to the point that you can apply it on autopilot, and you can read an explanation with four equations and five different terms from the first concept without breaking a sweat. If your mastery of the first concept is not strong enough for that -- if you need to look up the details of two of those five terms before understanding the explanation -- then you will never really understand the second concept, for you'll be juggling too many things in your head to make sense of it all.
[continued...]
Josiah Butler
[continued]
If you want to solve a basic calculus problem -- find the maximum of a function, say -- then this involves doing a sequence of maybe seven algebra manipulations of various difficulties. If for three of them you think carefully about whether you are doing it right, then you will never *understand* the calculus. At best, you'll be able to pull off the arcana by rote, but you won't understand what you are doing. To do it right, those seven algebra steps must be things you can do in your sleep -- tedious and annoying, perhaps, but no longer difficult. So you must practice the fuck out of that algebra, until it becomes second nature, and only then move on to calculus.
Some parts of mathematics are actually studied almost entirely for this reason. Trigonometry is a good example. The parts of trigonometry that people actually care about is, oh, perhaps two weeks worth of mathematics. But many calculus problems involve quite complicated trigonometric manipulations; and so you must practice an overpowered toolbox of techniques of dealing with those, or you will get stuck in calculus later. Not because you can't figure out the manipulations by themselves -- you could just power through the problems when you encounter them -- but because, when you are studying a piece of calculus that requires all the trigonometry, you'll get so bogged down in the trigonometric maze that you'll lose sight of the larger calculus point. So you practice all that trigonometry, so that for the calculus problems, the amount of stuff in the problem that requires real thought remains manageable.
[continued even further...]
Thomas Taylor
>I have friends in STEM programs and even years later we will talk about stuff and they'll correct me on what I feel is "basic". can you give some examples of this?
Ryder Rodriguez
[continued]
>It just seemed so "simple" to me on the test and when I had to think it through in my head, I felt like a moron. That's the difference between understanding how fractions work on paper, and being sufficiently well-practiced at it that these things go on automatic. What that test is telling you is that you DO understand fractions on paper, but you are out of practice in applying that understanding to the point that these questions no longer take effort. You must practice them until they do, or you'll have hard time indeed learning the next step.
>The thing is, I don't know what "being good at math" means. It means being able to do all that practice *quickly*. It most definitely does *not* mean that you don't need the practice. All the math whizzes DO practice a lot, and it's that practice that allows them to understand each new step with minimal fuss.
>As for Algebra, I am not uncomfortable with it and I am fine with variables and maniuplating them. I only struggle when things such as radicals, formula's, coefficients, factors, asympotes etc get involved. I get overwhelmed with everything despite writing things down explicitly and showing my work. Then I suggest going one step back, and revisiting the pieces of math where these terms come into play, and practice them until you can read an exercise involving all five and solve it without too much effort. This will make your algebra work EVER so much easier.
Jacob Roberts
>I'm mostly nervous and confused because my knowledge is all over the place. I barely remember what a Quadratic equation or Trig is If it makes you feel any better, I'm a highschool dropout who didn't even know what the Cartesian plane was, let alone Trigonometry when I started studying independently at the age of 25, and now I'm comfortably studying Calculus. My point is, If I was able to improve with my severely limited knowledge, so can you.
Nathaniel Gomez
This thread made me feel better about my own insecurities in studying. I really hope the best for you OP.
Zachary Flores
For comparing fractions, multiply each numerator by the other's denominator.
if a/b > c/d then ad > bc same for < and =
For me it's the easiest way to do it mentally.
Jack Hernandez
Do an easier course first
Leo Edwards
>Any advice is welcomed. Thank you. Here's my some advice: work your ass off. Study, study, study, and then study some more. Commit to the philosophy of "learn math or die trying." You've got to be hardcore if you want to succeed. I'm not saying it is easy, but it is simple. It takes real determination and self sacrifice.
Robert Carter
Hey thank you for that multiply by the reciprocal technique, it could come in handy. >Radicals: I understand the concept of radicals, squares, cubes, etc. I often end up falling though when multiplying a radical to get rid of the symbol, that's just due to a lack of practice though.
>Factors: What's the difference between factoring(removing common elements) and factoring a polynomial/binomial?
>coefficients: I struggle to wrap my head around things such as drag.
My problem with Math is that I never feel like I'm making "progress" so it's very easy for me to fall behind. In other classes I at least have some interest or go off to research and learn more about a thing. But in math it's just a lot of grinding out questions, quizzes, exams and 50%'s. There's never a sense of "I'm going to retain this" because all throughout my academic life it's been "memorize this formula or concept" and it's likely used again in other math classes, but nothing else. I...don't care about math because I never use it in my day to day life(Basic algebra at best) and it's frustrating. The program I'd like to take(Medical Lab/X-Ray tech) requires a good understanding of math and physics as a weed out in the first year. Literally all of the people I know whined about the program but said that after the first year and in the actual job, there's no math whatsoever apart from basic calculations. The problem is that I like to invest in things that I can see a return on, and "having knowledge" or "seeming smart" doesn't equate with a better quality of life for me. I can deal with interest, loans, percentages, bla bla in normal life fine. I'm not becoming a nuclear physicist or statistician. The way I and many others look at it is, "I have to grind through this class, and then I'll be free from math". It's depressing.
How do I know where to "stop" at Algebra? That's my other issues with mathematics. All fields go on to infinity, but math literally does not "end".
Nathan Brooks
I was struggling with the quadratic formula and one of my friends who studied Biochem and another who studied Compsci both helped me out with it in our private group chat. They both had to stop and think about it for a bit, but they were able to recall it after a few moments while I sat there drooling.
I think a definition of math terms would help me in knowing exactly what it is that I'm doing. I'm definitely one of those people that asks "why" when working through something and it was all fine and dandy until highschool because the teachers would often just say "That's just the way it is" and I'd get more and more lost because I didn't understand the concepts, only the actions. I have no qualms about working hard. I just need help in knowing when to switch from Arithmetic-->Algebra-->Calculus. I'm always stressed that I'm "missing something" or that my book is "incomplete" and admittedly scared to move forward.
Dominic Lee
>Factors You mean factoring a number vs a polynomial? It's the same thing, you just have less information about the polynomial. Like if you had N = x^2 * y^3 * z, you'd know it had factors x, y, and z. If you knew the values of x, y, or z and they weren't prime numbers you could factor it further (if x =4 N = 2^4 * y^3 * z) If you have a number N = x^2 - y^2 the most you know without knowing x or y is N = (x-y)(x+y). If you have a ratio the one wrinkle is if you divide the numerator and denominator by the same polynomial and that polynomial has 0s at some value, then you are removing holes: points where the denominator is 0 and the function is undefined. Factors are useful because if you have f(n) = 0 and you know the factors of f(n) you know one of those factors is 0. same way x*y*z...=0 means at least one x,y,z... is 0 (and if any one is 0 the equation is true)
>drag All that stuff comes from advanced calculus. fluid dynamics deals with math you don't know in intro physics, so they do a lot of hand-waving that doesn't teach you how to figure anything out. think of the coefficients or formulas in engineering terms: they're just numbers that WORK. if you need to memorize, use flash cards and get them cold. the only "understanding" you need is qualitative: look at the formula for e.g. drag force and think about what happens if everything stays the same but your coefficient changes. as coefficient of drag goes up your drag force goes up : more drag.
Andrew Evans
>good understanding of physics that program doesn't require as much as you think (I think). if you're having that much trouble with the pre-reqs on your own just take a couple community college classes before starting, that'll help get you up to speed. the rest will come from working on the course homework, going to office hours, interacting with your peers. most people encounter roadblocks in college courses. the successful ones seek out help.
>How do I know when to stop? When you're able to do the work.
>quad formula biochem and cs have used it in their college courses. but you might have a bad memory, that means you need to work harder than some people. it's very easy to figure out if you know something cold, just test yourself without looking at your notes. you can learn the derivation by memory (write it without looking at your notes) if that helps
>scaredto move forward at some point you have to. if you come across something you don't remember, you always have your old books for reference. and using it will help reinforce it in your memory. this is practice.
>Why at some point you have to just work the numbers. science can never answer why, it can only give successively more fundamental explanations. why do atoms exist? why did the big bang happen? why are we here?
coefficients are an expression of relationships that we know. some of them are completely empirical and nobody knows how to derive them from anything. they're just facts as far as we know (or they're too messy to model from other facts). weight is a coefficient, it's a number that tells you how much force the earth's gravity has on your body. your weight can be derived from the weights of your individual cells or molecules or atoms or subatomic particles, or from their masses and the earth's gravitational constant (all coefficients) or from your mass and the mass of the earth and the universal gravitational constant (all coefficients). and so on. e.g. for friction you know intuitively that when you slide against a surface it pushes back and slows you down. how strong does it push back? well this depends on how much you weigh. how does this strength depend on your weight? it depends on how slippery the floor is (and you are). we measure how the force changes with weight and we call this the coefficient of kinetic friction for that pair of surfaces. and maybe at some point a physicist comes along and figures out what's going on at a microscopic level, but it's so complicated that it's going to be easier to use the coefficient. that's really all there is to it.
Jordan Peterson
Thank you user. You've really eased my fears about all of this. I started studying two weeks ago but stopped last week because it just seemed as if it was pointless. You're correct that the program I'm interested in doesn't have that much math/physics(just one class each) but they are there and I need to pass them before going on to year two. I'd like to become comfortable and fluid with mathematics for my own good as when it comes to learning, I have no trouble. Math for some reason just freaks me out, I look at the numbers/symbols and no joke my heart starts racing...it's like...literal fear. It's so stupid.
Nicholas Turner
*factors don't need to be whole numbers, just so we're clear 2 = 4/3*6/4 = 2*pi/pi are factorizations and could tell you something too
James Williams
yeah you need to build your confidence. that's happened to me before, it's like a panic attack, you need to take a few deep breaths and try to break down what you're learning, write it down step by step. practice will help. exercise, sunlight, office hours, study group will help keep you from getting too neurotic and will build confidence.
Luis Garcia
and make sure you get enough sleep. sometimes you need to put a problem down and just let it sit in your mind, or sleep on it. this is where good study habits come into play. you can't just assume you're going to be able to do your homework set or reading in one sitting, you have to weave it into your daily routine
Dylan Wood
if you are willing to yield anonymity I promise you I can bring you up to algebra II in about one month and probably get you started on calculus in another month
what are you willing to pay
Brandon Young
>scared to move forward the image above actually mentions this directly >what we know to be true: that to achieve a goal in learning, you must push past that goal to succeed so you are not the only one who deals with this. all of these undergrads (and me) who dole out such sage advice to you are much less secure in the knowledge at their own "level" of education. they have to work hard and struggle with understanding too.
Dominic Rogers
Bruh I just spent a ton on books and am broke anyway haha. Thank you for the offer though. Thanks man.
You've all been a good help with this struggle of mine. I'm going to just crunch through arithmetic and algebra 1 for now. I'll be back if I have any questions.
