Optical illusions exist

>How does this even tie into consciousness?
don't ask me, ask dennett

he's wrong actually. libertarian free will is correct

My biggest problem with Dennett is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and how absurd it is to think that the energy distributions on earth are random.

inbeforemuhsun

Nice platitude, Zhang. Does it help you feel free in your ant colony?

>The free will problem doesn't even exist in the East because they aren't total retards there.
You mean because they lack souls there.

oh cool

>insecure white bois

What's new

>libertarian free will

>I see the colour red
>therefore I don't see the colour red

>causality exists
>I have a working brain
fin

yeah that's how tiny your brain is for not thinking it's true

causality is just a concept we impose on the world so we can more easily understand it, we cannot truly know if reality is causal

He was right all along.

CAN WE KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL?

someone didn't read up on their cognitive relativism but he sure looks like someone who would

Yeah and parallelism is definitely a meaningful and true philosophical theory

yeah

optical illusions aren't really illusions, they're just perceptions that are often interpreted in a way most people would consider inaccurate. the fact taht we understand them well enough to create them proves they aren't really illusions

Does it matter? It still behaves causally. You would have to take a leap of faith and say God (or whatever) is makig things appear to be causal for some reason.

>the neurons in our occipital lobe aren't to discern complex patterns normally due to our innate instinctual response to seeing complex patterns in nature as being dangerous, or the visual correction of our brain doesn't compensate for radical or unusual differentiations in shape
>"LOL, that just means like.. consciousness doesn't xD, it's not like.. bro our perception of reality isn't limited to how our brains process it, REALITY JUST ISN'T REAL"
>"If I'm looking at it it doesn't exist"
>"Electrons can feel me observing them!"
>"Free will doesn't exist bro"
>"Lol reality and will aren't processes of our biology, they're actually like, super deep and shit"

How do you know?

>reality behaves causal, even if our perception of it isn't sound due to the physical limitation of our brain
>"lol bro actually causality isn't even real, cause our brains an shit just notice the pattern, Occam's razor is just a fucking sham bro"

His point is that causality is just psychological shorthand for a brain that needs to keep itself alive and exists on a given scale of existence. It often becomes unintuitive when we want to explain it. Causes are just correlations of events in space-time and even if we say there must be a mechanism, those are correlations too. I think the spatiotemporal contiguity part is even abit arbitrary other than maybe spatiotemporally contiguous events repeat more consistently. Epistemic problems come from not proving causation just from these correlations (e.g. third variables), intractaility and also naive induction.

The point is that causation is just a type of correlation. It is an intuitive one brute fact of observation and cannot be defined non-arbitrarily.

>The point is that causation is just a type of correlation. It is an intuitive one brute fact of observation and cannot be defined non-arbitrarily.
explain energy transfer then

is the portion of people born without free will predetermined to argue that free will doesn't exist?

No you explain it. What is energy? Why do particles behave?

>muh NAP

>the brain draws, sometimes incorrect, conclusions from sensory input
>therefore, consciousness doesn't exist
???

What are the causal properties of neurons that result in consciousness according to searle?

Functional integration amongst internal states that have a markov blanket. Given that though, the specifics also depend on the given intero and exteroceptive inputs.

>The looking glass is distorted

>Therefore I am the glass

[spoiler]Soul and consciousness are both unrealistic fairy tales, but you cannot prove they don't exist

If you are not the glass, who are you? A cartesian homunculus? Kek brainlet.

Protip: you cant prove matter or energy are a thing either.

Why is either of those needed for causality? We have real patterns. You explain energy transfer, which we consistently observe, without causality.

What exactly does causality add to energy transfer?

It allows it to occur. What are you even going on about at this point?

>confusing metaphysical libertarian with political libertarianism

thats what Dennett claims

A>A1>A2>A3>...AN>B
A>B

>mfw normies mistake a consciousness discussion for a free will discussion

>god gave us eternal souls
>but you can easily change someone's soul drastically and permanently by giving them a blood clot in their brain lol

My point is that you have no explanation. Its abrute observation derived by correlation. Jist the way you say it allows it to occur makes it seem like it has some independent existence. No.

Explain to me why it allows it to occur. Try for yourself. Explain to me what is causality. Maybe you will see my point.

See Explaination is not required.

Give me an explanation of that.

The pattern is real.

What pattern. Correlation is pretty much the definition of pattern so dont say that.

Now you are just being silly and are a 5 year old's manifestation of a skeptic.

Im seriously not. Tell me what you mean by the pattern is real.

Dude just think of how you would explain causality to someone without tautology. Its a correlation. And epistemically its intractable. Just useful.

Im being logical. Why dont you..

Reality is consciousness....fucking ametuers and if Consciousness didn't exist reality wouldn't without reality there is no universe... qauntum mechanics explain all this look it up learn it before arguing about dumb shit

qauntum realityis related toConsciousness. The brain is a physical organism that transmits electrochemical signals. These are explained by biochemistry and, ultimately, are related to the fundamental electromagnetic behaviors of molecules and atoms, which are dictated by the laws ofQuantum physics. but don't stress we are just a Mote of start dust in a sunbeam of space