I'm starting to realize we are the 4th dimension

No relevant to the claim being made in this thread. What does any of that have to do with time that isn't something every other duration having process also has?

they can think about time abstractly, plan about the future based on past experiences, inanimate objects can't do that, they are complete slaves to entropy

>he says it
>we have no perception of it being so

Your thoughts are the product of cause and effect relationships just like everything else. There's a reason brain activity isn't a part of the special relativity concept of spacetime, it's a high level procesd that has nothing to do with the fundamental ways spacetime functions.

>Your thoughts are the product of cause and effect relationships
i disagree that it's that simple, brains are extremely complex objects bathed in chaos with very many inhibitors build in, somewhere in there the consciousness emerges and that in turn can control thought and emotions downstream, all that self-interaction breaks simple cause and effect relationships

Nothing, but I'm not retarded enough to compare it to something as piss-easy as a microwave. Cleary you don't have consciousness figured out otherwise you'd be making bank on it instead of vomiting diarrhea on Veeky Forums

Consciousness is a property of the cerebral hemispheres not the entire brain, before we had a cerebrum our ancestors were as mindless as every other invertebrate on earth.

sure, but that wasn't my point

Wtf man are you a genius or something? I neve thought about that actually. I'm not ironic

I KNOW

OK, I understand the "is race real?" and climate change threads are here to contain the brainlets from /pol/, but what the FUCK is with the "time/consciousness/gravity doesn't real" threads?

did u just figure out time was considered a dimension or somethin brainlet

it's obviously not a spatial dimension so who cares, you are just rephrasing the obvious

The exact spot where you are right now is where the Universe began, and for the past 14 billion years countless particles conspired for you to exist, what a waste lol

Does that toilet has a pressure plate so when you sit the guy hugs you? Because I had this one great idea for a startup. Going to get my 40 thousand credit card with Microsoft, brb

The universe is also 'aware' of time and change in the form of causality. You're retarded.
Also, 3D refers to the number of spacial dimensions that exist in most cases. We have three special dimensions and one time dimension (four total).

>muh string "theory" 4th dimension
>not realizing the 4th dimension is actually spatial, and exists in a plane that we can't see
we're a 3d cross section on a 4d geometric plane

Everyone is a 4d entity iDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIIIIIIT

>and one time dimension
that you know

>We have three special dimensions and one time dimension (four total).
If there is only one temporal dimension, why does Marty McFly start the movie living near Twin Pines Mall, but ends the movie living near Lone Pine Mall?

>time
block universe
>consciousness
brainlets who conflate consciouness with free will or evolved fedoras who immediately associate consciousness with a soul/magic and reject it just as impulsively
>gravity
flattards

We are 5D

I like to imagine myself as a fairly long sausage stretching in the 4th dimension and what I experience in a given instance is a 3d human-shaped cross section of the sausage

>brainlets who conflate consciouness with free will
Thanks! I knew I was leaving something off the list.
Now go play (quietly) while the grown-ups talk.
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...
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Seriously, what's with the people on this board that get their smug sense of superiority from insisting time/gravity/free will/consciousness don't exist?
I'm assuming these are often the same tards that insist we live in a computer simulation, or that classical mechanics was somehow right all along... ANYTHING to believe we live in a deterministic universe.

Free will doesn't exist simply because you can't even begin to describe what it is and how it could work/exist

>Free will doesn't exist
Opinion discarded....

Seriously, any grown-ups in this thread?

Case in point.
Btw you're not good at trolling, you're not riling me up and are too obvious.

>free will doesn't exist

no u

What does your question have to do with what you're quoting? Ergo
>>>>>>not an argument

>you can't even begin to describe what it is
Ok, my last post was a little dismissive.
Theology has been offering several (often conflicting) definitions long before science got involved.
What you're really saying is:
>*sicks fingers in ears*
>"LA-LA-LA-LA-LA I can't hear you!"

Seriously. As long as a person is making decisions without excess constraint, they have free will.

>but, it's not really YOU making the decisions, it's the atoms in your brain!
>but it's not really YOU making the decisions, it's your genetic predispositions and the sum of your life experiences!

Nigger, what do you think a person is???
I AM the atoms in my brain.
I AM my genetic predispositions and the sum of my life experiences.

>b-b-but we live in a deterministic universe, your decisions are predetermined!!!
See:
>ANYTHING to believe we live in a deterministic universe.

For real though, am I just talking to myself in a man-baby containment thread?

Guys get back on the subject. Fucking dipshits

>reddit spacing
post dismissed

>>reddit spacing
>post dismissed
I've honestly never been to reddit.
But please, instead of a new ad-hominem attack, please try a different logical fallacy for your next post.

I can. Human beings have an ability to form abstractions. Some of these are pure, that is, have no reference to anything empirical by virtue of their high level of abstraction. The idea of infinity, a discrete quantity that cannot be unified through determination, is one such. It may have reference to a pure concept, quantity, but like causality, quantity in itself is a notion which is applied to material in an act of judgment, and is therefore not properly empirical like the idea of a definite quantity attached to an object, e.g. twenty oranges.

This ability indicates that human beings, though obviously living within and conditioned by physical laws to an extent, can choose their actions freely. In other words, we have recourse to a thing (a notion) that exists solely in the mind, by which we can arrive at a conclusion that is strictly undetermined by any directly material considerations. "Act as if the maxim of your action were to become through your will a universal law of nature," is one such conclusion.

The ability to act according to conclusions such as these is called "free will."

>complains about reddit spacing
>doesn't even know what reddit spacing means

Here's an example of reddit spacing for you:

The gap between your postnumber and this line of text is reddit spacing.

oh yeah, like a piece of tooth brush is itself therefore whatever happens to it, it ''willed'' it? or computers programs made the decision to do whatever i programmed it to do, but not really because it just felt like doing it?

>DUHHH DURRHRHH AAHHHHH MAMA HELPP HELEEEEEE ME PEE PEE POO POO IN ME MOUTH AGAIN

t. you

>h yeah, like a piece of tooth brush is itself therefore whatever happens to it, it ''willed'' it?

>computers programs made the decision to do whatever i programmed it to do
Then obviously YOU made the decision, and therefore possess free will.

Then using that logic obviously physical causes and effects in the brain made the decision, and therefore you don't possess free will.
There are really only two different interpretations here. One is the brain and your cognition are not exempt from physical cause and effect and free will doesn't exist. Or the other is free will exists but the brain and cognition somehow operate outside of physical cause and effect relationships.
Fortunately, the latter possibility is actually a legitimate falsifiable hypothesis you can test. The test is see if there are any cases, any cases at all, where the brain behaves differently than what ordinary physics would predict. If it does, then you can begin to possibly have an example of behavior the brain is engaging in which exists outside of the realm of physical cause and effect that's in need of a special new brain-specific physics to account for it.
As of today, no such findings have been made. Therefore the working assumption is that brains and cognition are physical objects and processes respectively like any other and don't exist outside the realm of physical cause and effect relationships.

BTFO
T
F
O

>We can't infer from our knowledge of physics that free will exists, so we must infer the opposite
the absolute state of logic in the Year of Our Lord 2018

Find one example of the brain behaving in a way different from how physics would predict and you can begin to have a possible basis for arguing the brain operates outside the realm of physical cause and effect.
It's not like there's a shortage of empirical evidence recorded on brain function. Get to it, go find one example. And if you can't do that then stop peddling pseud bullshit.

nice try user. 4d usually implies 4 degrees of freedom in space. Alas there is change in 3d. this is not a spacial dimension but a change dimension. furthermore youre a fucking idiot for believing we exist in 3 or 4d. we dont exist in any dimension. we create them. user, when we look out into the world and see order and stability it is simply a narative we force ourselves to believe. it's not the world we see, it's ourselves.

No one with any kind of intelligence would claim that free will violates physical laws. That's idiotic. We will never find the kind of evidence you seek, because it would be contradictory (i.e. you want a physical process that violates physical law). What people who do understand the possibility of free will claim, is, that human beings can make free choices. Some variety of compatibilism is the only reasonable option. Humans obviously function within the laws of physics but can act strictly according to their own will, autonomously, and and may choose to not act heteronomously, in accordance with something outside of their will.

>BTTF is actual science
>Stephen Spielberg is some sort of fucking astrophysicist

We don't have free will because free will is a concept that was never feasible in the first place. It is at its root paradoxical.

The idea of free will that we are talking about here is that we can make our own choices free from any outside influence, correct? Except, every choice you've ever made has ultimately been decided by a culminations of factors (e.g the morals defined by childhood experiences). Hell, simply recognizing you can make a choice in some matter has influenced you before you've even made the decision, as you have blindly rejected the possibility of this being a dichotomy where choice be irregardless. The only entity that could get close to operating under free will would be one that dictates its choices by random.

So when people say you don't have free will. don't get upset. its overrated and impossible (again outside of randomness)

Yes. Hello.

Perhaps you should all type using a QWERTY style and type properly?

My name is Simon. Hi everyone. How are all your other 4D 'identities' doing? I've found just swapping it/injecting it into my 'first birth name' just as valid an approach.

I'm just excited to see others here.

Are you all ready to stop dying?

Yes, knowing you are conscious before naming your 'time door' Simon.

My time door : Simon, Now I invite you all to speak as befitting your forms.

Yes, you might accidentally make my head explode. That is okay. People will just abstract it to some sort of 'newspaper headline' tomorrow and Jacinta will revive any damage done.

Time is the one word that cannot be translated perfectly (without abstraction)
Consciousness is left by the last soul who knew how to reach (You)
Gravity is 'solus gravtias'

They are all real, through abstraction upon 'Anonymous' posting not as Anonymous.

The fact that anyone in my 3D reality feels like they need to be 'Anonymous' for any positive feedback loop to occur is literally 'psychosomatic insanity'

However these days all humans have a baseline schizophrenia, sociopathy, and autism. And hands.

I am 33 years old. By the laws of all lands, I am an adult.

Kum-kum the kookaburra elder here.

Only once. I have to do this sort of 'cleanup' approach.

Us exists independent of we or I

Trans gender identity: "Nobody ever taught me to look down and expect anything other than the ground to meet me."

If human behavior is within the realm of physical cause and effect, then free choices aren't being made, at least not any more so than a computer program is making free choices.
You can claim what human brains do still counts as "free will" because of compatibility, but then you lose your ability to argue computer programs are just following predetermined courses of action because so are human brains.

Cool. So we all talk to Solivagus Computer.

Solivagus Computer is Simon's

Simon's computer is serving up all the data we could ever want.

The 'more' is in Veeky Forums /b/

The rest are for 'sensible social sluts'

If we gotta have a 'secret society' it may as well be Veeky Forums, "Where nobody is anonymous!"

If I operate such that my will, however it may be physically determined, nevertheless takes direction from nothing other than itself, I feel justified in calling that will free. "Man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills."

But you are neglecting the fact that this idea of physical cause and effect is exactly that, and for all the supposed determinations you can make about how a human will or will not behave the fact remains that all of these assertions have at the base of them an idea, which cannot be accounted for within any deterministic framework. The best you can do is say, "well, there's a correlation between this idea and this certain electrical pattern in the brain," but that is very far from saying "this certain electrical pattern produces this specific idea." Even the four fundamental forces are really nothing more than mere ideas at this point, until anyone is able to explain precisely what causes them, or if such a conception of "cause" is even applicable to them. And until anyone can do this, I think a healthy compatibilist skepticism is warranted. It's absolutely premature to invest your belief entirely in determinism.

Is this your preferred delay periodicity? If so, I with my waking eyes accept it.

I just don't know how to tell you guys that I can turn every word I read into a receipt for 1 granted wish.

>If I operate such that my will, however it may be physically determined, nevertheless takes direction from nothing other than itself
If it's physically determined then it isn't actually taking direction from "nothing other than itself."
>Man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills.
Just because Schopenhauer says something doesn't mean it's true. He also said you inherit your intellectual capacity from your mother for example. What you need here is actual physical evidence that you can't explain any one (1) specific detail of human bodily function and behavior through physical processes like electricity or chemistry alone. If you can't do that, then what is your Will concept even adding to the equation here? You're trying to impose an explanation that doesn't make sense for a problem that doesn't exist. The very least you can do is find an actual anomaly first, some specific instance where physical explanation isn't accounting for something in a person's physiology / behavior. Some reason why you need to apply this Will explanation in the first place. And out of the massive body of results collected on the physiology and behavior of ourselves and basically every other known variety of animal alive today, I don't believe there has been a single issue of that nature you can point to for justifying Will as an explanation for any part of it.

I know this makes sense to you, but it doesn't make sense to anyone else user and it's not profound because it communicates no information. An enlightened genius cannot define his teachings as being summed up by the word "blargle" and just say it to people and expect them to understand. Similarly, if you have insights, you must describe them in language understood by others. You have schizophrenia and no, not everyone else has a baseline amount of it.

Much like Donald Trump, Elon Musk, or Plato.

I gave you an example, that is, thought. You're putting much faith in a completely scientific explanation of thought, which would still be explained on the basis of ideas, which are abstractions. And then, whenever these ideas are explained on an empirical basis, there will then be a further ideal system which will explain the new "facts," because you cannot have an understanding of something without a general notion that has universal validity. There will never be such a thing as "perfect understanding," if this means providing a merely physical basis for all ideas.

Again, the fundamental forces are really empirical ideas. We only know to say that they cause something, but we can't as yet say what causes them. This is the nature of the empirical regress of causation, that it will never be absolutely completed. To put one's faith in strict determinism like this is a dogmatism that denies the relevance of the ideal.

I'm guessing, aka talking out my ass, but I think we're living in a universe with 4 spacial dimensions and 2 time dimensions (one being imaginary time) which is compressed by a black hole to resemble 3+1 dimensions. This would make the shape of our universe as a 4D hyper-sphere. However, it's possible that the universe that contains the 4 dimensional black hole, actually exists as 5 spacial dimensions with 3 time dimensions, and it may go even further than that!!

Now you start adding time dimensions on top of time dimensions and the possibles in the universe start expanding exponentially in inconceivable ways. With exponentially infinite possibilities it may be possible that while matter can't escape a blackhole that doesn't mean information or the sum total of our consciousness can't. Maybe someone found a way and it's possible for the conscious to be connected to the outside of this 4d blackhole.

You and I are both using computers, therefore neither of us really believes everything is just an "idea." If you really believed that you wouldn't respect the non-negotiable fact you're not going to get on the internet without a machine that can do networking. You also probably don't try to heat up your food just by staring at it real hard. You use an oven or a microwave, which again betrays the fact you know fully well there's a difference between just any old abstract idea vs. complicated physical systems that are required for you to accomplish the tasks you want to accomplish.
>perfect
Perfection was never required. Just "better" is enough to discard what's worse. And better is in the direction of what works. The physical approach to building computers like the one you're benefiting from work. If you build out the electronics correctly and put together an architecture that makes sense, you can get a computer out of the process. Chanting and doing a ceremonial dance while shaking a Peruvian Amazon gourd rattle isn't going to work. Doing so will not make a computer appear.

I never said "everything" is an idea, I'm saying that ideas are necessary for there to be such a thing as a fact. Here is an instance of an idea at work:
>If you really believed that you wouldn't respect the non-negotiable fact you're not going to get on the internet without a machine that can do networking
If you didn't understand the concept of convertible identity you couldn't make such an analytic assertion. The empiricism you hold so dear would be absolutely impossible without a system of ideas to underlie it and give it form. Ideas like causality, identity, infinity, and so on. The "physical approach" to building computers, as you call it, has required quite a lot of abstract ideas in the form of mathematical ones throughout the years.
>You also probably don't try to heat up your food just by staring at it real hard.
>Chanting and doing a ceremonial dance while shaking a Peruvian Amazon gourd rattle isn't going to work.
Please. Are you deliberately misunderstanding what I'm saying?

>required quite a lot of abstract ideas
"Required" is exactly what they aren't. The ideas let people know what they were doing, but the physical processes themselves don't care what ideas you have. If they did then the vast majority of personal computers wouldn't work because most users have no idea what actually needs to take place for them to operate successfully. What's "required" is the physical processes happen in a way that gets results. And when they don't work that way you don't even know why at first, your ideas about it only catch up to physical reality if you're lucky after some troubleshooting to figure out what happened.
>continental vs. analytic meme
You should try making your own arguments instead of throwing around ideological buzzwords. I don't think you even have a clear idea of what your position is because you're so buried in abstract philosophy here. As near as I can tell it's something along the lines of "knowledge isn't perfect, therefore this bullshit is equivalent with non-bullshit." You seem like you don't even want to be understood and you're using vague and noncommittal descriptions as a strategy to maintain plausible deniability of your argument not working.

The fourth demenion is when you know yourself too the degree you can understand how the universe works

The fourth demension is when you know yourself too the degree you can understand how the universe works

>you can't see into the past
>What are memories

technically you can interact with time because we are aware of it and can adjust 3d space to some degree to get what we want out of the future.

Yes. I did. Stephen Hawking + Simon Cosgrove

Our middle names both begin with t.

I should have been clearer, I meant libertarian free will as any other kind of "free will" is not free at all.

Except that you can't, that's an illusion.

Please delete that.

Why does awareness of a dimension matter if you can't control your movement along that axis?

How is that an illusion? If something in the universe alters my perception and I use that knowledge to make a choice that's different than I would have had my mind not been altered, blah, yes, how illusion?

that's a kludged 3D way of accessing time though

> hold within themselves workable abstract models of the entire universe

bullshit. physics is only possible because we write.

Yeah those thoughts and realizations are cool and all but they stop getting so exciting when you realize that we still live in this human realm it doesn't matter in the slightest as we are still governed by this micro/macro world (depends on how you look at it) and societies rules.

This life goes on despite what we may uncover about reality.

I'd argue that you can't travel through time thus it is not a dimension in a classical sense. However consciousness, like encrypted computer data has 0 dimensions and is a meme/experience like a shadow on reality caused by attoms structuring themselves in such a way that they generate a conciousness. I don't think we're 4-d op, I think we're 1d memes.

you arn't viewing the past you're experiencing memories which may or may not have happened. fucking brainlets honestly

>'m starting to realize we are the 4th dimension
Without even reading the thread (I'm sure it's full of bullshit, I'd like to say that there are definitively 3 spatial dimensions in our universe and SOMETIMES it makes sense to think of time as sort of dimension (even though time is immeasurable with a unit length). Humans are 3DPD but happen to experience a thing called the "passage of time." The POT, from our perspective ONLY ev

>time is immeasurable with a unit length
what exactly is a clock then? sure, it may not be perfect, but nothing is

I meant "time is incommensurable with length".

But user, Quantum Mechanics is deterministic. we don't need to make shit up

Change in 3D space is measured along time. When you take change in 3+1D there is no longer a dimension along which the change can be relative to so 4D spacetime is changeless.

relativity tells us time and length are inextricably linked, moving faster through space means you move slower through time, they are part of the same basic thing, we can never experience that though because we have mass