Why is physical reality so depressing?

ITT: edgy 17 year olds who think they are smart

>t. psuedo-scientist/psuedo-philosopher

Depends how you classify "you", you massive faggot

How can one be a real Philosopher instead of psuedo one?

lmao God is the requisite for determinism, physics are already proven to be non-deterministic. Git gud

>there are people that unironically believe in determinism
What's the fucking point? It doesn't even make a difference and you'd actually have a better life if you believed in free will.

fpbp

t. underage babbies who just found out about determinism

Because life is just matter like any other matter, with no special meaning or purpose. It just so happens that our matter has this weird property of suffering/experience, but that doesn't exempt us from the same indifferent destruction that affects everything. The difference is that we care that it affects us, whereas an eroding cliff face or a dried up river doesn't and can't.

By not deriving your philosophical viewpoint from pseudo-science.

determinism has no impact on the existence of free will, if you don't realize this then kindly leave this board

It's stupid to think of it as a choice. If you lose an arm in an accident, can you choose to believe you still have the arm? Maybe if you're severely delusional, but for most people that's just a fact to accept, not a belief to choose.

Never post again

No such thing as physical reality. Physicalism is a metaphysical commitment and merely a relative truth, not an absolute truth.

because my stupid girlfriend is a twit thats why

You can't control the external events, but you can control how you react to them.

"you" is merely a delusional observer, it's the processes in your brain that dictate your actions and reactions

Physics is deterministic, fix your education.
Quite the contrary, free will is impossible without determinism.

>"you" is merely a delusional observer, it's the processes in your brain that dictate your actions and reactions
what the fuck am I reading

>No free will.
I never got the free will meme. If your actions weren't entirely defined by the ruleset that is "you", your actions would partly be random, or at least outside of your control. How is that better than having full control?

>>>/brainlets/

>Physics is deterministic, fix your education.
No it isn't, it's probabilistic

The Universe might be Non-Deterministic...

The processes in my brain are me, so yes, I dictate my actions and reactions.

You won't look smart if you insist on your ignorance.
To the best of our knowledge it isn't.

ITT: People who never read Kant

>it's the processes in your brain that dictate your actions and reactions
then you're the brain you fucking retard, or are you gonna claim that "your brain" wrote that and you merely observed? that's the dumbest fucking thing i've ever read

>free will is impossible without determinism.
no, free will is impossible regardless of determinism

QM is inherently probabilistic, you can't draw a difference between the micro and the macro.

No they aren't. Also they have no volition, they are just physical/chemical processes hence no will.

No, you're not the brain. And yes all experimental evidence agrees that the choices your brain makes happen before "you" become conscious of them, "you" is merely an observer imbued with the delusion that it's making the choices and driving the machine. Why are you so upset? It's easy to tell given your infantile writing that you don't belong here.

>No free will
There is probably no free will but why would you let that affect your life? You still got your senses. Pro-tip: social contact is underrated. You can actually use the knowledge on the effect of environment on general mood (which then affects everything) to your benefit.

>The selfish gene
As a scientist (probably bio or popsci or so it seems) you should know that the material world progresses as it does and the rest is up to interpretation and speculation. There's multiple reasons to altruistic and one is egoism but who cares. Does it edgily stop you from being altruistic?

>Life has no meaning hurdur
Stop reading edgy popsci, mang. The world at the smallest scale is cool, on meterscale it's too (esp. because of life) and also on the 10^9m scale is okaye. You have to get over these things after your teenage years, but that probably will, no worries.

>Why is physical reality so depressing?

jews.

luckily it's limited to earth.

and always will be, until the earth is destroyed.

or something happens to the population on the earth.

>luckily it's limited to earth
No m8, jews will control the next planet we will live in.

It was determined they will

They work the same indeed, and both are deterministic, see evolution operator. QM is governed by math, and math is as deterministic as you can get.
Mind is process in brain and will is behavioral pattern in mind, so it's obviously a process in brain too.
It's just a limit of reflection, subconsciousness is "you" too. It doesn't really matter how it reflects in consciousness if the result and process are consistent with person's beliefs.

On the other hand QM is irrelevant, decisions clearly depend on the person, which means causal connection.

Do operating systems have free will too?

>probabilistic
You have no control over the outcomes of the probability. Free will gets rekt in all interpretations of QM.

jesus brainlets like you piss me off so much
free will is impossible regardless of determinism or indeterminism, what difference does it make if everything you do is predetermined or determined by chance? you don't have free will in either case

That's what I'm saying, retard. Learn to fucking read.

>forgot about the interdimensional-jew
stay sharp

>The Selfish Gene
>because human existence occurred out of a random chance in nature
These things are mutually exclusive, but that was your goal, wasn't it? Certainly a lot of people took the bait.

The absence of "intention" is not equal to the absence of "purpose" ;) Apart from how loosely those two words are defined, this is clearly a non sequitur. And why would "Give your life your own purpose" be depressing? Its the most empowering thought i could possibly come up with.
And apart from that... "Has a random component" does NOT equate to "is absolutely random". E.g. i do not consider it random that something thinking originates in a universe with all the required properties for it and lots of time, even though it might be "random" that it's homo sapiens and not homo neandertalensis in our case or that it just happened to happen on earth and not somewhere else.

Free will is defined relative to personality and interests, it's difficult to identify interests of operating systems. If they have then they could.
QM can do both, in practice it looks like in case of free will QM provides causal connection between a person and his actions. Apparently uncontrollable processes have little to no effect on it.
You can have free will if your actions are deterministic. Rather free will requires determinism to exist.

The fact that you have to resort to a watered down definition of free will to have any argument at all is evidence enough that it's bogus.

>causal connection between a person and his actions
Literally what determinism is.
>uncontrollable processes have little to no effect on it
"little to no" doesn't mean none.
>You can have free will if your actions are deterministic
How can you have free will if every interactions in the universe is predetermined to happen in an exactly precise way since its creation?

>QM is governed by math
It's only represented with maths within a model.

but all that shit has been obvious to everyone their whole lives senpai it aint depressing its just reality .

An ability to act according to your interests. It's as meaty as you can get, straightforward and right to the point. Also the only one that makes sense.
>"little to no" doesn't mean none.
At least negligible. You know you can tunnel through a wall? That kind of effect.
>How can you have free will if every interactions in the universe is predetermined
You assume laws of nature are a constraining factor. That assumption is factually wrong. Without them you wouldn't exist in the first place, and nonexistence is not freedom.

>You can have free will if your actions are deterministic
jesus christ, if I can predict every single one of your future actions you still claim you have free will?
kys

>negligible
Holy fuck. No matter how you spin it, it doesn't change anything.
>You assume laws of nature are a constraining factor.
They are. I can't really fathom the point you're trying to make.
Explain to me what degree of freedom do you recieve from the fact that everything you do or think has been predetermined to happen in this exact way it does since the beginning of the universewithout you having any control over it.

>Life or human existence has no real meaning or purpose because human existence occurred out of a random chance in nature

Anthropic principle.

We occupy a necessarily privileged existence within a Many-Worlds (MWI) event field. If it were not "privileged", no one would be sentient enough to sit around questioning the mystery of our existence...there are too many variables in our cosmological and biological models for us to arise by "chance", unless every chance were possible and we're within the boundaries of the tiny subset of possibilities that allows us.

What's the point in calling universe deterministic if nothing within it cannot determine its future state. It is like saying that you have algorithm that solves halting problem, but it takes infinite time to get the solution.

>Many-Worlds
Take your pills
>sentient
"Sentience" has no bearing on physics since you're still made of simple atoms. Many worlds memethesis is also deterministic which means you cannot be sentient by definition.
>there are too many variables in our cosmological and biological models for us to arise by "chance"
Not an argument. Survivor's bias.

I'm not really against you believing in wrong memes, you just look pathetic when you try to convince others in them.
>No matter how you spin it, it doesn't change anything.
What doesn't change anything is neglecting negligible factors.
>Explain to me what degree of freedom
Obviously more than in nonexistence. The point is that you have wrong assumptions and derive wrong conclusions from them and try to use them as argument, but it's a weak argument, that's the point.

It's about principle. It's obvious we'll probably never be able to account for all the forces acting on a macroscopic object. The point is that if determinism is true, you are fundamentally physically "scripted", like a simple turing machine. This depresses the average brainlet because he's been fed individualism since day one.

>Take your pills
You flatearthers are laughable.

I'll make it simple
>quantum interactions are probabilistic
>quantum interactions form the macroscopic world
>thus, the macroscopic world is probabilistic
Or
>If A=B and A=C, then B=C

>Obviously more than in nonexistence
OK
>free will in nonexistence = 0
>free will in deterministic existence = 0
Or
>If A=x and B=x, then A=B

>wrong assumptions and derive wrong conclusions
Such as?

>flatearthers
Wait, what? I'm saying that the Everett interpretation is a meme.
Can you even read? Are you retarded?

That's what flatearthers do - coming with retarded screeching, get debunked and later return with the same screeching.

What are you talking about?
Nobody is talking about the flat earth garbage.

>macroscopic world is probabilistic
It doesn't change anything because it's negligible, you can't make it simpler than this.
>free will in deterministic existence = 0
Based on wrong assumption. Are you trying to to convince me that nonexistence is better than existence?
>Such as?
Such as zero free will in deterministic existence.

Flat earth is ok, what's not ok is repeating screeching.

>Survivor's bias.

"Survivor's Bias" is exactly the point.

This isn't just a plane crash where one person miraculously survived out of a hundred...the unlikelihood of our existence can only be expressed with exponents.

Our universe could be nothing but dull, non-reactive particles, or only hydrogen atoms, or only hydrogen and helium nebula never coalescing into stars, etc. etc. on up the ladder until you get to the biological level, where the dinosaurs did perfectly well at the top of the food chain without any sign of intellectual development for hundreds of millions of years.

That level of infinitesimal chance lends credence to the Anthropic Principle, which necessarily implies the MWI. Copenhagen (the most widely accepted interpretation of quantum weirdness) is just the cautious approach to MWI.

Reality isn't depressing, you are depressed and probably bored.

>negligible
NO SUCH THING
>Are you trying to to convince me that nonexistence is better than existence?
I'm only trying to convince you the amount of free will you have in both is 0. The physical world also cannot be "better" or "worse".
>Such as zero free will in deterministic existence.
Ok, explain to me how you get this magicall "free will" in a deterministic world. I'm very interested in how you managed to reconcile the two.

Widely accepted interpretation among applied scientists is "shut up and calculate", which is not even a model, the second is MWI (mostly among theoretical scientists). Only uneducated brainlets believe in copenhagen, because it's self-contradictory.

>MWI
You do realize that Everett interpretation is base on nothing other than speculations, right?
>infinitesimal chance
Chance is irrelevant if Everett is right since many worlds is deterministic. You can talk about chance only in a probabilistic system.
>Anthropic Principle
It implies sentience. And scentience cannot exist by definition in a probabilistic system, since everything is "scripted".

How do you even know what COULD be? How could you possibly know which possible configurations of laws and fundamenta constants our universe could have? this is literally impossible to know^^

>MWI
>lmao guyze decoherence crieytes other unverses en shiet mang totally sure bout it bruv
>proof: my ass

Tasteless != Bitter

You are the problem OP

>NO SUCH THING
Well, there are macroscopic uncontrollable effects like in the schrodinger cat experiment, but superposition of macroscopic states is not what you mean? Every macroscopic state in superposition is still properly deterministic.
>The physical world also cannot be "better" or "worse".
I think existence is better than nonexistence. Why would you argue for nonexistence if you don't believe it's better?
>Ok, explain to me how you get this magicall "free will" in a deterministic world.
If you didn't have wrong assumptions you would easily understand this. That's the very reason to not have wrong assumptions, you just fucked yourself with it. Even a nigger should be able to understand this much, it's really trivial.
Freedom from yourself, from common sense, from existence is meaningless, be free from everything else, there's nothing to reconcile there.

>in a probabilistic
*in a deterministic

MWI is only expression of QM math to ease intuitive understanding. Decoherence does propagate superposition, fix your education, flatearther.

QM is probabilistic.
>Why would you argue for nonexistence
I'm just saying that it's equivalent in the amount of free will it has to a deterministic system or namely none nada zero 0. I'm typing the exact same shit for the third time you retarde faggot. What is so hard to understand?

>Freedom from yourself, from common sense, from existence is meaningless, be free from everything else, there's nothing to reconcile there.
That whole construction makes no sense. Type it again, this time, potentially, including some physical arguments. You are not on /pol/.

As I said
>proof: my ass

>QM is probabilistic.
If the observer sees his lovely cat dead he will be sad deterministically. What's uncontrollable there is superposition of the dead and alive cat and the corresponding state of observer, but the observer is deterministically entangled with the cat in each state of superposition. Since pure states are not governed by superposition, they are not uncontrollable, they behave as if there was no superposition.
>I'm just saying that
But you literally meme for nonexistence, you can't deny it.
>Type it again
It make no sense to be free from some things, but it makes sense to be free from other things.

Proof is QM math, and you can't just get away from it, dumb flatearther.

>math(s)
Such as?

You mean you're not talking about it now, but will talk about it later?

Can you even understand math?
Example:
Suppose we have a double slit experiment, a flying photon and a detector near the right slit:
(|left>+|right>)|detector>
After detection:
|left>|detector>+|right>|detected>
As you can see superposition propagated to the detector as its state decohered during interaction with the photon.

Because you are made of trillions of cells and 1.5 million of them die on average per second. Poor little things.

:(

>But you literally meme for nonexistence
You are the one who bought in "nonexistence" in the first place. The discussion is about the physical interpretation of "free will", not metaphysical drivel you brought from /pol/.
>shrodinger's cat
Popscimongler, please spare me.
And yes, QM is probabilistic. Particles have a wave probability function.

>It make no sense to be free from some things, but it makes sense to be free from other things.
This makes even less sense. The point is that if you have a direct cause-and-effect chain, starting from the big bang, you cannot actually be "free", since your brain is part of this chain as well and your actions are already determined at the start within the whole system of chains. Thus determinism is the utterly exact opposite of free will- basically total order and predictability.

How does a photon decoherence imply a new universe is created?

>No free will.
This is not conclusively proven. Maybe we have free will, maybe we dont. Why do you care either way? If the illusion of free will is persistent enough, is it really any different that true free will?
>The Selfish Gene.
Why the fuck do you care what other people think or do in relation to you? Who gives a fuck? Do drugs, fuck sluts, and blow shit up. Enjoy yourself.
>Life or human existence has no real meaning or purpose because human existence occurred out of a random chance in nature, and anything that exists by chance has no intended purpose.
Speaking as a true nihilist, your life needs no purpose. If there is no reason or purpose for our existence, then the only thing that matters in the entire universe is how you experience it. Do whatever you fucking want. It dont matter, none of this matters.

>This makes even less sense.
You want to be free from everything including existence? Then why do you insist that it's me who brought in nonexistence? You're a liar or your thought process is probabilistic just like you believe. What is the meaning to be free from existence?
>Thus determinism is the utterly exact opposite of free will- basically total order and predictability.
That's only a consequence of your wrong assumption that laws of physics are a constraining factor.

Decoherence of the detector's state creates two independent states of the detector that are independent of each other as they were in different worlds.

as if*

>your mum loves you because she is programmed to
These are some hard truth bombs

And I'm programmed to have it feel good and i do