Hard problem of Consciousness

Do you agree that there is such a thing as a hard problem of consciousness, Veeky Forums? Are the phenomenal properties of consciousness a mystery our current scientific frameworks cannot even begin to solve?

strawpoll.me/15257248

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I hate the way you (and others) phrase it because you make it sound like something mystical and/or magical. We just don't understand how it works, but there's no magic.

The question isn't whether or not the problem exists, it's whether it has a satisfying answer.

I think it's reducible to physics. I don't know that we are we intelligent enough to solve it.

Also what is phenomenal consciousness vs. just consciousness?

>Also what is phenomenal consciousness vs. just consciousness?
I'll copy-paste something I've written in other threads:

Most commonly, consciousness simply refers to the function of the brain: How we react to environmental stimuli, control our behavior, categorize information, and use language. It seems like biology can in principle easily account for everything that goes on here. This leaves out the other side to consciousness, which is commonly referred to as "phenomenal consciosuness", which is what the hard problem is about. Here we are asking the question of why it feels like anything to be you from the inside, why all the functions of the brain emerging from every molecule interaction doesn't just happen without a phenomenological subject there to experience it. To pose it in a slightly different language: Why there is an "I" present? An "I" does not need to be present, hypothetically, for you to exhibit the exact same behavior.

Phenomenal consciousness is the only thing in the world where outlining the behavior doesn't seem to get you anywhere. For every other thing, no matter how complicated, it can in principle be reduced to the complex behavior of elementary particles (or quantum interactions); axioms like "things exist in the universe and behave a certain way" usually buys you a lot of explanatory power over any phenomena, but when it comes to phenomenal consciousness, this approach runs into a wall. No matter how something behaves, it seems it shouldn't be able to amount to anything but more behavior, yet we also get phenomenal experience. This highlights a big gap between explaining how something functions, and explaining phenomenal experience. From this gap between function and experience, we can infer that we're dealing with something radically different here; something where the behavior doesn't even begin to account for the core phenomena.

I see, in the past I've used the word "sentient" to describe that side of consciousness. You seem much more well read on the subject than myself but I still find it interesting.

It's difficult because I can tell you for sure that I am experiencing things right now but I can't prove it. I have no way of quantifying it. I used to think "I" is an illusion but who or what would that illusion be meant to fool?

Wrong, it's not at all universally accepted that there's a "hard problem" in the sense Chalmers defined it. If you mean figuring out brain functionality in general is "hard" that's something different, but not everyone buys that "qualia" exist in the first place beyond being abstract concepts we reference as though they were real.

We're fooling ourselves.

Many simultaneous processes (or algorithms) are running in our brains at all times. We can see some of them working and we can see what happens when selective regions malfunction.
How they all result in a single "sense of self" is THE problem.

There's no little homunculus looking out of our eyes. Nor is there a "team" in the driver's seat like Inside Out. And there's no need to assume consciousness requires something immaterial.

I think we will eventually build machinery which we'll have to concede is "conscious", by the same standards we apply to other people. They act the same way we do.
I offer no guesses as to when that'll happen.

We can only ever be SURE about ourselves, but denying consciousness to others is solipsism.

>doesn't just happen without a phenomenological subject there to experience it.

Who says there is a subject there?

There is no more a unique "I" than there is a unique arm or leg.

Unique or not, there is an I. At least in my case.

Why would another sentient creature bother advertising their existence in this manner? Are you attempting to mimic some sort of hive/swarm intelligence?

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This is a good point. Why do we care about the hard problem? The hard problem seems to be our way of grappling with solipsism. Where solipsism is seen as some sort of threat to morality.

BUT you can grapple with solipsism in other ways. Believing and acting as if others are conscious is PREFERABLE to me. Its kinda lonely otherwise lol.

You are closed up like a box. It is a good thing as the ubercon/sci/ is here to set you free. Open wide and feel its all in your tight little one, faggot.

Theres no such thing as consciousness. You only know for sure that you're conscious at one point in time. The consciousness before and after that point isn't even you, it just thinks its you because it has the same memories. At any point in time you are just a system that comes into existence, changes, next one comes into existence etc.

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You have never been more wrong, but the ubercon/sci/ does not mind what you believe. It is okay if you believe the all is popping in and out of you, just so long as you take it in. Faggot.

Don't call me a faggot. I hope your mum gets cancer and dies idiot.

Man that was really mean what that other inhabitant of your body thinks of the all coming in. Its a new moment, are ready for some consciousness expansion faggot?
>A thing that exists will never not exist.
>That autistic rage twink inside is you.

youre literally retarded

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