Deep Space Gateway

international "cooperation" is a joke, and a recipe for endless delays + unfinished products.

A proper rocket & space program doesn't cost much, and any major country can self-fund it. Europe's & USA's lack of space programs is a sign of our decadence, not a need for pooling funds.

a meme

because >international "cooperation" is a joke, and a recipe for endless delays + unfinished products.

>A proper rocket & space program doesn't cost much
you fucking nigger, the ISS is built on Mir2 foundation, which already existed, and third of the station was made in Russia and another third of the parts supplied by JAXA and ESA members and it still costed 200 billion dollars

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>Lack financing, will, and expertise.

Financing yes. But they have more will and expertise than NASA.

ISS was extremely overpriced in order to fund corrupt pork programs for politicians and justify the Shuttle (the most expensive launch vehicle ever made). The real cost of ISS is a mere fraction of what was spent on it.

A lunar gateway could make sense, assuming it is located in Lagrange 1 and used as a propellant depot and a staging point for reusable lunar lander, and constructed at a reasonable price and timeframe. Considering that DSG is in a weird orbit and does not even include a lander or a depot, and also suffers from endless delays and uses expensive SLS rocket, it is nothing more than a jobs program, a blatant scheme to steal public funds. In other words, business as usual in spaceflight industry.

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This. It is obvious to anyone with a surface-level understanding of orbital mechanics that the DSG is useless.

this is how a 21st station should look like, not that shitty tin can

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It is just a good lab for experiments and long term training. There's no real reason to have it as a waypoint since that is not a very efficient role for Delta-V, unless it is creating fuel on the moon and storing it at the station for refueling craft. It could act as a life boat for aborted/failed manned missions on the moon. Unfortunately, I think it is probably a grant chasing scheme. It is so utterly useless because it won't have a dedicated function that will actually advance much of anything we don't already know. There's barely any new tech in it or anything new going to be done.

We need dual purpose stations. Places that get shit done with applied science and engineering. Like making fuel, resource extraction, etc while having space for actual science projects like ISS has now.

Yes, we should get on that ASAP. Heavy shielding and spinning.

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We need to be able to get resources from space rocks and process them in space. Getting stuff from Earth into orbit is very expensive.

We need Moon bases and asteroid mining.

We need a president who can take charge and kick NASA in the butt. The government should reward NASA and private companies for being efficient.

I think we should throw a few of those giant Bigelow inflatable stations and add in docking capabilities. Build something that will be of use in 100 years.

unfortunately it is congress, not the president, that controls NASA, and the only thing they are interested in is money flowing into their districts

It's not actually called the Deep Space Gateway anymore, the new administration has renamed it “Lunar Orbital Platform – Gateway” (LOP-G). I actually prefer this name, as calling a space station that just orbits the moon a 'deep space' anything is incredibly ironic,

>Don't talk too much about Blue Origin though, they are shaping up to be just another old space company .
Bezos wants to offer Amazon Prime in space. Might need to increase the membership cost by a dozen orders of magnitude.

>calling a space station that just orbits the moon a 'deep space' anything is incredibly ironic,

deep space usually refers to space beyond Earth orbit

Lunar Orbital Platform – Gateway is a stupid, awkward name anyway

just call it Lunar Gateway

Dems are stonewalling everything
So all it takes is 1 Republican saying "nope" to an appointee, and thats over

It isn't going to happen.

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I don't think it is even a grant chasing thing
I think its just some paper justification for the SLS that they never intend to actually do
Just like they pretend the Europa Clipper could fly on the SLS

"Science" is just a meme, it should be an afterthought at best

Well, it's really just a glorified space truck stop.

>Doesn't have a closed loop life support system
>Doesn't grow own food
>No attempt to prototype rotation for artificial gravity

Literally zero reason to go to this shitty place.

Surely the main point is sending space craft from orbit rather than from Earths surface?

>There's no real reason to have it as a waypoint since that is not a very efficient role for Delta-V
Finally someone said it.
Even if I too think it's basically useless there is a new thing though, contrary to the ISS it has to be built resistant to cosmic radiations and solar eruptions.
That is no trivial task and it's a tech reusable anywhere else in solar system.

When will they quit fucking around and just use the stargates already

There will be neither refueling nor constructing facilities at this place. No infrastructure of any sort. It will just be another campsite in space, like ISS but more so.

>zero reason
Giving something to the SLS&Orion to do is reason enough. What else is there?

Maybe the plan is to build stuff on the moon itself?

Not so fast spacecucks. What makes you think this is a legitimate project when the ISS clearly isn't? youtube.com/watch?v=BJZ9sqvH9dY

Redirect a very small near-earth asteroid into Earth-Moon L5 and experiment with asteroid mining and in-situ processing.

>I think its just some paper justification for the SLS that they never intend to actually do
So what is SLS actually going to do then? I mean I get that it's all a shitty pork program and all, but the idea that it will never even fly or do anything is just too absurd.

NASA only does small baby-steps. SpaceX wants to skip straight to Mars. I just want a real space-port and really get stuff started. Fuck.

Oh it'll fly. It'll do the same thing the shuttle did, except further out. Launch every so often, fly in a loop around the moon, and come back.

The shielding is never a problem though. It just means more mass being launched into space to do it correctly. Unless of course they plan to get mass from something off-world. Mining would be something. Otherwise, there's no new tech going on for any of it.

It makes no sense to stop partway there first.

That is because NASA is completely filled with old grant chasers. The more they can wring out of it the better for them. SpaceX is headed by new money that will do flagrant things and just happens to be able to back it up.

NASA: "if we work this right we can create many new and stable jobs while making more money"
SpaceX: "let's throw this at the wall and see if it sticks, because that would be cool"

So are they bringing stuff to the Moon? Just flying around it doesn't do anything?

>So are they bringing stuff to the Moon?

I wouldn't count on it.

>Deep Space Gateway
>not suited for deep space exploration in the least, also humanity has no ambitions or chances to get beyond Mars in the foreseeable future
I fucking hate these factually incorrect, sensationalist names.

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Needs to be a torus.

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A magnetic field with the average strength of a fridge magnet could shield it from most ionizing radiation.

L4 or L5 would be better. L1 requires station keeping.

L4/5 is a bit more of a long ways away though, not just glorified stationary Earth orbit.

That isn't its actual name. The official name is, "Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway". It is just that Kathryn Hambleton wants to spice up things and make them sound cooler than they are.

Actually the station keeping requirements at L1 are very low. Even less than the orbital boosting for the ISS. For a long term city-size habitat you'd want L4/5, but for a working waypoint station L1 is fine.

I really think that NASA will never have a spinning anything.

highfrontier.com/

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Not really. A lot of radiation is blocked by Earth's atmosphere. You still need a lot of thick mass to negate the same amount of radiation even with a magnetic field. In the end, you are basically trying to put as many hydrogen atoms between you and the outside as possible to try to prevent things from going through that loose net.

Cost
Do the math on how massive a minimum sized one would be, and calculate how much it would be to launch it all into orbit
We need more infrastructure first

I pretty much gave up after at the point when you were supposed to put police stations and schools down as if it were a strip of Suburbia on Earth. No space station is ever going to look like that. The somewhat realistic overall design function is probably the best part.

I stopped after the initial design phase of the station itself. The SimCity stuff isn't worth doing and it is rather in depth.

>you are basically trying to put as many hydrogen atoms between you and the outside as possible

Only if you're a virgin who relies upon passive shielding. The true Man of Space uses active magnetic shielding, augmented with plasma walls, to deflect protons (which are what you're worried about anyway).

NASA is about as good at following through on its missions as a heroin addict is of staying off the junk.

When you think about it, even as late as they are, even fucking SpaceX is better at keeping its promises than "we're going to mars in 30 years, we promise!" NASA. I'll take my chances with them and the BFR over the fucking SLS and this extraneous bullshit vaporware space station.

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is this for zero g blacked porn?

>they are shaping up to be just another old space company .
They want to build 100ft diameter rocket after New Armstrong.

>international "cooperation" is a joke, and a recipe for endless delays + unfinished products.
This, look at joke of ITER, James Webb Telescope and ISS.

Christ, if you don't know shit about this, stop posting ITT.

>is this for zero g blacked porn?
They will explore
Blacked Holes
and probe Uranus

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sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576514003798

You could try reading, for once. Maybe active shielding isn't the way to go, but blindly saying "shielding = putting hydrogen atoms in the way" is misleading.

The SLS has no plans to do anything before 2030 at the earliest
At which point it may have flown 4 times
After wards no payloads have been funded or started working on yet

The SLS is not even going to be as "good" as the shuttle, since its more expensive & will fly less.

Again, if you don't know shit about this, stop posting ITT.

>stop posting ITT.

Your sad devotion to passive shielding will be your undoing. Examine the choices you are making.

Super lame. Design phase is nothing more than sticking a bunch of solar panels on one of the standard designs, after which it becomes a very shallow sim city clone.

Why do they hate artificial gravity so much

there is no funding for this project so it will never happen

>electromagnetic shielding

You are a complete fucking retard. This isn't some fantasy bullshit LARP.

Do you really think NASA will do that? They won't. It will be a private company that does it. That's because NASA is now a bunch of grant chasing, job security huggers.

It may be even true, but where do you think private companies like spacex take their money from?

NASA is like a financial firm now, what do you expect asking me that question?

Because it invalidates half their "research"

>nasaspaceflight.com/2018/03/cislunar-station-new-name-presidents-budget/
did anyone read this the other day? it's a detailed overview of the current status of the station. it also comes with some nice pics, like this one which shows the size difference between the lunar gateway and ISS.

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I hope the ISS survives until at least 2028. Yes the ISS is old but it may take awhile before commercial space companies get their own station in space. Until then we should keep our presence in LEO.

>isn't it time we actually stared building some serious space habitat?
My guess is that this will happen starting in the mid-2020s to mid-2030s once the BFR and other super heavy lift rockets are available. Space should be really affordable by then for the organizations wanting to launch their own space stations.

>A lunar gateway could make sense, assuming it is located in Lagrange 1
It's not going to be at any Lagrange point, but I expect that we may see stations at all of the points by the end of the century. They're just too convenient to not put something there.

>NASA only does small baby-steps. SpaceX wants to skip straight to Mars.
And China is doing baby steps to the Moon too. It's good that we have multiple paths being taken towards space colonization because it reduces risk: if one path fails, a different path may succeed. I wouldn't be surprised if NASA ends up losing both the ISS and LOP-G when the next president comes into office, so I'm glad we have other options available to us if something like that happens.

>not suited for deep space exploration in the least, also humanity has no ambitions or chances to get beyond Mars in the foreseeable future
That's the long-term role of the DSG. It's supposed to act as a space port for spacecraft visiting places outside of Earth orbit (see pic). For instance, a Mars-bound spacecraft would dock / refuel / repair / etc. at the DSG. The DSG is supposed to fit both short-term and long-term plans that NASA and other space agencies have been interested in.

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>this

i want to be one of the players in the space game.
Infrastructure on the moon followed by Asteroid Mining.
Using SLS and whatever elon musk is accomplishing. Maybe even Virgin Galactic.

What are Lagrange points?
>currently 2nd yr mech with aero
>started Fundamentals of Astrophysics 2 years ago, got to page 17, and hit a math barrier.
>went to uni and am now hoping of understanding the book when I have time

Because its kept as future research.

Elaborate

More like a consulting firm than a financial firm as they know the dos and donts

By real you mean in your imagination only. Unless you have a detailed plan to identify wasteful expenditure of the past, apply the patterns to current and planned expenditures, and then prevent it.

>spend forever studying the effects of microgravity on lifeforms
>lmao lets just make gravity and fuck up the only thing that brings us funding

It's fake and gay.

>Unless you have a detailed plan to identify wasteful expenditure of the past

Well lets see, don't use the most expensive launch vehicle ever made ?
Theres no point attempting anything in space without cheap launch
That is the basic building block of any station or lunar base

>you fucking nigger
angrydog is angry

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>ctrl + f + axiom
>0 of 0 match
Axiom plans their own commercial station, but by first attaching the modules to the ISS like Bigelow and NanoRacks are doing. It's run by a former ISS manager and has some initial funding, but unless they get more funding it doesn't seem like it will make it.

axiomspace.com/

When it comes to private space stations, I think we're going to have to wait and see if the ISS commercial modules prove economically viable. I just hope that we don't kill off the ISS before the companies can figure out the economics.

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youtube.com/watch?v=Dx3FPiHqG8U
thread theme.
*fap*

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>my face when i designed a pod based space station that looks very similar to this when i was 16. I should have paid attention in school. I coulda made my orbital hotel dream a reality. Thank god for Veeky Forums.

for now it's still expensive, if spacex built a cargo version of the BFR or ITS it would bring payload costs to a minimum while allowing a massive amount of cargo to go to space

Fuck NASA or the ESA, make something profitable and exploration/ innovation will follow. Find something other than the pursuit of knowledge out there worth a damn then, and only then, will we expand to the far corners of the galaxy.

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What should the government do, then?

So asides from Mars, what is SpaceX going to give us?

So is it something that we will need eventually? Can it be expanded into something more substantial?

>you fucking nigger
why the racism?

If the next POTUS is Mike Pence, the policy will stay the same. Minus talk about space militaries.

Destroying everything else that could benefit from the money they are stealing from our taxes.
Private companies should be banned. The government can do everything better.