Vegan: eating things that have sensory perception is wrong

damn, nice japanese death quads

look up meta-ethics sometime brainlet

And OP, I don't think Penn is a vegan now because of ethical concerns about killing lobsters and shit--it's because his health was fucking horrible. He was having to have an ambulance crew at his shows to give him O2 in breaks between tricks because he was so out of breath. His doctor told him he wasn't going to live to see his kids graduate high school, so he had to make a drastic change...and he did.

meant for quadsboy

Look up "The Simpsons" sometime, fucklord.

I just posted him because he's the original trashman and it kind of makes more sense to post thin-Penn given the subject matter

Explain your point instead of telling me to read up on an entire philosophy. This is a brainlet argument

yeah, it's cool. His story is pretty interesting, though. He wrote a book about losing all that weight quickly and in a healthy way.

He basically went to a 100% potato diet for a few months, then slowly transitioned to vegan. He's pretty clear in the book that it's about what foods he finds appealing now, and not because he's worried about the suffering of clams or whatever.

the morality of a behavior isn't based on whatever the current practicalities of the situation happen to be. In this case we're discussing how sentience effects the viability of creatures for eating. That has nothing to do with some contrived doomsday scenario no matter how plausible it might be.

and even proceeding from your scenario, we could still say things like pigs are too intelligent to be farmed for food

I work in healthcare, doing xrays and CT scans at a hospital. Seeing very obese patients is both sad and disgusting. Like, sad, because they have all these health problems and complications that are 100% avoidable. I mean, seriously. If you're way overweight, it makes every aspect of your healthcare more complicated. It's harder for the anesthesiologist to figure out how much of a drug dose you need. It's harder for the surgeon because he's got to go through 8 inches of tissue instead of 4. It's harder for the xray tech because your fat makes for more scatter in the image, which means the pictures are foggier--and then its harder for the radiologist and surgeon to see what they need to see. And then after all of that, it's harder for your CNA to help you bathe because you're less mobile and have all these folds of tissue that need to be cleaned.

And it's disgusting because it's 100% preventable. Much of it is a question of self-control...and what isn't is stuff that can be helped by your doctor.

So yeah, when I get a 1400+ pound (not really sure, because the built-in scale maxed out at 1400 lbs) patient, it's really, really hard for me to work up a lot of sympathy. 100 years ago, you'd either be dead because the doctors had no idea how to control your rampaging diabetes, or you simply wouldn't be that big because there'd be no way you could get that many calories a day to get to and maintain that weight. And dude, don't tell me it's some sort of metabolic thyroid issue when your family members are telling me you can eat 3 bags of potato chips and an entire bucket of fried chicken during an episode of The Walking Dead.

What's immoral about animals being raised for slaughter if they can't possibly comprehend their fate and are rendered unconscious before slaughter? You sound like you're confusing sentience with sapience by the way

fat people are disgusting

Some plants have sensory perception. Some are even capable of motion.

So why would it be any different if you did this with a dog? What if you just kept breeding people in an unlit room and gave them zero stimulation? Oh hey cannibalism is ethical now, cool.

I had the option to try horse sashimi and an izakaya the other night, and I wretched at the thought, then politely declined.

Was I right to do so? Not sure I'd even eat it cooked, but raw sounds horrendous.

It wouldn't be any different with a dog. People dont eat dogs because they give fuck all meat. Animals are naturally only sentient, yet you're comparing that to forcing sapient humans into being something less than human. If you are under 18 at the most ill excuse your stupidity but if you are any older you should consider suicide

>muh sapience

You give humanity way too much credit (you're surely a Christian, right?). A human entirely deprived of mental stimulation is just as dumb as an animal.

What does that have to do with you thinking forcing a human to be as dumb as an animal to be raised for slaughter is just as morally righteous as raising dumb animals for slaughter?

I don't because I'm saying there is nothing fundamentally ethical about eating any meat as far as I can tell though I'm still going to keep doing it. Your argument was basically blindsiding the thing you're going to eat makes eating it ethical. We're not even on opposing sides because I would love to have a firm ethical standard to substantiate meat consumption but "Spot is my best buddy" isn't going to cut it.

You seriously don't know what you're saying, or at least the implications of it. How old are you, serious question?

youtube.com/watch?v=q-KUbflnMEs

So, technically, you just eat everything at night or in places with no lighting?

>How old are you, serious question?

This is never a serious question

That show was like 30 years ahead of its time

I would eat people if it was easier to get away with.

I am a vegan and i would eat some people.

>horse
Horse sausage are pretty good
>dog, cat
99% not breeded for consumption, also carnivores, so probably bad tasting
>person
Possible prion contamination, like Kuru

you're the problem with Veganism as a community

No, the ultra-vegan guy was referring to eating algae and yogurt.

Plants have sensory perception tho

So do you, and I'd eat your ass like groceries.

Plants don't have a CNS and are certainly not sentient.

Yet they still respond to stimuli. They're not fully sentient, but neither are they unfeeling.

their also willy, that chlorophyll smell that plants release when cut or picked? yeah that's a signal to predators that here be herbivores

There was one person who weighed 1400 pounds and they died in 1983. Your scale is miscalibrated, dumbass.

What about the argument that our population is too big and the amount of farm land needed to maintain livestock and cultivate crops to feed said livestock is becoming/has become destructive. Not to mention the amount of co2 produced by livestock is hurting the environment. So one way to reduce the impact of these global issues without drastically reducing the human population, is for everyone to be vegan so we don't need so much farm land and so much livestock?

>Veganism

On my list of shit I don't tolerate and moving higher the gayer they get. At this point I wouldn't even tolerate an employee being vegan, let alone a friend.

Careful not to cut yourself

>eating things that have sensory perception is wrong
Let's consider the life of an average cow or chicken. They seem lack self preservation or determinaton as they are unable to survive in the wild as they are domesticates animals. That means that if we we're to release the population of cows and chickens into the wild they would die of starvation, or by generally being dumb fucks. So what can we do about it? The species itself is designed for consumption so the only thing we could do is also artificially select the species into something that CAN survive in the wild, which neess to be done in a way to don't disturb the local ecosystems. This is not something we know how to do.
>argument for marginak cases, you wouldn't kill a down syndrome do you?
No, obviously not, but mental retardation is not equivalent to a cow. Consider however a human in some sort of vegetative state that will die if left alone. I would consider euthanasia a viable option which shows that in marginal cases you can have humans that is morally correct (or at least it could be argued) to terminate their lives.
What are things we can do?
>Use humane ways to kill them and also secure that they don't live in agony for prolonged periods of te if it can be avoided
>Reduce our consumption of red meat so that farmers don't have to chop half our forests.
>Think the argument for more intelligent and social animals such as pigs

Normal person: I won't post the same fucking tired old thread on Veeky Forums because that would be retarded.
OP: HERF DERF COCKS COCKS COCKS

I love watching that 600lb life show just to see those "I don't know how I got this way!" fucks as they cram an entire pizza down their maw hole.

id eat horse, dog, cat or a person if it was prepped correctly

>mfw a vegan or whatnot will never, EVER reach this level because veganism by defintion is malnutrition

...

>anti-Vegan: Eat whatever you want as long as its not a person
ftfy

Some plants have demonstrated sensory perception. Molluscs have not, to my knowledge.

I'm waiting for an episode where the doctor just starts beating someone with his golden stethoscope.

Just because something has had some positive effects doesn't mean it was right though.
It's like arguing that slavery was right because it allowed America to develop and grow faster as a country

Are you retarded? Snails are a mollusc, all you have to do is poke them to see that they have perception

>anti-Vegan: Eat whatever you want as long as its not a horse, dog, cat or person
No, eating horse is totally cool with me. dog too, if done humanely. Why would you eat cat though? it tastes bad and has parasites

yes it fucking is fuck you.
we'd eat horsemeat every christmas night on some bread and it was delicious.

used to be like a few percent of english ground beef until just recently. id only wish id known before hand so id be able to savor it

>humanitarian: eat whoever you want

yeah and it's your fault that this ridiculous idea that horse meat is bad was created, cause your media likes to scaremonger. Horsemeat is much nicer than some low quality cow

thats because the only horse you enjoy is the horses we breed, feed and sneed, you pleb.

nah, shitty workhorse shot and ground up is still great

it's penn jillette after his all potato diet - I wish I were kidding

>vegans are better than you, everyone!
>not a vegan btw :^)
>reddit spacing
Ya know what really gets peoples' attention? Suicide. Try bleeding out in a public place while crying about oppressed livestock.

>I wish I were kidding
why?

wow, i dont remember this in the rear window

Why is eating pussy and horse forbidden?

gotta skip the middle men, no point having you between chad and stacy

>implying colonialism was wrong in the first place

...

>I'm not a Vegan but I don't see how anyone really has a valid argument against them.
I'm not a vegan either but I can respect them even though I disagree on how to fix certain issues. I think cultured/lab-grown meat and other animal products is a better solution than trying to turn everyone vegan.

Loving every laugh when underage b& faggots get btfo

You're an utter faggot, you don't "see" shit.

I don't eat what I respect.

penn is not a vegan.

that is a fine take to have but (as a vegan) i find it hard to believe that you can't reconcile your moral beliefs with your food choices. if you really believe something, you should practice it

Fuck fat people.

real anti-vegan: do i really give a fuck about what you eat?

that's the real difference there, kiddo
also, your pic is very related to our instance

horse is delicious. most people dislike it because it's fibrous. you can make great stews or sausage out of horse meat. you people just don't know what's good

Why do people still engage vegans? This militant cult has been doing this bullshit for at least 20 years still don't just immediately ignore them.

Because that would hugely increase the cost of meat.

max goldt rules

This. Not to mention, older animals tend to be tough & the meat doesn't taste very good.

Valid argument: human beings have carefully cross-bred cows, chickens, and pigs for the sole purpose of not going hungry. For thousands of years, people went hungry, until we figured out how to have a reliable food supply. We've figured that out, and cows and pigs and chickens taste good.

Humans are the top of the food chain on the planet Earth. Fuck you cows and pigs and chickens. If you had the brains to eat us, you would.

Hell, just talking about it, I'm tempted to eat some venison chili, or go to Ted's Montana Grill for a bison filet, rare as fuck, with lots of onions and mushrooms.

it's a dog-eat-dog world, and we happen to run the planet, and have established ourselves as the top of the food chain. Why wouldn't I eat a deer that shits on my property, or smoke the ribs of a baby pig that eats my scraps? It's nature's garbage disposal.

So you have no desire to be better than animals who just follow instincts and have no morals?

>smoke the ribs of a baby pig
Because the saturated fats are killing you and filling the minor vesicles of your brain with atherosclerotic tissue scarring making it so that you think "fuck you cows" is a valid argument against a moral argument of doing no harm. "we can, so therefore we should". Literal meatheads, everybody. You can also kill yourself, and I hope you do.

>Potato Chips and soda aren't Vegan

All of us are dying, all the time. Will you somehow stave off mortality by just eating lettuce all the time? Look at a pig. That pig is going to fucking die. It's mortality is an absolute fucking fact. That pig can have thirty-minute orgasms to produce more pigs while it's alive, but wouldn't it be wasting the resources that our caveman ancestors spent ten thousand years developing?

The whole history of human beings is agriculture, and that means domesticating animals too.

My biggest gripe is that most vegans narrow it down to a nervous system and feelings from it etc.

The topic doesnt put humans at the top of the importance list, it works only with what we understand which is why mussels and plants are a contentious topic in vegan discussions.

>alien race visits earth
>we are causing them pain to their nervous system by simply existing
>its ethical for our species to die
>its the correct choice to self genocide morally
>we will never achieve what they have and we cause them pain
>so die

Or

>aliens visit and have no nervous system
>its moral to kill them because they dont feel pain
>have no damage receptors
>terminating their life is morally the same as terminating a plant

The topic of the discussion needs to not be about the nervous system, and instead be about people. Because something feels pain is not a good enough reason to not harvest it. That is why we still do. Because someone in a coma who is paralyzed and cannot feel anything still has value is because they are human.

We like animals that have a companionship to us and assist us. Its a human discussion, not a nervous system one. Its all emotional - people try and make it scientific but eating animal products is strictly a positive for your diet (talking about options and variety of potential nutrient sources - not a debatable topic). So scientifically and without emotion we should be setting up more and more animal farms. Emotionally this is disturbing.

Personally I only eat fish but dont care about animals. If you own a dog feel free to beat it, its not human and you own it. I wouldn't kill nor eat most animals because I feel bad. My feelings should have no weight on what you are allowed to do.

im a non vegan/vegetarian and i am aware of different eating habits in different cultures.

eat cats and dogs all you like, i´m from western germany we used to eat horses (until it went out of fashion)

Vegan: eating things that have sensory perception is wrong

anti-Vegan: Eat whatever you want as long as its not a human in a non survivalist setting.

vegan food is the true patrician food, it's expensive, hard to make and only a few people want to eat it.

Horse is great. Still eaten around some rural parts of Europe. Would love to try dog and cat.

>Because someone in a coma who is paralyzed and cannot feel anything
nope

sane as deer isn't "good"?

root vegetables don't cast a shadow...neither do factory farm meat.

veal and potatoes.