Mfw I realized vegans were right all along

>. But as the tech advances it'll get cheaper to produce high quality meats too.
While I agree that is technically possible, I don't think it will happen. That was my whole point, really. Look at what's happened empirically: we could use genetic engineering to make our vegetables tastier. But we didn't. Instead we got bland (but cheap!) produce. Likewise we could use modern technology to raise tastier animals. Again, we didn't. We chose breeds and feeds based on rapid growth and maximum conversion rate (price). I don't think this will play out any differently.

>> the issue is of needing to kill an animal at all.
I understand that some people have a hangup about that, but I don't really understand why. Any and all living things survive based on the deaths of others. It is impossible to avoid killing other things to survive. Even going 100% vegan results in the deaths of animals. I realize that some people might feel better about buying "lab meat" instead of old fashioned meat, but it's really all in their heads. Animals are dying so that they may live, it's just that it's not as obvious to them.

At least post a picture of a fucking face.

>we could use genetic engineering to make our vegetables tastier. But we didn't. Instead we got bland (but cheap!) produce.
Probably because lack of food was a bigger problem for so long that it was more important to have a constant and steady food supply than it was to make food taste better. You can still get heirloom breeds of produce and animals if you really want it, they haven't disappeared.

>Even going 100% vegan results in the deaths of animals.
Their argument for this is that it results in less deaths, so it's still better. I'm sure if they could do something that resulted in 0 deaths, they would. Death is natural and yes, we have to kill things to survive, but that doesn't mean it's good and that we should be okay with it. If we can reduce the amount of death or even eliminate it in the future, I think we should.

How many people would eat meat if they had to do the work themselves? From buying a young steer and raising it for 18 months, up until the point that you slit its throat and feel it's warm blood gush onto the same hands that fed and cared for that same animal. Hardly anyone. Most people hide behind the old right hand not knowing what the left doith. It's easy to talk about the macho aspect of meat eating when the real work has been done by people you've never seen and refuse to acknowledge. No wonder biology gives these same people cancer.

This.
Eating reasonable amounts of quality meat from local/"ethical" sources as part of a balanced diet >>>>vegetarianism/veganism

>It's easy to talk about the macho aspect of meat eating when the real work has been done by people you've never seen and refuse to acknowledge.
Yeah and it's not like they're wrestling a bull and killing it with their bare hands like they want it to be, they're usually fairly docile animals (compared to their wild counterparts) being stunned and then having their necks cut open while stunned, it's not some rough fight they're winning.

>Yes goy, stop eating perfectly nutritious natural food that's perfectly digestible, forget about all the essential animal fats, and eat some non-human food instead that will just ferment in your colon giving you cancer and will realease terrible insulin for you.

Vegetarians/vegans are the most disinformed people in terms of nutrition and the most anti nature people. Enjoy your mental illness though.

Godmode: Raise and slaughter your own meat and eat it only occasionally

>Slit it's throat and feel warm Blood
That's fucking disgusting. I would shoot the poor bastard in the head at the very last, just to save it the pain of bleeding out

Lol are you just trolling or serious? More and more articles and scientific research comes out each day how the healthiest diet one could possibly have excludes all animal products.

It's literally unrefutable. Enjoy getting triggered by vegans and being salty because your taste buds jump through hoops to rationalize your diet.

I admit meat tastes good, but do some research.

>excludes all animal products
*needs supplements*

But user: we have and do use current tech to breed tastier animals. Mangalica/mangalizza pork, for example, is fucking phenomenal. Bresse chicken is beyond delicious. Tunis and Katahdin mutton and lamb are both delicious.

The problem isn't that it's not there: it's that consumers don't want to pay the higher prices associated with good meat. Why pay $8/lb for Bresse chicken when the Piggly Wiggly sells [indeterminate chicken breed] $2.99lb? Why buy mangalica pork at £15/kg when Tesco has [indeterminate pork breed] at £6/kg?

No, the studies show that healthiest diets are high in veg, not that the healthiest diets exclude meat.
The best thing to do is to eat like my people eat: lotsa veg, a little bit of animal products, very little meat and a little bit of grain.
I hear Americans eat around 300g of meat a day, which is baffling to me since we eat only 500g of it per week.

Yeah keep believe his so called "research" funded by the sugar and carb industries, some of the richest companies in American. Just look up how much money companies like Coca Cola donate to universities for so called "research".

The only supplement you need is b12, but we give b12 supplements to farm animals too, so the only difference is the animal ate it first.

Have you looked up how many studies saying meat is good for you are funded by the industry?

It's literally illegal to call eggs "nutritious, good for you, healthy" in advertising now. That's why they use phrases like "the incredible, edible egg" or "a powerhouse meal"

But enjoy being fucked by animal agri execs like a good goy.

>we give b12 supplements to farm animals
Source

>Have you looked up how many studies saying meat is good for you are funded by the industry?

What the fuck kinda logic is that you mentally ill vegan? I just put into question the objectivity of these studies and you want me to use them to support my argument?

You just need to study basic nutrition to understand that there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate, that there are more than 50 nutrients that you can't find in non animal foods, and that our stomachs and digestive system simple aren't meant to eat vegetables.

And I have nothing to do with animal agri since all my meat is local and fresh. I buy it from the farmers myself.

>But enjoy being fucked by animal agri execs
>Execs who manage animal derived products are scumbags, but fruit and vegetable execs are a-ok
Vegetarian mindset

>our stomachs and digestive systems weren't made to eat vegetables

Except it's the other way around you giant retard. Our digestive tracts are over 3x as long as natural carnivores and omnivores, which is more suitable to vegetables because the meat would take longer passing through and putrify.

There is nothing about our bodies that makes us natural omnivores.

>Defending the biggest and most powerful industry on the planet that gets subsidies from the government, and saying they're the same thing as an industry that gets none of that.

Source about how we feed b12 to farm animals, this is fucking common knowledge.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11285643/

Your people?

>tfw born vegan and untainted by sin

I thought instead of imbracing Genetically modified sutff, we got the OMG EVIL GENETICS PLAYING GOD scare bullshit?

>as a fetus you consumed the produce of your mother's body

Nigga, all food combined isn't even the biggest industry on earth, never mind the meat subset of it.
The biggest industry, depending on how you measure it (percentage of all business, highest revenue or highest margins) is either oil, alcohol or pharmaceuticals, each coming in globally with over a trillion dollars annually in sales (with alcohol being the highest earning). Pharma has the highest margins. Oil has the largest market share.
Food altogether, including meat production, dairy production, egg production and farming combined, isn't even in the top ten of any of those three measuring methods, never mind animal-sourced foods on their own.
Stop. Making. Shit. Up.
This is why no one takes vegetarians and vegans seriously: because people like you spread outright lies and make us all look like nutters.

> no one takes them seriously

Meanwhile the number of people going vegan each year has been exponential. The facts and science speak for themselves.

>Our digestive tracts are over 3x as long as natural carnivores and omnivores
Most people could stand to eat less meat but we still are omnivores. If you're saying we're supposed to be 100% herbivorous you're wrong, and some people being able to digest lactose past infancy is an obvious clue that we're meant to consume some animal products.

A lot of vegans say they'll eat meat again once cultured meat is available too

I unironically live in the state termed "at least you're not ____" and some of the most redneck troglodytes are going vegetarian and pescatarian, I kid you not. It does seem to be penetrating into even the darkest corners of the US. Strange really. From what I gather in conversation it's because their wives quit eating meat and they just don't want to deal with the hassle anymore for the sake of a regular fuck.

if only so many vegans weren't so insufferable

im pretty much completely vegan except for eggs

someone redpill me on why i should stop

Really?

t. egg industry shill

Except we have a small colon too, unlike herbivores, and we do all our digestion in our small intestine, which in comparison is much longer than the other organs, not to mention our cecum is almost non existent. Also eating raw meat is the most digestible food for us. Other than wild fruits; are there any other natural(wild) non-manmadw foods that you vegans can eat raw?

But keep living with your vegan cult like mentality you ignorant piece of shit.

Your brain has shrunk to the size of a pea...

If you like them then why stop? They're a decent source of protein and whatnot. Only thing you should be concerned about is your cholesterol intake but since you don't eat meat or milk you should be fine.

Vegans are faggots and so are you.

Lab grown meat is fine since it doesn't involve the exploitation and killing of animals for no reason.

>doesn't mean it's good and that we should be okay with it
Moral relativity, go fuck yourself.

I've slaughtered my own ducks which I raised from the egg, not that difficult once you put your mind to it.

Yeah but why would you if you don't need to.

So why only care about animal suffering? How about human suffering?

Don't you care about all the humans who suffer living in Banana Republics? Don't you care about the humans suffering and dying due to the exposure to pesticides in order to grow your food? Don't you care about the earth in general and how much organic farming and the vegan demand depletes the soil to irrevirsebile levels?

>moral relativity

*Crippling autism

I don't know what you think they were right about, but I will consent that I had a moment of clarity when someone pointed out to me that if you ate meat raw or boiled and unseasoned you'd probably hate it too (sushi being the exception)

that gave me the idea to roast my veggies with some seasoning and damn, now I like brussel sprouts

some things are still OK steamed

>Other than wild fruits; are there any other natural(wild) non-manmadw foods that you vegans can eat raw?
Fruits, vegetables, nuts. What else would you possibly need? Fuck legumes and grains.

It's cool that your feels inform your positions on diet but you're just empirically wrong.

>natural and perfectly digestible

Tell me again how humans have adapted to drink raw milk.

Source is the B12 comes from unprocessed water and the average person doesn't have that readily available in Western countries for good reasons. Farm animals are not capable of producing B12 endogenously.

Just get your own chickens? It's super fucking easy and there's no need to mistreat them to eat the eggs they are going to lay anyway.
If you want an argument as to why you shouldn't buy eggs: just goolge any video about what they do with male chicks.

Not even a vegan, but lol at the amount of logical fallacies in your 'argument'

>rainwater isn’t readily available in western countries

Yes, it is not readily available. You don't have it on tap and most people can't find a place to buy it from.

>someone pointed out to me that if you ate meat raw or boiled and unseasoned you'd probably hate it too (sushi being the exception)
If you're talking about meat from an average grocery store, then yeah. But I've had really high quality and extremely fresh beef that had an incredibly appetizing, almost sweet smell to it when it was raw.

>mfw i realized hebrews were right all along

Raw milk is legal in my country for decades and nobody got sick. Just be more careful with it, like not drinking it after 3-4 days.

By just drinking it. There was no mass death involved otherwise it wouldn't have stayed. At worse people had diarreah but that doesn't prevent you from drinking soda after all.

And maybe you should go buy your meat from a legit butcher instead from some processed brand. Too expensive? Well nobody said you have to absolutely eat premium cut everyday for every meal. You can substitute it with other sources of protein such as cheese, eggs or cheaper cuts/meat such as chicken.

Veganism is a passing fad that appeals to self-righteous white people looking to feel like they made a difference. You could get the same benefits with any other diet simply by increasing the greens consumed and ensuring your products were made/raised ethically

Problems with raw milk mostly come from contamination with cow shit or something else, not the milk itself

I'm never going to eat that shit
It can't replace all the cuts of beef, chicken and pork I use for cooking

>I'm never going to eat that shit
I expect a lot of older people to feel the same way because it's such a drastic change, but that younger kids will be more accepting of it because it'll be something that's always been around for them
>It can't replace all the cuts of beef, chicken and pork I use for cooking
Not right now, they're only making stuff similar to ground meats at the moment but I expect eventually they'll be able to create high quality steaks and everything else.

>substitute it with other sources of protein such as cheese, eggs or cheaper cuts/meat such as chicken.
Or, gasp - cheap as fuck, health as fuck, vegan as fuck lentils, beans, nuts, vegetables, tofu, almond milk... The list goes on and on.

Those foods are healthy and good to eat, but they really don't provide the same amount or quality of protein as animal products

>products
You mean line animals that are killed. No.. The only way to stop that is veganism. Its not a passing fad, its predicted to be 23% of the US by 2020 and its already 16%. The reason meat heads make so much fun of how noisy vegans are is because they are constantly underestimating the number of vegans making that noise. If you neck bearded fuck ups dated a little you'd find that almost every fit looking woman in the US has adopted some level of dietary restriction (in many cases vegan or vegetarian) in order to keep it tight. I feel sorry for all you ham planets out there.

>(in many cases vegan or vegetarian)
But you can be vegan or vegetarian and be overweight and unhealthy, just like an omnivore who pays attention to what they eat can be healthy too. It's not like cutting meat completely out of your diet suddenly makes you fit, sugar and vegetable oils are vegan and unhealthy in large amounts. There was also a study showing that omnivores had more muscle mass than vegetarians

They provide better protein, because the protein doesn't come with 200% daily value of the bad saturated fats. You don't need as much protein as you are consuming, even the smart plate (whose protein section keeps shrinking) is ridiculously skewed to favor the beef industry.

>some vegans are fat and unhealthy
>meat eaters can be healthy too
Keep telling yourself that the exception is the rule. But do us a favor and come back and let us know when your doctor tells you to stop eating red meat after your first heart attack.

>caring about thots
Kill yourself.

>The only way to stop that is veganism.
Veganism doesn't stop killing at all. Any and all forms of farming crops also cause the death of animals. The mechanisms are habitat loss as land is cleared for farming, deliberate poisoning with pesticides, side effects from fertilizer runoff (a huge environmental problem), not to mention plain 'ol mechanical smashing when pic related drives through a field.

Yes, because you can eat all of those raw right? Wild almonds will literally kill you dumbass.

>The only way to stop that is veganism. Its not a passing fad, its predicted to be 23% of the US by 2020 and its already 16%.
That is straight bullshit. I guarantee that the percentage of the US that is vegan is less than 1.

>than 16*

a sane vegan's opinion:

People ARE SUPPOSED to hunt and eat meat, naturally and traditionally. This is irrefutable. Otherwise B12 deficiency wouldn't be a thing. The fact that modern technology has made it so you can be vegan without destroying your nervous system is wonderful. This goes above "muh animal rights :'(". Humans should always innovate and look for ways to put themselves above less sophisticated animals: the ability to steer our own evolution and progress is what makes us human.

Factory farming is disgusting. Whether you eat meat or not, or believe in it's environmental impact or not, this is also irrefutable. If you can look at a slaughterhouse and be okay with the mass scale blood and literal shit and what-have-you, you've got issues. I'm not even talking about animal suffrage, just being okay with the things you eat coming from a literal shithouse, pumped full of ammonia, is all kinds of fucked up. Not as much of a problem with small-scale, local farming, of course.

Your average American / first-worlder eats way too much meat. Hence there being mass-scale factory farming and a thousand trash fast food chains.

If more people ate less meat, even some of the time, it'd be a lot better. Better for their health, for the environment (probably), for freedom from corporations. It's unfortunate that the most visible vegans are fucking insane and turn people off from even considering trying it. I made the switch when I challenged myself with no external influence to just try it out, just to see if I had the willpower to do it. And it ended up being way easier than I thought. Haven't looked back since, the health benefits have been too good to pass up.

Bip. Bap. Bam.
>captcha: bioland calle

bibimbap

>Veganism doesn't stop killing at all. Any and all forms of farming crops also cause the death of animals. The mechanisms are habitat loss as land is cleared for farming, deliberate poisoning with pesticides, side effects from fertilizer runoff (a huge environmental problem), not to mention plain 'ol mechanical smashing when pic related drives through a field.
all true but meat still causes more death because think of this ... what do cows eat? plant life. they provide that plant life to them by farming it which brings up all those problems you mentioned. the most ethical meat would come from hunting invasive species.

This. 99% of 4chin is Veeky Forums larping armchair veterans who think they need now than 45grams of protein per day.
Literally a bowl of oats and and two swigs of soy milk gives you 50g.

You're just wrong from the start. I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your post.

Farm animals do not produce B12 endogenously. It comes from unprocessed water, and the way animals get it is from supplements.

About what?

>You don't need as much protein as you are consuming
You don't know how much I'm consuming