Every very successful person I've read about believes in free will. If I start believing in free will, it's possible that my behavior will change and I will become a more successful person.
Please convince me that free will exists and that the universe is not deterministic.
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it is, in fact, your fault you're shit. stop clogging up the catalog.
Your shitpost hasn't changed my mind.
I mean, obviously. If good things happened all the time in your life, wouldn't you want to take credit for them too?
And that's on you, brother.
>still believes in the free will/deterministic dichotomy
I would love to take credit for them, but I'm just an observer as far as I'm concerned.
>Please convince me that free will exists and that the universe is not deterministic.
youtu.be
only retards believe in determinism
insh'allah
You don't understand determinism OP. In a deterministic universe, every moment, every action of yours, is of profound significance, influencing the entirety of the casual chain that follows. Determinism encourages success, it says the world isn't about luck but action, that you are in control because you affect the world as it affects you.
>But physicists were completely BAFFLED by this!
you need to reconnect with the intuitive concept of free will. What you’re asking is similar to asking someone to prove the existence of qualia. I can’t show you any data, you have to remember that you were a human being in the world before you were beguiled by positivism and her ways.
Yes, being hyper empirical and objective goes a long way, but the foundation has to be your actual experience.
...
Impossible
You don't sound very determined to begin with. So why ought I?
>he's not a bohmian
keep believing in magical wave function collapses
Whether or not we live under hard determinism shouldn't affect your life at all, since the illusion of choice persists. You're just clinging to any justifications for your lack of initiative and passive behavior
>Please convince me that free will exists and that the universe is not deterministic.
Well I can do the first one, but not the last one. Take a novel, right? You can tell the difference between the character making a choice and not making a choice, in spite of the fact that all the events in the book is pretty much written in stone. So basically what is saying, except I'm not gonna call it an illusion. Whether or not you can see it just depends on if you're pulling a gods eye view or not. It's an actual phenomena the same way a feeling is.
has a good side point though, it's more likely the case that being successful makes people believe in free will more than the reverse order
>successful
>nonlocal shit
Everett interpretation is the way, not your ugly ad hoc constructions.
Hitler believed in Destiny, and for a while he was very successful.....
>convince me that free will exists
I think you need to convince yourself or it kind of violates the entire premise.
Now here's the solution for you: go find the tallest building you can and jump off the roof. Since everything is determined anyway, you will survive the impact if you are destined to live further.
And if you don't want to follow that piece of advice, then ask yourself why.
The thing is that the concept of destiny is not merely "there is the unseen script which your life follows to the last letter". What happens is what should have happened and could not have been the other way. This applies to the past and the present, but future is a bit more complicated. You can not see into the future, human consciousness is not suited for this, our perception of time is linear. Because of this when you try to apply your logic to the matter of free will/determinism question, it appears as binary to you. What you should do instead is listening to your senses. They would tell you to chose something literally at every step. It does not mean that there is no destiny. It is simply that with your human mind you can not comprehend the coexistence of choice and destiny. And you shouldn't try really, you should rather try feeling it. The answer is that, yes, what is happening is ought to be so, but your way onwards is very much yours to decide.
And you may object that our perception is an illusion anyway, so that your senses do not matter. It may be as well so, or may be not. It does not matter in fact, because there is no way you can escape this illusion as long as you are alive. Fighting against it, trying to deny it will only make you unhappy. The fact that you asked this question despite, going by your words, believing in determinism, only proves it.
So stop torturing yourself with beliefs that go against your very human nature. Live your life fully, there is only so much time that you have.
successful are more likely to believe that because of their experience. survivorship bias. whether or not the universe is deterministic or not doesn't really effect on how you'll view the work youve done.
Read Kant, all three critiques.
>And if you don't want to follow that piece of advice, then ask yourself why.
The answer is because he was casually determined not to want to do that, lol. You retard.
A universal wavefunction is still a nonlocal entity. You can't escape the Bell correlations
Think hard enough about it and it seems like you can make your body go against its desires. Forcing yourself to touch a hot surface for instance. Overcome these small resistances which make no sense for the predetermined being and go jump off that building. Put yourself to the ultimate test to see if your life was meant to end or not.
>being this stupid
none of that contradicts or challenges determinism in the fucking slightest, the 'resistance' and it being overcome are all part of the same causal chain you brainlet
>determinism
I fucking hate redditors
Please quote where I said the resistance wasn't part of the causal chain, take your time I'll wait buddy.
You ought to read up on a little guy called William James. He developed what he called the pragmatic criterion of truth which is highly relevant to your query.
Essentially there are certain propositions in metaphysics or otherwise which are undecidable because of their inherent nature or subject matter. Free will is one such topic.
James says that if one finds the concept of free will useful, one ought to believe it, especially if that belief acts as an instrument for the furtherance of one's aims. Similar for God.
What matters is not whether the proposition is empirically, objectively true, but that adherence to it yields meaningful results and benefits.
>which make no sense for the predetermined being
Hope you didn't hold your breath, retard.
Lmao, I'm not saying that the resistance contradicts your determinism. I'm saying reason can seem to overcome our instincts so a deterministically aware mind would be able to overcome such thoughts because the it seems to them that the outcome is already decided.
>Lmao, I'm not saying that the resistance contradicts your determinism
Do you mean other than literally? Lmao indeed.
Did you read the post my dude, you seem to be missing the point.
Sometimes I bump a dying, short thread with an innocent question and it flourishes into a heated discussion, possibly of something different than originally. Does that happen as a result of my action or was the discussion determined to happen in that dying-yet-rescued thread?
>hurr durr you can do things you otherwise couldn't if you think the act is deterministic
No, you're missing the point. No-one cares about your sophistic slight of hand.
When you do something and other things entail, the entire chain was determined from the very beginning since, given certain specific circumstances, specific corresponding events will unfold no matter what
People tend to believe whatever benefits and/or comforts them. For successful people, that usually means overestimating the extent of 'free will' and underestimating the role of luck.
You won't find many successful people saying their success was mostly based on the environment they were brought up in and some lucky breaks going their way.
Conversely, unsuccessful people will typically tell you how their environment and sheer dumb luck led to their current circumstances.
Finally a good post.
Seriously start by doing this, can't guarantee that you will become successfull after that though.
Torturing yourself with a cat o nine tails would make you more successful. Appeal to the gods while you do so
Yes. Neat.
Still not it yawn
Why would it even matter? If you did or didn't believe in free will its not like it changes anything.
How about this: whether your fate is predetermined or not, how does that change your life?
Are you guys asking how being able to freely choose my actions would affect my life?
>successful
Often, they are successful because they have been at the right place, at the right time, with the right people.
Of course, successful people like to believe they "did something". To an objective and impartial observer, however, their success happened as a result of processes absolutely removed from the personal qualities and achievements of the person in question.
If J.K. Rowling or John Green were born ten years earlier or later, and in some African or Asian country, and without access to the right people, they would never have """achieved""" what they are today.
Yeah. Write it out. Right now.
I don't understand. You don't believe in free will but you believe that successful people do? Why not just assume the same laws of free will apply to both of you?
Even if you were absolutely convinced that you exist only as a fully determined object (unlikely), you wouldn't be able to escape choice, even if you believed that it was an illusion.
You probably are determined, but as usual, we don't know for sure. Either way, you have no choice but to act as if you were free.
Now go for a run, start with the greeks and stop clogging up the catalog.
Dude you can't post porn webms like that on a blue board. Good taste though
Thank you. But if you're OP you still gotta write it out.
lol
>we don't know for sure
>but I know how you would act either way
lol
Quantum randomness and the schrödinger's cat are fact, and against Determinism. Don't let broken flesh Golems tell you otherwise - all they have is desire for their opinion.
>(You)
>lol
No, not lol you stupid fuck. Write out, right now, what would you do if your life wasn't predetermined. Do it right now.
I would choose to argue that life is predetermined lmao
No free will, no action. No action no success. Living a tremendous reflex is not how it goes.
>Measuring instruments interfere with electrons at the quantum level therefore we have free will
10/10
>And if you don't want to follow that piece of advice, then ask yourself why.
Because drive to live etc, I may not believe I have free will to anything meaningful degree, but I am still aware of and will attempt to avoid things that can kill me.
I don't believe in destiny either, as I don't believe what is to come has yet to come or is written anywhere, it's just gradually unfolding with the current state of the universe being responsible for the future state of the universe (i.e. this second responsible for the next for infinity).
I feel like these discussions tend to be fruitless because people talk over each other too, to put it plainly, my saying I don't believe in free will is equivalent to my believing that if I go back in time, however long back, it will unfold exactly the same due to the state of the universe at that time, my mental state at that time (as a result of my history, previous mental states and blabla), my neurons clicking as they do because of the events that preceded them etc -- and these are all outside of my control, thus no free will. There is nothing in addition to these causes that floats above them and allows me to somehow tweak my actions beyond that. Additionally, nobody controls their thoughts. The thoughts I happen to have pop into my head and that I give credence to popped in without my wanting them to (since I wasn't aware of the thought before it popped in, you can't think a thought before you've thought it etc) even though I might retroactively decide it was a good thought and be glad I had it.
I'm not OP though and I don't see it interfering with my being successful in any way.
A different experiment shows it has to do with just knowledge of the path the electrons take. See here: youtu.be
The universe is somewhat deterministic, there is also some free will
Has it right
Confusing these things as dichotomies is your first mistake
answer lies in kabbalah
The fuck is a free will? A refusal to investigate a structure of a decision-making process, or a denial of any such structure, while also denying it the randomness? It really isn't a coherent notion at all. There either are reasons for the decisions you make (which makes the decision deterministic) or there aren't (which makes it random), though realistically it's always a combination of both. But neither correspond to any "freedom" in the meaning that "free will" usually tries to convey. That is, unless you add some decision-making object, or substance, that you prohibit to ask questions about.