/clg/ Catholic literature general

The idea of a temperament is hardly new, why would there be new theology for this because we discovered the reason behind the fact everyone already knew?

Anyone read Padre Antonio Vieira's Sermons?

Or just sexual deviants who feel the need to be pretty or live through arcs were they overcome something.

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Oy vey

>uses the parlance of Veeky Forums as a catholic OP
>Cusses in his sad joke of a post in order to better relate to the intelligent people of Veeky Forums, of which he is not one
>Creates a new /clg/ when there is a far better one up with a far better OP who belongs on this board
>His thread has less than 20 replies and has already devolved into textless posts and social justice memes
>No wolfsheim
I'll pray for you OP

>caring this much about who starts a thread
>not recognizing Christ in his brother man

Back to your television, zombie.

Can't this just be called Christian literature general?

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Why don't you go make one and have nothing but endless debates about who's right? Catholics of course Christian literature can end up being very broad and I don't think any of us want some Mormon mucking it up.

Plus this whole thread is for Catholic literature, why the Hell would it be Christian literature general?

TOSHIO SHIMAO IS THE GREATEST CATHOLIC AUTHOR OF THE 20TH CENTURY

You should post this a dozen more times even though nobody responds to it

help me defeat gluttony brothers. Please recommend some literature on keeping yourself from sin in general as well

Screw it, I'll go namefag too. Made my name obvious for who I am.

Fellow anons, why is Catholicism, and forgive my phrasing, more correct than Orthodoxy?

Why is the Trinity so beautiful?

Orthodoxy denies the papacy and the filioque makes more sense theologically

Needs to be church approved or else Catholics will blindly hate it for hurting their feelings

Catholicism is more Veeky Forums.

That's truly a pointless funfact.

I’ve been trying to answer this post for a while...

I would like to mention the perfection of the dialectic as Hegel would say...

I would like to mention the Logos...

I would like to think of the Our Father...

I would like to consider the true meaning of the holy spirit...

Yes, but it's going to be mainly Catholicism anyway because it has had the greatest literary output.

Because it's utterly organic. It's not something somebody cooked up one day and that was grafted onto authentic Christianity. It follows logically from God's presentation of himself in the Bible, and particularly in the Gospels. It's strange, and seems to be beyond the bounds of human logic, yet if you're a Christian you have to accept it. It's fundamentally divine, and a thing that can be accepted by reason but has to be believed by faith.

Because the filioque is correct, because the papacy does have mechanical power over other offices, because divine simplicity is correct as opposed to a separation of essence and energies.

>WSJ got kicked off twitter again

Yes....YES......

I sometimes feel like TradCath Twitter is a harbinger of things to come. Thirty years from now we're going to be back in the pre-Vatican 2 days, with ad orientem Masses and excommunications. It's going to be great.

?

I missed confession this week. Felt really disappointed in myself. Attended mass, however. Arrived just in time. Thought that the mass started later and confessions started earlier... nevertheless, I enjoyed the readings and received my blessing.

>catholic feels general

Woke Space Jesuit, a Francis loving heretic on Twitter.
Can't wait my dude.

I'm going to have to skip mass today, the priest didn't come for 9am mass and I'm working for a science conference later in the day. Also feels bad man.

This is what I love to it, and my own spiritual life revolves around contemplating it (especially the Holy Spirit). It just makes me dizzy with joy. It means everything, and yet I can't even begin to explain how.

this. proddies dont read.

*posts C.S. Lewis

Posts Milton and Blake, then realises they were heretical even by their standards.
But James Hogg is actually excellent, Memoirs and Confessions of a justified sinner is the shit and is a perfect parody of sola fide and justification by faith, every Catholic should read it.

>because divine simplicity is correct as opposed to a separation of essence and energies.

Is there somewhere I can get a good rundown on this debate? Aquinas vs Palamas?

Will I see you clowns at the Baptist church for the contemporary service beginning 11am?

No, because I will be at the Congregational

De Ente et Essentia from Aquinas

i dont read latin

feser doesnt have a blog post about this?

At least you used the word "deviant" instead of the stupid word "degenerate." Deviant is a good word because it admits it's different without implying it's necessarily wrong.

It is necessarily wrong. I can replace it with degenerate if you want. Ontologically contrary to the natural law.

To mass.

Not that I know of. Read it in English or whatever, it's translated for sure. Hi Martin SJ, I didn't know you post here.

Gah. I was thinking of going to mass today and woke up too late, so I haven't got a ride that could get me there in time.

Evening mass. I had to miss it today because I'm working the whole day and the priest wasn't there at 9am for some reason. And I'm working 10am-9pm

I don't think my local church does evening mass sadly. At least, it's not listed on their website. Perhaps I'll go another day when I can.

On a side note, does anyone else find it a bit rich to hear non-Catholics speak about how they like Francis? They don't believe in what he's doing, but gosh golly gee, he agrees with some of their positions so he's an alright guy.

Of course people like when they are pandered to. These people hate Catholicism and then there's a pope who... Also hates it.

Give him a few days and he'll be back and will probably have a screenshot of your quote. Weird how he always finds those things.

Yeah it's really pathetic to see the left lash out against or purge everyone who doesn't have the most extreme position in favor of abortion or homosexuality then say "look our position here is line with Catholic social teaching". I really wish the Church would do more to shut up liberal """Catholics""" like Justin Trudeau from saying shit like abortion is a human right and marching in the pride parade or selling weapons to regimes which persecute Christians.

lifesitenews.com/news/sacrilege-archbishop-of-montreal-gives-communion-to-pro-abortion-justin-tru

How was church today, fellow sinners?

Bzzzzzzzt. Wrong. It is true however that Evangelicals don't read and mainline Protestant churches can barely even make a claim to being Christian even if they are better educated and well-read than Evangelicals.

See pic related. The King James Version is yet to be superseded in style (I'm aware that there are superior literal translations). Shakespeare is a genius and while it's possible he might have confessed to Catholicism in his heart, he did attend Anglican churches and his daughters and extended family even married Puritans (even though he mocked Puritans in his plays such as Twelfth Night). Paradise Lost is the only true epic in the English language unless you count Leaves of Grass as an epic. Paradise Lost and Leaves of Grass were written respectively by a Congregationalist and a Quaker. Pilgrim's Progress is an excellent attempt at an allegorical representation of Christ's narrow way into heaven, written by a Baptist. The Anglican Book of Common Prayer's language is impossible to escape in English, so much, we may say "'til death do us part" from it.

With all that said, I'll live and die a Catholic because I consider it the true faith. While there is a bit of heresy in Pilgrim's Progress (the Pope scene) and Paradise Lost (almost the whole work) and a little Catholic-bashing in the Book of Common Prayer (there's a note for the 5th of November in the lectionary), they are incredible classics that have entered our vernacular and are worth reading in order to master our shared culture and tongue. If we want any hope of recovering this valuable, lost part of Christendom, we need to master this canon and learn how to respond to it appropriately to vanquish their heresy.

t. Papist

Who's saying that there were no great Protestant authors? It's just that extremely few are read for their religious value or influence. And you are incredibly Anglo focused for some reason.

>only great epic of english language other than perhaps leaves of grass
> The Faerie Queene
also leaves of grass isn't even an epic

>English language epics
What about modern stuff? The Wasteland? Howl? The Battlefield Where The Moon Says I Love You?

What are some Catholic essentials?

I found my father’s old Christian Prayer book. It’s like a condensation of the Catholic Liturgy of the Hours into one volume. IIRC, deacons are supposed to follow along with morning and evening prayer but so far I have only been doing night prayer.

Should one read a Roman Missal to gain more familiarity with the Mass? There’s a study version on Amazon. But I am curious about the 1962 Latin/English Missal as well. Is it just the book in the pews?

To be clear, when I say Anglo, I broadly mean "English-speaking people." Obviously the Saxons were the more important of the tribes that conquered England but "Anglo" is broadly recognized as referring to English-speaking culture.

These writers broadly influenced all writers in English whether they were American, British, Canadian, Irish, Strayan, or Nigerian. These writers were the cultural foundation for the English who conquered and settled lands within the empire and their biological and cultural descendants. Even Catholic immigrants to the US such as the Irish and Italians would have been familiar with these texts as they were often used for education in American public schools. It's only after WWII that these texts have seen a gradual decline.

Considering we are on an Anglo board, I don't see why you would fuss about my focus on Anglo writers. If you are a Spaniard or descended from one of their former colonies, then obviously your equivalent to my canon would be very different. My canon is more about drawing a universal canon for natives of the English tongue. No other group of writers or texts has influenced the English vernacular. That's why I consider them essential reading for Anglo Catholics (not be confused with Anglo-Catholics, the high church Anglicans).

The Faerie Queene is great, but is more of a patrician choice while my canon was broadly popular. Plenty of English aristocrats and peasants alike read Pilgrim's Progress and imagined themselves as the Eternal Pilgrim, but a cockney might have wondered if you weren't being a bit funny going on about some fairy queen. I'm sure plenty of aristos would have given you an equally clueless look unless they had a literary bent to them.

I've seen other people object to my list for not including Chaucer, but again, Chaucer is more of a poet's poet just as Spenser is. Chaucer would even be less likely to be included in my list because of him writing in Middle English whereas our modern English, whether British or American, is heavily influenced by these books originally published in the 17th century when England was beginning its world conquest.

I've never heard of the third work you mentioned, but Wasteland and Howl are definitely not epics. They're long narrative poems, but not epic by any classical definition.

>What are some Catholic essentials?
There's so many you'll need to be a lot more specific. What are you interested in?

>Should one read a Roman Missal to gain more familiarity with the Mass? Theres a study version on Amazon. But I am curious about the 1962 Latin/English Missal as well. Is it just the book in the pews?
Yes, but reading it helps as well. Videos on it by the fssp are very interesting as well.

Who /catholicwriter/ here? A few threads ago we remarked that there seems to have been a falling off of good Catholic writers since the days of Graham Greene, Flannery O'Connor, and JRR Tolkien. We have guys like Gene Wolfe, but they're only here and there, and there are too few of them. I'd like to hope that I could kick things off again, to write work that tries to communicate God's glory and what it means to live in the shadow of it.

Who are some more writers that converted to Catholicism in the middle of their careers? I've compared the works of Valentin Tomberg before and after and the difference is incredible

I intend to be a Catholic writer. If I fail in that, I hope that I'll be able to educate my children well in the subject.

>What are you interested in?
I am interested in official books of daily prayer and meditation practices for deepening my faith. Hence why I brought up Christian Prayer book and asked about the Roman Missal. I have always had a great spiritual thirst and even in my apostasy experimented greatly with different spiritual practices such as yoga and buddhism. I suppose I need to talk more in-depth with a priest about such things but people in these threads have accused me of heresy for continuing such practices despite my return to faith. I suppose prayer and rosary are forms of meditation but I am interested if there is like an official doctrinal book on more mental meditations? I was first recommended eastern style meditation from my CBT therapist and feel it has improved my mental health so am loathe to relinquish it without something else to replace it. I try not to do too much chanting of sanskrit and stuff. Dont really think Buddhism is demonic. Maybe shamanism and occultism can be sorta tho.

Can you tell me more about Tomberg? I was somewhat interested in reading Meditations on the Tarot but know little about its contents.

Is jesus God? Or is God God?

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Birch is not pine is not fir is tree

How very strange, that guy. I would love to talk to him.

I wouldn't know at all. I'm no expert on the issue but from what I've seen from different texts I don't find the issue all that difficult at all.

First, there is evidence for divine simplicity in the church fathers:

>"For God is simple and non-composite and without shape" - St. John Crysostom

Again from St. John,

>"[Paul] knows [God] in part. But he says, in part, not because he knows Gods essence while something else of his essence he does not know; for God is simple. Rather, he says in part because he knows that God exists, but what God is in his essence he does not know" -St. John Crysostom

>"Far removed is the Father of all from those things which operate among men, the affections and passions. He is simple, not composed of parts, without structure, altogether like and equal to himself alone. He is all mind, all spirit, all thought, all intelligence, all reason . . . all light, all fountain of every good, and this is the manner in which the religious and the pious are accustomed to speak of God" -St. Iraneaus, Against Heresies 2:13:3

part1/2

part 2/2
>"But there is neither nor ever shall be such a dogma in the Church of God that would prove the simple and incomposite [God] to be not only manifold and variegated, but even constructed from opposites. The simplicity of the dogmas of the truth proposes God as he is" -St. Gregory of Nyssa, Against Eunomius 1:1:222

>We perceive the operation of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to be one and the same, in no respect showing differences or variation; from this identity of operation we necessarily infer the unity of nature. -St. Basil, Letters

The strength of the latter quote being the comment of essence. If we were to weigh Palamas' interpretation of God against this view the argument of St. Basil would fall to plurality of essence and lead to the same "polytheism" criticism it is known to get.

Despite all of this, though, the essence/energies distinction is also present in the church fathers. The issue that causes the conflict is grasping the distinctions between the two, to which there is almost nothing and the situation largely arises from the difference in terms that developed over time between the west and east. The Orthodox would state that God's essence is distinct from reality and that what is present sustaining reality are "energies" of God but the distinction is not an ontological one and God is still one. The Catholic view is that God is simplistic and so is synonymous with His essence but his essence cannot be apprehended by those in nature and so still remains transcendent.

I would go so far as to say that this is more a semantic issue than anything. The Catholics are more precise, however.

Depends on what you mean by clowns.

Who would consider Leaves of Grass an epic by any measure? It's excellent but that's just poor terminology.

I have not read enough Catholic fiction to know what Catholic writing looks like thematically, but I'm doing a little writing on the side.

Jesus is the material incarnation of the Logos.

Any thoughts on my queries, Wolf?

Sell a Protestant on Catholicism in a paragraph.

Does anyone here watch The Young Pope? This show is so good.

Greetings from an Anglican. I'll never understand why you guys feel the need to exclude all your Christian brothers but I'll have you know that a /christian general/ is always open to you and so is our communion. The one true church is the universal church of all Christians, not Rome. Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox, Congregationalist, Presbyterian... doesn't matter as long as Jesus is the Lord and your savior.

With much love,

Anglo-scum.

In terms of bare essentials I'd think:

>Bible (recommending Ignatius Study Bible)
>Missal
>Laudate app

I would include the Laudate app due to its plentiful resources for most everything else. Prayers, encyclopedia, catechism, daily readings, and assistance for examinations of conscience.

I have poor memory for prayers so its interactive rosary helps me a lot.

In terms of understanding Buddhist (specifically Zen) spiritual practices in comparison to Christian ones I'd recommend Mystics and Zen Masters by Thomas Merton. This is all I'd recommend of Thomas Merton's eastern stuff, however. He's generally a good resource for introduction to Christian spirituality and general contemplation. St. Ignatius (his Spiritual Exercises), St. Teresa of Avila, and St. John of the Cross should be your more advanced writers on Christian contemplation.

If you're looking into meditative practices, the rosary is the most obvious meditative devotion in Catholicism. The focus should be on the mysteries for each decade rather than just saying the Hail Marys however. Lectio Divina is also good, albeit simplistic. Other examples I don't know a name for can be found in the authors I gave you.

This is not quite spiritual practices but if you want a good bridge from a semi-educated layperson to a fully devout layperson I would recommend Introduction to the Devout Life by St. Francis de Sales. It's one of my favorite books and systematically provides what is basically a beginner's Ladder of Divine Ascent along with advice.

I hope this helps

Because nobody else is the One True Church.

How do you go from philosophical theism to Christianity? When I attempt to answer this question all I can come up with is the historical case for Christ. That Jesus actually being who he said he was provides the best explanation for a number of events surrounding his life and death, like the empty tomb, the resurrection appearances and conversion of Saul but is that it? Is that all we have to make to make the jump from simple theism to Christianity?

It's not a classical epic. Whitman unironically wanted to start something similar to a religion with Leaves of Grass. He wanted to write a unique "leaf" for each day of the year to be read akin to the lectionary of the Book of Common Prayer. It's epic in the way that the Bible is an epic, but not in the way that the Iliad and the Aeneid are. In fact, Paradise Lost still can't quite shed that classical vein despite having Biblical subject matter, but Leaves of Grass seems like unadulterated Biblical cadence to my ears.

I mean, if one were to label the Bible with an encompassing term, how is it anything but an epic with varying styles from book to book? From a Christian perspective, it has a very linear, defined structure, starting from the legalistic Hebrews, to the prophets hinting towards Christ, then Christ's life, then interpretation from the apostles.

Considering Homer was sacred literature to the Greeks, I reckon the only thing that makes the Bible different from classical literature is the lack of care for unified form in the Bible. Epics, such as those by Homer and Virgil, were sacred literature for the Greeks and Romans, just as the Bible is for Jews and Christians.

So... maybe it's just me and a few other enlightened individuals (my good sirs), but calling Leaves of Grass a mere "poetry collection" doesn't seem right. Calling it an epic just seems a better fit. Considering that he was constantly publishing new editions with new poems and improvements upon the old poems, I don't think his intention was for it to be a mere collection. After all, he published other books that were obviously collections on certain, more specific themes. No, Leaves of Grass is aiming for a total definition of life the way most epics do.

>St. Teresa of Avila
Her work was mentioned today in the homily. Apparently today is her feast day! If it wasn't for my preoccupation with cracking the Anglo code I would currently be reading her and St. John of the Cross. Sadly I never read them back when I was more of a prolific reader, so they're high on my list now that I'm as Catholic obsessed as I am Anglo.

You may as well ask why we wouldn't allow Mormons or Muslims into a christian general.

If you're not a catholic, you're not christian.

Your pic is not much better than one of those cringey coexist stickers.

Protestants have created plenty of great art and philosophy, but you completely botched theology. I have a soft spot for you Anglicans but your church is in decline. Join the rest of the conservative Anglicans and cross the Tiber back home. The Catholic Church is our last chance if you believe in the West.

Who are some of your favourite lesser-known saints? For me it's St Angela of Foligno

proties will burn in hell for their heresy.

I feel some connection with Saint Benedict Joseph Labre.

And Saint John of God.

Politics, ha. How can Catholics even call themselves Christians when they condemn others who follow Christ. I'll tell you how: Rome doesn't deserve the keys it was given. Mortal scum.

I am a big fan of St. Francis de Sales, in large part because he is my confirmation saint. He should be better known on Veeky Forums, especially, because he's the patron saint of writers and journalists. Also, his "Introduction to the Devout Life" is a really great introduction to living a life of holiness as a layperson.

Any royal saint because I would like to see more political leaders who are zealous Catholics.

Great argument.

>Rome doesn't deserve the keys it was given
That's for God to decide.

Labre seems really cool, I'll have to study his life in more detail.

I'm yet to read his book, but I do know some of his prayer techniques from friends which have been helpful.

The only ones I know at St Stephen of Hungary (who's relics I got to see in Budapest a few years back) and Blessed Charles I of Austria