For me it was when I realized it was a tool (used, but not manufactured) to keep the people in total submission.
>"Besides, large-scale general plans : 1) they will seek to break the bonds between earth and heaven, doing their best to spread, on a large scale, atheistic and materialistic theories, degrading the Romanian people, or even just its leaders, to a people separated from God and its dead, they will kill them, not with the spear, but by cutting the roots of their spiritual life ; 2) they will then break the links of the race with the soil, material spring of its wealth, attacking nationalism and any idea of Fatherland and homeland ; determined to succeed, they will seek to seize the press ; 4) they will use any pretext, since in the Romanian people there are dissensions, misunderstandings, and quarrels, to divide them into as many antagonistic parties as possible ; 5) they will seek to monopolise more and more the means of existence of Romanians ; 6) they will systematically drive them to dissoluteness, annihilating family and moral force without forgetting to degrade and daze them through alcoholic drinks and other poisons. And, in truth, anyone who would want to kill and conquer a race could do it by adopting this system."
Zachary Baker
That's an incredibly interesting take on nihilism. I grew out of it when I was around 18, it was early on in college. The big thing that set it off for me was the realization that negative meaning in life is still nevertheless meaning.
Liam Morales
Isn't nihilism about absence of meaning?
Connor Torres
you don't choose nihilism, nihilism choose you more or less. we live in a nihilistic epoch so like it or not we have nihilistic views ingrained. also nihilism is good because is the anticipation of something better to come. "the torch needs darkness to illuminate"
Alexander Foster
Yeah, that's exactly my point. It was the conflation of meaninglessness with negative meaning.
Josiah Morris
Oh look, a 17 year old.
Hudson Ward
You actually choose it like any ideology or religion, the only reason it feels like you described is because it also breaks your will and energy which makes it seemingly hard to get away from.
Ayden Flores
i'm not defending nihilism, all i'm saying it's something natural that will occur sooner or later in life.
Thomas Bailey
That statment is false. The nihilism comes out an interpetation from the lack of divine evidence and lack of scientific evidence from both a metaphysical and mental state about the meaning of life
However, it is still an interpretation, one may choose to believe in spirits if they want to. Nihilism ultimately is a way of thinking, not a way of life
Dylan Adams
I had a drunk talk with a friend last weekend and sort of came to the conclusion, that most normalfags don't actually ever go as far as to approach serious nihilism. They sort of glance at it from a distance and solely when reminded of nothingness by Rick and Morty or Neil DeGass Tyson tier shit. The reason most think reading philosophy about self improvement is a waste or understanding the necessity of religion in some sense is archaic, is because they are just too brain dead lazy, uninterested, not curious, insular or whatever you can call it.
Really depressing somehow, that some people say: "When I have this car in 5 years I will be happy and I'll know my work has been worth it."
How am I supposed to respect or take advice from someone who never went as far as to have such, I'd assume, natural thoughts and questions about themselves which they would had to find answers to to cope with being?
Josiah Davis
>How am I supposed to respect or take advice from someone who never went as far as to have such, I'd assume, natural thoughts and questions about themselves which they would had to find answers to to cope with being?
Interesting.
I'm not religious myself but to quote Peter Hitchens when asked if he ever had doubts about his fate he responded with "every day", and remembering my teenage years when I was what you would call today a fedora atheist I never had any doubts or questions about myself or my beliefs.
Mason Gutierrez
...
Thomas Davis
I grew out of nihilism after I realized that it didn't really matter that nothing really matters. AND from an outsiders perspective, nihilism is just an excuse to be horrible to other people because of that stupid Rick Sanchez neckbeard logic.
Asher Hill
When I cleaned my room
Asher Sullivan
my back hurts
Ryder Wilson
Finally, a sensible post
Levi Thompson
I have very bad posture
Jose Lewis
When I realized that objective morality can be rationally grounded.
Nathaniel Cruz
Codreanau knew and met Evola and Eliade. Evola also wrote "The Tragedy of the Romanian Iron Guard: Codreanu", interesting. Was he really that bad compared to the opposition of commies that followed in his wake, mind you i don't know anything about him, but a skimming of the wiki page - not reliable I know. I've found the aforementiond book, but are there more that go into detail about his life?
Jack Peterson
i'm reading The Brothers Karamazov for the first time (along with some secondary literature about Dosto/Brothers Karamazov from my local public library) and seeing how nihilism can be bad. i see nihilism everywhere in society since religion has become widely discredited (for some warranted reasons) but the community/good values associated with religious practice could be helpful. i dont think i need to be religious to follow good values. i like the golden rule because i'm too plebeian to develop my own ethos and values
Brayden Murphy
>he thinks he grew out of nihilism cute
Parker Brooks
For My Legionaries is his autobiography, heartbreaking and beautiful. If what he writes about his actions is 100% factual I would consider him the most honorable man who ever lived.
Brandon Gonzalez
what are you even talking about
Aiden Hernandez
Definitely.Dosto has the best arguments against nihilism, and other popular, let's say worldviews, that we inherently know are detrimental, but perhaps can't explain why. I'm also reading C&P in my public library with secondary literature, btw. In C&P part 4 chapter IV where Raskolnikov speaks with Sonja about her faith, and the utter futility of her efforts. She had to begin prostituting herself to support her family -- she's only half-related to it, on her father's side -- and because of this the familiy kicked her out of their home, even though she was giving all her money to keep them alive -- they had 3 kids and the father was, of course, a drunk, and drank her money away. Weekly. Her father dies. There's no money for the funeral, but Raskolnikov's donation. The kids have only one set of clothes each, patched and too small, same for the step-mother. She, the step-mother, has tuberculosis, and won't live much longer. One of the children will quite likely have to prostitute herself too, Sophia. She's 9. Rasklonikova lays this out for her, and asks her why? in face of all this pointless suffering, she keeps on. The mother will die, the father is dead, the kids will be poor their whole lives, likely die of starvation, illness, violent murder, suicide... in short it will be a terrible life and death, whoring herself out through all of it. Why? There's no point. Why doesn't she kill herself, he asks her? She must be mad -- ill-minded -- is Raskolnikov's conclusion. He doesn't understand, yet, and neither do I.
Jaxson Morris
What is there besides obviously bullshit religion (*tip) and nihilism. Either there's meaning or there isn't right? My emotions matter to me but that's about it.
Nathaniel Collins
>nihilism is an excuse >implying there's a reason that needs excusing
Jace Jackson
> having a concert of "negative meaning" You weren't even a nihilist
Christopher Parker
This should really stop at the third panel
Zachary Peterson
>objective morality can be rationally grounded
Hunter Martin
99% of people are no better than animals. Whenever you come across another soul actually capable of critical thinking make yourself known, we're all lonely.
Christopher Williams
Evolution, ever hear of it?
Isaac Nelson
>dude care about your genes lmao, naturalistic fallacy, more naturalistic shmallacy Go away Sam harris
Eli Davis
>implying the naturalistic fallacy is a fallacy given everything is within nature retard alert
Lucas Russell
Ok, I see what's going on now. 5/10
Brody Hall
When I grew out of Stirner and adopted Rand's Philosophy
Mason Sullivan
My nig
Austin Allen
>late bloomer thinks 17 is the age of nihilism >he wasn't an edgy depressed emo faggot at 13
Matthew Foster
I was referring to Kant actually kek
Leo Campbell
When I was seventeen. It happens naturally. You can't simultaneously believe nothing has value and also think everything must be torn down. That said, I didn't grow out of Stirnerism. Hey fuck you.
Nathaniel Bennett
When I was thirteen I was a Machiavelli-worshipping socialist.
Get on my fucking level.
Gabriel Parker
Is this from For my Legionaries? I still need to read it but my bookstore doesn't have it.
Brayden Walker
It's an autobiography, of course he's going to show the things he believed in in a good light, no matter what you or I may think. Both him and those retarded communists that followed were equally bad. He just didn't have enough time to fuck things up. The only marginally good thing about his movement was that he didn't destroy an entire social class just because they weren't stupid peasants or workers. Fuck both of them.
Jeremiah Rivera
>Kant I disapprove
Jacob Mitchell
Anyone in here who thinks they grew out of it is just deluding themselves. The easiest way to see it is to read there reasoning, nobody disproves the notion, they just list bad side effects that arise with its dominance. I wouldn't attempt to disprove a religion by mentioning something bad that is related to it, I would attempt to disprove it by forming an actual argument
Tyler Ward
t. woke centrist
Lucas Bennett
oh boy another 200 posts about people who have no idea about nihilism
tl;dr nihilism doesn't imply negative meaning, only means lack of meaning - giving yourself the freedom to pursue what you enjoy (doesn't imply hedonism either) without the fear of hubris or social/cultural expectation.
Logan Roberts
I never went through a nihilist phase. I went through an agnostic phase, but that didn't make me give up on everything.
Does anyone truly live by nihilism though? Aside from some of those who kill themselves? It seems that people turn to hedonism instead. Isn't hedonism different from nihilism?
Christian Hall
One doesn't "grow out of" nihilism in the sense of: being wiser, having a more accurate understanding of the world, "being right with the world", etc. Instead, what happens is that adults wish to participate in the world and so are deluded by this process into projecting meaning onto things (having kids is the most surefire way to project meaning into the world where none exists). I personally refer to this as /the delusion of the productive adult/.
Charles Barnes
this, once nihilism strikes it never leaves, the burning questions just becomes less important in the menial and responsibility heavy mind of an adult. The people who truly embrace it instead of forgetting it are easy to spot
Kayden Garcia
Make a good argument against nihilism that isn't purely 'but the pragmatic effects of nihilism is bad'
Hunter Sanchez
>For me it was when I realized it was a tool (used, but not manufactured) to keep the people in total submission.
Your late 20s to mid 30s are going to be rough
Gavin Garcia
And how do you spot them user?
Caleb Garcia
Out of any -ism under the sun; nihilism is the simplest to undercut and discard. Hell the very word is a contradiction in terms; by it's very nature it possessing its suffix of "ism" isn't valid. Nihilism is a pseudointellectual act of mental annihilation. It's even a part of the word: 'nihil'
Nihilism is the rejection of philosophy outright, because nihilism is the claim that no answers are possible. That precludes any philosophical development. Once you have decided that no answers are possible, philosophy has become a waste of time. But further, if no moral values are possible, neither is life. So the only consistent nihilists are those who commit suicide. Nihilism has no answer to the axiom that life is an end in itself. Nihilism cannot defend the axiom that it implicitly purports; that life doesn't mean anything. It is mental destruction for sake of destruction. Hatred of the good for being the good. Nihilists like to prattle that it, by it's very nature is impossible to refute,but nihilsim doesn't even need to be "refuted" because all it needs is and indentification of what it actually is: an anti-concept. /discussion for all time
Ryan Anderson
>Nihilism is the rejection of philosophy outright
[citation needed]
>no answers are possible
Only in regards to whether there is innate meaning in human existence, because there isn't one - it doesn't deny science or your own quest for personal meaning.
seriously yours is one of the most pseudo intellectual responses I've seen.
Nathaniel Bennett
It's not an end; it's a starting point. You haven't thought about nearly enough if you haven't even realized that.
Levi Jackson
>When did I grow out of nihilism When I realize anti-natalism was for pussies. Life > death
Caleb Morales
"The falseness of an opinion is not for us any objection to it [...] The question is, how far an opinion is life-furthering, life- preserving, species-preserving, perhaps species-rearing"
Nihilism isn't something that can be disproven, it is only something that can be refrained from or accepted. The only argument against the claim that life is meaningless is that life has meaning, and I can't personally provide any evidence for either of those claims.
Lucas Gomez
>It's not an end; it's a starting point. You haven't thought about nearly enough if you haven't even realized that. well descartes got past it in like an hour
Adrian Fisher
> if no moral values are possible, neither is life. You gotta explain the logic in here, user.
> axiom that life is an end in itself Big claim, bucko. What's your evidence that it is more than an emerging dynamic pattern. Do you even know the definition of axiom...
> anticoncept > a refutation shouldn't need to be refuted because it is a refutation Really makes you think...
Christian Watson
When you niggas talk about the "meaning of life" that supposedly is non-existent or whatever I have no idea what you're talking about
can you elaborate?
if it means "what should i do" the answer may be hard but it's definitely out there, and possibly objective (e.g. if you're thirsty you should drink and so on)
Levi Gutierrez
What a brainlet in that quote
Juan Morales
>Nihilism isn't something that can be disproven, it is only something that can be refrained from or accepted. This. Nihilism is so worthless a notion that it and all concepts derived from it can be discarded without evidence. No discernable or useful conclusions can be derived from a nihilist base. See above. Nihilism precludes such concrete notions such as citations. --- The following is meant as a rebuke on you and that 'elaboration' for you :
There is only one fundamental alternative in the universe: existence or non-existence—and it pertains to a single class of entities: to living organisms. The existence of inanimate matter is unconditional, the existence of life is not: it depends on a specific course of action. Matter is indestructible; it changes its forms, but it cannot cease to exist. It is only a living organism that faces a constant alternative: the issue of life or death. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action. If an organism fails in that action, it dies; its chemical elements remain, but its life goes out of existence. It is only the concept of “Life” that makes the concept of “Value” possible. It is only to a living entity that things can be good or evil. Only a living entity can have goals or can originate them. And it is only a living organism that has the capacity for self-generated, goal-directed action. The goal of that action, the ultimate value which, to be kept, must be gained through its every moment, is the organism’s life.
Nihilsim is so worthless as to be trashed immediately but if one were to provide a hard-refutation this^ is what it would look like.
Dylan Smith
I'm interested in exacty what you meant with this reply to the previous post (which I did not write).
I'm also interested in whether you personally have lived through your late 20s and/or your mid 30s.
Isaiah Howard
Not sure why you're being shit on. Modern Man is living in a state of meaninglessness and nihilism as consequence of abandoning the traditional archetypes of the Archaic Man.
These people need to read "The Myth of the Eternal Return" by Eliade
Josiah Watson
Exactly, we live in Kali Yuga, eventually this world will be destroyed and a better one will rise. Nihilism is a symptom of the final stage of the cycle.
Carter Howard
A failure of introspection is not nihilism
Jose Sullivan
>bullshit religion
Oh transcend, the meaning you seek lies in spiritual freedom from the cycle of time.
The repetition of divine gestures is the key to meaning.
Jacob Cooper
Have you no empathy for your brother? Were you once not too, lost?
Zachary Price
Is he not correct in a slight sense though? Modern Man killed God and we have to live the painful consequences of that? Are we not all in search of meaning?
Jacob Cox
When I had a kid, someone I would kill and die for.
Noah Ramirez
Losing the validity of God does not mean losing meaning to a rational man.
Dominic Foster
I'm sorry, but I think your post is an argument for Nihilism, an explanation, rather than a refutation of it.
See how often you used the word "can" in your last few sentences. Yes, >It is only the concept of “Life” that makes the concept of “Value” possible. It makes it possible, that we all can agree upon, but that doesn't mean that "Life" has any objective intrinsic "Value" in it, or exists before it for that matter. It only means we can create it. That IS nihilism. The lack of intrinsic Value in Life; and the realization than all Values are synthetically made.
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting you, would you care to refute me?
Nathaniel Allen
>quoting a anti-Semitic nationalist /pol/ spotted. the only reason you made this thread is because you think Christianity and fascism is the solution to "the Jewish problem" which you believe Nihilism is a result of.
Jaxon Walker
I suppose I don't understand then, if God isn't the root of meaning, aside for arguments of Art or Nature, then does "rational man" have meaning? Or it just the relativist slip'n'slide to nihilism. Are you talking about "create your own meaning"?
Noah James
see . You're just deluded because now you're fully locked into adult participation for the rest of your life. This literally prevents you from entertaining truth.
Jordan Brooks
That post meant fuck all.
Jeremiah Powell
You grew out of it because you were never a nihilist. Just a depressed idiot. Maybe actually read up and fully understand nihilism first. Baka.
Aaron Bailey
Best post in thread.
Jeremiah Bailey
Not him.but the the semantics of his usage of "can" is irrelevant, here is arguing that there is a biological determinant that goes into life being seen as inherently valuable that exists on an instinctual level.
Here is a challenge for you, buy a gun and point it at your head with a round chambered. See how hard it is to pull the trigger. Now go point it at someone on the street and see how hard it is to pull the trigger.
Now question yourself, if life has no intrinsic value then why is it difficult for me to kill myself or others?
Thomas Davis
Except nihilism on either the emotional level or intellectualized level is retarded >Durr fuck religion and morality >There is no disconnect between me, my actions, my concept of self, and my thoughts that is leading me to believe I have no moral code that exists on modal level with other people >anything that isn't based on empiricism is false, because empiricism is axiomatically perfect
Jackson Nelson
Life, living it, and living it well. It really just that simple. Faux-complexity to the answer is unnecessary and ultimately worthless.
Thomas Lewis
Because we are wired like that in the head through evolution. It's the same reason it's hard to not eat when you are hungry or not go to the toilet or not sleep when you are tired. That doesn't mean there is intrinsic value in life.
Austin Garcia
>Just because I can't destroy life willy nilly doesnt mean I see some sort of inherent value in life tho How many layers of dissonance are you on, bro? If life is meaningless and has not value whatsoever then destroying it should be as simple as tossing trash into the bin. >Uses examples of instinctual life preserving behaviors mankind to prove that life has not value Wut
Daniel Sullivan
It is as simple as tossing trash into a bin. The reason it's hard to pull the trigger is because if you kill someone your freedom and life is instantly threatened. You have a survival instinct wired into you. If there was no penalty for murder you bet your ass people would start pulling triggers like tossing trash into the bin. Back before 'war' and real penalty people were being killed all the time.
>One half of the people found in a Nubian cemetery dating to as early as 12,000 years ago had died of violence. The Yellowknives tribe in Canada was effectively obliterated by massacres committed by Dogrib Indians, and disappeared from history shortly thereafter.[3] Similar massacres occurred among the Eskimos, the Crow Indians, and countless others. These mass killings occurred well before any contact with the West.
Jayden Parker
>Back before 'war' and real penalty people were being killed all the time. As part of ethnic conflicts which continue today, and which doesn't automatically mean that ancient people were fine with killing?
Lmao, so because >Dude war existed in the past Meant that taking a life was easy? >Your freedom and life is insanely threatened Don't forget you're a nihilist. Say >Your nothing and nothing is immediately threatened :D
Easton King
Just because you have a survival instrict doesn't mean there is meaning to life. You could be accidentally killed too at any moment. And taking life through out history has been easy. You think Hannibal slept badly because his army killed 100 men a minute in Battle of Cannae? >Your nothing and nothing is immediately threatened. Why would the words change? What are you talking about?
Jeremiah Cox
Well, I always took it to mean the lack of an intrinsic meaning to things left the burden on us to find meaning. Unfortunately this also happens to be the philosophy of larping.
Caleb Miller
>The presence of a survival instinct is proof of higher purpose Full pseud
Eli Sanders
>Just because you have a survival instrict doesn't mean there is meaning to life. It literally does by default, otherwise there would be no instinct >You could die at any minute That's not a refutation of the value of life, that just means life can be lost easily. >Hannibal Understood the value of life and sacrifice of war, which is why he was forced to leave Rome Alone after Rome invaded Carthage under the threat that Rome would massacre the civilian population of Carthage.
Warriors sacrifice themselves to war and conflict, it's not something you ever get used to it's just something you learn to deal with over time. No one understands the value of life more than a soldier. >Why would the word change Because life is nothing and freedom is nothing, they are based on morality and axiomatic assertions of meaning.
Caleb Martin
>I don't value life at all! >Gets scared when facing death >Can't obliterate life as though it were nothing >Cringes when he is confronted with the thought of death Please, nothing it more bourgie and pseud than nihilism.
Luke Lee
>It literally does by default, otherwise there would be no instinct. Why do you think this? And what about the people WHO do kill themselves?
Joseph Lewis
Certainly >Values are synthetically made And what exactly is WRONG with them being "synthetically made"? You don't reveal why such a thing is bad or undesirable just that it is.
>It makes it possible, that we all can agree upon, but that doesn't mean that "Life" has any objective intrinsic "Value" And this is the criterion you are regarding things by that wrecks the whole of your structure. There are, in essence, three schools of thought on the nature of the good and value: the intrinsic, the subjective, and the objective. Only the third is true. The intrinsic theory holds that the good is inherent in certain things or actions as such, regardless of their context and consequences, regardless of any benefit or injury they may cause to the actors and subjects involved. It is a theory that divorces the concept of “good” from beneficiaries, and the concept of “value” from valuer and purpose, claiming that the good is good in, by, and of itself. The subjective theory holds that the good bears no relation to the facts of reality, that it is the product of a man’s consciousness, created by his feelings, desires, “intuitions,” or whims, and that it is merely an “arbitrary postulate” or an “emotional commitment.” The intrinsic theory holds that the good resides in some sort of reality, independent of man’s consciousness; the subjectivist theory holds that the good resides in man’s consciousness, independent of reality.
The objective theory holds that the good is neither an attribute of “things in themselves” nor of man’s emotional states, but an evaluation of the facts of reality by man’s consciousness according to a rational standard of value. (Rational, in this context, means: derived from the facts of reality and validated by a process of reason.) The objective theory holds that the good is an aspect of reality in relation to man, and that it must be discovered, not invented, by man. Fundamental to an objective theory of values is the question: Of value to whom and for what? An objective theory does not permit "context-dropping" or “concept-stealing”; it does not permit the separation of “value” from “purpose,” of the good from beneficiaries, and of man’s actions from reason.
You are merely taking Nihilism that there is no intrinsic values, blanking out that it isn't the intrinsic theory you should even be opperating by.
Angel Diaz
>Why do I think this Because it's true >What about the people who kill themselves >Implying killing yourself is easy All of my keks
Justin Bell
It's not true at all. Explain to me why having a survival instinct means there is inherent meaning to life. >Implying killing yourself is easy. What? There are mental patients who gouge their own eyes out and pull their hair out and hurt themselves without blinking an eye. There are mass murderers who kill school children then themselves without too much thought. It might be easy for you, but not for some people. You are going through hoops trying to justify this.
Connor Sanchez
>You are merely taking Nihilism that *You are merely taking Nihilism to mean that
Leo Green
What is reality is bad question. This post tells us fuck all.
Julian Brown
>Explain to me why having a survival instinct means there is inherent meaning to life. Because if life wasn't valuable or meaningful you would sit in a chair and slowly starve yourself to avoid existence >The existence of schizophrenia and psychopathy "mental illness" means that life as a whole means nothing Nice nadir fallacy you placed on all of humanity tho. Psychopaths aren't human, and the severely mentally disabled aren't sane.
Aiden Mitchell
>Fuck all How? Did you read the rest of the post? The objective theory of value hard-refutes nihilism and not in my opinion either.
Noah Sullivan
Remember friend; don't opperate on his intrinsic premises when wrecking nihilism. This is not the approach to take.
Gavin Cox
>The existence of schizophrenia and psychopathy "mental illness" means that life as a whole means nothing I didn't say that. You said a survival instict must mean there is inherent value to life when not all people have a survival instict only healthy humans.