Ligotti Thread

>But even if ego-death is regarded as the optimum model for human existence, one of liberation from ourselves, it still remains a compromise with being, a concession to the blunder of creation itself. We should be able to do better, and we can. To have our egos killed off is second-best to killing off death and all the squalid byplay that flitters around it. So let all lands be small, and grower smaller and smaller until no lands are left where any human footstep need press itself upon the earth.

Is he right about this one? Would human life still be bad enough to warrant its annihilation even if we were all without egos?

I think the thing people miss about CatHR is that Ligotti's not writing a straightforward philosophical text; he's writing a horror novel in the form of a philosophical text (much like Dracula is a horror novel in the form of a collection of letters). It's a technique Negarestani almost certainly picked up from him, when either of them make these grandiose claims.

Hmm. This is an interesting take. Do you really think Ligotti is being less than serious when he writes something like this?

Not necessarily less serious - I think he ultimately believes in the central ideas of the book, which stem from his own depression and mental struggles - but there's an almost tongue-in-cheek quality in passages like the one you quote. He's very self-aware, so he knows how over-the-top it sounds at the same time as thinking it has some truth to it, and parts of it take the form of a very bleak joke.

I see what you're saying. That might explain why the book is subtitled "A Contrivance in Horror"

I picked up Teatro Grottesco and the stories range from mediocre to boring. Is this better?

Have read very little of his fiction, but it never seemed as good as CatHR to me.

I never considered this idea before you posted this, the book really does make more sense when you think of it that way.

sounds like striaght bullshit to me

he only sounds 'over-the-top' to idiot normies like you ?

seems perfectly rational and straightforward to me

is benatar also joking around and being tongue in cheek when he talks about the entire world ceasing?

dumb broad, you're probably just a dumb fuckin vagina person

I'm the faggot that recently made a ligotti thread asking for recommendations.

When I was 9 I was enjoying entertainment and I was unaware that organisms die. Zapffe's thesis doesn't really make sense.

>Zapffe's thesis doesn't really make sense.
what do u mean?

This is the perfectly example of how it helps to be as self-conscious as Ligotti, when you're as over-the-top as Ligotti.

I'm talking about 'distraction' as a internalized solution to the 'cosmic horror' which appears as the individual becomes conscious of the fact that they die.

I actually think this (i.e. the gradual reduction of the human population) would take place if only whites existed. As we become more educated, self-aware etc there is a tendency for birth rates to lower.

Unfortunately, in the current world while this is happening in Italy and other western nations, other cultures who are far more pro-existence and breed in a way that reflects that ideology (e.g. niggers and other shitskins) are simply outbreeding whites in their own countries.

Agreed, though I do think the notion of "corporate horror" is a good strategy for contemporary horror writers, since Lovecraft's "space, deep oceans and exotic countries" shtick is no longer viable since those things aren't mysterious or scary any more.

Kill the ego is literally kill ourselves.

You just made Nick Land orgasm

sounds like normie a posteriori rationalisation to me desu.

filthy wageslave civilians always try to deradicalise everything

>When I was 9 I was unaware that organisms die. Zapffe's thesis doesn't really make sense.
Maybe being retarded is the ultimate defence against truth.

(you)
Lets say for the sake of the argument that I'm retarded.

>child plays with his shitty car/doll before X age where X is the average age at which children become aware organisms die.
>omg, distraction, comsic horror, zapffe buzzword bingo

Not to say that other creatures also are full of energy when they are young.

>implying such a child wouldn't be miserable if you put it in an environment without distraction

What fucking environment without distraction. Children eat their own poop for fun you dimwit.

Put a young child in an isolation cell for long enough with nothing but daily required calories in Soylent and they will experience horror.

How do you know ?

the effects of involuntary solitary confinement are well documented anone

>the effects of involuntary solitary confinement are well documented anone
maybe on adult individuals who have not been in silitary confinement their whole lives.

it doesn't really seem invalid to me when you take in to account all the other mechanisms you use to avoid cosmic horror, but I guess you could say it's not distraction as much as it is just becoming happier

It doesn't really but it makes me question it.
Each of the other points can also be seen as effects of different causes.
>but I guess you could say it's not distraction as much as it is just becoming happier
please expand

not the other user but you should know you're a retard. Take an intro psych course literally anywhere and you'll read about multiple examples where children have essentially grown up without human interaction and change of environment and the result is physically deformed feral kids that die young

they will be mentally retarded, they need environments that they can play and learn in otherwise they'll be stunted. they won't "experience horror" because they won't be able to comprehend it.

It's kinda hard being on Veeky Forums and having 0 reading comprehension I get it. I'm talking about controlled studies not tales ala Freud-san.There have ben none and you know why. So fucking many factors come into play, you don't get to just choose cosmic horror because you read Photoschopen Hour
My whole point is that distraction comes before cosmic horror in most probably all cases.

Conspiracy Against the Human Race is a book that is both about pessimistic philosophy in general and Ligotti's own take on it but it's also a book meant to entertain and be read.

He's not just presenting arguments with his own slant, he is also being over the top and comedic with some of the things he says; his beliefs are sincere but he's trying to amuse and interest you with how they're presented so his comments are exaggerated or posed in grandiose ways to both poke fun at himself and at how over the top the beliefs are.

But, he does this while still trying to sincerely related why he believes these things and what exactly he believes. I wouldn't parse this book word for word and line by line for the actual argument but instead, paragraphs and pages as a whole.

I mean, Ligotti himself said that the chief goal of all fiction is to entertain, then inform or what have you.

You picked the worst entry point possible user. The best place to start with Ligotti is most certainly Songs of a Dead Dreamer or else My Work Is Not Yet Done.

Each starts with stories that are easier to understand, appreciate and follow and to get you into the mind set you need for his books. Songs of a Dead Dreamer, in particular, is perfect as you start off with The Frolic.

The Frolic is a very conventional horror story, written very conventionally for its time (1980s~) with a simple set up; a prison psychologist is talking to his wife about a meeting he had today with one of the inmates. It thematically starts off very safe and familiar and then the story slowly distorts and shifts, just like the tone distorts and shifts, as Ligotti's ideas are introduced.

Songs of A Dead Dreamer has more unique voices and more styles/ways of expression than any other piece of his work. Grimscribe, meanwhile, goes into his views in much greater detail and starts creating the thematic keys Ligotti uses a lot.

You read the first story, Purity, I assume so you may have noticed the usage of the colour 'green'. In Ligotti's work, colours such as green, red, white and black all have unique tones and implications which you only really find by reading cross his books. Likewise, when he starts to talk about puppets/masks/clowns, the greater the amount these adjectives are used, the closer to the end/a climax that story is.

My Work is Not Yet Done, meanwhile, is like The Frolic in that it's construction and premise is very normal and easy to get your head around. I read that first, then SoADD and if I had to go again, I'd read SoADD first.

You can search for Nethescurial and The Frolic online. Look for 'em, give 'em a read and if you like what you see, read SoADD straight through.

Hope this helps!

Google feral children user.

Anyway, lets put this another way. A child just randomly plays with things to amuse themselves but why are they naturally curious? Is it an epigenetic defense mechanism against existential angst? Is it due to their high intelligence?

Who knows. What we do know however is that Zapffe was particularly speaking about adults (as things like sublimation don't really work for kids since they lack the ability to elegantly express themselves) but kids also ask things like why and how a lot, showing they have an interest/fascination with their state of being and why they exist.

It's just most people tend not to tell kids they have no meaning and they don't fucking matter because who the fuck would say that to their child and also what would that knowledge do to one so young?

Feral childeren have shown anxiety attacks intense enough to cause severe catatonia. How is that not horror?

Brainlet detected.
Get some textbooks.