The Brothers Karamazov

>tfw reading 'The Grand Inquisitor' on a Saturday evening
>followed by Zossima's story on a Sunday morning
>feelsedifyingman.joh

die blognorm

remind me of this "active love" part

OP BTFO

P&V is objectively better than Garnett. You don't need to try fitting in this hard.

I went into detail in a thread a couple days ago about the good and bad of Garnett's work and about the problems with Pevear and Volokhonsky; it's still in the archive somewhere. In short, Garnett was sloppy sometimes, but her work flows well in English, whereas P&V make twice as much translational error and their work is wooden and lifeless
Also you are projecting about someone trying to fit in

tell about Iván Fiódorovich, is he dead?

why did Grúchenka leave without kissing Katenka's hand?

P&V translation is much more precise than Garnett, it lacks in literary execution only. Garnett mistranslated a fuckton and literally editorialized some parts. They're both shit, but you'd have to be a contrarian retard to recommend Constance's miscarriage of a work.

Yes, you can totally tell that Ivan is dead, because the events of the book took place over 130 years ago

>.joh
what did he mean hereby

I mistyped .jpg and left it as a bit of serendipity given the importance of the Gospel of John (esp. 12:24) to the book

wait till you read 'the devi'

The Grand Inquistor chapter gets a lot of hype which it deserves but Ivan's conversation with the Devil later on is best. This book is very solid.

I laughed so much when the father makes a fool of himself in front of Zossima

I also agree you can empathise with everyone, esp the brothers, and realise that you've been each of them in turn during your own life.

Why do you think I haven't read it yet? I've read it several times

This. The Devil chapter made me feel like I was having a brain fever myself. Incredible stuff.

i loved this book so much, but the ending was a little underwhelming in my very humble opinion

>mfw reading From talks and homilies of the elder zosima

>mitya's dream when he has a nap after his questioning

There's enough happiness in a single day.

Is this better than Crime and Punishment because I just finished that and it's my favorite book of all time now

>when Ilyusha thinks hes being punished by god for feeding a dog a needle in a piece of bread

I've only read the first 100 pages of C&P but from what I understand, I think people like The Brothers Karamazov more, but only slightly

Why is part 10 so unappreciated? Every interaction between Kolya and Alyosha is perfect. Hell, everything involving Alyosha and the kids is perfect.

>as contrarian as it gets
good job, you're now a pseud

P&V. Ignore the contrarian pseudos.

>Avsey

Do you refer to the book as the Karamazov Brothers as well?

I liked CP more, Karamazov is good but overrated as all fuck and is sort of unfinished

Hmmm sounds accurate, just so I know I can trust you, what's you preferred Iliad translation?

So what do you guys think about Smerdyakov? How would describe his character? Is he a kind of savant unable to reach his true potential due to factors of his environment (abusive and neglectful upbringing, mental health issues, class prejudice in Russian society, etc)? Or is he a kind of marionette animated by a vulgar, half-baked interpretation of Ivan's philosophy? Is he a Satanic, Iago type figure? I hear the 2nd thing suggested a lot, but there is a shrewdness about him, and there seems to a degree of irony and mockery in everything he says to Ivan.

I know a quality post when I see one.

Is there anything wrong with reading TBK as your first Dostoy or should I read some of his other stuff first?

Surely if C&P is your favourite book of all time you should just give TBK a read anyway even if it's marginally worse

I think C&P is better then the Mario Brothers Karamazow.
BK just felt so constructed, every brother standing for a different milieu existing in russian society at this time. Plus it is just so fucking long with many many things (Sosima telling about his life) that just drags on and on. I liked it well enough, but C&P is faster paced (still slow af, but that is just Dostjewski) and the idea behind the novel, the main topic is clearer, just more visible then in the Bros.

We all think of the title as The Brothers Karamazov since that's how Garnett rendered Бpáтья Кapaмáзoвы and all English translators (until Avsey) went with that. There's nothing partiularly elevated about the word order in the original (unlike how it sounds from Garnett), and Avsey's decision to go with The Karamazov Brothers is more commonplace (and equivalent). I definitely still have it in my head like Garnett did it, but I appreciate the insight Avsey offered from the title, of all things

>when he tells snegiryov to get a better boy after he dies.

No you're good. Just jump in my man. It's worth it.

Yuo should be able to comprehend it fine, as long as you can keep Russian names straight in their multiplicity. The thing about reading Karamazov first is that anything else of his, good as it may be, has to live up to its standard instead of on its own merit

I am thinking about buying this book too, can you summarize it in 1 or 2 lines? thnx

fuck atheism religion is gud

It's my first real Dostoevsky. I read the first 100 pages of Crime & Punishment in a shitty translation, but just kind of skimmed through, didn't absorb much. I recommend reading TBK alongside some secondary literature, even the Sparknotes of it makes the experience way better as you finish each section/chapter

P&V for faith to the original. Constance Garnett for literary context. Every writer in English who said anything worth saying about Dostoevsky read the Garnett translation. P&V is good too (I’ve read both) and altogether cleaner, but they are more or less masters of marketing as opposed to masterful translators.

>Read BK four years ago
>No recollection of Smerdyakov

Is this because I read the Garnett translation or because I have dementia?

dementia

Theodicy is the worst thing.

I'm about to finish TBK, on the trial section now. I've been reading it for over a month on and off (read some other books in the middle). I feel like there are so many really important ideas in it that I haven't understood but I still think I've gotten a lot out of it. I think it's the kind of book that should be read slowly

I guess it's just because it's not as unique as the other parts of the book? I agree though. I loved Alyosha's interaction with the kids just as much as the Grand Inquisitor and the Ivan segments. I think you can really see Dostoevsky's desire to create a better future in his portrayal of the kids and it's very inspiring

I agree, the Iliad is better

.Job

Thanks anons. I think I'll pick up a copy this weekend.

Any recs for hardcover P&V versions?

>P&V
War and Peace
otherwise avoid

Not Hardcovers but the Vintage Classics line look very nice.
>War and Peace
P&V is best for Dostoyevsky not Tolstoy.

>P&V is best for Dostoyevsky
Based on what, looks? That's the basis for your recommendation
Their sole point of translational merit is in preserving Tolstoy's deliberate repetition in W&P where other translators resorted to synonyms and eliminated the repetition. Aside from that, it really should be illegal for publishers to print their translations on anything but thin sheets of wood, clunky as their results are

>Based on what
Best on expressing Dostoyevsky's prose
>looks? That's the basis for your recommendation
Well you're a disingenuous little fuck aren't you? I never said that.

>it really should be illegal for publishers to print their translations
It should be illegal to have such a pathetic hate boner for P&V. I see you in every single Russian Veeky Forums thread bitching about them.

How to become less like Ivan and more like Alyosha? How to believe in something I don't believe in?

Try to apply a bit of his actions into a full day of yours.
Post results.

Why? Ivan is by far the most interesting character tbqh.

>Or is he a kind of marionette animated by a vulgar, half-baked interpretation of Ivan's philosophy? Is he a Satanic
Basically. He represents Ivan's radical ideas just like the Devil does.

STOP LYING, ESPECIALLY TO YOURSELF. AND LOVE ALL MANKIND, MOTHERFUCKERS

Anything but P&V

>why be good when you can be interesting

Why not

I want to marry Alyosha, he's just too perfect.

Ayyyy

shit, hiro might as well delete Veeky Forums

No idea of how to write is present in their work. They completely suck the life out of whatever they are translating. Also their le "exact translations" sometimes misses what the author was trying to say for whatever the "exact" translation of a word was. I am taking about their work in general not just TBK. Also they are truely the reddit translators if such a thing is possible.

She wants her to Dom her, pull her hair and call her a slut

I bet he had a soft pink boipucci

>Also they are truely the reddit translators if such a thing is possible.

how

Ivan isn't evil.

What's the best german translation of this? I have the old Nötzel one

Swetlana Geier by far.

ecranizations of russian novels are surprisingly good
i was really enjoying myself for the first time in years of my depression when ive seen them - you have to see them

I read the Avsey translation with a copy of P&V on hand to reference when I hit interesting or awkwardly worded passages and found that while I generally preferred the Avsey, P&V handled some passages in a way that perhaps helped me make more sense of the work as a whole. I also referenced the MacAndrews translation sometimes, and would found that I probably would have gotten a pretty similar experience out of any of them, so I'd say just go with whichever one you like best stylistically, and if you're autistic like me just keep another translation on hand. It was a great experience regardless.

i think BK is better as it seemed to me to give me more emotional treats per chapter. both have very strong overarching messages that changed my life.

That feel when you are russian and can read original. It's not all bad I guess.

They both compliment each other in a way, as do all of Dosto’s works. C&P is my favorite though and I read BK first.

The best part is you know he hasn't read all these

My favorite quote from the book

Huh, it occurs to me that I have quite a few thougts on this question after thinking about it, and I think I have something fairly insightful about how it relates to some other aspects of the book, but it makes me realize there's just no way I''m sharing any of it on this wretched board. It seems like I've turned a corner with Veeky Forums, or without it. Some of you are alright and so on