Is there any refutation or good life philosophy to adopt against Nihilism?

>certain things are objective (maths for example)
>My primary claim is that there are objective truths about the world that we have the faculty to discern them. This faculty being "reason"
Hahah what the fuck

No. Things being subjective or objective depend on you being those things or not. The color red is subjective. The wavelength of light, the cones of our eyes and our visual cortex are objective. Us being the neural correlate of the experience in which red manifests would be our subjectivity.

What you mentioned in your previous post alluded to relative truth vs universal truth, not objective truth vs subjective truth. Or at least that seemed to be the case.

No such thing as subjective or objective truth or relative or universal truth.

What are you talking about? Those have definitions. Look them up. If you wanna argue one of those does not exist, go ahead. I am just pointing out differences between those concepts.

Yeah the definitions are correct. But there are no "truths".

It's going that one step beyond and realising that the rest of the universe should matter as little to you as you do to it. That star that burned out five billion years ago on the other side of the galaxy has no impact on your life, so why should you worry about it? If this existence is all we have, then we might as well do the best we can with it and accept our biological limitations. I don't need to be relevant to the rest of the universe to find happiness or a purpose for myself.

Pretty good.

Simple; one merely need recognize that life is an end in itself.
There is only one fundamental alternative in the universe: existence or non-existence—and it pertains to a single class of entities: to living organisms. The existence of inanimate matter is unconditional, the existence of life is not: it depends on a specific course of action. Matter is indestructible; it changes its forms, but it cannot cease to exist. It is only a living organism that faces a constant alternative: the issue of life or death. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action. If an organism fails in that action, it dies; its chemical elements remain, but its life goes out of existence. It is only the concept of “Life” that makes the concept of “Value” possible. It is only to a living entity that things can be good or evil. Only a living entity can have goals or can originate them. And it is only a living organism that has the capacity for self-generated, goal-directed action. The goal of that action, the ultimate value which, to be kept, must be gained through its every moment, is the organism’s life. And in the case of Man with his unique conceptual faculty of volitional conciousness; happiness.

Out of any -ism under the sun; nihilism is the simplest to undercut and discard. Hell the very word is a contradiction in terms; by it's very nature it possessing its suffix of "ism" isn't valid.
Nihilism is a pseudointellectual act of mental annihilation. It's even a part of the word: 'nihil'

Nihilism is the rejection of philosophy outright, because nihilism is the claim that no answers are possible. That precludes any philosophical development. Once you have decided that no answers are possible, philosophy has become a waste of time. But further, if no moral values are possible, neither is life; value is not arbitrary but a epistemological necessity of life. So the only consistent nihilists are those who commit suicide. Nihilism has no answer to the axiom that life is an end in itself. Nihilism cannot defend the axiom that it implicitly purports; that life doesn't mean anything. It is mental destruction for sake of destruction. Hatred of the good for being the good.
Nihilists like to prattle that it, by it's very nature is impossible to refute, but nihilsim doesn't even need to be "refuted" because all it needs is an indentification of what it actually is: an anti-concept.

>should matter as little to you as you do to it
This is some pseud absurdity. We cannot "matter" to a thing that is not concious. Material reality is just a simple existent.
The immensity of the universe is merely a question of scale, nothing more.
>If this existence is all we have, then we might as well do the best we can with it and accept our biological limitations.
Are you under the impression that this is what nihilism means? It is't.

>This is some pseud absurdity. We cannot "matter" to a thing that is not concious. Material reality is just a simple existent. The immensity of the universe is merely a question of scale, nothing more.

Yes, things without minds do not care about you because they cannot. That is the point. You do not matter to them in the sense that they do not recognize you and that you can do nothing to affect them, just as they should not matter to you because they cannot affect you either.

>Are you under the impression that this is what nihilism means? It is't.

What I am addressing here is that nihilism drives people to despair because think that nothing has any meaning, which is ultimately pointless in itself because it does not change the reality of our existence. If the best thing we can get out of our brains driven by chemical reactions are positive feelings, then we might as well roll with it. Happiness and hope is what makes life worth living.

Why dont you just kill yourself then?

Not an intellectually honest one. Once you jettison this requirement then you can parrot existentialism or whatever positive narrative the normies make of the world this decade and delude yourself that you're right.

growing up and having to make money to survive.
Either put in the effort, or kill yourself now.
If you become a wageslave and put in half the effort, you're still not a nihilist.
If you truly believed in nothing you wouldn't even be using money or shopping at the grocery store.

>What I am addressing here is that nihilism drives people to despair because think that nothing has any meaning
Correct. Even better however is recognizing that nihilism is a worthless anti-concept in the first place.

Bump

This doesn't exactly refute Nihilism. It actually kind of helps it.

How? How on Earth cana concept survive the designation of "anti-concept"? It cannot.

That designation does fuck all to defuse Nihilism. Doesn't matter if you call it a "anti-concept" why would that make it not true. At best it tries to show that it is not a useful philosophy to follow when it can be.

The entire work solidifies in me what I desire when I begin to overreach. These two quotes are just mission statements of a sort, but easy to affix to situations where the glut of information does you no good. The bit on the statement "everything is false," and "nothing is true" is pertinent here.

Basically, most Greeks and Romans and other cultures in the past figured this shit out as nonsensical, but contemporary industrial societies took it on as a means to explain what they knew could not be a final explanation. And now nihilism is either a pejorative or an feigned aesthetic.

Here you are, fuckwits:

"Scepticism is an ability to set out oppositions among things which appear and are thought of in any way at all, an ability by which, because of the equipollence in the opposed objects and accounts, we come first to suspension of judgement and afterwards to tranquillity."

"The causal principle of scepticism we say is the hope of becoming tranquil. Men of talent, troubled by the anomaly in things and puzzled as to which of them they should rather assent to, came to investigate what in things is true and what false, thinking that by deciding these issues they would become tranquil.
The Chief constitutive principle of scepticism is the claim that to every account an equal account is opposed; for it is from this, we think, that we come to hold no beliefs."

Yes. Bertrand Russell - A Free Man's Worship
www3.nd.edu/~afreddos/courses/264/fmw.htm

>Nihilism itself; if everything is meaningless then why not?
>happiness and hope is what makes life worth meaning
literally sub-camus tier philosophy which simply ignores the problem
“Why should I?” can effortlessly be answered with “Why should I not?”, and “Why should I not?” can just as easily be answered with “Why should I?”, but to pick one question over the other would be to grant your argument an unwarranted favor. To attempt to solve the depressed Nihilist's dilemma by telling him he need only to rotate the question would ultimately be no better than telling him he would be happier if he’d woken up on the right side of the bed. “Just be happy” is advice of profound uselessness, and it will be met with profound indifference each time it is given.

If by chance there is a god, I would personally rather go through life not knowing and not hoping. If death is not deletion, I would want to prove to myself that I have the nerve to face my involuntary deletion nonetheless. And if it is not deletion, and there is a god, then this life may be my only chance to face the struggle of godlessness and see who I am in the face of such trouble. The problem is my property. That will is the only thing which I find even remotely close to a solution. This is what I believe it means to live for one’s self in the present rather than for the idea of eternity.

I can explain exactly how it diffuses it.
First let's take the dictionary definition of Nihilism.
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nihilism
Nihilist's oft cited claim is that life has no intrinsic value. "Intrinsic" values being the criterion Nihilists are regarding things by is the thing that wrecks the whole of their shoddy structure.
There are, in essence, three schools of thought on the nature of the good and value: the intrinsic, the subjective, and the objective. Only the third is true. The intrinsic theory holds that the good is inherent in certain things or actions as such, regardless of their context and consequences, regardless of any benefit or injury they may cause to the actors and subjects involved. It is a theory that divorces the concept of “good” from beneficiaries, and the concept of “value” from valuer and purpose, claiming that the good is good in, by, and of itself.
The subjective theory holds that the good bears no relation to the facts of reality, that it is the product of a man’s consciousness, created by his feelings, desires, “intuitions,” or whims, and that it is merely an “arbitrary postulate” or an “emotional commitment.”
The intrinsic theory holds that the good resides in some sort of reality, independent of man’s consciousness; the subjectivist theory holds that the good resides in man’s consciousness, independent of reality.

The objective theory holds that the good is neither an attribute of “things in themselves” nor of man’s emotional states, but an evaluation of the facts of reality by man’s consciousness according to a rational standard of value. (Rational, in this context, means: derived from the facts of reality and validated by a process of reason.) The objective theory holds that the good is an aspect of reality in relation to man, and that it must be discovered, not invented, by man. Fundamental to an objective theory of values is the question: Of value to whom and for what? An objective theory does not permit "context-dropping" or “concept-stealing”; it does not permit the separation of “value” from “purpose,” of the good from beneficiaries, and of man’s actions from reason.

You are merely taking Nihilism to mean that there are no intrinsic values, blanking out the realization that it isn't the intrinsic theory you should even be opperating by.

And that is a hard-refutation my friend.

>diffuses it
*defuses

This is like bad word play and doesn't refute actual Nihilism. Forget any dictionary definition, that isn't actually connected to the problem here. Also there are many 'definitions' of Nihilism. All this intrinsic, subjective, objective stuff doesn't exist. What the true nature of the world is like reality or rationality isn't real. Science tells us fuck all about 'reality'. There is no theory you should be operating by. Where did you get this stuff from?

>Forget any dictionary definition
And here we are. The absurdity that Nihilists always resort to once they've been btfo: Moving-the-goalposts to what constitutes Nihilsim.
>Also there are many 'definitions' of Nihilism.
And why do you think that is numbnuts?

I'll go even further by indentifying the intellectual culprit involved, quote:
>"You must attach clear, specific meanings to words, i.e. be able to identify their referents in reality. This is a precondition, without which neither critical judgement or thinking of any kind is possible. All philosophical con games count on your using words as vague approximations. You must not take a catch phrase, or any abstract statement, as if it were approximate. Take it literally. Don’t translate it, don’t glamorize it, don’t make the mistake of thinking, as many people do: “Oh, nobody could possibly mean this!” and then proceed to endow it with some whitewashed meaning of your own. Take it straight, for what it does say and mean."

So tell me what Nihilism means to you; and I'll rupture that too.

Dadaism

Intrinsic and objective are identical dummy

Goodbye argument

>what is an equivocation
Display in what respect they are retard.

There is no grand meaning to existance.
Grand is higher, permanent goal. Higher can't by definition be on this planet or accomplished by humankind, because humankind doesn't matter and can be eradicated at any moment thus the meaning isn't permanent. The meaning can't be 'created' because any meaning that is created by human consciousness doesn't matter. The meaning has to have always been.

Now don't do language play. Give me meaning.

If someone was torturing you and gave you a choice between them stopping or continuing, you're going to ask them to stop.

People want to avoid suffering
People want to be happy

There are principles inherent in the constition of a human being with its brain and body and soul which move people in the direction of happiness

Nihilism is simply being tired of whatever program you were fed as a kid, as a youth, as an adult, and coming to the faulty conclusion that "because I have never been given a good reason to live, it doesn't exist"

It's just a defense mechanism
I would never judge people for it, in fact they make lovely depressing drinking partners

But life itself is a value
If you are alive, you will towards this or that, it is impossible to be without value
The moment you were actually nihilistic, your organism would disintegrate and evaporate into oblivion

The motivation required to conceive of nihilism, to say "i agree with that" as an affirmation, to let other people know about it, these are all expenditures of vital energy which belie the so-called anti-values of itself

If heaven is real that is refutation to Nihilism. It's a ulimate goal for mankind to get to heaven. It's permanent. The life and 'work' you did on Earth had a reason. The work is forever and your goal in being in heaven is forever. Even this doesn't refute Nihlism fully.

You are so far from the mark. You will never 'get' it.

What is the value of 'getting it'?

>(((nihilism)))

>There is no grand meaning to existance
You are just taking "intrinsic" and replacing it with grand ie extrinsic.
Life is an end in itself. Asking for an extrinsic OR intrinsic meaning to be defined is a fallacious absurdity.
>Higher can't by definition be on this planet or accomplished by humankind, because humankind doesn't matter and can be eradicated at any moment thus the meaning isn't permanent.
>assertion
>assertion
>assertion
Why in the living fuck do you translate man's mortality and inpermanence to a direct proof of Nihilism?
>any meaning that is created by human consciousness doesn't matter
>matter
To WHAT and in what respect?
A. I do not think you were cognizant of any theory but an intrinsic one.
B. So you're sticking your fingers in your ears

Nihilism usually means Subjective Nihilism, the denial of Self through thinking the locus of Truth and Good is in the Phenomenal world, and the despair that comes with the inevitable realization that the Phenomenal world is illusory.

It's Kant's noumenal world that is a made up illusion, not the material reality.

The reason Nietzsche said Nihilism is a characteristic of the modern age after the decline of Christianity is because the grand goal of going to heaven was removed. Give me the meaning we can attain if the atom bombs go off and humanity is no more. What was the value of the human race.

Presumably all the people who were killed in the atom bombs go to heaven (or hell) based on the way they lived in the Christianity - Nihilism refutation.

The noumenal world is a world independent of the senses, and Kant said it may exist. It's unknowable and doesn't give meaning to humanity.

Capitalist excellence and meritocratic hero worship replace it sufficiently enough. I argue it does one better.

>and Kant said it may exist
Indicating it was obviously just some invention of his to validate one of his contradictory premises.

What do you mean?

Oh excuse, I meant
>grand goal of going to heaven was removed
Is what it replaces

*excuse me

>That statue always irked me; if you don't want to sculpt the taint and balls; just put a loincloth on the fucker. Don't turn one of the legs into a monstrosity

Bump

And how does one evaluate what is rational?

How does one find what is True? Derive the facts from reality? Specifically how do you derive what is factually true about any thing?

There is no objective/intrinsic value to anything (see ; intrinsic and objective should be one and the same) If things dont have a value or definition in and of themselves, how can we know it is what we say it is?

If we hold up a ruler and say this is a ruler, who is defining what the ruler is? The Universe? “Facts”? What are these elusive facts you rational reasonable Enlightened science-thumpers keep reaching for?

All the things in the world dont appear to be concrete to me, they are not complete. There is not a list of facts that define anything perfectly.

Even my belief in an entirely subjective experience can never be proven to me

Yet unlike you I dont rely on facts, a clinging wish for objective certainty

Einstein when approached with the contradictions of quantum mechanics said

GOD DOESNT PLAY DICE

so far physicists are in concurrence: Einstein was wrong. His tireless search for objective truth was decimated, searching for God through physics, scribbling madly til he croaked

why would you want to refute the truth.

This whole thread is so fucking cringey holy fucking shit. And I'm sick of seeing this same retarded question over and over again. Just fucking kill yourselves.

Are they actually being buried alive? It looks awfully shallow

It depends on what do you mean with nihilism.
If you mean "life has no intrinsic meaning" (as in "no teleological nature") I can't really disagree. You may want to look into religion or similar stuff.
If you mean "there's no objective morality" then I suggest you read my boi Kant as well as moral philosophy.
If you're a moron whose only source of philosophy is the internet and who conflates the two like this mongoloid here then kys desu

>And how does one evaluate what is rational? How does one find what is True? Derive the facts from reality? Specifically how do you derive what is factually true about any thing?
Reason is the faculty that identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses. Reason integrates man’s perceptions by means of forming abstractions or conceptions, thus raising man’s knowledge from the perceptual level, which he shares with animals, to the conceptual level, which he alone can reach. The method which reason employs in this process is logic, and logic is the art of non-contradictory identification.
A quote:
>"Whatever the degree of your knowledge, these two, existence and consciousnes, are axioms you cannot escape. These two are the irreducible primaries implied in any action you undertake, in any part of your knowledge and in its sum. Whether you know the shape of a pebble or the structure of a solar system, the axioms remain the same: that it exists and that you know it. To exist is to be something, as distinguished from the nothing of non-existence, it is to be an entity of a specific nature made of specific attributes. Centuries ago, the man who was the greatest of your philosophers [he means Aristotle], has stated the formula defining the concept of existence and the rule of all knowledge: A is A. A thing is itself. You have never grasped the meaning of his statement. I am here to complete it: Existence is Identity, Consciousness is Identification."

>Yet unlike you I dont rely on facts
AHAHAHAHA did you really just post this. You nihilists are a riot.

Respond to and if you care to.

Nietzsche was a nihilist

Epicureanism.
/thread

>certain things are objective (maths for example)
oh boy....

Meaning cannot be inherent because it is an emergent property constructed on top of intelligence. The search for meaning on such an atomic level is pointless but this isn't grounds for dismissal of meaning in general which is a thing that effects the decision process of intelligent agents (like animals or computers). You wouldn't look for wetness in individual hydrogen and oxygen molecules and you don't dismiss the property of wetness because it doesn't exist on lower levels.

I don't fully understand the categorical imperative is referring to when that argument is made though l. Maybe I'm a brainlet but surely all decisions made by humans are explainable either through a cognitive sense or through some sort of brain chemistry explanation.

Camus's interpretation of Nietzsche in his "The Rebel". One of better things we have against Nihilism, still not good enough.

salvation waits, user

...

This. Nihilism is so simple to btfo.

Let's first define meaning. Meaning is what something was constructed to do. The meaning of a hammer is to hammer, as that is the purpose of it's construction. We are made of multiple diffrent kinds of "hammers". All with their different purposes. The heart exist to beat, the lungs exist to breath. Going on a deeper level, mithoconndrias exist to power the cell, the DNA exists to instruct the creation of beings. Humans are just collectives of "hammers", working together so they can fulfill their meaning.
The more complex a being is, the more needs it have to fulfill. As we're social animals, we need to fulfill our social needs.
Check out the related picture. That's pretty much all the meanings of your life.

You fell into the trap. This is not the meaning anyone here is talking about. The meaning can't be 'created' like a hammer. You are at the early stages of the problem. This is the answer of someone who hasn't look into it.
Read this. If you destroy a hammer it's purpose vanishes same with a human. Meaning can't stop. There always has to be meaning.

senpai his knob looks like a doplhin blud

Apparently it's a cloud or some shit. The designer was a fucking moron. It makes his leg look fucked up. All because he didn't want to sculpt the taint and balls. Just put a loincloth cloth on him or something.

So becuase everything could end that means everything doesn't matter? I'd disagree. Your looking at time linearly and makes the presumption that meaning most be forever to be important.
Everything that has happened exist in it's own timeframe, meaning that a meaning full action will last "forever" in spacetime. Just becuase you can't see the past doesn't mean that it isn't there.
Also, if you fulfilled your meanings for 2 years before the end of the world, you have still lived a better and more meaningfull existence compared to someone who didn't.

Forgot pic

indeed what a stupid piece of "modernity" sculpture

Also, meaning is forever as everything is constructed by other things for the purpose of achieving something else. If a stone is dropped it falls. Falling is the meaning of a system constituting of the stone and gravity. So you can't really destroy meaning as it's a feature of existence.

Nihilism has really bad arguments in its favor so I don't see why we should begin by refuting it.

Reminder that all it needs as an identification of the anti-concept it is. Refutation is possible but secondary and unnecessary.

>Reminder that all it needs as an identification of the anti-concept it is.
What?

>if you fulfilled your meanings for 2 years before the end of the world
No. And the 'meanings' didn't matter. They don't exist anymore if the world ended.
That kind of meaning doesn't matter. Nihilism is about existance of primarily humans. If a meteor hits the Earth and humans are eradicated there still has to be a goal.

Imagine being this much of a brainlet IMAGINE.

You don't have to refute anything because philosophy is just a linguistic construct and doesn't actually exist.

We are the Cosmos experiencing itself or something who cares.

What a moronic post. A hammer is a tool. It is built by someone with a specific purpose in mind. You can't say the same about humans. Who built us? For what purpose? What is the teolological nature of life? Why do we live and die? You can't simply reduce "life" to its organic functions, it doesn't explain shit.

Except it literally does.

>The meaning of life, the reason of our existence, is defecating and feeling things
Almonds = activated

Lel

pfft

read up on arguments against physicalism. you've been brainwashed by internet atheists into thinking mental events and consciousness have to come from material things

Thinking is just the product of chemical reactions within the brain. Until you can prove there is something else that drives human thought then nihilism stands.

Which came first nihilism or depression? Did you know if you work on curing your depression often times you'll stop being a nihilist? Funny thing.

I don't see how that would make nihilism still stand. Would you suddenly have more meaning if your emotions were caused by the holy ghost?You'd still enjoy the same shit and put vlaue on the same shit.

you know if this was the first or second response I might've laughed but seeing it after 3 legit attempts of discussion I think I hate you people

If heaven or hell was real your whole life, your actions would have a permanent goal. After you die you go permanently to heaven, this can't be taken away from you. This is why we are in a Nihilistic era after the decline of Christianity. Christianity was a cure for Nihilism. There is a goal for life = Heaven. And your actions on Earth matter because that determines if you get to heaven.

>being a cool dude is only a nice goal if you get cake at the end
jeez

This. religion not being as important leads initially to nihilism but you'd have to be a fucking retard to not realize philosophy from then on points towards meaning for the individual instead of continuing in nihilism.

Morality can exist within society, there are consequences built into it that guide us on proper behaviour. What I'm saying is that there is nothing objective that causes morality within humans. That's not to say subjective reality is any less important to the lives of many, but there is no provable higher guidance to human behaviour.