Writing as a job

Is it even possible to make a living from writing anymore?

>have something unique to say? well it'll be too unfamiliar to readers so we won't even bother publishing it
>have social media buzz and/or presence? great we'll publish your book that will collect dust on store shelves or maybe be purchased by two people a week (nationwide)
>want to take full control and self-publish on Amazon? okay have fun standing out in an ocean of $.99 trash

When I think of writing as a job I don't think of some romanticized, imaginary lifestyle living in Brooklyn and being a socialite that spends $5000 a week on luxury items. I get that books have not been profitable in a long time and I'm not wanting to strike gold with Twilight or 50 Shades. But what's the point of even trying when the only venues are guaranteed to bring in absolutely nothing?

Has anyone on Veeky Forums achieved any real success?

Bumping this out of interest

>is it even possible.

Check the archive. No it isn't realistic unless you're willing to shill yourself to plebs.

Not OP what about some kind of technical writing or reading

It is not worth doing any creative endeavor for money anymore. We've reached beyond artistry. You must be willing to sell your soul to make money now. In other words, your art will become like any other job, tiring and degrading and soulless.

Don't mix work and art anymore. Everyone complaining about how they can't make moeny doing the thing they love, well you shouldn't. Give that shit away for free. It will reach a broader audience, people will see it and appreciate it. You'll have to work at 7-11 during the day, like everyone fuckin else though.
There is no escape from the hell of work.

Artists need to stop complaining that they can't make money with their art.

Was the point to make money in the first place?
Wasn't it because there was some fire burning inside you that was ready to murder someone to get expressed? Don't you just want to say what you feel, or write/draw/compose the visions in your mind because you consider them beautiful and worth sharing?
Fuck bringing money and art together.
I have committed myself to making zero dollars doing what I love. If I wanted to make money I would become a business man. Money only poisons my motives when I think "but this probably won't sell" or some bullshit like that.

I'm so tired of people complaining about how the "music scene" or the state of literature is impossible to make money with anymore.

WELL FUCKING GOOD, NOW MAYBE PEOPLE CAN MAKE WHAT THEY REALLY WANT AND NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT MONEY, HUH?

Nobody actually wants to create art and add beauty to the world do they? Too worried about a paycheck.

There is no escaping the nightmare of employment. Be one with your fellow man and accept the hell, and be motivated to add to the beauty of this dark world.

protip: if you actually succeed in doing this, in making something purely for the love of it, you might get money for it. but you can't believe this beforehand. you have to totally submit to the fact that you might have to work menial shit jobs the rest of your days and do what you enjoy only in your free time.

> I don't think of some romanticized, imaginary lifestyle
> I'm not wanting to strike gold


self deception
you want it
now is the time to achieve it instead of dicking around on malaysian flip book cafes

That's what I'm saying. And to shill yourself to plebs you have to water down your writing so they can grasp its meaning. And when you do that you also sacrifice the spirit of your work. So then what's the point? This is, of course, operating under the assumption that we want to remain true to ourselves and the works that we are compelled to create.

Sorry, I should have specified. In this thread I'm referring to writing novels and not manuals. Technical writing will probably be automated soon anyhow.

Good response, user, and I feel your emotion. You're absolutely right and I can't really refute any of your points. But
>Nobody actually wants to create art and add beauty to the world do they? Too worried about a paycheck.
It's not that I don't want to work; I have a wageslave job that pays my bills. I understand that you can't get something for nothing and I'm not trying to use my passion for writing as an easy way out. And it's not that I think you can't make good art just for the inherent value in doing so. Just wish I could do that and also get paid for it. But again I freely admit that you're correct.

This is also true. That's why when I move I'm not getting internet and will take three solid months to revise my first draft of Book 1 and will complete a rough draft of Book 2.

if you aren't hopeful it's because you truly have nothing interesting to say. people writing new, good shit everywhere (and getting paid). fluland mag, autistic mercury, dagger mag, the list goes on.

The only two reasons anyone has ever written are:
1) They enjoyed doing it or felt the need to
2) They had friends with whom they could share their works and encourage each other
If you find yourself in any of these two categories then the motivation for writing should be obvious. If not then for God's sake go and do something else.

>Has anyone on Veeky Forums achieved any real success?

I put out a small chapbook of poems. It sold out and people liked it. I was a regular at the weekly poetry reading in my town and the people that came knew my stuff. I’ll call that success.

>
No flame at all, i mean this in the kindest way possible. But beyond the "i'd have to compromise the soul of my work" problem, I don't believe it's so simple to write in a mass marketable way.

I have a friend who likes to act like he has normies figured out, but honestly, even if he wanted to I don't think he's talented enough to compromise and contort in a way that normies would like.

I think if you honestly believe you know how to compromise in order to sell, you should, because I think that's admirable in its own right.

>Technical writing will probably be automated soon anyhow.
Fucking everyone says this about everything

I've been interested in freelance writing.Copy and content. Articles or ads etc. Anyone have any success with this? I just need to get out of the rat race for a while and willing to shill anything for livable wage.

there's good money in it if you can find the connections. foreign language companies will pay native english speakers a dicks per hour rate to do days worth of stuff you can just toss off in a couple of hours.

Me and some of my friends in New Orleans make a living writing poetry for people on the spots with some typewriters. (Although I just do it as a summer gig)

Planning on finishing up my 3rd collection of poetry which will be one of the first things I think I can stand by within a decades time. Really want it to be perfect. That way I can sell it to people who ask if they can read more of my stuff and have already dropped 20 bucks on just one poem.

I’m literally only 19, some of my friends have been making a living on their art for years.

Stop being a faggot and put yourself out there, otherwise die with regret with the faint hope that maybe you will be immortalized long after you’ve been buried.

It’s not had to live if you are in a first world. You just need a WiFi connection, and you can start a career.

Sure you likely will never garner major success but at least you push yourself to be a better writer.

You and your literally only 19 year old self can suck a platitude lollipop.

>fluland mag, autistic mercury, dagger mag, the list goes on.
huh? do you actually know if those people get paid? dagger is puny and fluland/autistic mercury have no monetized content

i like this guy's attitude - vive la vie boheme brahs. you might have to give up on the idea of a normal bougie life with wife and kids and annual vacations and respect of ma and pa if you want to be an artist. maybe you have to live in a shitty apartment with roommates working a part time joe job and read/write for 12 hours a day on your days off until you're 35

>shill anything for livable wage
how is that not the rat race

>I get that books have not been profitable in a long time and I'm not wanting to strike gold with Twilight or 50 Shades.

this is true but it also needs to be said that some people do produce literary work that blows up. Literature is overcrowded with wannabes (e.g. this board) but the amount of really 1st rate stuff being written is still very low. If you can demonstrate real talent there's a decent shot of being picked up by an agent or something. but that can't be "The Plan." and if you don't have it in you to become the next Big Thing then who gives a fuck about you and your dreams anyway

Jiminy Christmas, Veeky Forums, y'all need to stop jumping to conclusions. Never once did I say or imply that my motivation for writing was fueled by desire of making money. Still going to write either way and still going to put my all into it. I just was asking if anyone has had success in getting paid for their work.

>how is that not the rat race

Theoretically. I won't have to set an alarm and I can shit on my own toilet. Making money while making my own schedule and choosing which days off I get. No boss breathing down my neck. No people to deal with other than clients etc. If I get good I can take it anywhere and leave the cities and leave somewhere cheap and spacious.

stop coming here it sucks

Making your own schedule is going to require you to set an alarm, silly. What you're describing is nice for a while but I promise you that the novelty wears off. From 18 to 23 I lived that life and found myself to be an unreliable boss and a sorry manager of my own time. Living that way makes you happy on the surface level because you're just going with your momentary impulses but you WILL seek order in your life eventually. Everyone I know still living the "boho" life is depressed and often won't even try to hide it. Ever wonder why people in the art circle are continuously struggling with existential dread? There's a lot more to life than just letting your emotions dictate everything you do. Although I would recommend that everyone go through that phase to at least learn about themselves and their weaknesses. Oh and yes you absolutely should get out of the city and move into a cheap place in a cozy town or suburb.

Yes it really does. In the last two years it's just fallen apart. I 100% do think that our 2014 "Top 100" chart getting circulated on Reddit brought in most of the 'tards that make the shitty threads. In-depth discussion has become nonexistent and 70% of replies are hardly ever more than a few sentences. It's pretty pitiful when this thread makes me happy that people are at least trying.

Because it's what's going to happen, you tard.

Writing has never been worth it

Most famous writers were dirt poor or had day jobs

Whether the dream now purpos'd to rehearse
Be poet's or fanatic's will be known
When this warm scribe my hand is in the grave

Writing has never been a lucrative job. You make money from writing if you are within this top of a percentile where you are in demand to have your books, stories turned into other forms of media. Making a living from just writing is damn near impossible. The other way would being part of the lecture circuit and academics.

there's no point in writing unless you have something worth telling people. just like every other field of human endeavor, the low-hanging fruit has long-since been picked.

if your writing is just a masturbatory attempt to evade getting a 'real' job you'll never write anything worth shit.

Housewives read romance novels which are pretty much the same thing. There is a lot of writing to be done. But not all of it is going to make you rich and most of it is going to be you selling yourself out for a paycheck like most people. At the end of the day it's a job.

yeah, OP can write romance novels for unfulfilled menopausal women and give the hero an emo backstory loosely based on his childhood.

unironically perfect

A friend of mine makes some decent dosh through some kindle publishing program. All he wrote was a generic YA cyberpunk book, which is too common these days, but it appeals to the general populace of brainlets.

On the otherhand, I'm a semi-NEET with no plans of having a job because I fear that all the effort going into acquiring one will be wasted in due time. In accordance with this, I'm just going to resort to writing porn fiction for furfags and degenerates on the internet, as some people pay a pretty penny from their welfarebux.

I suppose you could get rich from writing a book that people will appreciate on a artistic and philosophical standing point, but it will simply pass by unnoticed in exchange for the usual slop churned out by cretins. Oh well.

Should we be happy with a society where good art can only be part time? What about the time it takes to practice a craft that simply isn't there for those working another job? Surely the work itself suffers. Wanting to get paid for art doesn't have to be more about love of getting paid than about love of art.

if you write the kind of self indulgent meandering absolute shit that people post in the critique threads here than no you can't have writing as a job. if you actually write for the readers and fulfill their wants and desires than sure you can. if you are not above writing genre fiction and giving others a sense of action, fantasy, romance, fear, etc you have a good shot. if you're one of the retarded pseuds who belief you terrible naval-gazing writing is going to be the next great novel, fuck you just give up on any thoughts of making money from your creative writing and go back to whatever shit hourly job you have grinding out your life for your boss

>terrible naval-gazing writing
Nigga wut?

Good post, I echo the sentiment. Produce art and give it away for free.

you're a fucking eunuch loser and i bet your art is as impotent as you.

there are still ways to make money through your art, it's only gotten much more difficult. nonetheless the publishing industry still exists and writers are still being paid. make all the excuses you want for yourself and imagine a mountain of obstacles in your way but that will get you nowhere.

>The emperor—it is said—sent to you, the one apart, the wretched subject, the tiny shadow that fled far, far from the imperial sun, precisely to you he sent a message from his deathbed. He bade the messenger kneel by his bed, and whispered the message in his ear. So greatly did he cherish it that he had him repeat it into his ear. With a nod of his head he confirmed the accuracy of the messenger’s words. And before the entire spectatorship of his death—all obstructing walls have been torn down and the great figures of the empire stand in a ring upon the broad, soaring exterior stairways—before all these he dispatched the messenger. The messenger set out at once; a strong, an indefatigable man; thrusting forward now this arm, now the other, he cleared a path though the crowd; every time he meets resistance he points to his breast, which bears the sign of the sun; and he moves forward easily, like no other. But the crowds are so vast; their dwellings know no bounds. If open country stretched before him, how he would fly, and indeed you might soon hear the magnificent knocking of his fists on your door. But instead, how uselessly he toils; he is still forcing his way through the chambers of the innermost palace; never will he overcome them; and were he to succeed at this, nothing would be gained: he would have to fight his way down the steps; and were he to succeed at this, nothing would be gained: he would have to cross the courtyard and, after the courtyard, the second enclosing outer palace, and again stairways and courtyards, and again a palace, and so on through thousands of years; and if he were to burst out at last through the outermost gate—but it can never, never happen—before him still lies the royal capital, the middle of the world, piled high in its sediment. Nobody reaches through here, least of all with a message from one who is dead. You, however, sit at your window and dream of the message when evening comes.

Yes it's possible, but only if you sell your soul to the kikes.

They own every aspect of the publishing business now and if you don't bow down and worship their feet like a good goyim while constantly tweeting the pro-SJW shit that pushes their agenda you will never make it.

The government will fund you to write
it's called welfare

>it's only gotten much more difficult
no it hasn't. it's much easier with stuff like self-pub on Amazon KPD or funding from fans with Patreon or whatever. If you're writing is of value to anyone besides yourself and your mother, it's literally never been easier than in the past when it was all about big house gatekeepers or vanity press literal pay-to-print scam trash

Look into the life of your favorite writer. Chances are they died poor.

I got interviewed for a job that was writing guides for people trying to get into certain jobs: police, paramedic, that sort of thing. It was called How2Become ltd. They got me to write some stuff after the interview. Ended up giving the job to someone with an English degree, it only paid £7 an hour.

i meant difficult in a different sense but that would be an argument of taste which seems besides the point when we agree that making a living as a writer is still possible :3

>tfw my live is becoming notes from underground
I feel like Dostoevsky is the only true /our guy/ from all the writers. Especially if you read his work in the original.

So basically the best strategy would be to become a social media warlord and survive off of the Paypal/Patreon donations of the online guerrilla meme fighters.

pic related?

>I don't think of some romanticized, imaginary lifestyle living in Brooklyn and being a socialite that spends $5000 a week on luxury items

good man, that shit was always a scam. It produced no works that've survived.

Maybe you should look into screenwriting.

Don't forget North Star ;)

Correct.

The closest Veeky Forums related job still available is the transactional lawyer (known as a solicitor in commonwealth countries). Most of my time is spent researching (which is essentially reading) and writing.

Lol its never going to happen machines can't Logos

Yes but nowadays I leave it to my neural net to be a ghost writer. I just add the italics.

Dear Veeky Forumsizens,

I come here to talk to you about literature and writing and what not

and yet you insist on posting my dream qt3.14s

this one works at starbucks and everyone time she comes over she always spends an hour talking about her bitch ass manager

Lindsay why are you really here? Do you want me to fuck you or not?

Blank stare, she wants to hold onto the innocence of youth, why, I will never know

After fucking her brains out for an hour, she asks me if I want to smoke a cig

I tell her to marry me. She laughs and say I don't really want to marry her. I say yeah you're right Linds, you just turn me on when you ask me destructive questions, do I want to breath in plastic garbage with the alternative nightmare that is my Linds

Asks me if I have any molly, theres a rave near Down St this upcoming weekend. Yeah I can make that happen Linds. How much.

After details of the deal she leaves, look forward to fucking her on molly.... she never stops cumming no matter where I touch her

love you Linds

Are you 19 years old? I did not really catch that. I struggle to understand your age, is it 19? Why am I thinking 19? Is that you age?

>calling someone not wanting to monetize his art an eunuch loser
>quoting Kafka in the same breath

areyouretarded.png

Kakfa was a eunuch loser -- the inflicted best knows the symptoms. Why the fuck do you think that was written in 2nd person??? Jesus Christ learn to fucking think. You think the guy was oh so happy rotting away unpublished? No, he was a neurotic fuck crippled with depression with a constant sense or alienation that prevented him from communicating and had to rely on his ultra Chad best friend to be a bro and give meaning to any of his pathetic life.

>anymore
What makes you think it used to be easier? The fact that you name Twilight and 50 Shades should tell you that it obviously is possible now. If anything I'd guess that successful writers make more money from their writing now than in the past- I can't think of any writers from the past who made millions JK Rowling style. Could be wrong on that, though.

Don't apologise, you hould have been harsher really. The 'yeah, I'd obviously make millions selling books but I've got too much artistic integrity' posters are hilariously delusional.

Artists need to eat and pay rent too, you know.

It's possible but your chances are low, even if you're willing to compromise.

For every successful poplit thrash there's a few hundred equally shit book that failed. Dude was just lucky, or had the right connections.

Contemporary audience demands cheap entertainment, and there are thousands who are willing to provide it. You don't need skill or artistic vision to do it. Most can do it. It's just a matter of luck.

Compare this to Hemingway or even Chekhov: Both wrote some short stories with money in mind, and they were great, because great writing was not rejected by the audience, it sold.

I mean, artistic integrity is a valid reason not to write New York Times Bestseller-tier crap. There are lots of writers who can write on that level but choose not to. Even if they would, their chances of being published are low.

As a euro who writes in a language only ~13 million speak, I'd rather be content with my work than to "sell out". I'm not going to make wads of cash anyway, why compromise my integrity?

t. lives with his parents

creating something worthwhile takes time and effort. a person can't survive without necesseties. can't get necesseties without money. can't get money without a job, which consumes time and effort.
time is a finite resource, as is energy. use your brain from here

>it'll be too unfamiliar to readers so we won't even bother publishing it
Because you're a shitty writer who can't introduce the readers to something new by mixing it with familiar.

>to strike gold with Twilight or 50 Shades
Is the most viable way and not that hard if you're a decent writer, just obviously not to this dimensions. In the end, good art will get paid if you're not absolutely horrible at getting the point across about how good yours is. It's a lot like sports, only the very best thousands of something people will be able to make a career out of it, so if money is your goal, it's an incredible dumb choice.

The other alternative is the social media + Amazon way.