Have you read any works of the great LRH?

Supposedly his book “Fear” is top tier horror. I have it haven’t gotten to it.

> character spends twelve pages trying to work out how to get into an abandoned building
> finally works out what windows are for
> breaks a window
> gets in
> congratulates himself for two pages

was hubbard a distant cousin of Trump's?

supposedly "battlefield earth" is a good book, according to the Church of Scientology.

and an even better film, you stupid rat-brains!

Yeah dianetics 55, structure is bit a on the nose but I can see why people thought it was so ground breaking.

Shoehorn some more political references into a conversation about Scientology.

>believing LRH was a person who actually existed and was not just an amalgamation of Xenu's good energy which he cast off to become pure evil

The whole Xenu thing isn't even real. Some people will do anything they can to discredit Scientology because it actually works, and they can't handle that.

There’s audio of LRH talking Xenu...
supreme rulah...

muh mengrams

If there is it has nothing to do with the philosophy of Scientology

Has something to do with it-Xenu is the supreme ruler
-on earth, or Teegeeack, true, you could try to ignore Thetans
But will they leave you alone?

hey scientology user,
two things:

1. when OT III documents that described Xenu were released, the Church sued about them which proved that they were infact verbatim - they sued for the releasing of the documents, not for slander.

2. even so,OT III documents are classified. So how can you say it isn't even real? I know you are not OT III because if you were you would not be mentioning the name "xenu" online, for denying it or otherwise

I'm well aware of the supposed OTIII documents you're talking about. They're fake. Don't you realize that you can be sued for copyright infringement even if you don't release the entire document or don't edit them enough to constitute fair use? That's what happened. Some people took a portion of the authentic OTIII documents, edited them, and then released them in an attempt to make Scientology look stupid. They couldn't be sued for slander because they were protected by the parody provisions in the law. It's not against the law to make fun of somebody, but it is against the law to violate copyrights, thus that's what they were sued for.

The authentic OTIII documents being "classified" or copyrighted doesn't prove that the fake ones are real. That's an absurd inference.

No Scientologist has ever confirmed that those OTIII were real. Only ex-Scientologists, and ex-Scientologist clearly have a motive for denigrating the church so they can't be trusted. They're the sort of people that only joined Scientology because they were looking for ways to destroy it whether they realize it or not and so I don't even like calling them "ex-Scientologists" because they were never Scientologists to begin with.

You're right that even if the story were true it wouldn't be any stranger than other religions. So what's your point? It being fake and the story not being that much crazier than other religions are both true statements. They don't contradict each other. Also I didn't say the documents were entirely edited, I'm saying that portions of the documents are authentic and that's why the people were sued. The Xenu nonsense was edited into them in order to make Scientology look bad and those edits weren't enough to constitute fair use.

Mentally ill freak, go suck Tom Cruise's dick and fuck off.

Why are you so angry?

I always thought Scientology was beyond ridiculous, but I've been reading William Burroughs' letters and he has talked me in to giving it a chance. He was really into it. E-meter an all. Anything the establishment feels threatened by, they make absurd. So Scientology must be pretty threatening to the status quo.

why does this guy look like a bad mid-level JRPG villain?

They have a bunch of free courses on the Scientology website. I took the study tech one and it was worth it just for the word clearing. It's such a simple thing once you learn what it is but its been very helpful.

The only thing most people know about Scientology comes from people who hate it. I wonder why this realization never hits people. It's like they've been given a narrative and they're perfectly willing to accept it without question.

Do you work for the church?

What a ridiculous question. Do you assume people in the Catholic general work for their church?

>because it actually works

"Make money, make more money"

pyramid schemes appear to work, from the top of the pyramid. ask anyone in Albania about pyramid schemes, and they'll punch your teeth out.

You go to a church, you sign up for a class, and then you pay for the materials and then you take that class. In what world is that a pyramid scheme?

theres a jewish internet defense force why not catholic?

JK Catholicism is a joke post vatican II

I thought Scientologists were supposed to be the stupid ones

What are you even saying?

You can find a free bible in every hotel room. Why charge money for scripture? Let's not forget that your "religion" was founded by a hack science fiction writer turned self help guru i.e. one of the least trustworthy types of people on the planet.

Scientology doesn't have scripture so the comparison is absurd. You can walk into any Org and pick up free literature but what I'm talking about are classes. The materials for many of these classes costs time and money. Complaining about Scientology charging money for these courses is like complaining that Catholic universities charge money for students to enroll.

And so what if Hubbard was science fiction writer? Does that mean he can never be right about anything?

You don't need to attend a Catholic university to be Catholic. Most of the courses taught at Catholic universities have nothing to do with Catholicism, they're just normal colleges with a religious atmosphere. Same deal with BYU or any other Christian university. If your "church" actually cared about people it would provide the "materials" for free and find some way to cover the costs. One legitimate way churches support themselves is through donations. If you want to go to your neighborhood Baptist church it doesn't cost a dime, even though they pay taxes on the land, have a building and staff to maintain, and have to pay the pastor enough to support himself. You are expected to make donations commensurate with your personal income, but it isn't obligatory. Charging people money to take some kind of religious instruction course is incredibly crass and cheap.

The problem I have with Elron isn't so much that he was a third rate science fiction writer, but that he turned to writing self help books. You go into the self help book trade because you want to make money, not because you actually want to help people.

You don't have to be on course to be a Scientologist so I don't know what your point is. The Church of Scientology isn't rich enough to provide these extraciricular course for free. I'm sure they would if they could but economics are a fact of life. Furthermore it's not even true what you're saying about Christian churches. You can not go for free, not for long anyways. There is always massive pressure to donate and I know the Catholic Church specifically commands followers to financially support the church in the Catechism. They also charge money for sacraments like marriage.

This may shock you because you've been so brainwashed by anti-Scientologists but you can actually be a Scientologist without giving any money to the church.

I guess you don't know how it works
You have to keep feeding them gobs of money regularly to rise the religious "stages" (ranks) and the higher you get, the more they reveal to you about the religion's core beliefs
Near the very top of the hierarchy, they tell you about the Xenu shit, and by that point they've completely prepared you for it and you're so far into the church they know you'd never tell anyone

Watching Going Clear

*Watch Going Clear

"The first contribution of dianetics is the discovery that the problems of thought and
mental function can be resolved within the bounds of the finite universe, which is to say that
all data needful to the solution of mental action and Man's endeavor can be measured, sensed
and experienced as scientific truths independent of mysticism or metaphysics. The various
axioms are not assumptions or theories – the case of past ideas about the mind – but are laws
which can be subjected to the most vigorous laboratory and clinical tests."

>everything can be resolved within the bounds of the finite universe
>thetans are outside of the physical universe
hmmm

>The Church of Scientology isn't rich enough to provide these extraciricular course for free

The free zone manage to. Likewise despite not being able to afford to provide auditing services they find tens of millions of dollars to build/purchase massive buildings for students which remain empty, 42 million dollars to purchase a block of land in hollywood to shoot movies and a massive mansion for their leader.

Indeed when you look at a member to wealth ratio Scientology is one of the wealthiest churches in the World all the more impressive when you consider how young it is.

>There is always massive pressure to donate

Do Catholic priests encourage and even pressure people to take out credit card loans to give donations?

Does the Catholic Church hold that heaven cannot be obtained by those with no money?

Does the Catholic Church give people percentage commissions for recruiting members?

The pressure is infinitesimally smaller, Scientologists even have specialised staff members to pressure people for donations.

>and I know the Catholic Church specifically commands followers to financially support the church in the Catechism.

See the parable of the widows mite, with Christianity its a percentage and even then its not a requirement of salvation - indeed a man with no money will not be denied communion or mass based on that. However a Scientologist cannot receive auditing or training without payment - they make the able more able.

>They also charge money for sacraments like marriage.

They will waive those costs if you cant afford it.

>This may shock you because you've been so brainwashed by anti-Scientologists but you can actually be a Scientologist without giving any money to the church.

Can you say you are yes, but will you be on course, no.

The Scientology you talk of hasn't been around for decades and just ignores the work of David.

>clearly have a motive for denigrating the church so they can't be trusted.

Dont you think its an absurd inference to believe that all ex Scientologists have and could only ever hostile and false motives?

> The Xenu nonsense was edited into them in order to make Scientology look bad and those edits weren't enough to constitute fair use.

Out of respect for your faith I wont post the documents on here but which parts were edits? The document tended in the case was a photocopy of a hand written note by Hubbard and doesnt seem to show any sign of tampering unless you hold the whole thing to be false.

> but I've been reading William Burroughs' letters and he has talked me in to giving it a chance.

Which aspects of its tech?

>Anything the establishment feels threatened by, they make absurd.

A broken clock is still right twice a day. Its also worth looking into operation snow white - where Scientologists infiltrated the government offices, wire tapped and stole documents in what was the largest domestic espionage incident in US history

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

youtube.com/watch?v=DwfxuQtgGE0

Yeah I'm sure you know better than an actual Scientologist.

Won’t mention Xenu other than to say...

David Miscavige is worse than Xenu.

There's a hot take

Fascinating video...
Only thing I can figure, early Scientologists were in the habit of roaming far on the timetrack, reliving Flash Gordon flashbacks themselves, and that was the context of LRH reciting Xenu’s story. The audience ate this stuff up. They were reliving this space opera, then in their daily lives must have felt like gods among the mortals.

>If anything we have more knowledge about it than you

How do you know the materials you've seen are real?

>The whole Xenu thing isn't even real.
Then why do scientologists have to pay so much money to hear the story?

Have you stopped beating your wife? The story isn't real so Scientologists don't have to pay for it.

With regard to the technology, I don't know enough to say. But Burroughs, many times, brought up expirements he would like to try with the e-meter, under the assumption that he no longer has reason to question its efficacy. I get the clock thing, but I had completely discounted the entire Scientology thing without looking into it at all. I was surprised by how much Burroughs had bought into it because he doesn't seem easy to fool and he had a much closer relationship to the sources of the material than most of us have. I'm not saying I believe any of it yet, I'm just saying that I clearly didn't give it enough of a chance before completely rejecting it

Repeatedly asserting that something is real doesn't make it so. The only thing you know about Scientology comes from people who hate it. How do you verify what those people say is true? Have you attempted to verify anything? People always accuse Scientology of being a cult but I think that's psychological projection from anti-Scientologists because I have never seen a group of people express such blind faith as them.

I literally do because that information is deliberately withheld from them until they've become an integral part of the church
Do you not remember when all this leaked or are you too young?

How do you know the data you've been exposed to is real?

Oh sorry Mr. Miscavige, I didn't know it was you!

That's what I expected. You apparently know more about Scientology than an actual Scientologists but you have no good reason to believe the data you've been exposed to is authentic. You've been fed a narrative and you accept it without question.

I don't know if you're some poorly defined troll, a scientology crony, or just completely deluded, but here, knock yourself out
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology#Space_opera_and_the_Wall_of_Fire

Those little number things are called citations, check them out

I don't know what it means to be a "poorly defined troll" but whatever. When I want unbiased data on any subject Wikipedia is my first stop, because those anti-Scientology sources who profit from denigrating the church can definitely be trusted. None of them can explain how they know the information they have about OTIII and other Scientology material is authentic. You can't explain it either which is why you're simply linking a Wikipedia page as if that proves something.

>anti-Scientology sources who profit from denigrating the church can definitely be trusted
Alright, that's where I call it a day, David.
Please do keep in mind which organization was the one that literally held the IRS hostage and got away with it

An organization doesn't want to pay taxes. THE HORROR. Anyway, I hope you have a good day and I wish you would reconsider how you think about things and stop blindly accepting things that you're told. It's worth being curious.

>You apparently know more about Scientology than an actual Scientologists

nah he's right, my buddy's mom was basically a slave for scientology in California during the 80s, not only is it as bad as the media portrays it, it's actually worse:

>underwent a "reprogramming" system where they brainwashed her with fasting, repetitive menial labor, and physical punishment, convinced her she was literally an organ belonging to the body of the church
>worked for free doing random sales jobs and menial labor giving all her money to the church, slept in a dorm and was given food rations
>cut off all contact with her family and friends
>promised her that she would get psychic powers in exchange for her effort
>was sexually abused by higher ups as part of her repropgramming

I'm sure the church runs a tighter ship these days to stay intact and avoid media confrontation, but it doesn't deter from the fact that the church is run by a bunch of insane psychopaths whose primary goal is building a large pool of disposable human capital

They also infiltrated the IRS in an effort to destroy evidence.

Therefore what?

Assuming those defending Scientology in this thread are in fact Scientologists, in all sincerity, what has your experience in the Church been like? Are there any finer things to Dianetics that aren't talked about more often? What are some techniques you could share with us?

It's better to think of Scientology as a university for adult learners rather than a bonafide religion where you accept things on faith or attend worship services. It's a philosophy first and foremost and like any good system of philosophy it can give you the tools necessary to make you a happy person. Its worth at least checking out because in my experience it works. There's a ton of free classes on the Scientology website that are worth checking out, all you have to do is give them an email because while you're doing them you do interact with actual staffers.

One of the things that most helped me, which is very simple in retrospect, was the word clearing. It's essentially the idea that even a single misunderstood word can cause your mind of "blank" or cause you to forget the things you're reading. There's more too it but Scientology gives you some guidelines in how to properly clear words or make them understood using dictionaries and thesauruses. Like I said, it's very obvious once you hear it, or at least it should be but its been a big help.

When most people talk about Dianetics they really have no idea what they're talking about so they tend to focus on the boisterous language that Hubbard uses. It has to be taken in context because Hubbard tends to oversell or exaggerate things in admittedly funny ways. You can't forget that he's writing to a 1950's audience.

The important part is the therapy itself, does it work? I think it does. It doesn't hurt to try for yourself.

The Xenu story is most definitely real. It's just that by the time you reach OTIII you've already audited past lives on other planets. So by then it's not much of a leap.

is there any comparative religion study within Scientology? Past life auditing has a lot in parallel with saṃskāra and Saṃsāra in hinduism, and some other ideas in gnostic groups

Theosophy compares with it.

I haven't read anything like that but I'm sure you'll find a lot of Scientology elements throughout the various world religions. I like to think of Scientology as a culmination of things that work.

>scientologist accuses me of being brainwashed

That's rich.

Well if it walks like a duck

>It's better to think of Scientology as a university for adult learners rather than a bonafide religion where you accept things on faith or attend worship services.
Do you think its correct then that it has religious status when it comes to issues of taxation and visas?

What do you think of Free Zone Scientologists

>One of the things that most helped me, which is very simple in retrospect, was the word clearing
What about the other aspects of the study tech like having to make clay dolls to deal with the "absence of mass"

> It has to be taken in context because Hubbard tends to oversell or exaggerate things in admittedly funny ways. You can't forget that he's writing to a 1950's audience.
He promised the ability to cure not only all psychosomatic illnesses with it but also things like arthritis and poor eyesight.

Most importantly of all it promised perfect recall - this was not fluff or bluster but something integral to overcoming the reactive mind.

When I see that much greentext in a post I don't read them because its almost always dumb. You won't put effort into your posts why should I?

The green texts are direct quotes of yours. On Veeky Forums we quote the previous post by using that green text. You guys can make a note of that in your notes for Veeky Forums

That autistic shit where you respond to individual sentence is not the norm. It's something lazy and stupid people do because they don't know how to form paragraphs like a normal speaker of the English language. It used to be more popular but thankfully it's dying off as more people realize how unconductive it is to regular discourse.

If I were to respond to you with the same format as you the conversation would devolve into a dozen little mini debates instead of a conversation where ideas are effectively communicated. That's not what I want because it's not useful and it's not productive.

you're right, "I didn't read your post because it's probably dumb" was a much more useful and productive communication.

Like I said, if you're not going to put effort into your post why should I?

So you're just a troll who can't defend his position and instead of addressing specific points you'd rather deflect.

It simply is a more targeted form of communication that ensures specific points of disagreement are dealt with and that they arent lost in a larger conversation, but if its not to your taste you could have communicated that early on.

If you believe that Scientology is more of a university than a religion why then should they be allowed to receive that special tax exemption and visa benefits? Were they treated like a university or a business it would not only help with some of the controversies but would also mean that their practices would be far more acceptable.

Given that you have found word clearing to be helpful what have your other experiences with the study tech been like? Did you find the clay dolls to be an effective tool in dealing with what Applied Scholastics identifies as a lack of mass?

Finally not only does Hubbard go beyond oversell with Dianetics - promising to cure he ability to cure not only all psychosomatic illnesses with it but also things like arthritis and poor eyesight.

Importantly some of the most extreme claims like 100% perfect recall are an integral part of the teachings and cannot be seen as oversell or bluster unless you reject his arguments regarding the reactive mind. It would be kind of like a Christian saying that Jesus's being God's Son was just a metaphor or an exaggeration.

I have no problem speaking to people who format their posts in a coherent way.

...

In addition to the above do you believe that Free Zone Scientologists provide an acceptable and legitimate way to practice the teachings of Hubbard or do you think these teachings can only come from the organisations run by David?

I'm not the other poster, but I don't think even David Miscavige provides a legitimate way since he squirrels the tech in the guise of correcting typos from earlier edition material. All in an effort to get members to retake the courses they already did for more money. Not to mention the updated E-meters to show that previous readings were erroneous, therefore must take the earlier courses again for more money.

Your post is so scattershot. Is it so hard to stick to one or two topics per post? Do you really expect a complete stranger to go in depth for each of these questions?

Scientology is a religion and so they deserve the same tax breaks as any other religion. Just because I think its easier or more useful to think of Scientology as a system of philosophy than a religion doesn't mean that I don't think Scientology is a religion.

As far as the study tech goes I think it's all useful. I don't know what you want.

For Dianetics who's to say 100% perfect recall isn't possible? How do you know it can't cure all psychosomatic illnesses? Have you tried it? You're assuming that because you haven't seen something happen then it can't happen.

As for free zone Scientology no I don't think its legitimate.

>How do you know it can't cure all psychosomatic illnesses? Have you tried it? You're assuming that because you haven't seen something happen then it can't happen.

It's a reasonable question. You claim it can't cure those illnesses. Okay, so how do you know?

Well with respect to the emeter it is firstly worth remember that the Church itself states (and only did so after the FDA investigated it)

"The E-Meter is not medically or scientifically useful for the diagnosis, treatment or prevention of any disease. It is not medically or scientifically capable of improving the health or bodily functions of anyone."

Its around this period it began its transition to a religion rather than a a new medical development.

What you also might find interesting is that the original or Book 1 dianetics auditing did not use or require the use of them.

That said with the E meter if you wanted to explore it as a device just get an analog voltmeter from a hardware or electronics store. However with Scientology at least in most of the levels the real importance comes from the auditing done with the machine by another person not yourself

How do you know Scientology doesn't create more psychosomatic illnesses?

Because I've only seen them be cured and I have never heard of any reason to believe that they're created by Scientology. You're being ridiculous though, it's like asking how we know hospitals don't create the diseases they cure.

You're assuming that because you haven't seen something happen then it can't happen.

In all sincerity, what are some examples of the psychosomatic illnesses you've seen cured?

How come the free zone isn't legitimate? Does Scientology have to operate under an authoritarian orgnization or can it be free (free as in freedom, not free as in beer) for the practice and advancement of the world? Like medicine is.

The most famous example is David Miscavige who cured his asthma with Dianetic therapy. I have personal experience as well with getting rid of anxiety and headaches.

Well Hubbard created the Scientology organization and created policies and institutions to protect the tech. It's necessary because its very easy to do Scientology wrong and when that happens it can become dangerous. It's best to go where you know you're getting the real deal.

But LRH wrote all of the tech. If you follow his writings only then you know you are getting the real deal.

Are most of your friends or family within Scientology? What was your relationship like with your friends and family before Scientology? How did you get involved with the Church? How much of your money and time is put into your relationship with the Church?

If you consider Christianity for a second, they have the bible. It's their main text and all they have to do is follow that yet there's thousands of different denominations. This is because it's one thing to read a text, but entirely different thing to interpret it correctly. It's the same deal with Hubbard's writings. There needs to be an authority that say which is the correct interpretation otherwise it becomes anarchy.

I have only been Scientology for about a year. None of my family is in it and I joined on my own. I was curious so I walked into the church and talked to them. I'm not a big spender so I haven't put much into it. The courses are fairly cheap and I've spend more on books than I have on auditing. I can only guess about a thousand dollars in total and in the end that's probably less than most people spend on their various hobbies.