How do I be more Jungian?

The magnum opus (of that is the book you are asking about) is the red book, or liber novus (he thought it is the new New Testament, done entirely in his own calligraphy with beautiful picture he drew as well). He asked his family to keep it hidden until a certain time (2009). With regard to the goal of his philosophy and immortal life, after he had the supernatural experience that led to the creation of the red book, Jung spent nearly all of his mental energy pursuing the truth behind the alchemical process. After years of work he was sent the secret of the golden flower and after reading it he stopped working on his book that would pay out the alchemical process because he said the secret of the golden flower was exactly what he was trying to produce. The goal of the meditative practice in the secret of the golden flower is to create a 'diamond body' outside the body that allows one to continue on with conscious existence after the death of the body (but there are many other benefits along the way that I won't get into here). It is hilarious to me that lit has been shitting on Jung recently, I mean, what is more lit than keeping your greatest work a complete secret? He's a fucking badass if you ask me.

He's talking about The Red Book which is a personal diary Jung kept recording his dreams and feelings. It's stated by him that his life's work is unrivaling what he learned during those years.

The annon you are talking to is being deceptive. He didn't publish it because it's personal.

If you want a condensed version of it he wrote a poem that did exactly that called the Seven Sermons to the Dead. It was distrubuted only to a handful of select people and he didn't intend for it be shared.

It's incredible dense, might be the single most difficult to understand piece of writing in history. If the story is to be believed Jung wrote it in a trance.

I could have done a better job proof-reading... sorry about the stupid spelling, I'm on my phone. I hope you understand what I meant though

Jung's life is stranger than fiction.

> He began his career working with the mentally ill which was seen as the least respectful type of doctor imaginable
> The heriess to the largest fortune the country approaches him about her sick father
> He cures him with uncontential techniques. She falls in love with him and marries him. Jung is now filthy rich
> He has almost supernatural charisma and gathered a literal harem of lesbian psychologists most of them who he banged with his wife's consent

Thanks for answering, why did Jung not want it to be published before 2009?

Immortality has always been known to be one of the main points of Alchemy and Jung wasnt the first to publicize it.

Why did Jung psycholigize spiritual matters? that is my beef with him

>Why did Jung psycholigize spiritual matters?

Because spirituality IS psychology. That's the whole point. "The soul" is basically primitive man talking about psychology

If that is so, why did Jung believe in immortality (diamond body)

He didn't specify the year. He left it to colleagues to decide when the world was ready to receive the ideas.

Because psychology exists separate from the body. Esoteric Jung is very hard.

If psychology exists without any biological entity that generates it than how is that not the SAME EXACT THING as (real) spirituality??

What is so special about the book?

Psychology literally means the study of the soul (I just think it is interesting compared with the way we view psychology today). Isn't it possible that he spiritualized psychology as opposed to the other way around?

...

...

No. Because ancient philosophers already viewed the mind in a spiritual sense, Jung did somthing very different.

>how is that not the SAME EXACT THING as (real) spirituality

It doesn't involve magic. That's all. Psychology=spirtuality. Jung basically translated the language of old religions.

>Isn't it possible that he spiritualized psychology as opposed to the other way around?

He said the Gnostics were the first psychologists. He also considered alchemists psychologists.

If Jung lived 2,000 years ago we would call him a prophet. Today we call him psychologist.

>It doesn't involve magic. That's all. Psychology=spirtuality.
Wtf do you mean by "magic"?

>Psychology=spirtuality.
No. The words mean different things.

First off, it is a piece of art. Secondly, its content is brilliant, and he thought it was divinely inspired, so he can't even take credit for a lot of the content. One thing I thought was interesting was that he doesn't write a lot about Philo Judaeus in his collected works (but when he does, it is clear he has a thorough understanding of his work) but in the red book at a critical point, he claims that Philo invented Christ. A pretty major attribution for a guy he only touches on in other works, unless he felt that this was a secret he didn't want to be public. I also think the work is important because Jung is often elusive in his collected works, which leads many to claim that Jung is not grounded or lacking a line of reasoning, but to now see that his elusiveness could have been a consequence of keeping his cards close to his chest, is an interesting point to recognize when interpreting his work, especially when he hints at something but doesn't actually 'go there'

>he thought it was divinely inspired
I wonder what this actually means to a Jungian.

Did a supernatural being exert its will through him, or did his "unconscious" (as a product of nervous system)?

I think this passage speaks to what you are asking. It is this type of thing that makes me think that the decision to wait to release it wasn't because the content was personal. Jung genuinely believed this would cause the beginning of the world's new religion. Let me know if you can't read the picture and I'll try to type it out

>Wtf do you mean by "magic"?
Anything that violates physics. You can't conjure physical things into existence by speaking in latin.

>No. The words mean different things.
The point is in Jungian thought they don't.

...

>Anything that violates physics
Okay, so then it has nothing to do with genuine spirituality/supernatural/divine.

How would psychology exist outside the body without the supernatural? Just through memes?

Thanks, I could read it well

But I dont think this answers my question. I know in Jung you can communicate with different personalities within you... so did Jung think that the "soul" that was guiding his work was a supernatural being or a product of the brain?

>Okay, so then it has nothing to do with genuine spirituality/supernatural/divine.

If you want to define spirituality as superstition than sure. Although I think it's a shallow type of spirtuality. Basically unless God does parlor tricks you arn't interested.

>How would psychology exist outside the body without the supernatural? Just through memes?

Psychology by it's nature is transcendent. Think of for example the Will to Power.

I don't think he even fully understood the 'category' of the things he encountered. He said they have their own agency but as far as whether they come from within or without, he was at least unsure for a time

the pages of hsi conversations are interesting. I do the same thing.

>the absolute state of modern "transcendence"

So this confirms my initial conclusion that Jungians are modern materialists, I wonder why it couldnt be stated plainly

That's not really a new idea for an esotericist. Even Plato hints at the goal of immortality.
Ex-xtianity... I have pondered the necessity of this. But I am not convinced. Is it not the same delusion as Crowley?
True this. Though it is possible to practice multiple traditions simultaneously albeit unorthodox.
A belief in the supernatural is no more superstitious than a belief in a purely natural world. Jung actually did believe in psychic causality.

The bardo thodol
Egyptian book of the dead
"Green" pill reading list
Consulting tarot cards as a sort of rorsarch test.
Channeling the akhashik records.

Jung is the bridge from lit and psychology to chaos magick and x.

The alchemical text Jung used was from Plato's era, I definitely wouldn't call it new. And Plato is describing the same process, but he is much more cryptic about it (and while he is clear about meditation being the means to achieve perfection, the methods of meditation are not really explicitly stated (timaeus is as close as we get) and were probably part of the oral teachings)) whereas the secret of the golden flower is basically a step-by-step guide on how to meditate in such a way that allows for the attainment of this immortality. Plato and the Taoists (secret of the golden flower) teach the same path in different words

I've stayed away from Crowley, what delusion did he have?

Ushering in the new religion.
I'll have to check out Secrets of the Golden Flower then. Seems relevant to my interests. I've only read smatterings of Jung.
The Veeky Forums academy is getting more /x/, imo.

I'd go with Thomas Cleary's translation (there is a big difference between it and others) and if you get the three volumes of his Taoist translations you won't regret it (secret of the golden flower is in volume 3). They have all you need for alchemy. Best purchase I've made in a while

X and the paranormal are what happens when people want to live like they are playing jout the next great novel.

What's jout.

*Playing out

ur onley as Jung as u feel

Who doesn't? It's schizotypy. Well-organized schizos just don't get put in psych wards. It deserves the same scholarly attention as any other form of belief system, perhaps more due to its age and links to shamanism.

>transcendent value

Jung's system basically says everyone is schizoid it's just a matter of whether all the different you's are organized well and not fighting amoungs each other.

?

How do you get them to stop?

Idea of finding immortality is also classic Gurdjieff/Ouspensky (**Gurdjieff's ideas seem to have come from esoteric Gnostic Christian teachings).

kekistanis BTFO

Meditation and working with tantric energy. Jung and the Taoist he was dealing with said that the psychosis begins when you cause the kundalini energy in the base of your spine to start rising (the medical term is qi-gong psychosis in dsm IV). I didn't realize this was real when I started the practice and I got thrown into a two month break from reality in which I thought I was being filmed everywhere and I was the antichrist. During the break I did the opposite of what I should have done: I continued to try to build energy through no-fap, diet, breathing exercises etc, so I probably prolonged this hellish period by being a dumbass. 6 months later, I'm much better off psychologically than I had been prior to the break. I wouldn't trade the experience I gained through the process so far, for anything. Taoist/Jungian alchemy is super fucking real. Awaken that kundalini, become an actual schizophrenic, and live life the way we were meant to.

I've gone crazy (too much acid? philosophy?) and tried the same thing to treat (nofap, pranayama). Didn't work and nowadays I'm on the pharmaceutical lobotomy (neuroleptics). Relatively stable now. Wouldn't want to worry my mom by quitting the meds. Would Taoist alchemy still have benefits? Do I need to quit weed/tobacco/alcohol?

I'm enjoying life a decent amount. But I guess I am still gripped by the death drive with certain desires. But it fulfills a secret procreative drive. Sociality and sexuality stress me so I need to destress (with getting high/drunk).

So. I have a high potential for this sort of stuff.

My earliest childhood memory was when my conscious mind was overwhelmed with sensations so powerful I lost my balance and started screaming. Think Paul on the road to Damscus. I've had dreams that are comparable to religious revalations. Sometimes in other dreams the characters will speak in psychological terms. They will directly tell me what my subconscious is doing. If I allow myself to be 'possessed' I can write allow other parts of my mind to use my body. For example they can control my arm and write things. It's difficult but sometimes I can rapidly switch back and forth betwen them and myself and carry on a conversation.

I have also had periods of extreme suffering. It's unrelated to my condition but I think suffering is important for spiritual growth.

So tell me as one mystic to another. What balance should I take? Should I give them more 'time'. And what are the risks of going full schizoid. That's what scares me, the risks.

Also what are routine things you do to cultivate this type of power. You mentioned no fap. What type of diet? Just tell me the basic things I can do every day to cultivate this stuff.

I have found a lot of benefit from cutting out alcohol and meat. I cut out tobacco, not because Taoists say to, but for the sake of breathing more clearly (and there is value to having a mind that is not dependent on something like that (but I was a very heavy smoker)). I think the alchemy practice could help. It is basically a specific form of meditation that has various stages, and I think proper meditation is a good medicine for any type of insanity. It's possible that you will try it out for the sake of helping your mental state and continue with it for other benefits it offers. I used to have trouble motivating myself to meditate, but once I was able to move the kundalini energy around and build it through this technique 'they' call the backward flowing method, it wasn't a matter of forcing myself to meditate. I actually wanted to meditate 4-6 hours a day (i have chilled out since then) so I could practice working with the energy. The best advice I can offer is, no fap, for the Taoists (and Platonists) didn't mean no-fap as much as it meant no-cum and practice being conscious of the 'direction' and speed of your breath at all times (for more specific advice on breathing, see the secret of the golden flower). Sorry to blog post. And I'm still learning about this stuff

And I quit alcohol and meat just because the Taoists said it wouldn't really work otherwise. (Or maybe the energy is really subtle at first and it is very difficult to notice/manage/build energy with a dirty liver, so just a short term break might do)

With regard to letting other inner personalities have control over your movement (if I'm understanding you correctly): sounds really interesting. I don't have any experience with it, but if I were in your shoes, I would experiment with that all the time to better understand it. But you know better than I do. I listed some of the routine above: no alcohol, no meat, no-fap, mindfulness (focusing on my breath, trying to keep it silent and 'moving in reverse' has really helped me keep my mind reigned in (which has had more interesting effects than I thought it would)), meditation, and allowing thoughts and memories to freely come into the mind, and dealing with each appropriately (seeing thoughts as being separate from the self and really re-experiencing memories, especially uncomfortable ones). And reading (Thomas Cleary's three volumes of Taoist texts, Jung's alchemical stuff, and Plato). Just things that have helped me

>didn't mean no-fap as much as it meant no-cum

Not that user but isn't that kind of the whole point of it? The release, I mean. Wouldn't willingly giving yourself a severe case of blueballs continually only frustrate you even further? That sounds even worse.

These jezebels, bro. It's exhausting...

The continual blue balls is the only way I've found of experiencing the energy. Kundalini (vitality for Taoists) is essentially sexual energy that, through the process, one turns into 'energy' proper, and this into spirit, and spirit into space (to make the immortal body (sounds dumb I know)). But it starts with vitality as its building blocks, so in order to continually build energy a person shouldn't cum too often, but to build the energy initially it is necessary to border on orgasm while practicing the breathing exercises. Direct the energy up your spine through the chakras and then down the front of your body with each inhale (rising) and exhale (descending). Sorry to be graphic, it's just the most clear way to explain it. The desire to figure out what all of this is about overcame the desire to fuck something for me. It might all be horse-shit witchcraft, but it's got my full attention for now.

Ya. I am newly recovering from the schizo experience. Had a whirlwind of a time but in retrospect it was all very archetypal and mundane. I think my path is leading me to the academy. Read, teach, write. Court the lady philosophy. I do the nofap/nocum usually. Pretty easy with reduced sex drives from meds. I also suspect I'm heartbroken. I do try to practice mindfulness and pranayama. But ina very lax way. Rarely sit down for meditation. Except when I go to yoga class (it is a vajrayana lineage).
I could do that. How long have you been doing this? Can you describe the benefits more?
I would say I am on a very similar path though perhaps through different authors at different times. Nice to see a wise user.
Lol. I don't do this tho.

Chad Jungercock?

I'm sorry, you lost me. From what I gather, you're saying meditation and energy work both makes you crazy and helps you stop bring crazy?

I've been on the no meat no alcohol thing since the psychosis. I've had a couple drinks 3 times since I started and I didn't notice too much of a difference. Other benefits: I'm generally happier and more satisfied, I have been able to move (sorry if this sounds too tripped out) the center of my consciousness from the ego-centered self in the word-oriented realm of conscious thought in the head to the real center of the self near the solar plexus which has been extremely beneficial to my mental health (quieting the mind and centering oneself), I experience images and symbols in a different way now (Plato's conception of the soul being like a wax seal that is impressed with images or symbols, and if it holds an image for long enough the wax becomes firm) which is a short description for a major change in the way I experience my inner world since I started with this alchemy stuff. Sort of a cop-out, but: a lot of the benefit is difficult to put into words. All-the-while, I might just be crazy, something to keep in mind

>mfw all these poor souls think they are climbing up toward the supernatural but are actually being dissolved into and possessed by sub personal dark forces

Energy work gives you the symptoms of schizophrenia initially. Working with the energy can either balance the energies (I know it sounds like stupid new age bullshit, but they don't make other words for this stuff) or can cause the energies to grow and cause more damage to the psyche (if the practice was done incorrectly (which, in my case, it was definitely done incorrectly (but a lot of other people have much less severe psychosis because they know what they are doing and are expecting psychosis)) Meditation is mostly helpful, but I feel like there might have been times when I was bat-shit loony that being in my head, letting the subconscious play, might have been bad for my sanity, otherwise it has been very helpful.

I have a lot of that too. Very interesting. I almost feel like I rewired my brain while schizo. Have had a few abduction experience dreams. Feel like that's significant but idk. Maybe symbolism of being replaced? Or transfigured?
I was possessed by dark forces before I went crazy. And I was possessed by dark forces while I was crazy. And I am possessed by dark forces now too. I find rosaries and other prayers help. Daily mass too.
Mine was pretty severe. But happened kinda randomly. Maybe different. Caused by psychedelics.

>if the practice was done incorrectly (which, in my case, it was definitely done incorrectly
What exactly did you do incorrectly? I'm asking because I'm also into this stuff. I don't necessarily believe in kundalini/chi/whatever, but I do consider meditation useful, so looking into types of meditation I started doing the "small circulation" thing up my spine and down my torso. One thing I find curious is that it took me a couple of days to start feeling it while the couple books I read about it threatened months or years of training.

>I find rosaries and other prayers help. Daily mass too.
yah sure bro, those things will definitively help against possession

/sarcasm

What would? What is it like not to be possessed?

That guy is needlessly messing with you, user. Don't worry about it.

I want to know more about abduction symbolism. Jung wrote on it and Bill Hicks said the most earth-shattering experience he ever had was an abduction vision while he was meditating (he was with two other friends in the vision and the two friends had the same vision at the same time but the were all in completely different locations, entirely uncoordinated (and I don't think he would be one to make something like that up)).
Unless the light bearer is a dark force, I think there might be a dark farce among us
I've taken my fair share of psychedelics as well.. I haven't crossed that off the list of possible causes.

Modern day conventional christianity cannot help you at all, you need to deal with it directly

t. agent of dark forces

Again, I hate how ridiculous this sounds, but: focusing energy too much on one chakra (or particular place on the path) as opposed to trying to evenly distribute energy, or letting the energy get 'stale after it has been built up, or releasing the energy at the beginning of the process (chi-gong psychosis) but not taking steps to work with/manage/balance/release energy (the issue I had). There are probably other issues that people run into, but these I can personally vouch for

Abduction by aliens might be an update of monitoring by the archons. Or ascent to the godhead. Seemed terrifying which does seem divine but not so much ecstatic. But idk if I necessarily had bad experiences to indicate evil archons. Seemed relatively harmless. Tag and release. I also associated the experience with romance. Love is in some sense cosmic and not merely earthly. I also think aliens might be interested in love (I read a theory once they are interested in sex so maybe that too). Transformation was another theme. Initiation. Rebirth.
>unless the lightbearer is a dark force
Unless? Isn't that the standard assumption?
>dark farce
Play on words or typo?
>deal with it directly
I'm all ears.
>focusing energy too much in one area
I think I was a bit of a hothead. Lol.

Haha word play. Thanks for noticing

to deal with it directly, you need to use a spiritual practice that is based on develping the core self, in opposition to the rest of the world

you could do this with buddhism, some forms of alchemy, magic

Lightbearer: depends if we are beyond good and evil. Might just be a character necessary to the human narrative, a prerequisite for that good times to come. Cool thoughts on abduction, I'll keep them in mind.

Find out your MBTI type

Also, I thought it might be related to death symbolism.
I dabble in magic. I find a lot of it distasteful, however. Alchemy is something I've always been interested but unsure I fully understand. Buddhism feels a bit foreign but I have some westernized tech I've stolen.

>Thomas Cleary's three volumes of Taoist texts
>and Plato

which specifically, of both of these authors?

this thread fascinates me. which works by jung should i read to understand what you guys are talking about?

Psychology and Alchemy would be the place to start. Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious is pretty essential to understanding Jung too. Aion as well if you want a deep cut. Haven't read Red Book (Liber Novus) yet as it is quite expensive and esoteric but I suspect it is probably best after you are familiar with his conventional work.

...

...

...

...

...

...

modern man in search of a soul

Ya. That and Memories, Dream, Reflections and Man and His Symbols are the more "casual" entry works recommended by the man himself.. Guess I shoulda mentioned them in

underrated post

/thread

>sub-personal
You mean like the Id? Shadow work does work with the id, but only in order to understand it. Do not be afraid of the dark and its secrets. Be aware of them and allow them healthy expression and submimation.

>not realizing the personal daimon and holy guardian angel are the same

thanks guys