ITT: Cursed Books

Should i read this or "Better never to have been"?

Pretty sure Better Never to Have Been is less permanently scarring, from what I've read of it

you can always tell how underread someone is in philosophy by how 'scarred' people are by ligotti's shitty ideas

well he deals with it via distraction/attachment but also takes it as self evidently dumb.

It's the opening lines of Inferno, ye.

Hes able to make it more visceral and easily appreciable I think. I quite enjoyed his puppet analogy.

Shitty ideas?? Could it be? Will delving further into philosophy save me? I'll confess that I am not very well read

he's a pro-life meatpuppet regurgitating his biological programming
dont bother
it wont

FUCK

i got bored really quick of ligotti.

My time spent reading this I couldnt help but think about why Thomas Ligotti uses Scatological themes to compare Human existence with such as saying our solar system is something like a sewer or a toilet of the universe and spending about two to three paragraphs on comparing the need to have children is comparable to the desire to shit.

Philosophy is a non-science for weakminded people. If you really want to contribute anything to society and/or mankind just save yourself, and the rest of us, from what will only result in you becoming a pseud.
It's just metaphysics discussing questions we're unable to answer. Focus on some real science instead.

But what makes you say "yes" to life, user? What convinces you that it isn't all more trouble than it's worth? That's what I need.

>What convinces you that it isn't all more trouble than it's worth?

lol you need to pop some adderall or ritalin or something. the desire to engage with life has nothing to do with beliefs, it's your dopamine level.

That in itself is a belief.

No it's objective truth. It has been proven in a clinical setting all choices in life between action and inaction are the result of dopamine levels.

Is he right, anons? It sounds nice. It's all just a matter of chemistry, r-right? Just pop some pills and you'll be good to go. Heh heh, no one in their right mind would consider life to be a disgrace, right? Right?

You know very well yourself, that you are grossly underestimating the different kinds of potential reactions a body might have to high dopamine levels. You think all the screwed up people raping houses and burning women back and forth are riding solely on depression? We'd be a society based in drug consumption by now if that worked as beautifully as you seen to claim.

And with that in mind, philosophy is more than fine before you can actually control this so called simple variable.

Uh, what?

Certainly the difference between action and inaction may correspond to a chemical action in the brain as do our beliefs in what we believe to be true and false about our reality and right and wrong actions. I am not denying that fact. People desiring to engage in life seek out different things according to this level and some to the point where they desire self harm and suicide. Yet I think to say that it is dopamine is insufficient as it enters into question of what qualifies as truth. If we accept that the dopaminergic system dictate our beliefs and actions we are trusting this system to provide us with some sort of fundamental truth about ourselves and our world this is insufficient as people are inclined towards different satisfactions in life and feel that satisfaction to varying degrees. I suspect that it is part of a broader set of beliefs that support our view of self and the world. Hence when that user said:
"But what makes you say "yes" to life, user? What convinces you that it isn't all more trouble than it's worth? That's what I need." They very well agree with what you are saying but have taken that bare fact of neurochemical determinism to different conclusions and assuming he has the book in the OP it is because that book goes through this argument and states there is only a phenomenal self which is nothing but a helpful illusion that there is someone behind this impersonal chemical chain of events. Saying Yes to life requires extracting something out of this merely beyond taking ritalin and what have you, though that may be important to you and yet both you and I are here discussing this because we believe that we each have a sense of self that is, to an extent, believes to be firmly grounded in the world around it and with itself regarding its beliefs. And yet if all this is as we say a chemical reaction the outcome of this discussion and what we come away with is not particularly important beyond merely reifying this illusion of a phenomenal self.

>Cursed Books

This is another good one.

You are literally, objectively, wrong. Period. Not even memeing.

>Le positivism maymay

Daily reminder your mindset is simply a Neurotic Ego-Defense mechanism

...

The funny thing is there's a real answer to this. Ligotti suffers from very bad Irritable Bowel Syndrome, no joke. Shit is probably on his mind frequently.

Is this book actually cursed?

He also grew up in Detroit, hence his focus on burnt out wrecks, junkies, dilapidated buildings and the homeless.

I'd say his anhedonia is one of the reasons for his pandemonic view too. It's pretty interesting, desu.

He does have a point. As animals our brains are hard wired to want to be alive, that much should be obvious. It has a reward system built in so that most people never have to wonder about the point of anything because it's self evident. When you stop feeling the effects of that then you start having thoughts like this. It's not that you're "wrong". It's just you have lost the ability to feel the meaning in things that do have meaning.

The Society of the Spectacle, and Simulacra and Simulation are similarly soul-crushing, but mostly in direct descriptions of society

I love Ligotti's short stories, but TCATHR was poorly written and bullshit. He basically compiles the views of a bunch of pessimistic philosophers while saying, "See! Consciousness is a mistake! Hur hur!" However, there is no overall cogent philosophy of his own making. He oscillates from advocating antinatalism, based on negative consequentialism, to simply implying it doesn't matter in the end, based on moral nihilism. He haphazardly gives quotes from figures ranging from Mainlander to Thomas Metzinger to Zen Buddhists to Schopenhaur to Zapffe (as if their views are in harmony based solely on pessimism). He promotes this retarded idea that people are born either optimists or pessimists when it can be more nuanced and complex than that.

Ligotti's fiction is great. Some of the best in weird fiction, but when he rambles on philosophical topics, he is mainly relying on confirmation bias rather than actually forming a real argument.

TCATHR was trash, and so are his fans on Thomas Ligotti Online. His fiction is great however and worthy of admiration.

Read this:

philosophy.as.uky.edu/sites/default/files/The Absurd - Thomas Nagel.pdf

t. user with an axe to grind but a fair criticism gjge

Can someone share a link for Born To Fear ? I can't find it anywhere.

Pop a bullet in your brain.

Bible

>TCATHR was trash, and so are his fans on Thomas Ligotti Online.
I mean, compared to any classic philosophical work it's like a Buzzfeed article, but "trash" is a bit harsh, IMO. Thomas Ligotti Online is another topic altogether... I only use it as a repository of interviews and rarities, because the attitudes of people there are bizarre as fuck.

The book is basically a collection of interviews which you can find on Matt Cardin's website. I couldn't find a pdf anywhere myself, not even on LibGen, Monoskop or aaaaarg.fail.

>all those words that start with S

Alliterationfag here, you had better believe I came

It's at my local library :)

Most of philosophy is bullshit stop kidding yourself. As for poorly written it reads like it was written by an edgy stemlord.

i remember reading this in high school because a teacher flamed me and said i would like this if i was "gonna be like that :(" i didn't think it was anything too impressive, it kinda seemed like ligotti was just forcing it there for a while

Ironic that your post reads like it was written by an edgy stemlord!

>Philosophy is a non-science for weakminded people.

Says the one who just does whatever the current ideological authorities tell him is legitimate.

Life is a disgrace but there is a solution to the problem. Ligotti ultimately just makes things worse with his whining.

With all the shit he's been through though, I'm not surprised he's skewed toward pessimism.

Yeah really, he just can't catch a break

ligotti.net/showthread.php?t=8726

What's the solution gimme the solution I need a solution

>there is a solution to the problem

You have one??

read bataille

>Life is a disgrace but there is a solution to the problem.
you mean kys?

You're happy doing stuff right? So do that stuff. What does it matter that things are an accident and that there's no God or "meaning" when you're actively able to have fun doing things? There's still more reason to just live than die, "delusions" or not. Death doesn't solve anything because you cease to exist. Solutions to the problems of a living individual can only happen while the individual is still alive. The concept of relief can only happen if you're still alive to feel it. So things are inherently pointless. So what? Would you rather just die and stop feeling anything at all? You shouldn't just mope around in despair when you know that you can still find enjoyment in things. For people like Ligotti who constantly deal with mental health issues, such a thing is much more difficult.

jesus, poor cunt

>You're happy doing stuff right? So do that stuff.
jesus what a dumb normie assumption

>just have fun breh lmao

Did you bother reading the rest of the post? I will comfortably assume that you have something in your life that you enjoy doing. Would you rather be miserable forever by continuing to focus on the meaninglessness of things and eventually kill yourself and totally deprive yourself of the ability to ever enjoy anything ever again, or live a life where you can be happy doing things? You don't have a choice to be born in another universe where things are perfect. You are born as a human with chemical reactions and electrical impulses. What more do you want? To imagine an alternative or actually live in a way that's beneficial to your nature? You can do what you can to find relief in life. If you're afflicted by terminal illness or constant mental strife, things are different depending on your situation, but we're talking in general here.

>I will comfortably assume that you have something in your life that you enjoy doing

i agree that anyone who isn't going to kill himself obviously benefits by making the best of it, but calling that a solution to suffering is overselling your meagre therapy of distraction tbqh senpai

I'm going to call bullshit unless you're Ligotti himself or are bedridden with cancer and in pain constantly.

Then what's your alternative solution? I'm not talking about a solution to being tied up and tortured on the daily, but there is "purpose" in a meaningless existence, even if it is just making yourself feel good. That's literally all there is. You can still be happy knowing there's nothing, even if there's a degree of "delusion" in choosing to ignore the deepest level of emptiness for a time. You can discover pointlessness as an ultimate truth, but you're not a mindless robot, you can enjoy things, and you know you can enjoy things and have enjoyed things. You don't have to stay put on that conclusion because there are truly things that you can do and have done to make your life meaningful to you.

is that man carrying a dick

Slol si sdidn't seven snotice sthat

i don't consider meaninglessness a problem, i consider suffering a problem, which isn't solved by just having fun.

other than death i think some form of asceticism is the best way to minimise suffering.

>man carrying a dick
aren't we all?

>it kinda seemed like ligotti was just forcing it there for a while
He partially was, because it's framed as much as a horror novel as it is something philosophical. Things are exaggerated for effect, or to produce a certain feeling.

Whoa...

It's normal to think your living your life because of a chemical Neuro-ego defensive mechanical. But that's not enough to live for imo

>existence is wrongly forced upon us
>life is an unfair piece of shit
>you don't have to feel wrong for being a failure
>you dont have to feel embarassed for doing something dumb
>it's all justified because your parents fucked you over for bringing you over here
why tf would you want to reverse this. live life as you please, dont reproduce, dont harm others, become vegan, and thats that!

I guess for me it's more the whole

>anhedonia exists and can strip everything you love away from you
>everything you love is betraying you, because your love for it causes you pain
>next to being dead, it would be better to just be an ego-dead nobody who does nothing
>it is foolish to not strive for the A S C E T I C way of life, though it is incredibly difficult to do though
>although then again, maybe asceticism is a fool's game too (see U.G. krishnamurti)

You enjoy shitposting and you know it.

Dunno about that far. Ligotti quite clearly states in his book that he rejects Schopenhauer for not going far enough, that Buddhism and Metzinger rely on belief to explain their pessimism and that only Zappfe truly matches his views.

Also, when he is talking about optimists and pessimists, he's saying that many people will just outright ignore/dismiss pessimism with comments like "well if life is so bad, whyndont you kill yourself?" They don't want to engage.

Finally, it is not a book about HIS philosophy, it is Ligotti talking about pessimistic philoso0hy as a whole while he also includes horror elements in the book itself.

This is the distraction/sublimation of Zapffe's four methods of the human filter mechanism.

Also
>relief
Kek. How and what is gonna give you relief, huh senpai?

>muh life is meaningless
>so scary
>why must we exist
>mum pls hug me
>but wait even mum will die
Cringe

...

>"well if life is so bad, whyndont you kill yourself?"
This is such a fucking cop out and one of the reasons why I never talk about AN or pessimism in public. It's the life-affirming equivalent of "just b urself".

maybe AN is so retarded that it can be easily refuted by a meme-phrase.
>LIFE IS SHIT DONT HAVE KIDS THEIR LIVES WILL BE SHIT THEY'D BE BETTER OFF NOT EXISTING
>BUT NOT ME LOL I HAVE TOO MUCH TO LIVE FORE I DONT WANT TO DIIIE MOMMYYYY

kys

It's a legitimate stance born out of negative utilitarianism. At least Benatar, Zapfe, Crawford and others provide arguments, while all you do is spout memes.

Saying life sucks and that it shouldn't exist is NOT instantly an argument made in favor of death, at least not the process of death as you know it. This is reductionism at its worst.

>non-existent agents aren't deprived of anything by virtue of non-existence
>to bring them into a world where they will inevitably experience suffering (despite the potential for joy) is then irrational because they aren't being deprived of joy in the first place (because they don't exit)
>this means you should kill yourself
>?????
Real gets the noggin' joggin'.

Survival instinct is activated once you exist, life is a trap.

why would you read a book that makes you less happy?

where do i start with ligotti?

I don't know. I don't know why I do a lot of things.

Don't.

Sometimes it's more fun to go out of your comfort zone and dive into the most nightmarish abyss you can find just to know that it's there for a while.

i feel like it's cathartic to read something so bleak, can't really explain why.

that is fucking hilarious